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Sparks #startmeeting 20:00
Sparks #meetingtopic Docs Meeting 20:00
fedbot Meeting started Thu Jun 18 00:03:00 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. 20:00
fedbot Information about MeetBot at , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link 20:00
Sparks #topic Agenda: Docs_Project_meetings 20:00
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:00
radsy oooh, that's cool 20:01
Sparks Roll Call 20:01
* Sparks is here 20:01
* radsy is here 20:01
* jjmcd would like to clear by 0100Z 20:02
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-!- rudi [n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-e63492226f2688bc] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03
* ianweller is sorta kind here maybe 20:03
* rudi is here 20:03
Sparks jjmcd: me too 20:03
jjmcd Japanese Game Show? 20:03
Sparks jjmcd: Yes 20:03
jjmcd  ;-) 20:03
* kgs wonders if visitors introduce themselves 20:05
Sparks sure! 20:05
Sparks Okay, let's get started... 20:05
Sparks #topic Meeting procedures 20:05
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Meeting procedures (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:05
Sparks You may have noticed that we have a new bot in the room with us taking notes. Fedbot is a new bot that automates some 20:06
channel maintenance for the OPs but also has some real nifty meeting commands as well. You can read more about this bot at
* quaid is here now 20:06
-!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:06
Sparks To get the most out of this bot we should learn to use the following commands: 20:06
Sparks info - Add an info item to the minutes. People should liberally use this for important things they say, so that they can be 20:06
logged in the minutes.
Sparks action - Document an action item in the minutes. Include any nicknames in the line, and the item will be assigned to them. 20:06
(nicknames are case-sensitive)
Sparks idea - Add an idea to the minutes. 20:06
Sparks help - Add a "Call for Help" to the minutes. Use this command when you need to recruit someone to do a task. 20:06
(Counter-intuitively, this doesn't provide help on the bot)
Sparks link - Add a link to the meeting minutes. The link should be the first non-command on the line, other commentary after the 20:06
link is OK. Links beginning with http:// and a few other protocols are automatically detected.
Sparks All commands start with a # so you have to use that (i.e. #idea). 20:06
* Sparks pauses for any query... 20:06
quaid what does the result look like? 20:06
* zoglesby is here 20:07
quaid I've seen a log before, but it was just bold faced stuff 20:07
* nirik notes he will in the next few days be getting it setup to log to a fedoraproject machine and run from zodbot. 20:07
Sparks quaid: I don't know. I guess we'll see 20:07
quaid ah, Ok 20:07
nirik output looks like: 20:07
quaid so it's somewhat data capture for now? we don't have it auto-generating logs for mailing lists, etc yet? 20:07
quaid ah! 20:08
Sparks Hmmm... 20:08
Sparks Yeah, that's going to take some getting used to. 20:08
quaid ok, much better, thanks; I'd only seen a straight IRC log generation 20:08
nirik not yet, but I am working with upstream and he's been fixing things like mad. ;) 20:09
nirik if anyone has suggestions/changes/thoughts, feel free to ping me with them and I will pass them on. 20:09
Sparks nirik: I'll probably have some for you in an hour. 20:09
nirik sounds good. ;) 20:09
Sparks Okay... 20:10
-!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:10
Sparks I'd also like to start using Meeting Protocols ( for 20:10
our meetings. I think it will help keep the momentum up and we won't waste time.
