Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090128

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Sparks <meeting id="Docs team"> 14:00
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting 14:00
* stickster here 14:00
* quaid is 50% here as Karsten 'quaid' Wade 14:00
* jjmcd here 14:00
* Sparks here 14:00
* ke4qqq is here 14:00
Sparks Meeting agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_28_January_2008 14:01
-!- zk-Simon [n=public@nat-studcudn-172-24-62-0.fitz.cam.ac.uk] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:01
* laubersm here 14:01
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on leadership (re)fresh 14:02
Sparks Okay, I'm going to turn this over to quaid before he has to leave 14:02
-!- DemonJester [n=DemonJes@fedora/DemonJester] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:02
quaid yeah, I'm in a meeting call right now 14:02
quaid and have 1/2 attention 14:02
-!- jsmith-lunch [n=nnnjsmit@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:02
quaid so will be fast as I can 14:02
quaid first, thanks Sparks for taking the meeting today. 14:02
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quaid second, it's clear on the list to me that we can reach consensus on leadership stuff with a scheme I have in mind. 14:03
quaid 1. I'd like to appoint Sparks to be Docs Lead for the (rest of) F11; his willingness and coordinating/organizing are clear all ready, and he 14:03
is interested and able.
quaid 2. We can then have an election just after F11, including deciding how long we want a leader to server (one or two releases) 14:04
quaid 3. There are a *ton* of you who are already leaders here and could clearly or likely lead this project; that is rather unusual, and awe 14:04
inspiring to me.
quaid in fact, more current contributors are capable of leading this team for a release than not, which is cool. 14:05
quaid 4. Then I can be a good Lt., help the transition, and help with making future leadership easier, as well as future contributing (hand-in-hand 14:05
problem)
quaid so, even if I haven't talked with you about being in the smaller group of those who actively lead ... 14:05
quaid I will :) 14:06
jsmith +1 on the nomination 14:06
quaid and I'll encourage each of you to continue in that mode -- show while doing 14:06
Sparks +1 on term limits :) 14:06
quaid  :D 14:06
stickster +1 on the nomination 14:06
* laubersm tags Sparks 14:06
jjmcd +1 14:06
ke4qqq +1 for sparks 14:06
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* stickster will be around to be a Lt. Lt. too 14:07
quaid I'd also especially like to ask you all to really step up in helping make Sparks successful 14:07
stickster +2. 14:07
quaid (not that you aren't ...) 14:07
quaid which means e.g. more 6s fun from jjmcd and jsmith  :) 14:07
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Sparks  :) 14:07
jjmcd  :-) 14:07
quaid in case it's not obvious, it's the mix of skills, personality, and hard work ethics that makes the team work best. 14:07
quaid and this is truly the strongest group of docs contributors that Fedora has yet seen, IMNSHO. 14:08
quaid one remaining item is the F11 release notes; I'm concerned about overloading Sparks 14:08
quaid and would suggest we consider taking ryanlerch up on his offer; 14:08
* jsmith puts away his (non-existant) campaign posters and buckles down for a great release (and release-notes!) for F11 14:08
quaid he just got off a big relnotes release and is ready to go and available, afaict 14:08
Sparks +1 to ryanlerch 14:09
quaid that would help e.g. jjmcd get more comfortable with how the relnotes run, so he can do it for F12 14:09
ke4qqq +1 14:09
jsmith +1 to ryanlerch as well 14:09
jsmith +1 to jjmcd being his shadow 14:09
jjmcd Sounds good to me 14:09
laubersm +1 14:09
quaid nice! 14:10
* quaid loves the smell of consensus in the morning ... 14:10
quaid it's the smell of community! 14:10
jsmith quaid: (You're on a roll... no disagreement from anyone!) 14:10
stickster I think the Relnotes definitely need a separate Someone. +1. 14:10
quaid are there any lagging leadership issues? 14:10
jjmcd I notice ryanlerch isn't here to defend himself 14:10
quaid I'll do a formal email to the list after the meeting, etc. 14:10
quaid jjmcd: heh 14:10
ke4qqq someone bring up the controversial stuff before we slip out of consensus :) 14:10
quaid jjmcd: I sent him email asking him to come by #fedora-docs this afternoon to discuss 14:10
quaid after I sort-of blew him off on list trying to keep the balance. 14:10
Sparks Anymore discussion? 14:11
quaid ok, I'm done then; and would love to see everyone figure out the CMS discussion _without_ having to explain my own thinking again; that's 14:11
getting boring to y'all
* jjmcd is beginning to develop an opinion on that, that's dangerous 14:12
* zk-Simon is here in case of questions 14:12
