Meeting of 2006-10-19
*** Time shown in EDT
16:00 < mmcgrath> We ready to have a meeting?
16:01 < iWolf> mmcgrath: I am here.
16:02 < mmcgrath> Role call: Who's here?
16:02 * lmacken
16:02 < mikec> I'm on
16:02 * jwatson is here
16:02 < lyz> on but away for a min
16:04 < mmcgrath> Welp, the way these things usually go is we follow the Schedule listed on http://fedoraproject
16:04 < mmcgrath> Its not a hard and fast rule, but its good to have in front of you while we do the meetings.
16:06 < mmcgrath> So the first item is the unifying look and feel for admin.fedoraproject.org.
16:06 < mmcgrath> Its still unclaimed so if any of the new people want it, just put your name as the 'project' lead.
16:07 < mmcgrath> next item is the Package Database.
16:07 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: anything to add? Whats going on with that?
16:07 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: its comminag along I havent done much yet but the other guys have
16:08 < mmcgrath> k.
16:08 < mmcgrath> we'll skip VCS for the moment.
16:08 < dgilmore> :)
16:08 < mmcgrath> iWolf: systems upgrades: anything to report?
16:09 < dgilmore> iWolf: i put a fc6 xen guest in for db2
16:09 < iWolf> I have a list of what is using what DB and which config files changed, tested restores on one ofthe earlier xen guests.
16:09 < iWolf> All that went smoothly.
16:09 < dgilmore> RHEL4 just did not want to behave for me
16:09 < iWolf> Waiting on word if new hardware pans out.
16:09 < iWolf> dgilmore: Even the reboot of xen2 didn't help, eh?
16:10 < abompard> hey there
16:10 < mmcgrath> we should know for sure within a week or so. I should get shipping information by then.
16:10 < mmcgrath> abompard: yo
16:10 < dgilmore> iWolf: no it didint
16:10 < iWolf> mmcgrath: sounds great.
16:10 < mmcgrath> lmacken: around?
16:10 < iWolf> dgilmore: hhmmm
16:10 < lmacken> yup yup
16:10 < lmacken> firewalls
16:10 < lmacken> app1 is now running the pyroman configuration, although as far as I could tell the only traffic app1 was getting was from the load balancer every second or so.
16:10 < mmcgrath> Whats the word on the firwalls?
16:11 < dgilmore> lmacken: did you ever look at the builders?
16:11 < lmacken> shouldn't all of the traffic going to the app servers be from the proxies ?
16:11 < mmcgrath> yeah, iWolf is going to do a brief audit tonight to find out what state everything is in.
16:11 < lmacken> dgilmore: not yet, definitely this weekend
16:11 < lmacken> awesome
16:11 < mmcgrath> It could be that all the proxy servers are accidently pointing to one app server.
16:11 < lmacken> most of our machines don't need to be running cups and sendmail :(
16:11 < iWolf> Yep, still planning on poking around on that tonight.
16:11 < iWolf> Plans to help fix that too!
16:11 < mmcgrath> no they don't.
16:12 < mmcgrath> we'll discuss that more on the ilst.
16:12 < lmacken> k
16:12 < mmcgrath> Documentation: I've added some stuff to the wiki as far as the getting started page and the Officers stuff.
16:12 * mmcgrath notes some officers are still mostly blank ;-)
16:12 < mmcgrath> For the new people, what did you think of the getting started page, what is it missing if anything?
16:13 * dgilmore is guilty
16:13 < jwatson> I found it easy to follow
16:13 < jwatson> The only problem I ran into was getting Wiki Edit access.
16:14 < mmcgrath> Yeah, that parts kind of a crap shoot. Typically you have to know someone, or be known on the lists to get access.
16:14 < mikec> it was pretty easy to use
16:14 < mmcgrath> Though, come to think of it, wiki edit access isn't totally a prerequisite to getting involved with FI.
16:15 < mmcgrath> but it does help.
16:15 < jwatson> I posted a couple of times in #fedora-websites, but nobody answered. :) I didn't try adding myself to the queue page.
16:15 < mmcgrath> jwatson: send an email to the list, we'll get you set up.
16:15 < mmcgrath> The next item is Xen: I think we can move that to done.
16:15 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: whats the word on the legacy buildsys?
16:16 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: we need something to build and make sure it is working
16:16 < jwatson> Yeah, I think Wiki Edit access could be one of those things that you get access to when you need it. Maybe not necessary in the Getting Started list.
