| quaid
| <meeting id="Docs team">
| 14:01
|
| * quaid still hoping for zodbot meeting logging :)
| 14:01
|
| Sparks
| +1
| 14:02
|
| quaid
| le roll call?
| 14:02
|
| * Sparks is present
| 14:02
|
| -!- John5342 [n=john5342 fedora/John5342] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 14:02
|
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :
| 14:03
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_14_January_2008
|
| FUDCon results
|
| quaid
| I'm here too
| 14:03
|
| * quaid makes a sound of crickets chirping
| 14:03
|
| quaid
| ok then
| 14:04
|
| Sparks
| Where is everyone?
| 14:04
|
| quaid
| refering to
| 14:04
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11
|
| quaid
| dunno
| 14:05
|
| -!- fozzmoo [n=fozz 209 41 95 5] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 14:05
|
| * laubersm here
| 14:06
|
| quaid
| since I just did the 'hit their nick thing' we can wait a
| 14:06
|
| moment
|
| * quaid forgets how useful that is
| 14:06
|
| -!- jsmith
| 14:06
|
| [n=njsmith asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| quaid
| I regularly get saved in to a meeting because some kind
| 14:06
|
| soul hit my nick to remind me it was time :)
|
| * ke4qqq is here
| 14:06
|
| * jsmith stumbles in, but is on two phone calls at the moment,
| 14:06
|
| and won't be much use in the meeting
|
| Sparks
| jsmith: That's a neat trick
| 14:06
|
| -!- sdziallas_ [n=sebastia p57A2D2F2 dip t-dialin net] has joined
| 14:07
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| fozzmoo
| heh heh. The Asterisk guy is on 2 phone calls. har har.
| 14:07
|
| quaid
| heh
| 14:07
|
| quaid
| he needs an Asterisk Turing plugin
| 14:07
|
| jsmith
| fozzmoo: It would be funnier if it weren't true :-(
| 14:07
|
| quaid
| refering to
| 14:07
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11
|
| quaid
| from a hackfest point of view, results were mixed
| 14:08
|
| * dbewley partially here
| 14:08
|
| quaid
| * we didn't get the beats renamed
| 14:08
|
| quaid
| * I should have known Paul wouldn't be available since he
| 14:08
|
| was /running the conference/ and I didn't do too much on process by myself
|
| quaid
| * we still need pages renamed, but could have tho' didn't
| 14:08
|
| categorize the pages
|
| quaid
| * jsmith was looking a bit on moving the needle on the IG
| 14:09
|
| conversion/how to convert to Publican stuff
|
| quaid
| * we taught about the wiki
| 14:09
|
| quaid
| * docbook was taught, yay
| 14:09
|
| -!- warren [n=warren redhat/wombat/warren] has quit ["Leaving"]
| 14:09
|
| quaid
| * probably a dozen people were positively influenced
| 14:09
|
| about the wiki, but we wanted the whole room to bow to our methods
|
| quaid
| that's all I had
| 14:10
|
| ke4qqq
| do we have owners for the various groups of pages?
| 14:10
|
| jsmith
| quaid: FWIW, stickster and I took a stab at the Publican
| 14:10
|
| stuff, but ran into problems with stickster's XSL transform
|
| stickster
| jsmith: I think I knocked most of those out
| 14:11
|
| stickster
| The newest tarball should hopefully work better
| 14:11
|
| laubersm
| I got nudged into taking lead on Packaging docs
| 14:11
|
| jsmith
| stickster: Cool... I'll give it a shot when I get a free
| 14:11
|
| minute
|
| < stickster>
| 14:11
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_convert_to_from_fedora-docs-util_to_Publican
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: we have owners or people working on all BUT the
| 14:12
|
| release notes
|
| quaid
| laubersm++
| 14:12
|
| ke4qqq
| wow laubersm!!!!
| 14:12
|
| -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-busy
| 14:13
|
| quaid
| yeah, I think the Packaging Guide is a great fit --
| 14:13
|
| laubersm has the skills to learn it on the job :), and it's probably the
|
| most impactful
|
| thing we can be working on, in terms of making Fedorans'
|
| lives better.
|
| jsmith-busy
| Amen!
| 14:13
|
| laubersm
| I don't think the renaming and adding catagories will
| 14:13
|
| be hard... then we;ll go from there
|
| * quaid expects others will pitch in esp. as they see momentum
| 14:13
|
| quaid
| laubersm: go ahead and talk too much about it on
| 14:14
|
| fedora-docs-list; ask lots of questions on fedora-wiki lists fp org; etc.