Sparks Okay, well, thanks for the support and as my first order of business... 14:12
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - CMS Plan 14:12
Sparks I'll change the topic. 14:12
stickster heh 14:12
stickster +1! The crowd goes wild! 14:12
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Sparks So today has been an interesting day for CMS discussions. 14:13
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Sparks Was anyone not around #f-docs for the conversation? 14:13
* jjmcd caught much of it, think I came in the middle, but I figured out hwere it eas headed 14:13
stickster It was full of vim and vinegar 14:14
* laubersm thinks "which one?" and runs 14:14
stickster Especially since I know jsmith likes vim. 14:14
jjmcd ewwwww 14:14
Sparks jsmith: I'd like to get your input about the CMS solution discussion, please. 14:14
stickster No one is full of Emacs and vinegar, after all. 14:14
jsmith stickster: Amen! 14:14
quaid stickster: only a pickle 14:14
stickster quaid: Oho! You win, good sirrah. 14:14
jsmith Sparks: I'm on the phone right this second, but I'm now in general agreement with the proposals at hand. 14:15
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Sparks Okay, does anyone have any concerns about standing up a CMS solution? 14:15
ke4qqq so at the risk of pushing ahead - I think we should go with Zikula - they are the only planA solution 14:15
ke4qqq and they seem to meet the requirements technically 14:16
Sparks ke4qqq: I know Word Press was interviewed. I haven't felt much energy from them, though. 14:16
jjmcd We got something that seems to meet the reqts and someone willing to chop off the chicken's head, so where's the problem 14:16
ke4qqq and I think if we decide to press ahead that I am the constraint 14:16
ke4qqq jjmcd: exactly! 14:16
stickster Has anyone asked the responsible parties for Legal, PackagingGuidelines, etc. about their thoughts? Not sure that's a requirement. 14:16
zk-Simon If anyone has reservations, I would like to hear them. Either to put them straight or alternatively to make sure I put specific focus on 14:16
their concerns as we move forward
Sparks stickster: Good point. 14:16
quaid their requirement was to not have to work *harder* 14:17
quaid and spot said he trusted us to not mess them up, iirc 14:17
Sparks How about this, let's vote on Zikula pending no major problems from the other areas. 14:17
quaid zikula++ 14:17
stickster Which I think we can guarantee. Zikula has editing capabilities on par with MW> 14:17
ke4qqq yep 14:17
ke4qqq +1 for zikula 14:18
laubersm +1 for taking the next step 14:18
Sparks +1 for Zikula 14:18
jjmcd + 14:18
stickster +1 14:19
zk-Simon Ok, well that seems positive 14:19
Sparks That sounds like a pass to me. 14:19
zk-Simon Next step? What do you want from me? 14:19
Sparks I'll write it up this afternoon and make sure we have the support from others. 14:20
ke4qqq next step is packaging iirc, and I think that is still on my plate 14:20
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Sparks zk-Simon: If you don't mind being on hand today and tomorrow for any questions from other groups. 14:20
* ke4qqq is fail for not already having it done 14:20
zk-Simon It just so happens we have a RPM build for Zikula as of a couple of days ago 14:20
Sparks Yes, packaging is high priority 14:20
ke4qqq zk-Simon: Link? 14:20
jjmcd Ohhh, that was my only concern, would be nice to see it packaged 14:20
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ke4qqq yeah for us to use it, it must live in fedora 14:21
quaid we should be able to start playing on the publictest instance even without the package 14:21
zk-Simon Sparks: No link, I'd ahve to upload it somewhere (in my email inbox I think) 14:21
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Sparks zk-Simon: Get with ke4qqq on that. 14:21
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quaid so for zk-Simon that means applying for sysadmin and sysadmin-test with anyone from zikula.org who is helping 14:21
ke4qqq zk-Simon: SRPM and spec file please - feel free to send it to the list or me privately 14:21
quaid zk-Simon: those are FAS groups 14:21
quaid mmcgrath can tell us if he wants to make a new sysadmin-cms ... 14:22
Sparks ke4qqq: Can you help zk-Simon with getting FAS accounts squared away? 14:22
zk-Simon ok. Have to hold my hand a little here since I don't know your processess 14:22
ke4qqq Sparks: yep - we'll take care of it after the meeting 14:22
Sparks ke4qqq: Thank you 14:22
ke4qqq np 14:22
Sparks Anything else on the CMS? 14:23
zk-Simon I'll be around for as long as necessary tomorrow, but I'm out for a couple of hours at least from the end of the meeting 14:23
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* stickster is happy to see such verve and vigor in the Docs meeting again :-) 14:24
