Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090604

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Sparks <meeting id="Docs Project"> 02:00
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - 02:00
Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
Sparks Roll Call! 02:00
* Sparks is here 02:00
* zoglesby is here 02:00
-!- jjmcd [n=jjmcd@75-134-169-186.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #Fedora-meeting 02:01
* rudi is here 02:02
-!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 02:02
* jjmcd . 02:03
Sparks zoglesby: Can you handle the log for tonight? 02:04
zoglesby I don't have logs... 02:04
zoglesby I can scroll and copy and paste 02:05
zoglesby unless someone can tell me how to log in irssi real fast 02:05
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Sparks zoglesby: No, that's how you do it, I think. 02:06
Sparks Anyone else for the Docs Meeting? 02:06
-!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 02:06
zoglesby Sparks: I can do it then 02:06
* Sparks wonders where everyone is tonight. 02:07
jjmcd Watching the Wings? 02:08
Sparks Maybe... 02:08
Sparks Well, let's get started.. 02:08
* stickster is sorry he's late 02:08
stickster I can handle logs if needed. 02:08
Sparks stickster: Be a backup... I think zoglesby needs to practice... :) 02:09
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - FAD SELF 2009 <-- ke4qqq 02:09
zoglesby ill do it, but I thought irssi had a log function 02:09
* stickster is apparently at the mercy of LAG 02:09
stickster Will do 02:09
Sparks Well... I don't know where ke4qqq is but I'll talk a little about FAD. 02:09
stickster It does, IIRC 02:09
Sparks SELF @ Clemson on Jun 13. The day after we will have a Docs FAD. 02:10
stickster /RAWLOG open <filename> 02:10
Sparks We will be looking heavily at F12 processes and how to improve them. 02:10
stickster Yay! 02:11
Sparks If you plan on attending please sign up at 02:11
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF_2009
* stickster will be there too, flight is not until ~5:30 or 6:00pm 02:11
Sparks Cool 02:11
Sparks Does anyone have any questions about SELF or the FAD? 02:11
zoglesby is there going to be a conf call number? 02:11
jjmcd 2008? 02:12
Sparks Yeah, I think so 02:12
* ke4qqq is here 02:12
ke4qqq but late 02:12
-!- adamw [n=AdamW@S010600226b8aa2ea.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:12
Sparks ke4qqq: Anything to add? 02:12
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stickster Who's responsible for setting up the call stuff? 02:13
stickster i.e. hardare 02:13
ke4qqq nothing here - you covered most of it 02:13
stickster *hardware, even 02:13
ke4qqq stickster: I am 02:13
stickster Do you need anything that I can help provide? 02:13
ke4qqq ianweller is also bringing his 02:13
ke4qqq yourself 02:13
ke4qqq and that's it 02:13
stickster  :-) done! 02:13
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Sparks Okay, anything else? 02:14
ke4qqq eof from me 02:14
Sparks ke4qqq: I'm assuming you'll send out an email or put something on the wiki about how 02:14
to remotely attend.
ke4qqq yeah I need to remmeber the conf number for docs 02:14
ke4qqq but yes we'll do that 02:15
Sparks 2008 02:15
-!- jsmith [n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:15
ke4qqq in the next day or so 02:15
Sparks Cool 02:15
Sparks Okay, moving on... 02:15
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on 02:15
CC license discussion. <--quaid
Sparks Last week we started discussing changing our licensing from OPL to CC-BY-SA. 02:15
Sparks I don't think quaid is with us tonight, though, so I don't know what the status is. 02:15
Sparks Does anyone have any questions about the change? 02:16
stickster Were we waiting for something to be resolved regarding compatibility with internal 02:16
RH teams?