|
| laubersm
| will do
| 14:14
|
| ke4qqq
| yeah I finished all of the Ambassador renaming during
| 14:15
|
| fudcon - I'd guess maybe an hour per 100 pages if you know the content.
|
| Sparks
| +1
| 14:15
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: sweet, yeah, I saw the PSV file
| 14:16
|
| quaid
| g / G_work is probably still asleep ...
| 14:16
|
| quaid
| we maybe need to enable ianweller to use wikibot more or
| 14:17
|
| something.
|
| quaid
| I'd like to see us push those naming changes through asap.
| 14:17
|
| -!- fab [n=bellet bellet info] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 14:17
|
| Sparks
| quaid: How long does it take wikibot to do all the work?
| 14:18
|
| quaid
| dunno, it should be pretty fast
| 14:18
|
| quaid
| it's making changes in the database perhaps?
| 14:18
|
| quaid
| yeah, I think so; it's not scraping and inputing via the
| 14:18
|
| usual web interface.
|
| Sparks
| heck, give him the keys and let him go nuts
| 14:18
|
| quaid
| +1
| 14:19
|
| quaid
| so, we'll update the main task list from the fudcon
| 14:19
|
| did/didn't list when we get there
|
| Sparks
| Can we create a new position? Like Wiki Czar?
| 14:19
|
| ke4qqq
| Sparks: isn't that ian?
| 14:19
|
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :
| 14:19
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11 ::
|
| CMS planz
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: My point exactly. :)
| 14:19
|
| quaid
| Sparks: basically, yes, I think we did that a while ago
| 14:19
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Cool
| 14:20
|
| quaid
| a few months, not sure if it was Czar, but I like that
| 14:20
|
| quaid
| hope it wouldn't get any any czarists angry :)
| 14:20
|
| quaid
| so, did everyone read my email on CMS to f-docs-l?
| 14:20
|
| -!- MrTom [n=mrtom fedora/MrTom] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 14:20
|
| Sparks
| I did.
| 14:21
|
| laubersm
| I did
| 14:21
|
| * jsmith-busy read it, threw his hands in the air, and did
| 14:21
|
| nothing else
|
| ke4qqq
| yes, and I am curious as to what response you have had.
| 14:21
|
| quaid
| laubersm: cheat, you proofread it for me before I sent it!
| 14:21
|
| * laubersm laughs
| 14:21
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: I haven't looked outside of the list yet, but
| 14:21
|
| p'raps it's time to send to the other lists
|
| -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia p57A2E232 dip t-dialin net] has quit
| 14:21
|
| [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
|
| * ke4qqq thought you already sent it to -devel
| 14:22
|
| quaid
| nothing from the wider community; Max and Greg thought it
| 14:22
|
| was a good plan.
|
| -!- sdziallas_ is now known as sdziallas
| 14:22
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: oops, not yet
| 14:22
|
| quaid
| why stall? not sure ...
| 14:22
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Is there a wiki page for the CMS discussion?
| 14:22
|
| quaid
| Sparks: yeah ...
| 14:22
|
| < quaid>
| 14:22
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites
|
| * ke4qqq thinks we should send it to -devel and -art and maybe
| 14:22
|
| even just the fedora list
|
| laubersm
| quaid: send it out
| 14:23
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: +1 ... hadn't thought about art though
| 14:23
|
| quaid
| definitely -list and -devel-list
| 14:23
|
| -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia p57A2D2F2 dip t-dialin net] has quit
| 14:25
|
| ["Ex-Chat"]
|
| Sparks
| quaid: We should build profiles on each option that has
| 14:25
|
| been proposed and show pros and cons.
|
| -!- John5342 [n=john5342 fedora/John5342] has quit [Remote closed
| 14:25
|
| the connection]
|
| quaid
| Sparks: ah, see ...
| 14:26
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Maybe we can narrow the list down based on
| 14:26
|
| specific things we have to have or can't live with.
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Plus the ability of someone to maintain it upstream.
| 14:26
|
| -!- iarlyy [n=iarly mail libertynet com br] has left
| 14:26
|
| #fedora-meeting []
|
| ke4qqq
| the problem we identified at FUDcon is that virtually
| 14:26
|
| all of the options meet most if not all of the needs.