ke4qqq zk-Simon: ok - I am around quite a bit, just ping me when you have some time 14:24
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on Release Notes document 14:24
Sparks I know we are going to have to do some switching around on this... 14:25
Sparks I know we need beat writers for various subjects. 14:25
Sparks Does anyone have any questions on this? I should be better prepared next week. 14:26
ke4qqq do we have a list of what beats have no writers? 14:26
Sparks ke4qqq: Yes... 14:26
* Sparks goes hunting for the link 14:26
Sparks https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats 14:26
Sparks All 48 of them (plus or minus) 14:27
Sparks The page still needs some cleaning up. 14:27
Sparks I sent out an email to everyone that was listed from F10. If they were continueing on then they removed the "*" from beside their name. 14:27
ke4qqq so - can we delegate that out 'beat writer hunting' now? 14:27
Sparks But there are a lot of open spots that could use some love 14:28
Sparks ke4qqq: sure 14:28
stickster Makes sense to move on to finding new writers. 14:28
Sparks stickster: :1 14:28
Sparks +1 14:28
Sparks Yeah, we are WAY behind on this. 14:28
stickster It's not that bad, I don't think 14:29
stickster But it wouldn't hurt to start contacting people responsible for packages that are central to the beat 14:29
Sparks We have had quite a few people sign up for slots in the past week which is really good. 14:29
stickster i.e. fedora-kernel-list, or the virt list, or... 14:29
stickster Typically those developers do start devoting more time post-Beta 14:29
Sparks stickster: Absolutely. 14:29
stickster But it's incumbent upon us to... keep them from forgetting ;-) 14:30
jjmcd Some of the major devtools came up as new beats. Not sure that e.g. Emacs needs its own beat, but most of those I expect to do 14:30
stickster jjmcd: They're coming up as new beats because they're transcluded pages 14:30
jjmcd ahhh yeah, you mentioned how you like that 14:31
* stickster loathes transcludes in the relnotes beats... headaches! 14:31
Sparks yeah 14:31
stickster I think it would be sensible to provide a key for people to know where to file their notes on "Package XYZ" 14:31
jjmcd Some may make sense, tho. The Haskell group seems pretty active, actually, might be good to recruit someone there 14:31
stickster Then kill the transcludes 14:31
quaid +1 to death of transcludes 14:32
Sparks +1 14:32
quaid they aren't needed 14:32
stickster Every time we try to be clever, we generally out-clever ourselves :-D 14:32
quaid you said it! 14:32
danielsmw lol 14:33
stickster If Ian had been around he'd have slapped sense into us 14:33
Sparks Well, he can now 14:33
ke4qqq I think he actually prefers setting people on fire :) 14:33
quaid with a sharp fork to the eyes first 14:33
Sparks jjmcd: Do you want to start beating the drum on the... beats? 14:33
jjmcd Sure 'nuff 14:34
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Sparks jjmcd: Okay, let me know if you need anything. Targetting the groups that aren't represented would be great. 14:34
Sparks jjmcd: And maybe something up on planet. 14:34
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* jjmcd gotta get hooked up there yet 14:34
Sparks jjmcd: I can put something up there in the mean time.  :) 14:35
jjmcd cool 14:35
Sparks Anything else? 14:35
ke4qqq jjmcd: lets work on that after the meeting 14:35
ke4qqq I owe work for that to danielsmw as well 14:36
jjmcd roger that 14:36
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - DocsProject page changes 14:37
Sparks ianweller is working with G_work to get the wikibot turned loose on the Docs Pages. 14:37
danielsmw ke4qqq: I'll join in after this then 14:37
stickster sweet 14:37
Sparks Apparently there are some problems with the bot so G_work is working on that. 14:38
Sparks I'll let ianweller talk about it later. 14:38
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - John Poelstra's schedule 14:38
Sparks ke4qqq: What'd did you come up with from the conference call? 14:39
ke4qqq so releng is going to handle alpha announcement 14:40
ke4qqq and keep it 14:40
ke4qqq 'permanently' 14:40
ke4qqq we are taking Beta and GA release announcements 14:40
quaid sweet 14:40
Sparks ke4qqq: That works. 14:41
Sparks Did everyone get a chance to look at the schedule that John sent out? 14:41
ke4qqq essentially eof from me - I have more details from the call - but none that relate to docs project. 14:41
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stickster ke4qqq: Probably worth sending something to the f-docs-list to memorialize 14:42
Sparks +1 14:42
jjmcd look at, yes; digest, no 14:42
Sparks jjmcd: Yeah 14:42
stickster I'll take the action item to get Poelstra to add the appropriate actions to the docs tasks list 14:42
Sparks stickster: Thank you 14:42
* jsmith stumbles back from a phone conference 14:42