16:16 < dgilmore> push scipts need to be setup also
16:16 < mmcgrath> if I requested a build right now, what would happen?
16:16 < dgilmore> it should build
16:16 * mmcgrath goes to request a build
16:18 < jwatson> Can someone give a short description of the legacy build sys? Does it build Extras from cvs?
16:18 < mmcgrath> jwatson: actually the legacy buildsys is to build packages for Fedora-Legacy.
16:19 < mmcgrath> just as the extras buildsys builds packages for extras.
16:19 < mmcgrath> they're actually the same buildsys :)
16:19 < mmcgrath> ok, I'll keep you guys informed about that.
16:20 < lmacken> hmm, it might be nice to have a WikiEdit group in the account system
16:21 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: something's farked in the makefile I think - Server returned an error: This build server is set up for building CVS checkouts only.
16:21 < mmcgrath> we'll get back to that.
16:21 < mmcgrath> One of the big things I wanted to discuss is some priorities on our projects.
16:21 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: yeah you need to use a cvs tag to build
16:21 < mmcgrath> We've got a deadline for a couple of things thats quickly approaching.
16:21 < dgilmore> you cant build SRPMS
16:21 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: that came from a "make plague" :)
16:22 < dgilmore> hmm then we need to fix legacy's Makefiles
16:22 < mmcgrath> yeah
16:22 < mmcgrath> Ok, so we've got the VCS to choose
16:22 < mmcgrath> The Accounting System to get under way
16:23 < mmcgrath> and the package database.
16:23 < dgilmore> how are the test VCS's comming along?
16:23 < mmcgrath> I see these as our 3 biggest areas, anyone have anything to add to that list?
16:23 < abadger1999> I need to free up time.
16:23 < abadger1999> Although one of the new people pinged me yesterday with some interest in that.
16:24 < mmcgrath> we need to start getting the developers involved. It'll probably be them that picks it.
16:24 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: id agree they are our biggest things
16:24 < dgilmore> and they are big
16:24 < mmcgrath> We've got SVN up, they all know how CVS works.
16:24 < mmcgrath> we're looking at mercurial and possibly git?
16:24 < dgilmore> bazzar?
16:24 < mmcgrath> and bazzar
16:24 * mmcgrath goes to look at the page
16:24 < abadger1999> Yeah. Bazaar is furthest along.
16:24 < abadger1999> No one's taken git.
16:25 < abadger1999> There's plenty of inhouse (inside RH) knowledge of mercurial but everyone's busy.
16:25 < mmcgrath> For the new guys: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/VersionControl/ArchitectureDraft
16:25 < abadger1999> Err... svn might be further than bzr as mmcgrath set it up :-)
16:25 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: we might want to tap warren and maybe skvidal
16:25 < mmcgrath> yeah, svn's up and ready :)
16:26 * dgilmore hasnt done git before but i guess no time better to learn that the present
16:26 < abompard> dudes, I'm sorry but I gotta run. No news from me on the Accounting System, I just didn't find the time lately. Sorry, I'll try to free some
16:26 < lyz> abompard catch ya later
16:26 < mmcgrath> abompard: no problem. See you around.
16:26 < abadger1999> Accounting sys -- do you guys want new helpers?
16:26 < lyz> in a bit yes
16:26 < mmcgrath> we've got lots of new people that could aid in that.
16:26 < lyz> the web site will have to be modified to use LDAP
16:27 < mmcgrath> LOTS of stuff will have to be modified to use LDAP :)
16:27 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: :-)
16:27 < lyz> I've got a xen instance now
16:27 < mmcgrath> lmacken: real quick, can you give some info as to what the "update system" is?
16:27 < lyz> going to work on that today
16:28 < lmacken> the Fedora Update System is the tool used to push core updates
16:28 < lmacken> I'm working on porting it over to TurboGears and allowing it to encompass core/extras/legacy
16:28 < dgilmore> lmacken: that would be very cool
16:29 < mmcgrath> is that something we'd want ready by FC7?
16:29 < lmacken> yeah. I will probably dump my svn repo into our svn repo soon
16:29 < mmcgrath> cool, Ok. So I'll add that to the top priority list.
16:29 < lmacken> sounds good
16:30 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: what are your thoughts on the packaging database?
16:30 < mmcgrath> ready for FC7?
16:30 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i would really hope so
16:30 < mmcgrath> ok, so. We've got 6 months to put out 4 pretty major projects.
