QA/Meetings/20071114

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-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting (1500UTC)<a href="#t10:03" class="time">10:03</a>
wwoodsrdieter, nirik, mether, rmw, Lovechild: ping<a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a>
wwoodsand f13 / jeremy / other multi-diciplinary folks: also ping<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
rdieterhere (kinda sorta)<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
f13yo<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoodsrdieter: cool<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Schedule changes for F9<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoodsSo yes - I'm writing an email to fedora-test-list about the proposed changes<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoodsto make sure everyone's aware (there was brief mention of it last month but I still hear references to "test1" etc)<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoodsIs everyone aware of / cool with the propose changes/schedule?<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoodsthose are <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/DevelopmentChangesProposal">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/DevelopmentChangesProposal</a><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoodsand <a href="http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9-tasks-overview.html">http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9-tasks-overview.html</a><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoodsthe only thing I've found that I'm still unsure about is that the Alpha release is still two months after Final<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
f13wwoods: the Alpha was an idea to have /something/ that is known to at least be installable as a jump off point for the development cycle.<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
wwoodsright<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
f13but we don't care much about other than it installing and getting updates afterward, so we're not doing a blocking freeze for it.  it's just a named snapshot<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
f13(with a little extra time to make sure it happens)<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoodslike I said, in the past we've gottin (deserved) bad press for putting out a half-baked release that lacks most of the stuff promised<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoodsI think calling it "Alpha" and increasing awareness that test releases are just rawhide snapshots is good<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoodsbut also - sanity check - there's more time for rawhide development now than in previous cycles, right?<a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a>
f13yes<a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a>
f13there is no blocking freeze for test1, that adds a week~ there<a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a>
wwoodsnow that we're doing the early branching and such the devs actually get some time before F8 final to work on stuff<a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a>
f13plus add to that the amount of time we early branched and branched during F8 that added a month~<a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a>
wwoodsyeah, that's reasonable. I do think we're already seeing serious progress in f9 rawhide<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoodsa lot moreso than previous ones<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoodsas long as we believe that to be the intended effect of process changes and not just a happy fluke<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
rdieterfolks realize they can't wait (me included). :)<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoodsthen I'm happy relying on that<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
f13yeah<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
f13I do want to better deal with a month+ of buildup for that first rawhide build.<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
f13eventually I want to get to the piont where during teh final freeze, we're composing the release tree to a different location, and letting Rawhide continue on to the next release.<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoodsmy only other comment about the schedule: I'm gonna be doing family stuff the week of PR1, so I need someone to take the bug-herding hat while I'm gone<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoodsf13: that would be totally sweet.<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
f13We'll use mirror manager to do some fun redirects for us to try and capture most people for release testing,  you'd have to opt-out and into Rawhide again to get those bits.<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
f13wwoods: I don't think we can realistically get there for 9, but maybe !10<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoodsso we're planning on doing the repo shuffle to pin rawhide to the final release again?<a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a>
wwoods(I liked that a lot)<a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a>
f13yes, I liked that too<a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a>
f13we'll better plan it to avoid zomg no signed packages.<a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a>
wwoodscan you make sure that gets on the schedule and do an announcement so people know when it's coming<a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a>
f13yes<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoodsyeah, exactly<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoodsany other comments about the schedule changes? one less test release to test, yay<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
f13well, if we have a signing server and are automatically signing things with a key, that should take care of itself.<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
f13they'll at least have /a/ key.<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoodsrdieter: when is kde4 stuff landing? in time for F9Alpha?<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
f13wwoods: I'm pretty sure you're going to have one less arch to care about.<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
f13wwoods: but the tradeoff looks to be one more install method.<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
rdieterwwoods: we're about 35% there roughly now, should get most of it in by then (cross fingers)<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoodshere's hopin'<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoodssome QA-specific stuff to discuss<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoodsI don't think we're gonna create bugzilla versions for alpha/beta<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoodsthe reasoning is: Test Releases Are Rawhide Snapshots<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
f13srsly?<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
f13are we going to remove all the existing ones?<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoodsso report your dang bugs against 'rawhide'<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoodsI'd like to, yes<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoodsbut I may be a bit overzealous here<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