Sparks kinda 02:16
* stickster not sure what quaid is meant to answer, and would be happy to send some email 02:16
around to check on stuff
Sparks I think we were waiting to make sure everything was okay 02:17
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Sparks quaid said he was going to run with it within the RH community. 02:17
ke4qqq I think we were also waiting on which specific version of cc-by-sa RH Legal was going 02:17
to bless
stickster k 02:17
stickster Yeah, I'm sure there was some further Legal review required in there. 02:17
Sparks yeah... okay, anything else? 02:18
* stickster stands back and lets everyone do their thang 02:18
Sparks okay, moving on... 02:18
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- 02:18
ryanlerch & jjmcd
Sparks jjmcd: So what's the status on the RN? 02:18
jjmcd We got an update today I think, still need to check more to be sure it isn't there in 02:18
different words
jjmcd but all on docs.fp.o 02:18
Sparks excellent. 02:19
jjmcd If change only en-US will make it to docs.fp.o for release 02:19
Sparks Yeah, I saw the update come through earlier. 02:19
jjmcd but rest will get through on an update 02:19
jjmcd we are now in a position where we can easily produce an update rpm 02:19
Sparks Have you already pushed the RPM up? 02:19
jjmcd from like a week ago 02:19
stickster That's the standard GA one, right? 02:20
stickster 11.0.0-2? 02:20
jjmcd Yeah 02:20
jjmcd 11.0.1 I thinlk 02:20
jjmcd 11.0.1 I think 02:20
stickster Ooo 02:20
stickster That's the zero day? Includes L10n? 02:20
jjmcd yes 02:20
stickster Wow, bonzer 02:20
jjmcd but if we have a REAL zero day 02:20
jjmcd I've also been working on linking to reduce space 02:21
jjmcd Recognized some odd things with yelp, still not sure whats going on there 02:21
jjmcd yelp documentation seems to be lacking 02:21
jjmcd We're not seeing icons in note, tip, etc 02:22
jjmcd But that appears to be yelp's to do, all we do is say, e.g. <tip> 02:22
stickster jjmcd: You and I probably need to collaborate on that so I can help you keep your 02:22
hair
jjmcd Works fine on 10, not on 11. But I'm not 100% certain that I've found all of yelp's 02:23
tentacles
jjmcd stickster, sounds like a plan 02:23
Sparks jjmcd: Anything else? 02:23
jjmcd No 02:23
Sparks anyone? 02:23
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zodbot Announcement from my owner (stickster): FESCo nominee town hall meeting at 0200 UTC 02:24
(~100 minutes from now) -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections#IRC_Town_Halls
stickster Me realizes "need" is a lot of assumption, maybe "could" is better :-) 02:24
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jjmcd '-) 02:24
Sparks Okay, moving on... 02:24
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release 02:24
Announcement <-- Sparks
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Sparks Thanks to everyone who helped out with the Announcement. 02:24
Sparks It has been tweaked, pounded, deleted, restored, and edited. 02:25
Sparks I think we are done with it.  :) There are links to the RNs and to the Installation 02:25
Guide at the bottom so it's good for us.
jjmcd I just wish you guys could hear George Dobbs, G3RJV, talk. 02:25
Sparks jjmcd: Freq? 02:25
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jjmcd He's a British minister and sounds just like that 02:25
Sparks  :) 02:25
jjmcd FDIM ;-) 02:26
joat whew! 02:26
Sparks Does anyone have any questions or comments on the Announcement? 02:26
Sparks Okay, moving on... 02:26
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide 02:27
<-- ke4qqq & rudi
stickster Did anyone let the translators know that they could run with it and abandon the 02:27
top part at will?
* stickster can't remember whether he remembered to fire something off on that or not. 02:27
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Sparks Ummm... not from this office 02:27
jsmith I thought it was at the list... 02:27
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jsmith s/at the/on the/ 02:27
jjmcd I thouhgt I saw something on l10n 02:27
rudi stickster 02:27
* stickster is busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kickin' contest and doesn't recall 02:27
rudi Ooops - I see you were commenting on the last topic, NM 02:28
rudi Install Guide is in translation - Italian now nearly complete 02:28
jjmcd rudi, thanks for helping Claudia 02:29
rudi Whole stack of changes and revisions to make after release :) 02:29
stickster Sparks: I don't see it on fedora-trans-list, could you send something out? 02:29
rudi jjmcd - NP. I like to lie in wait for new translators ;) 02:29
Sparks stickster: yeah, I will 02:29
stickster disco 02:29
* stickster notes that the top part is only (barely, arguably) funny in English and 02:30
translators are free to come up with their own material.
Sparks rudi and ke4qqq: Can we get the final draft of HTML and PDFs up on docs.fp.o no later 02:30
than Sunday?
rudi Sparks - NP 02:30
rudi Already good to go. 02:31
Sparks rudi: Cool. When you figure out where the PDF is going please let Admin know so they 02:31
can add it to the cache list.