laubersm what jjmcd said 14:43
jsmith (Silly $dayjob... gotta get Fedora or Red Hat to hire me) 14:43
ke4qqq lol 14:43
Sparks jsmith: Yeah, me too. 14:43
jjmcd That whole working for a living thing really sucks,doesn't it 14:43
Sparks Okay, lets take the week to digest what needs to be done and come back to it next week 14:43
jsmith jjmcd: I don't mind working... it's the politics that grate on my nerves 14:44
* jjmcd remembers that, but bing a full-time bum is a much sweeter gig 14:44
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Go over task table 14:44
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Task_table
* quaid done with his meeting 14:44
quaid that table is a bit out of date, sorry :) 14:44
laubersm I was noticing that :) 14:44
Sparks It looks like we need to garden our table! 14:45
quaid heh 14:45
quaid I can edit and make changes while we discuss the updates, if you'd like 14:46
quaid (if you aren't already someone) 14:46
jjmcd seems like we have a bunch of projects that need to be transcluded in that list 14:46
quaid items missing from there? yes 14:46
* quaid edits the page now 14:48
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stickster Yay table gardening :-) 14:49
jjmcd Looks like some things are dealt with, some need more detail. e.g. now that we have a CMS strategy we need to lay out the steps. 14:49
quaid for the first item, we are waiting on page renaming, right? 14:49
stickster more or less, I suppose. 14:49
quaid how do we feel about our toolchain now? 14:50
quaid is that still an open task? 14:50
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jjmcd I suspect it will evolve post-CMS, wonder whether we should stress over it before 14:51
ke4qqq I thought our focus was to move to publican? 14:51
quaid s 14:51
ke4qqq independent of any cms 14:51
quaid yes 14:51
jjmcd I assume so 14:51
quaid but fedora-doc-utils still has some purpose, etc. 14:51
quaid how about jsmith, stickster, and I discuss next chance on IRC to see where that is and what needs to be done? 14:52
jjmcd But what is the point of CMS if it doesn't help our processes? Not sure we know exactly HOW yet 14:52
quaid this toolchain stuff is primarily the work that happens just before the CMS pulls the content in. 14:52
quaid but it's possible there will be stuff to *add* to the toolchain as part of the CMS work. 14:52
jjmcd Yes, I gather that. I suspect, tho, some things will want to change 14:53
jjmcd Yeah, maybe add, maybe subtract 14:53
quaid ok, I marked it as ongoing 14:53
quaid and that the three principals for that task will talk and decide what up 14:53
jsmith Sounds like a plan 14:54
quaid publican migration ... next chance I might work on that during FAD at SCaLE 7x? 14:54
quaid there is a branch for migrating the IG 14:54
stickster I think the f-d-u is a pet project only at this point, so yeah, we'll discuss that offline 14:54
quaid jsmith: have you looked at that? 14:54
stickster ("offline" == "not here, probably online") 14:54
jsmith quaid: Got started at FudCON, then ran into problems, haven't picked it back up yet 14:54
jsmith quaid: May have some time next week, while I'm playing 'Booth Babe' at a conference in Miami 14:55
stickster jsmith: Apparently ryanlerch did a migration of our release notes that he claims was fairly painles 14:55
stickster *painless, even 14:55
stickster I asked him to locate and augment our guidance for doing that procedure on the wiki 14:55
ke4qqq stickster: did he document the process? 14:55
jsmith stickster: That's great to hear! 14:55
stickster ke4qqq: q.v. ^^ 14:55
quaid ok, next item 14:56
quaid team per document is completed. 14:56
quaid right? 14:56
ke4qqq well at least lead 14:56
jjmcd For some, like RL, recruiting the team will be an ongoing thing, and for all probably some need 14:57
quaid ok, lead writer id'd still working on team 14:57
quaid jjmcd: yep, I just put 'ongoing' as deadline :) 14:57
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quaid ok I'll put the CMS status under that task 14:58
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Sparks 1 minute warning 14:59
quaid the future of fedora docs stuff is resolved; that was all about 'get a leader who isn't stale in the head' 14:59
quaid the rest is fine 14:59
stickster The biggest issue before the group has been cleared, that's a good meeting in my bookk. 14:59
* quaid thinks that is the task list done 14:59
stickster Sparks: We're here for you, and know you'll do a good job. 14:59
quaid stickster: heck, we touched upon everything to boot! 14:59
Sparks  :) 14:59
Sparks stickster: thanks. 14:59
Sparks Anyone have anything else? 15:00
quaid let's call it :0 15:00
Sparks 5 15:00
laubersm Thanks Sparks!!!! 15:00
Sparks 4 15:00
Sparks 3 15:00
Sparks 2 15:00
Sparks 1 15:00
Sparks Thanks folks! 15:00
jjmcd And the crowd roars 15:00
Sparks </meeting> 15:00