16:30 < abadger1999> We should be able to get some form of package DB out before FC7
16:30 < mmcgrath> starting... like a week ago.
16:31 < dgilmore> though we added a few thinks like a way to generate the comps file from it
16:31 < abadger1999> dgilmore: I was already planning on that as a feature :-)
16:31 < mmcgrath> I don't want to push the accounting system to force it out by FC7 if its not ready, that one could wait until after since we already have a working account system.
16:31 < dgilmore> abadger1999: :)
16:31 < mmcgrath> but the other three I'd like to put a solid deadline on.
16:31 < abadger1999> dgilmore: Although I put it in as a "possibly do it later"
16:31 < mmcgrath> officers, sound good?
16:32 < abadger1999> Sounds good.
16:32 < iWolf> Sounds good to me.
16:32 < mmcgrath> We'll have to hit the devs hard after FC6 gets out the door.
16:32 < mmcgrath> to help test and all that.
16:33 < lmacken> mmcgrath: sounds good
16:33 < mmcgrath> Ok, so with that done. I'll open the floor.
16:34 < mmcgrath> who's got what?
16:34 < dgilmore> im going to sit down and do some coding on plague soon anyone have anything they want added
16:34 < mmcgrath> can you make it bake cookies?
16:36 < lyz> mmmm cookies
16:36 < mmcgrath> Anyone else have anything?
16:37 < lmacken> yeah
16:37 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: no cookies for you
16:37 < lmacken> I added the mirror management frontend to the wishlist.
16:37 < lmacken> I put some basic requirements on the wiki a while back
16:37 < lmacken> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/MirrorManagement
16:37 < lmacken> some of which is now being done by seth's check-mirrors code.
16:37 < lmacken> having a web tool to monitor the health of our mirrors would be nice
16:38 < lmacken> any takers?
16:38 < lmacken> if not we can do it onlist
16:38 < mmcgrath> kind of like: http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?repo=rawhide&arch=i386&stats=1
16:38 < mmcgrath> I've been modifying that code heavily since it went out. its kind of on a freeze right now until FC6 is out.
16:39 < lmacken> yeah, that's definitely a start
16:39 < lyz> would nagios work?
16:39 < jwatson> What about mrtg or cricket?
16:39 < mmcgrath> nagios could do some of it. Its got a fully functional database back end.
16:39 < f13> mmcgrath: ping?
16:39 < f13> mmcgrath: whats up with bash?
16:39 < mmcgrath> f13: pong.
16:39 < mmcgrath> we were testing the legacy buildsystem. Just a release bump.
16:39 < lmacken> mmcgrath: we also want the mirror admins to be able to self service their mirrors and whatnot
16:40 < mmcgrath> It failed though so I'll have to find out what happened.
16:40 < f13> mmcgrath: the diff was huge
16:40 < mmcgrath> huh? shouldn't have been.
16:40 < mmcgrath> link?
16:41 < f13> I don't know if it's on viewcvs, but you added something like 15 changelog entries
16:41 < mmcgrath> I must not be on that list. Forward it to me, I'll take a look.
16:41 < mmcgrath> lmacken: nod, maybe one of our new devs would like to assist on it.
16:42 < mmcgrath> f13: OOOHHH, I know what happened... my bad.
16:42 < mmcgrath> I copied the FC-4 bash.spec to the FC-3 tree. I'll fix it.
16:42 < f13> haha, ok.
16:43 < abadger1999> it would be nice to start breaking subtasks out of all the development items so we can have things we parcel out to new devs.
16:43 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: do you want to start taking some of that over?
16:43 < abadger1999> Yeah.
16:43 < mmcgrath> :: whew :: :P
16:43 < abadger1999> I've started working on it for the packageDB.
16:43 < abadger1999> I can do some of that for VCS as well.
16:44 < mmcgrath> I'll send a cattle call out to the list to see if anyone has previous GIT experience. If not
dgilmore and I will just have to sit down and learn it ;-)
16:44 < abadger1999> Acct Sys and Update Sys I'd like feedback from you guys about what tasks you think would go well for a new user.
16:44 < jwatson> What language or methodology do we write things like the Mirror Manager in? Are we standardizing on TurboGears? Or is it whatever gets the job done?
16:45 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: There's also things like writing testing scripts to see how far the various VCS's scale.
16:45 < lmacken> I think TurboGears can really help speed up our development process too. All we need at firstis an svn repo; turbogears can be run locally without a production envorinment.