Sparks rudi: Excellent. 02:31
rudi NP 02:31
Sparks Okay, anything else for the Installation Guide? 02:31
rudi Nope :) 02:32
stickster Thank you for working on that, guys 02:32
Sparks Okay... Now I need to bring up a topic that... well, is a little scary. 02:33
Sparks If you are sensitive to that kind of stuff, you should look away. 02:33
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Fedora 12... Only 152 days 02:33
to GA... <-- Sparks
Sparks Yes... Only 152 days until Fedora 12 is released. 02:33
Sparks and yes, we need to be looking at this now. 02:33
* jjmcd thought he cold wait until FUDcon to kick off F12 RN's 02:34
stickster Yay F12! Last key on the keyboard! 02:34
Sparks jjmcd: Actually the RNs for F12 are already started! 02:34
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jjmcd Yeah I saw that 02:34
Sparks stickster: What happens with F13? Are we skipping it for superstitious reasons? 02:34
stickster Nope, it's going to be named either "Keating" or "Eamon" 02:35
rudi Sparks - the USAF did :) 02:35
stickster Wait, that might not work. 02:35
jjmcd That will certainly be cornfusing on IRC 02:35
stickster Oops, I forgot about the whole voting thing :-) 02:35
Sparks stickster: Oh we can make that happen. 02:35
rudi How about F13 Stealth :) 02:35
stickster When f13's IRC starts buzzing him 24/7 I'm going to laugh, and laugh... 02:36
Sparks Oh that is good... 02:36
Sparks Yeah, he's going to have to change 02:36
zoglesby Sparks: what would you like to mention about this? Or just trying to wake us up and 02:36
get ready?
stickster I remember when he was a different nick, we'll see if he goes back to it. More 02:36
deponent sayeth not.
jjmcd I figured maybe that was his retirement release 02:36
Sparks So here's the real scary part... 02:37
Sparks http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-summary-tasks.html 02:37
Sparks And here are things I want to work on... 02:37
Sparks Docs_decisions_for_F12 <-- we'll be working on this during FAD and we'll have answers 02:37
then
Sparks The Release Notes will be done in Publican 02:38
stickster http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 02:38
jjmcd uitstekend! 02:38
Sparks as well as all the guides... 02:38
Sparks Okay, you can stop laughing now... I know we've said that every release for the past 02:38
few... but I'm serious now... kinda
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Sparks Release Notes will be done early and will be available by Oct 15 (not including 02:39
zero-day) <-- this one is for jjmcd
jjmcd With no alpha, are beta rn's going to be in n languages 02:39
Sparks We are going to have to get this stuff squared away. We got "lucky" by F11 being 02:39
pushed.
* stickster thinks it's vital that the team center on one toolset. 02:40
Sparks And not just us... folks were still providing changes. 02:40
Sparks not good 02:40
Sparks stickster: yes! 02:40
Sparks There will be no zero-day changes 02:40
Sparks Okay... maybe this is wishful thinking... 02:40
Sparks but we had way too many changes that seemed to trickle in 02:41
jjmcd And I think we are just about there. Didn't someone have the f-d-u stuff ported, just 02:41
waiting to push?
Sparks we need to get folks on the ball with this. Cattle prod or something. 02:41
zoglesby jjmcd: I think so 02:41
jjmcd Sparks, well, having ticklers on the schedule for notes to the lists will help 02:41
zoglesby Rlandmann did them 02:41
Sparks yes... and that will be something I'm going to talk about in a few minutes. 02:41
jjmcd That figures - that guy don't sleep 02:41
Sparks Translation issues must be taken into consideration 02:41
Sparks We had complaints from the translation teams and I understand their frustration. We 02:42
need to work with them on how to not make things harder for them.
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jjmcd Sparks, I think we need to be a lot more proactive on communicating to 02:42
fedora-trans-list
jjmcd as well as restructuring rn's 02:43
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Sparks And finally... All guides, other than Installation Guide, should be in Publican and 02:43
be pushed to docs.fp.o in HTML and PDF formats and should be packaged.
zoglesby this is all stuff thats going to be hammered out at FAD right? 02:43
stickster jjmcd: +1. 02:44
Sparks jjmcd: Yes! 02:44
stickster A lot of it is just sending periodic emails, a few times a week, and anytime you 02:44
want to change something.
stickster (during the freeze, that is) 02:44
stickster And more, it really should be soliciting opinions and getting +/-1 from the L10n 02:44
community.