Sparks Basically, all you have to do is follow these simple instructions: 20:10
Sparks 1. Please watch what others are doing and do not interrupt 20:10
Sparks 2. If you have a question, type "?" 20:10
Sparks 3. If you need to speak, type "!" 20:10
Sparks 4. If you're done speaking, type "eof" 20:10
Sparks 5. If you agree, type "+1" 20:10
Sparks Any questions or comments? 20:11
quaid hmmm 20:11
quaid I won't say no personally, but 20:11
quaid I've found those to be most helpful where the common language 20:11
quaid is not the first language spoken of participants. 20:11
quaid so, it would be a good practice to welcome non-native English speakers 20:12
quaid but it does interrupt flow 20:12
quaid <eof> 20:12
ianweller +1 20:12
Sparks Well, we seem to take a while typing things we want to say and I'm not sure if I'm waiting for someone to respond or not. 20:12
radsy +1 20:13
ianweller (oh by the way i was +1ing quaid) 20:13
quaid Sparks: I do like eof as a convention, yeah 20:13
quaid it's a kindness 20:13
Sparks I'm not looking for strict adherence... but just for folks to keep in mind if they want to say something so I know they are 20:14
typing something
Sparks Okay, anyone have anything else to say before we move on to the REAL important stuff? 20:15
radsy no 20:16
rudi no <eof> 20:16
jjmcd ^Z 20:16
Sparks #topic FAD SELF 2009 After action report 20:16
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FAD SELF 2009 After action report (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:16
Sparks We had a wonderful time at the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after SELF in Clemson. We had a couple of participants that 20:16
remotely attended the session and six people who were physically in Clemson.
Sparks Everyone should have received the final "notes" from the FAD. 20:17
Sparks Has everyone had a change to look over the notes? 20:17
Sparks And does anyone have any questions about the FAD? 20:17
jjmcd  ? 20:17
Sparks jjmcd: Yes 20:17
jjmcd Do we have a plan to get names attached to those action items not taken? 20:18
Sparks jjmcd: Not as of yet. But we should. If you want to take something then go for it. 20:19
jjmcd  ! 20:19
Sparks Oh I see this going badly 20:19
Sparks jjmcd: yes? 20:19
jjmcd We should also take poelcat's suggestion to use that list and the retrospective list as a potential task list for new joiners 20:19
Sparks +1 20:19
jjmcd eof 20:20
zoglesby +1 20:20
quaid  ! Sparks: one option is to have people just ! and ? then speak, without being cleared by the moderator; that is, self-police 20:20
a bit :)
Sparks Yes... 20:20
Sparks I guess that's kinda what I meant. 20:20
Sparks quaid: Thank you 20:20
jjmcd  ! 20:20
jjmcd Doesn't make a lot of diff when you type as slow as me 20:20
Sparks  :) 20:20
Sparks jjmcd: I'll try to put together a list of items to do from the FAD and let's see what we can get done. 20:21
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zoglesby  ? 20:21
uclugLee Greetings and salutations. 20:21
Sparks Yes Zach 20:21
zoglesby Did we get anywere with the calendar after the FAD? 20:22
Sparks zoglesby: Kinda... I want to talk to poelcat to see if he can help. 20:22
zoglesby I didn't see it in the notes, but we talked about it for a while 20:22
zoglesby ok 20:22
zoglesby eof 20:22
Sparks zoglesby: There is a calendaring program coming down the line 20:22
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Sparks Anything else for the FAD? 20:23
Sparks #topic Docs_decisions_for_F12 20:24
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs_decisions_for_F12 (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:24
Sparks jjmcd: Would you like to talk about this since you started the topic? 20:24
jjmcd Well I think we covered a lot Sunday 20:24
jjmcd We have some new ideas on RN's 20:25
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jjmcd Content, perhaps a totally new organization, I see some more ideas on f-d-l 20:25
jjmcd We have a better understanding on the l10n issues, as well as the codes (although no decisiosn there) 20:25
jjmcd Rudi has prempted the Publican question ;-)) 20:26
Sparks  :) 20:26
rudi  :D 20:26
jjmcd Still no real answer on homepage and how to actually present them 20:26
jjmcd I think we have some really good plans tho 20:26
jjmcd but we need to share them more widely before implementing 20:26
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jjmcd Not sure we are necessarily aware of the URQs 20:27