f13I'm on board if we remove the existing ones, otherwise we're just going to get a bunch of misfires.<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
f13(and people filing bugs about there being no version to file bugs against)<a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoodsI'm amazed at how many bugs we get filed against 'f6test3' still<a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a>
wwoodsseriously? f6test3?<a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a>
* wwoods shakes head<a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a>
* poelcat +1 to removing all the unneeded versions<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
f13wwoods: actually I think by some twist of fuckness, a brand new bugzilla user creating a new bug for Fedora gets f6test3 as the default version :/<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoodsf13: I think you're right<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoodsbut I don't know why<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
f13wwoods: we really need to make sure that brand new users get the right version, but I don't know how to fix that<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoodsI'll follow up with dkl about that<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoodsprobably assume (latest stable) unless their browser tells us otherwise<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
wwoodsfurther about rawhide: I've proposed changing the 'devel' version to 'rawhide'<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
wwoodswhich I think is only sensible<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
poelcatwwoods: are you going to talk to him about removing the extra versions too? I don't mind working with dkl to merge everything<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
wwoodsbut there's a further proposal which suggests that we name releases at the *start* of the cycle and use that name instead of "rawhide"<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
f13wwoods: I don't think that should effect bugzilla<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
wwoodsso we'd call it "werewolf" as a codename up until release, and then the name would change to F8<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
f13wwoods: the only reasonable rational I heard for naming early was so that artwork and such can be made to fit before deadlines.<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
wwoodsright, it just makes it a little confusing as there'd be no "werewolf" version in bz<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
rdieterand marketing...<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
f13we may also use the codename as the pre-release staging directory as well.<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
poelcatbut then you have to keep monkeying with bugzilla<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
wwoodswell, it helps with marketing/branding as well<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
f13but I'm still very much in the 'file it against Rawhide' camp.<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
poelcatcouldn't the bugzilla start page help this?<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
poelcator is that project dead?<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
rdietermaybe use bz label something like f8-werewolf ?  then, no renaming is required.<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoodswell, we want to avoid the ambiguity of having "f8" and "f8-werewolf"<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
rdieterok<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoodsit's possible we could segment off rawhide this way<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoodshave rawhide (moonshine), rawhide (werewolf), ...<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
f13eeew<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
wwoodsbut.. yeah<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
wwoodspoelcat: bugzilla start page is still a good idea - we even have bugz.fedoraproject.org<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
wwoodswhich, while having a silly name, has useful redirects<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoodse.g. try <a href="http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/yelp">http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/yelp</a><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
rdieterkewl<a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a>
wwoodsso having a front page on that site (rather than having it redirect straight to regular bz) could be useful<a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a>
Lovechildoh that will come in handy.. still not optimal but way better than what I do currently<a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a>
wwoodsthat also gives you links to the bodhi/koji/pkgdb pages for that package<a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a>
wwoodsit's pretty nice<a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a>
wwoodsheh<a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a>
wwoodsanyway I think probably playing silly games with bugzilla versions and rawhide is not the most useful thing<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
wwoodsmore useful would just be spending more time triaging and recruiting/training more triagers<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
poelcatwwoods: i'll file a ticket with dkl's group to merge all the versions and change devel to rawhide... posting to fedora-devel first<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
wwoodspoelcat: awesome, that'd be great. thank you.<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
* poelcat was also wondering if we should put some bug days on the schedule<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
rdieteryes!<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
poelcatplan them in advance<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoodsoh sure!<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoodswhat day of the week would be best?<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
poelcatwhich would give us incentive to clean up bugzilla, get start page tweaked, and other howto file bugs docs cleaned up<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
Lovechildsounds way to sane.. everyone knows that frantically crying in the last minute is a far superior plan<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoodsand who can cover .eu / .au<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoodsby the way, the F8-thisweek bug link is in the topic for #fedora-qa: <a href="http://rdr.to/gc">http://rdr.to/gc</a><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
LovechildI'm .eu citizen, I guess that means I volunteer<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
rdieterfrantic_crying: +1 :)<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
wwoods(407 new bugs on F8 this week.. weeeeee)<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Bug Days<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
rdieterspin: more users -> more feedback/bugs.  yay<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
wwoodsindeed!<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
Lovechildyeah could be worse... could be zero bugs<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
poelcatfridays?<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
wwoodsa lot of these bugs are simple things - nvidia (CLOSED CANTFIX), stuff on the CommonBugs page<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