Sparks stickster: And thank them a lot! They are doing a tough job. 02:45
stickster no kidding 02:45
stickster I don't know how they do it. Seriously. 02:45
jjmcd zoglesby, I am expecting you guys to work hard rather than spending all your time 02:45
eating fried chicken and greens
stickster mmmffwha-huh? 02:45
* jjmcd won't be at SELF :-( 02:45
Sparks fried chicken??? Where? 02:45
stickster If there is not some <expletive> good fried chicken in my belly on Sunday I will 02:45
be an unhappy camper.
stickster Or BBQ. 02:46
zoglesby jjmcd: I will not be there, to much money to fly from spain 02:46
stickster I can be flexible. 02:46
Sparks stickster: You can't get good BBQ over there... 02:46
Sparks you have to go east of I-95 in NC 02:46
jjmcd I was looking forward to ke4qqq's en-SC.po tho 02:46
* Sparks is hoping to stop by Gaffney, though. 02:46
stickster jjmcd: heh 02:47
stickster OK -- back to Sparks' last comment about packaging 02:47
stickster I like the idea of dropping the whole yelp/OMF thing and going with simple, 02:47
installable HTML that appears as a menu entry
stickster But we can hash this out at SELF I guess :-) 02:48
rudi +1 for HTML; which will be more KDE-friendly too 02:48
jjmcd I like the UI for yelp, the html is kind of a secret, altho a menu would help 02:48
rudi (or KDE-friendly at all, in fact ;) 02:48
Sparks +1 02:49
* jjmcd hadn't considered KDE 02:49
jjmcd od XFCE 02:49
stickster rudi: Interestingly, I had a special KDE khelpcenter installation handled in 02:49
fedora-doc-utils (originally docs-common)
jjmcd s/od/or 02:49
rudi jjmcd - nobody ever does :( 02:49
stickster But I couldn't get anyone to help me make sure I was Doing It Right 02:49
rudi No dirty GNOME on my machines! :) 02:49
stickster /KICKBAN rudi 02:49
stickster You'll have to forgive him, he lives in the upside down part of the world 02:50
rudi lolz 02:50
* stickster apologetically lets Sparks get on with it 02:50
Sparks No... I did that for one reason... spark discussion! 02:51
zoglesby stickster: you are mighty off topic today... 02:51
jjmcd Do we want to package pdf? And why not pdf instead of xml? 02:51
jjmcd errr html 02:51
zoglesby I think the pdf looks better 02:51
Sparks pdf is great for portable... html is better for searching via google or such 02:51
Sparks So I'd rather have... both! 02:52
stickster HTML is also more searchable from a variety of indexing utilities the person may 02:52
be using
stickster Two copies seems wasteful to me. 02:52
jjmcd I guess they should be packaged separately 02:52
zoglesby stickster: good point I don't use indexing tools 02:52
stickster Nothing wrong with that 02:52
* stickster points to diveintopython-* RPMs as examples 02:53
jjmcd Still, 1428 seems like a lot of rpms 02:54
Sparks Well... just note that we aren't going to have much down time for the F12 release. 02:54
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stickster jjmcd: wha-huh? 02:54
jjmcd 17 docs * 42 langs * 2 formats 02:54
stickster Ugh. 02:54
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Sparks but we can continue this conversation on F12 in coming weeks 02:54
Sparks Wow... That's a lot of packages 02:55
stickster jjmcd: I could see packaging all langs together 02:55
Sparks should we have them approved separately? 02:55
stickster *choke* 02:55
jjmcd Docs needs to grow some packagers 02:55
zoglesby I am slowly learning 02:56
stickster There is a special RPM variable that lets you drop locales; if you guys got with 02:56
the RPM developers you might be able to work something out the same way with
documentation RPMs.