jjmcd eof 20:27
Sparks URQs? 20:27
jjmcd User Requirements 20:27
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Sparks Ahh 20:27
jjmcd <---- requirements geek 20:27
Sparks I think one thing that stickster had a good idea about was the different expectations... 20:27
Sparks by different users. One set wants the one page, with pictures, RNs while... 20:28
jjmcd Yes. I think the breaking down into different formats langs has some merit 20:28
Sparks the more techy group wants the 1000 page RNs with all the info. 20:28
jjmcd but that is a big change that probably negatively impacts someone 20:28
jjmcd Yes 20:28
jjmcd ALtho I still think that ALL the changes with just a link covers 95% of that 20:28
Sparks I want to talk with the Marketing folks about it more. 20:29
jjmcd as in the example I pointed to somewhere 20:29
jjmcd wait 20:30
jjmcd #link 20:30
jjmcd Did everyone get a look at that? 20:30
jjmcd highlight a few biggies and list all the rest 20:30
Sparks I didn't... Have now 20:31
jjmcd reduces translation and increases the data 20:31
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Sparks Good combinations 20:31
jjmcd THat way qnyone waiting for a feature/bugfix can see if its there 20:31
jjmcd Needless to say, the table is produced by a script 20:32
jjmcd Well, program 20:32
Sparks Cool 20:33
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Sparks Okay, anything else on the F12 discussion? 20:34
jjmcd I need more comments on wiki page tho, or here or list 20:34
* jjmcd will blog on ppl issues 20:34
Sparks Excellent. 20:34
Sparks Okay.... moving on... 20:34
Sparks #topic Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid 20:35
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Status on CC license 20:35
discussion. <--quaid (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
Sparks quaid: Do you have an update for us? 20:35
quaid ok 20:35
quaid I may cover what was said last week, but ... 20:35
quaid we want an all-clear from Content Services; it sounds good, waiting also to see mhideo's plans. 20:35
quaid and I guess I still owe a write-up to f-a-b? 20:36
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quaid yes, I do 20:36
quaid #action - quaid needs to send a "mother may we" email to f-a-b 20:36
Sparks  ? 20:37
Sparks When do you think we'll be able to change over? ETA? 20:37
quaid well, this covers wiki content, we should be consensus seeking v. demanding :) 20:37
quaid no ETA, guess I need to articulate an actual plan with dates and stuffnow 20:37
quaid #action - quaid needs to specify an action plan around relicensing 20:37
quaid so, really ... no change from last week afair :/ 20:38
Sparks Okay... At least we are up to date. 20:38
Sparks Anyone have anything else? 20:39
Sparks #topic Shared open-source style guide 20:39
kgs thank you for taking the lead here -- it sets a good example for other projects considering this stuff 20:39
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [ Shared 20:39
open-source style guide] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting)
Sparks Okay... I think stickster asked me to add this to the agenda... 20:40
Sparks but I haven't really had time to look at it... 20:40
Sparks so I don't have anything to say about it, yet. 20:40
Sparks Would anyone like to say anything about it? 20:41
zoglesby  ? 20:41
Sparks Go ahead Zach. 20:41
zoglesby I am not sure the point, every group works diffrent, would a guide that basic be worth the time? 20:41
Sparks Yeah, I'm not sure of their end result. 20:42
* jjmcd had similar concerns 20:42
Sparks #action Sparks to find out more information on the shared style guide request. 20:42
zoglesby eof 20:43
Sparks Anyone else? 20:44
jjmcd I can see some benefit from shared development 20:44
jjmcd and idea generation but wonder whether the benefit is worth it since it wouild need to be so generic 20:44
jjmcd eof 20:44
Sparks Yeah, that's the problem I've been fighting... 20:45
Sparks I'll try to get more information for next week. 20:45
Sparks Anyone else? 20:45
Sparks #topic CMS Update <-- ke4qqq 20:45
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: CMS Update <-- ke4qqq (Meeting 20:45
topic: Docs Meeting)
Sparks Is ke4qqq here tonight? 20:46
Sparks I guess not. 20:46
zoglesby  ? 20:46
Sparks So I think all the modules have been packaged, now. 20:47
zoglesby How much stuff got packaged and is there a list of wats left? 20:47