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: That's the kind of problem I like!
| 14:26
|
| quaid
| right, and the process of going beyond marketing materials
| 14:26
|
| quaid
| is a huge vetting operation.
| 14:26
|
| quaid
| Sparks: except then nothing stands out as a clear winner
| 14:27
|
| Sparks
| quaid: True
| 14:27
|
| ke4qqq
| and really, we are looking for owners.
| 14:27
|
| quaid
| we also have the problem that anything we bring to
| 14:27
|
| Infrastructure is going to be new to them; they are already well taxed
|
| with other
|
| complexity, etc.
|
| -!- red_alert [n=ill fedora/redalert] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 14:27
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: +1
| 14:27
|
| Sparks
| So we would need a buy in from them as well.
| 14:28
|
| Sparks
| We don't want something that is going to add so much
| 14:28
|
| work, etc.
|
| quaid
| Sparks: that was the brainwave at FUDCon -- we aren't
| 14:28
|
| looking for a CMS as much as owners for a CMS, who are preferably
|
| passionate about it
|
| otherwise.
|
| quaid
| e.g. note Basil's response on list
| 14:28
|
| ke4qqq
| Sparks: Mike & Co. seem pretty open to just about
| 14:28
|
| anything within reason.
|
| jsmith-busy
| quaid: I talked to mmcgrath about that, and he
| 14:28
|
| didn't seem *that* concerned about bringing in a new CMS
|
| Sparks
| Have we drawn a line in the sand to say "no more" than
| 14:29
|
| the seven on the list now?
|
| quaid
| jsmith-busy: I know, but then I talked with Toshio ...
| 14:29
|
| ke4qqq
| jsmith-busy: but on Sunday he did point out that the
| 14:29
|
| wiki migration was really successful because it had an owner (Ian)
|
| quaid
| right, and the wiki is the reference model
| 14:30
|
| quaid
| when we announced that we were going to move to a
| 14:30
|
| specific wiki solution, the person passionate about it showed up.
|
| jsmith-busy
| Sparks: No, it may be premature to draw that line
| 14:30
|
| (as much as I hate to admit it)
|
| -!- danielsmw
| 14:30
|
| [n=danielsm 130-127-20-68 mauldin resnet clemson edu] has joined
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| Sparks
| jsmith-busy: Well, that's a problem in itself.
| 14:30
|
| quaid
| and if we just said "Drupal" that would probably happen,
| 14:30
|
| but then we had the thought ... why not just approach this through the
|
| passion/interest as a primary scope item.
|
| Sparks
| jsmith-busy: As you already know
| 14:30
|
| * danielsmw waves hello
| 14:30
|
| quaid
| hey danielsmw
| 14:31
|
| * jsmith-busy has to run
| 14:31
|
| -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr p4FDD172B dip0 t-ipconnect de] has joined
| 14:31
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| -!- jsmith-busy is now known as jsmith-away
| 14:31
|
| quaid
| we are catching up on CMS; ref. email sent to f-docs-l
| 14:31
|
| danielsmw
| k
| 14:31
|
| < quaid>
| 14:32
|
| http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-January/msg00077.html
|
| for the IRC records :)
|
| -!- harveybetty [n=harvey firewall eccnet com] has joined
| 14:33
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| quaid
| Sparks: one thing I appreciated about Basil's email was
| 14:33
|
| that he narrowed it to "PHP-based" but was willing to consider outside
|
| of his
|
| expertise; that leaves room for e.g. Joomla experts to
|
| show up and he can join that team.
|
| quaid
| hey harveybetty
| 14:33
|
| ke4qqq
| right, but the MW decision was pushed based on the
| 14:33
|
| technical need.
|
| quaid
| we are catching up on CMS; ref. email sent to f-docs-l
| 14:33
|
| harveybetty
| Hi there - I was in the wrong channel
| 14:33
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: right, and we have no clear cms winner as we did
| 14:33
|
| for wiki
|
| quaid
| plus that was some months of work on mmcgrath's part; he
| 14:33
|
| vetted the solutions, ran scripts, etc.
|
| quaid
| the part of this that we could do but haven't nor really
| 14:33
|
| want to :)
|
| quaid
| harveybetty: yeah, we got our meeting time secured; the
| 14:34
|
| other group moved to a different day
|
| harveybetty
| Is there a list of CMS's that are being considered?