Sparks Yeah, I think we are going to work on that @ Clemson 02:56
zoglesby but its all been haskeel stuff 02:56
rudi packaging all langs together would make for some big packages :) IIRC, over 100MB for 02:56
the Install Guide
stickster You guys know that /usr/share/locale has the translated messages for everything 02:56
you install, right?
stickster There are ways to silently drop out all the locales except your current one when 02:57
you install a RPM package
stickster Cuts down on disk space when it's tight. 02:57
stickster Actually, the more I think about it.... 02:57
stickster I think that we ought to concentrate on establishing a presence where people can 02:58
manually install the documentation RPM they want.
stickster PackageKit makes it drop-dead easy point-and-click. 02:58
jjmcd exactly 02:58
stickster We do *not* want to put 1428 more RPMs in Fedora. 02:58
stickster That's just silly. 02:58
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stickster As always, this is just my $0.02 02:58
stickster I would think that we should put real muscle during the next 30 days after release 02:59
into getting Zikula off the ground.
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Sparks Yes! 02:59
stickster And one of the purposes that could serve would be to house the new docs.fp.o 02:59
stickster Including "pretty-fied" access to the new docs RPMs. 02:59
stickster There are a number of other things people want out of the Zikula CMS 03:00
jjmcd That would be way cool 03:00
stickster But none of it's going to happen unless we make it happen. 03:00
stickster Our current web publishing sucks rocks. 03:00
jjmcd I didn't say that 03:00
stickster haha 03:00
stickster It was "good enough" (for some value thereof) for Fedora Core 3, but this 03:01
community has come a *long* way since then.
stickster We've got to have something that is easier to run, easier to administer, and 03:01
easier to understand.
zoglesby are we still wating on packages or testing? 03:01
Sparks I think some parts are still waiting to be packaged 03:02
stickster ke4qqq: Any insight here? 03:02
stickster Can we make it a point *before* SELF to establish what's left to be done, and try 03:02
and do as much as possible of it there, after the decision tasks?
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Sparks Yeah, I'll get with ke4qqq and get a list 03:03
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Sparks Okay, anything else on these topics? 03:04
* stickster is really hot to get *something* off the ground so we can get to work on this 03:04
zoglesby indeed 03:04
stickster I installed it on my local box and tried it out, it was pretty easy to run and I 03:05
was thoroughly impressed.
Sparks Okay, let's move on to the last few topics. 03:05
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Bugzilla Component Changes 03:05
Sparks I sent an email out to the list earlier today. 03:05
Sparks It contains a list of all the components of Docs in BZ 03:06
jjmcd wits a lot of docs which would be really cool to have 03:06
Sparks At next week's meeting we'll figure out which ones to dump. 03:06
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jjmcd Sparks, I smell an opportunity 03:06
Sparks jjmcd: Yes and this is a good time to pull those out, dust them off, and get some of 03:06
our new members involved.
jjmcd exactly 03:07
* mchua apologizes for tardiness 03:07
stickster mchua!!!!1!! 03:07
zoglesby what bug do you speak of? 03:07
jjmcd It can be pretty low pressure but with a lot of flexibility 03:07
Sparks zoglesby: Not a bug... the components that break out the docs on BZ 03:07
zoglesby I think i found the email 03:08
jjmcd BZ = military speak for Bugzilla, but you knew that 03:08
* zoglesby looks at my pants 03:08
zoglesby still in the military... 03:08
jjmcd AF might not talk the same as the Navy tho 03:08
Sparks zoglesby: I didn't realize the AF was still considered a military group. 03:09
zoglesby nope I don't go to the head 03:09
zoglesby I am not going to defend them... 03:09
Sparks okay, I'm not harrassing my AF buddies now 03:10
jjmcd Why do I get the feeling that zoglesby ain't gonna be a lifer 03:10
Sparks SO, who NEEDS/WANTS a BZ component for their project? 03:10
zoglesby I do 03:10
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zoglesby I have been working on readme-burning-isos to make it foss only 03:10
* Sparks thought that was already in BZ 03:11
jjmcd I think there is a component for that 03:11
Sparks zoglesby: I can assign it to you. 03:11
rudi zoglesby - when you're done with those, can you shoot me the updated verson so I can 03:12
incorporate it into my Publicanized version of the doc?
stickster zoglesby: Hang on, did you mean you're *removing* instructions for how people can 03:12
use their existing proprietary software to try, and switch to, Fedora?
rudi (Heh... or not...) 03:12
zoglesby nero and such are not parts of windows 03:12
jjmcd stickster, I think a lot of what was there was old stuff 03:12
zoglesby and you cant include every application out there 03:13
stickster zoglesby: You're absolutely right, but Nero is also shipped with a *ton* of 03:13
hardware by default
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connection]
stickster zoglesby: Can you include a single section for "Other software," where you try to 03:13
make instructions that are generic enough to work for most other apps that people
can't get for free?