16:45 < abadger1999> and importers to get data from CVS quickly when the time comes.
16:45 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: just chatting with jeremy we are going to branch extras monday
16:45 < abadger1999> and porting the Makefile.common to the new VCS's.
16:45 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: yeah. The CVS change is really a big project. And it will require testing from extras and devel.
16:45 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: excellent.
16:46 < abadger1999> lmacken: svn repo for TG?
16:46 < lmacken> abadger1999: no, for each project
16:47 < mmcgrath> for now I'd think the tg stuff should go in the fedora cvs.
16:47 < abadger1999> lmacken: Just for general management of the code? Like the current cvs stuff?
16:48 < lmacken> abadger1999: yes, you can run local development instances outside of the production code
16:48 < lmacken> great for testing
16:48 < mmcgrath> lmacken: you mean turbogears has some sort of built-in svn integration?
16:48 < lmacken> mmcgrath: no, no. i was just saying that all it needs is a repo.
16:48 < mmcgrath> got'cha ;-P
16:49 < mmcgrath> ok, so we'll get started on that. In the meantime we all need to pick our favorite SVN repo as well.
16:49 < mmcgrath> err not SVN repo. VCS system.
16:49 < abadger1999> lmacken: k. So like fedora cvs but in svn rather than cvs.
16:49 < mmcgrath> Whatever gets chosen will need to be supported immediately, I'd hate for them to pick GIT andhave no one be familiar with it.
16:49 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: Bazaar :-)
16:49 * mmcgrath shutters
16:50 < jwatson> I'm familiar with svn. Could learn git too.
16:50 < mmcgrath> email sent.
16:51 < mmcgrath> We can discuss the rest of this on the list.
16:51 < abadger1999> Bazaar was a natural progression from svn for me. The commands feel more natural than merc
urial or git (from my svn background).
16:51 < mmcgrath> Gotta keep short meeting times :D
16:51 < mmcgrath> I've never used bazaar in my life.
16:51 < abadger1999> ha ha.
16:51 < mmcgrath> I've been to one before.
16:51 < lmacken> ditto
16:51 < lmacken> (wrt using it)
16:52 < mmcgrath> Ok, so does anyone have anything else before I close the meeting?
16:52 < abadger1999> What about repos for our rpms?
16:52 < dgilmore> not I
16:52 < mmcgrath> Ohhh yeah.
16:52 < mmcgrath> thanks DGILMORE ;-)
16:52 * dgilmore nearly forgot that
16:52 * abadger1999 prods mmcgrath
16:52 * iWolf forgot too
16:53 < mmcgrath> Ok, so I'm going to create a yum repo on fpserv that will get replicated to our app servers.
16:53 < mmcgrath> The plan right now is to follow the same format/name space as the fedora repos.
16:53 < mmcgrath> They will be yumable as well.
16:53 < mmcgrath> I'll send the final info to the list about exactly where the master is. I'll copy all the RPMS in our CVS db to it.
16:53 < mmcgrath> sound good?
16:54 < iWolf> mmcgrath: sounds good to me.
16:54 < dgilmore> yep sounds good to me
16:54 < dgilmore> we have yum on the RHEL sevrers?
16:54 < abadger1999> sounds good.
16:55 < abadger1999> At FESCo someone asked if we're using the vanilla FC3 build of rpms or our own rebuild.
16:55 < mmcgrath> not yet but we will
16:55 < mmcgrath> and RHEL5 uses yum by default.
16:55 < abadger1999> If it was a rebuild, why not just put the support in the devel branch instead of an FC3.
16:56 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: I've just been using the extras buildsys.
16:56 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: k. So we are using the FC3 built rpm for now?
16:56 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: yeah.
16:57 < mmcgrath> Sometimes I use karan's repo.
16:57 < mmcgrath> FC3 != RHEL4 but they're pretty damn close.
16:57 < mmcgrath> Ok, one more time. Does anyone have anything else :)
16:58 * dgilmore shuts up this time
16:59 < mmcgrath> alllrighty. Then I'll call meeting end in 30
16:59 < mmcgrath> 15
16:59 < mmcgrath> 10
16:59 < mmcgrath> 5
16:59 < mmcgrath> 4
16:59 < mmcgrath> 3
16:59 < mmcgrath> 1.5
16:59 < mmcgrath> 1
16:59 < mmcgrath> ------- END ---------------