| 14:34
|
| danielsmw
| harveybetty: this was the original page on the topic
| 14:35
|
| that lists some on the bottom:
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites#Background
|
| danielsmw
| although i don't know what's been discussed here
| 14:35
|
| quaid
| we are talkinga bout
| 14:35
|
| quaid
| the idea of having a team self-identify as being willing
| 14:36
|
| quaid
| to deploy and maintain
| 14:36
|
| quaid
| and they choose their own solution
| 14:36
|
| danielsmw
| ooh.
| 14:36
|
| quaid
| i.e., email to fedora-list gets some Drupal people interested
| 14:36
|
| quaid
| so it's Drupal, they run it, and we work with them.
| 14:36
|
| quaid
| otherwise we are in a deep rabbit hole looking at 100+
| 14:37
|
| solutions that nearly all fit our needs, without any technical
|
| contributors to fix the
|
| gaps, and still nothing deployed with no one to deploy it :)
|
| harveybetty
| Drupal is a nice solution. There is an XML module
| 14:38
|
| that fits nicely. I have run into a problem when trying to install
|
| faceted search
|
| because the search doesn't understand XML and
|
| causes errors. I am investigating integrating SOLR as the search engine.
|
| quaid
| ok, so I'm sending email to f-devel-l and fedora-list and
| 14:38
|
| fedora-art-list
|
| quaid
| harveybetty: honestly, considering how many Drupalheads I
| 14:39
|
| know of, I'd bet that one has a clear run for the lead; if you are
|
| interested in
|
| being part of a team that deploys/maintains, that is even
|
| better :)
|
| quaid
| we haven't heard of any DocBook module other than that one
| 14:39
|
| * quaid ready to move on to the next agenda item
| 14:39
|
| quaid
| anything more here?
| 14:39
|
| ke4qqq
| nothing - but I'd like to ask a bunch of questions of
| 14:40
|
| harveybetty at some point regarding drupal
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: Maybe we should have a separate session after
| 14:40
|
| the meeting
|
| harveybetty
| Be glad too. It is a generic XML module and you
| 14:40
|
| can plug Docbook in.
|
| * danielsmw agrees
| 14:40
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: I have questions as well
| 14:40
|
| quaid
| ok, maybe on #fedora-docs, start anytime IMO
| 14:41
|
| harveybetty
| I can be available later on #fedora-docs.
| 14:41
|
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
| 14:41
|
| Release notes lead ...
|
| quaid
| this remains our only un-led guide
| 14:41
|
| quaid
| other than wider recruiting ...
| 14:42
|
| quaid
| any other thoughts on that one?
| 14:42
|
| * quaid notes that it is in fact usually much easier on the
| 14:42
|
| writing and much harder on the wrangling of cats than other content
|
| Sparks
| This is probably one of our biggest project that gets
| 14:42
|
| the most attention.
|
| quaid
| yeah, I think it's unlikely we'll just drop it
| 14:43
|
| quaid
| despite whatever stickster and I have said :)
| 14:43
|
| quaid
| so it might be worth a wider recruiting effort?
| 14:44
|
| -!- moixs [n=chatzill 77-56-144-22 dclient hispeed ch] has joined
| 14:44
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| stickster
| quaid: How many wider recruiting efforts have we had
| 14:44
|
| at this point, do you think?
|
| -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk
| 14:44
|
| * ke4qqq wonders if laubersm can be nudged more?
| 14:44
|
| * Sparks warms up the pokers
| 14:44
|
| * laubersm runs fast
| 14:44
|
| -!- BobJensen [n=jensen fedora/bobjensen] has quit [Read error:
| 14:45
|
| 110 (Connection timed out)]
|
| -!- EvilBob [n=EvilBob fedora/bobjensen] has quit [Read error: 110
| 14:45
|
| (Connection timed out)]
|
| Sparks
| laubersm: I'm sure you'll have support if you do take
| 14:46
|
| the project.
|
| -!- valente [n=valente 213 233 88 171] has quit ["Leaving."]
| 14:46
|
| quaid
| stickster: not that much outside of my occasional pleas
| 14:46
|
| via blogging
|
| Sparks
| laubersm: Just need someone to "manage" its development.
| 14:46
|
| laubersm
| sparks: I already have a project
| 14:46
|
| Sparks
| :)
| 14:46
|
| ke4qqq
| there's been the mailing list posts as well
| 14:46
|
| quaid
| yeah, that's my concern, we don't want to overload those
| 14:46
|
| who are already taking on assignments
|
| quaid
| stickster: but with one thing to recruit for, maybe that
| 14:47
|
| will help?
|
| ke4qqq
| so here is my concern.....
| 14:47
|
| * quaid listens
| 14:47
|
| ke4qqq
| you are essentially talking about taking a person from 0
| 14:47
|
| - - to responsible for what is arguably the most important document we
|
| produce at
|
| least in terms of # of readers.