stickster Many people will have pre-installed software from OEMs and we don't want to leave 03:14
them out in the cold
zoglesby we talked about this before in #docs but we can talk about it again there after this 03:14
rudi True - it's rare to see a Windows box out there *without* Nero or Sonic on it... 03:14
jjmcd Of course, with newer versions of Windows you don't need that stuff anymore, and I'm 03:14
not so sure I've seen it with any recent drives
stickster ok, we don't need to derail here 03:14
* stickster & 03:14
stickster jjmcd: good point 03:14
* stickster is happy as long as we can cover whatever comes free with other big-market-share OS 03:14
Sparks zoglesby: Would you like tickets for that to go to you? 03:15
stickster and some appropriate free aps 03:15
stickster *apps 03:15
zoglesby indeed 03:15
zoglesby to both of you... 03:15
Sparks Okay... 03:15
Sparks zoglesby: Do you have an editor? 03:16
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zoglesby an editor? like emacs? or a person? 03:16
Sparks a person 03:17
Sparks If not... I'll put myself as QA 03:17
zoglesby not that I know of 03:17
Sparks ok 03:17
stickster yay Emacs! 03:17
Sparks We haven't done that in a while. 03:17
* Sparks is proud of stickster for standing up for Emacs on FLOSS Weekly 03:18
Sparks  :) 03:18
zoglesby indeed again 03:18
zoglesby emacs comes up a lot of that show 03:18
Sparks okay... anything else on the BZ stuff? 03:18
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-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Calendar 03:19
Sparks Okay... I want a calendar. 03:19
zoglesby me to 03:19
Sparks I'm thinking about just posting a ical file, or something like that, to docs.fp.o and 03:20
giving everyone read access.
Sparks Would that be helpful? 03:20
Sparks It would be the Docs calendar... helpful reminders of deadlines, meetings, events, 03:20
etc.
zoglesby works for me 03:20
zoglesby but ideally something with controlled write access would be nice 03:21
jjmcd Why not in git so anyone can maintain it 03:21
stickster eventually to be subsumed by Zikula also :-) 03:21
Sparks jjmcd: We could. I'm trying to come up with a solution 03:21
Sparks Zikula has a calendaring function... 03:21
jjmcd If Zikula is doing it for us, then maybe a wiki page in the interim 03:22
Sparks jjmcd: The only problem with a wiki page is that it won't incorporate into a calendar 03:22
I automatically stare at daily
* Sparks thinks this would be a similar problem 03:23
Sparks I mean, there are already release calendars out there that I forget to look at. 03:23
stickster don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. 03:23
stickster An iCal on a site is a start 03:23
stickster and can probably be imported to Zikula later 03:23
Sparks Any other ideas? 03:24
zoglesby buy google and open source google apps? 03:24
stickster heh 03:25
jjmcd google calendar sucks swanp water 03:25
Sparks Whose to say it isn't open source... has anyone asked? 03:25
stickster It's not 03:25
* Sparks likes google calendar 03:25
stickster The API is open, that's it. 03:25
Sparks Okay... so I'm going to work on an iCal and attempt to figure out the best way of 03:25
doing it
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Sparks Okay, moving on... 03:26
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - New Guide - Where's the 03:26
source?
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Sparks To help people get to our source files I want to build a small guide that helps point 03:27
people to where they can obtain source files.
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Sparks It's on the wiki right now. If anyone would like to adopt this and move it into 03:28
Publican please let me knwo.