wwoodsbad CD burns, etc<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
poelcatnot ever friday, but is friday a good day?<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
wwoodsFriday's OK with me<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
poelcathow about first one on 30-NOV ?<a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a>
wwoodsI should do some metrics on bug reporting and figure out whether people do them over the weekend or during the week more<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
wwoodsI should *also* figure out a way to keep score on bug triaging etc. like GNOME does<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
f13Since we do snapshot releases on Fridays, do you want to do them on Monday?<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
wwoodsf13: that's sensible<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
poelcatthen we smack down the easy stuff right away<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
f13gives people a chance to pick up the latest snapshot over the weekend and verify<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
Lovechildf13: that seems like a good idea, give people the weekend to download and burn the snapshot - if they hit bad bugs we are there to triage on mondays<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoodsyeah, my gut feeling is that bug reporting goes up on the weekends (and triaging goes down)<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
poelcaton the other hand friday i could pay more attention than on friday<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
poelcatthan on monday<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
wwoodsso Monday makes some sense<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
Lovechildunless you want to dedicate your weekend to Fedora as well :)<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
poelcatboth sounds interesting, but probably too ambitious<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
wwoodslet's start with Mondays<a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a>
wwoodsand if it really starts to pick up steam we can talk about adding Friday<a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a>
Lovechildmaybe this needs a nice little page telling people to download the snapshot over the weekend and please join us on IRC monday?<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoodsbug triage is an art, but it can be taught.. we need to create some teaching tools and stuff<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
* poelcat votes for starting on 19-NOV<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
lmackenwwoods: bugday!<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
poelcatwwoods: all we need is wiki pages to start<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoodspoelcat: indeed<a href="#t10:36" class="time">10:36</a>
poelcatwwoods: if you can send me the existing page URLs I'll include with my post about changing the versions in bz<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
Lovechildand a nice call for help on -test<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
poelcatand announce bug day at the same time<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoodspoelcat: existing pages for what, triage stuff? there's bugzapper stuff in the wiki<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoodslong-untouched<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
* wwoods sad about that, but making amends<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoodsLovechild: definitely<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
poelcatwwoods: whatever makes sense to point people to in order to get started with bug triage... read up in advance<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoodsokay, quick vote: Bug Days on Mondays, starting 19-nov-2007<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
f13+1<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
lmacken+1<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
rdieter+1<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
Lovechild+1<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
* wwoods +1, obvy<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
wwoodsokay, if no one is opposed..?<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
poelcat+1<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
wwoodsdecided: Bug Days on Mondays, starting 19-nov-2007<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
lmackenI think the coolest part about our last big bug day was that we had incentives/prizes<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
wwoodspoelcat: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers</a> is a good place to start<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
wwoodslmacken: which one was that?<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
Lovechildlmacken: bribing people.. excellent idea<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
lmackenThe first one I think?  Jack put it on.<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
lmacken2 years ago<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
poelcatwwoods: what IRC channel will we hold it in?<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
wwoodsBut how did you measure performance?<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
wwoodspoelcat: #fedora-qa, I think<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
lmackenbz activity :)<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
lmackenI just pinged jack to try and get more details<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
lmackenhopefully we can get him on board with it again<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
wwoodsyeah, I'm curious about how you weight scoring for closing bugs vs. reassigning things to the proper places vs. other triaging stuff<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
wwoodsI'd love to have an automated system watching that stuff and keeping score<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoodsonce we get pretty good at keeping score we can start giving prizes<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoodsbut then you have incentive for people to game the system and blecch<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
wwoodsanyway, I'd rather have that problem to worry about than the "nobody triages bugs and everything sucks" problem<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
wwoodsoh, quick diversion<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
Lovechildwell I suspect it will be easy to just make a decision as to bug zapper of the week manually for the first while<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | fedora-qa-list<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
wwoodsLovechild: ooh, good point<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
Lovechildall this statistics crap is likely overkill for the first long time<a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a>
wwoodsI'm proposing (officially) that we close fedora-qa-list and move qa discussion to -test-list or -devel-list as appropriate<a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a>
wwoodsthe spam:post ratio for -qa-list is something like 15:1<a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a>
* wwoods filters all the spam. it ain't pretty<a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a>