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: honestly, I'm going to be there all the way alongside
| 14:49
|
| quaid
| but that is a good point
| 14:49
|
| Sparks
| quaid: How long does it take to put all the changes in?
| 14:49
|
| -!- ezq [n=ezq 201-213-152-14 net prima net ar] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
| 14:49
|
| quaid
| Sparks: ideally one watches the wiki along the way and
| 14:49
|
| makes it easier
|
| ke4qqq
| that sounds scary......even though there is handholding
| 14:49
|
| available.
|
| quaid
| true
| 14:49
|
| quaid
| maybe I could ask for "interns" to work directly with me
| 14:50
|
| for the release
|
| quaid
| with the idea that one of them will step-up to lead for
| 14:50
|
| the F12 release.
|
| ke4qqq
| why not target the beat writers for F10?
| 14:50
|
| ke4qqq
| esp the non-new feature writers
| 14:51
|
| -!- EvilBob [n=EvilBob fedora/bobjensen] has joined #Fedora-Meeting
| 14:51
|
| -!- BobJensen [n=jensen fedora/bobjensen] has joined #Fedora-Meeting
| 14:51
|
| quaid
| ke4qqq: as in, direct asking if they want to lead?
| 14:51
|
| ke4qqq
| yes
| 14:51
|
| quaid
| that's not a bad idea in fact :)
| 14:52
|
| * quaid makes himself a list
| 14:52
|
| quaid
| so ...
| 14:52
|
| ke4qqq
| that's a 'promotion'....lol
| 14:52
|
| quaid
| 1. Ask existing beat writers from F10
| 14:52
|
| -!- iarlyy [n=iarlyy mail libertynet com br] has joined
| 14:52
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| quaid
| 2. If no bites, maybe recruit ass't editors who get
| 14:52
|
| promoted in the future.
|
| quaid
| 3. If no go there, decide if we are going to do the guide
| 14:52
|
| anyway or not
|
| -!- cmpahar [n=cmpahar 83 212 63 5] has quit [Read error: 113 (No
| 14:53
|
| route to host)]
|
| * ke4qqq thinks FESCo will fire us if we don't.....besides that
| 14:53
|
| gets more rave reviews.... - perhaps we drop another document and
|
| refocus on that.
|
| * ke4qqq shrugs
| 14:53
|
| -!- rod085 [n=rod085 189 35 191 16] has joined #fedora-meeting
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| Sparks
| I see the Docs Project working on two kinds of projects:
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| Sparks
| 1) The projects we are passionate about
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| Sparks
| 2) The projects that need to get done for Fedora
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| quaid
| well, one can self-volunteer for 2) but you can't really
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| go asking for that too much.
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| Sparks
| While we all like doing the first type of projects we
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| all need to do the second type.
|
| * ke4qqq doesn't see many projects that aren't #2, even if the
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| reason for working on them are #1.
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| Sparks
| ke4qqq: true
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| * ke4qqq can't get subjects and verbs to agree
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| quaid
| right, and the idea is to get #2 done via the #1 method
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| quaid
| then it's done better, with more fun, etc.
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| ke4qqq
| +1
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| Sparks
| +1
| 14:57
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| laubersm
| and if there is someone out there passionate about
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| having release notes.....
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| quaid
| :D
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| quaid
| well, if we drop the work, they'll sure notice :)
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| ke4qqq
| there are lots of people passionate about having
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| them....just not about writing them.
|
| quaid
| is anyone available/interested in helping with the
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| recruting for RN lead?
|
| * ke4qqq will work on recruiting a new RN lead
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| quaid
| ke4qqq: you're on!
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| quaid
| thx
| 14:58
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| * quaid will update our tasks table with this stuff, too
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| quaid
| since we are near closing
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| quaid
| how about if we call this here and retire to #fedora-docs?
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| ke4qqq
| +1
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| danielsmw
| +1
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| quaid
| sweet
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|
| * quaid closes in 5
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| quaid
| 4
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| quaid
| 3
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| quaid
| 2
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| quaid
| 1
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| quaid
| </meeting>
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|