zoglesby oh i can read! 20:47
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Sparks One of my packages got rejected due to a licensing issue so I'll be working with Simon to figure out what's going on. 20:47
ianweller there's no such thing as a "rejected" package 20:48
Sparks zoglesby: Yeah, there might be one left. Get with me afterwards and I'll check BZ. 20:48
ianweller just one that isn't approved yet 20:48
ianweller unless it's in ForbiddenItems 20:48
* ianweller heads back out 20:48
Sparks Yeah... what he said. 20:48
zoglesby what was the license? 20:48
Sparks CC-BY-SA 2.5 20:48
Sparks Which is not compatible with GPL 20:49
zoglesby did anyone contact the dev yet? 20:49
Sparks This project is being planned to be online within 60 days. We've asked poelcat to assist us with the PM. 20:50
Sparks zoglesby: Yeah, Simon (itbegins) is our developer contact. 20:50
Sparks Anyone have any other questions or comments? 20:51
Sparks #topic DocsProject wiki pages changes 20:51
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: DocsProject wiki pages changes (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:51
Sparks Okay, we haven't talked about this one in a while... 20:51
Sparks I think ianweller is planning on getting the wikibot working 20:52
Sparks this summer so hopefully we'll be able to let the bot 20:52
Sparks loose to do some of our work for us. 20:52
Sparks Anyone have any questions or comments? 20:53
Sparks #topic Calendar 20:54
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Calendar (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:54
Sparks Well, poelcat just sent me a message on #fedora-docs about an .ics file that he is working on for F12. 20:54
Sparks I'm sure he'll put stuff on there for us so that might be the short term solution... 20:55
Sparks until we get our calendaring solution. 20:55
Sparks #link 20:56
zoglesby +1 20:56
poelcat easiest way to get stuff into TJ/ics file is email with with: 20:56
poelcat 1) name of task (using action words/verbs) 20:56
poelcat 2) start date 20:56
poelcat 3) how many days it takes 20:56
poelcat 4) dependency on other tasks 20:56
Sparks Cool! 20:57
Sparks anyone have any questions or comments? 20:57
Sparks Thanks poelcat 20:57
* poelcat needs to publish draft of docs schedule for f12 so you all can pick it apart 20:57
poelcat will target fri or monday 20:57
Sparks poelcat: That will be great. 20:58
Sparks #topic All other business 20:58
-!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: All other business (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:58
Sparks Okay, due to the hour... Does anyone have anything they want to talk about? 20:58
radsy  ! 20:58
Sparks radsy: Go ahead 20:59
radsy #link 20:59
is what i'm working on, for those interested in a look
radsy eof 20:59
Sparks radsy: Very cool. Do you need any additional resources? 20:59
radsy no 20:59
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Sparks Okay, anyone else? 21:00
perspectival I think I'll take this time to speak up 21:00
Sparks perspectival: Go ahead 21:00
perspectival I'm Silas and I'm going to be working on the Deployment Guide for F12 21:01
perspectival there is a new branch in svn 21:01
perspectival unfortunately that's about all I know at this point :-) but I did want to say hello and let you all know about it 21:01
quaid howdy 21:02
Sparks perspectival: How different in mission is the Deployment Guide from the Installation Guide? 21:02
perspectival So Greetings! 21:02
perspectival the deployment guide is different in that it's more of a system administration guide 21:02
Sparks perspectival: Excellent! Do you need any resources? 21:03
perspectival I will pass on that question until next time if you don't mind 21:03
perspectival still figuring out the way forward ;-) 21:03
Sparks perspectival: No problem! 21:03
perspectival I am accepting any and all hints and tips at this point though 21:03
perspectival am paying attention to fedora-docs list, etc. 21:03
perspectival <eof for now> 21:04
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Sparks Okay. 21:04
Sparks Anyone else? 21:04
Sparks Okay, I'm calling it a night then... 21:05
Sparks 5 21:05
Sparks 4 21:06
Sparks 3 21:06
Sparks 2 21:06
Sparks 1 21:06
Sparks #endmeeting 21:06
fedbot Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 01:08:31 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at . 21:06
fedbot Minutes: 21:06
fedbot Log: 21:06