Sparks It would be an excellent project for a new member 03:28
* stickster wonders if Publican may not be necessary for this one, since the need for formal 03:28
publication is probably pretty low
Sparks stickster: My want was to get it on docs.fp.o 03:29
zoglesby keep it on the wiki? 03:29
stickster Yes 03:29
Sparks But it could be kept on the wiki... it's just easier to get buried there 03:29
stickster Because the wiki is more or less the center for development efforts 03:29
Sparks and forgotten 03:29
stickster We could solve that with clever linking though :-) 03:29
stickster Essentially, no document on the wiki is important unless you do that. 03:30
stickster What makes wiki documents *not* forgotten is that you refer to it often :-) 03:30
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* stickster notes that there is a landing target he just found on the wiki: 03:30
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development
stickster I'd *totally* link to this new "Get the Source, Luke" page from there. 03:30
Sparks Cool 03:31
stickster that Development page is also linked from here: 03:31
stickster http://redhat.com/developers/ 03:31
Sparks I'm good with keeping it on the wiki as long as it stays visable 03:31
stickster I think if you publicize its existence, you won't have any problems with that ;-) 03:32
Sparks Cool 03:32
stickster Plenty of people will start linking to it, blogging, etc. 03:32
Sparks Any questions or comments? 03:32
stickster It's so obvious, it's a wonder we don't have it yet! 03:32
zoglesby and if we are wrong we move it later 03:32
stickster Sure, nothing's written in stone in the end. 03:32
stickster I just think moving things to Publican makes them less likely to be contributed to 03:33
by people outside this group
Sparks stickster: yeah, it just hit me the other day... It's almost like you were speaking 03:33
to me on a subconscious level
stickster That's OK for formal docs that need intense scrutiny 03:33
Sparks Okay, let's keep it on the wiki 03:33
Sparks and do some linking 03:33
zoglesby it would be helpful for other to add stuff, we are bound to forget someones project 03:34
* Sparks makes a note to blog about it 03:34
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Sparks anything else on this? 03:36
Sparks okay... last thing 03:36
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Go over task table 03:36
Sparks I want to make this task table more comprehensive and complete. 03:37
Sparks right now we have task lists and tables all over the place and they aren't being 03:37
updated
Sparks Please take a look at the table and update it if you have something on there. 03:37
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Sparks Anyone have any questions? 03:38
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#fedora-meeting
Sparks Okay, does anyone have anything else about anything? 03:39
stickster heh 03:39
mchua Sparks: I'm also trying (now that I've read through a BZ tutorial) the "what if we 03:39
used the BZ project-tracking component" experiment
mchua on the theory that it may be easier to keep up with one bz instance than with N 03:40
separate wiki tables (either that or I'll just form the habit of actually using
bookmarks)
Sparks That's an idea 03:40
mchua and was curious if anyone had any thoughts on the notion (do people not like keeping 03:40
tasks in bz? have wikitables worked really, really well before?)
Sparks Maybe if we turned "nag" on in BZ it would be better. 03:41
mchua what would that do? autoemail you when tickets update? 03:42
Sparks I think it emails you weekly with tasks that you have open 03:43
mchua Ooh. Handy. 03:43
Sparks Yeah 03:43
* stickster wonders who gets lined up against the wall and shot first when every Red Hat 03:44
engineer sees 328 new BZ emails every Monday morning
stickster Thankfully, I'm remote. But there are a lot of people in the Westford office that 03:44
I like, and would miss!
Sparks stickster: I think it's a summary if I remember correctly 03:44
stickster o_O 03:44
stickster Can such a feature be opt-in? 03:45
Sparks I think you get a single email, weekly, with a list of your current tickets 03:45
Sparks I don't remember 03:45
stickster mchua: I'm in favor of simplify 03:46
stickster See right there? I could have typed "simplicity" but "simplify" was SHORTER. 03:46
zoglesby lol 03:46
stickster Historically we had a tough time getting Docs people to dig BZ 03:47
stickster But this is a very different Docs group these days. 03:47
ricky If you're thinking bugzilla for task tracking, have you looked at trac? 03:47
stickster ricky: I think the idea was that if other people are already filing docs bugs in 03:47
BZ, what about tracking there too.
zoglesby we have a trac instance for every doc on fh.o 03:47
stickster Yeah, and that could be disabled and people diverted to BZ if we like 03:48
ricky Ah. Is the trac instance usually linked from the doc? 03:48
stickster Not yet 03:48
* mchua notes that based on http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.20/html/whining.html and 03:49
http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/tip/en/html/groups.html, it seems like people can opt-in to bz
whining. attempting now.
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Sparks mchua: Let's finish this conversation over in #fedora-docs 03:50
* mchua nods 03:50
Sparks Okay, anything else before we spill over into hour three? 03:50
Sparks 5 03:51
Sparks 4 03:51
Sparks 3 03:51
Sparks 2 03:51
Sparks 1 03:51
Sparks Thanks everyone for coming! 03:51
Sparks </meeting> 03:51
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