lmackenI think we should kill the test update notifications as well.. or at least throw them somewhere other than test-list<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
poelcatlmacken: +1<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
lmackenI'm planning on teaching bodhi about RSS feeds this week<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoodsyeah, agreed<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
Lovechildwe can reopen the list if it's grows or the qa stuff drowns on the other lists?<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoodsLovechild: absolutely<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoodsmostly it would just save me some maintenance/admin time<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
poelcatwwoods: can you simply disable it so it can be brought back if desired?<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
LovechildI'm some what worried about the trade off in terms of requiring qa people to read high volume lists<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoodspoelcat: that's a good thought, I'll look into that<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoodswell, I think qa people should definitely be on -test-list<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoods-devel-list is optional IMHO<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoodsif we can get the notifications off -test-list that would be even better<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
LovechildI'm on both and keeping on top of it all is rather a big task<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoodsLovechild: agreed<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoodsI skim the headers now and then but I generally don't read them in detail<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoodsFWN is a great help in this regard<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
LovechildI imagine people with less time to waste than me would be dissuaded from doing QA by it<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
f13oh yeah, does anybody think having testing update notifications go to test-list is a good idea?<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoodsLovechild: do you think it would be reasonable if you were just on -test-list and the automatic notifications were moved?<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
f13I think we can get them fed oout via rss instead.<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
lmackenRSS + anonymous feedback in bodhi<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
wwoodsf13: I think having them go *somewhere* is a good idea, but -test-list isn't the place<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
poelcatsend them to fedora-qa-list<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
poelcat;-)<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
wwoodsha<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
wwoodsyeah maybe I'll lock it down so only automated stuff can mail -qa-list<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
Lovechildthe update messages really should go on -test so people can easily comment on them.. not that they seem to do so.<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
wwoodsand we can move the notifications there<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
Lovechildbut it's probably no worse than asking people to subscribe to a second mailing list.. using -test and -devel does have the upside of having greater visibility<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
wwoodsyeah, I think the update notifications are just noise<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
wwoodsesp. if we have anonymous commenting in bodhi<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
f13yeah, I think the feedback needs to be done in bodhi, not the list<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
lmackenupdate feedback in bodhi, bugs in bugzilla.. then what is left for test-list?  questions?<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
wwoodsquestions, discussion, planning<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
lmackenah gotcha.. yeah, esp if qa-list is going away<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
LovechildI like -test for early warning, basic bug confirmation<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
wwoodsthe *useful* stuff that goes on in -test-list these days<a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a>
wwoodsyeah<a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a>
wwoodsit's a good place for testers to be like "have you guys seen this?"<a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a>
wwoodsa future feature for triaging is going to be adding tags to the whiteboard field<a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a>
wwoodsso we can have an auto-updated page of Current Hot Bugs / Common Dupes / etc<a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a>
Lovechildalso having a list keeps the social aspect of QA intact which is always nice<a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a>
wwoodsyeah, the social aspect is important<a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a>
wwoodsso, yes, we'll keep -test-list as the qa discussion group<a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a>
LovechildI mean I wouldn't be doing QA if it wasn't fun and wwoods didn't boost my massively inflated ego occasionally<a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a>
wwoodsmove update notifications to -qa-list or drop entirely?<a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a>
lmacken+1 for dropping<a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a>
Lovechildcouldn't they be just an rss feed - seems more like the thing to do, encourage mildly couragous testers to run with updates-testing enabled<a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a>
wwoodsLovechild: oh, there's no question about the RSS feed<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
lmackenRSS and bodhi --testable / bodhi -s testing should suffice<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
wwoodsmaybe we'll drop the update notifications when we get RSS support in bodhi?<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
lmackensounds good<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
lmackenI'm planning to do that hopefully today or tomorrow<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
lmackenalong with making it public<a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a>
wwoodsmaking bodhi public? rad. how long 'til anon commenting? or.. actually I guess we don't *need* that immediately<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
wwoodswhat group(s) do you need to be in to comment in bodhi?<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
lmackenthere's a TurboGears captcha widget that i'm going to try and use<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
wwoodsthat'd be a good way of tracking who's in QA<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
wwoodsah nice<a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a>
wwoodsyeah, allowing anon commentary would be very good<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
lmackenand bodhi keeps people in the loop as well.. if you've commented on an update, you'll be notified of all other comments/changes<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
wwoodsokay, so: shut -qa-list and stop update notifications on -test-list once we have RSS support in bodhi<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
f13wwoods: sounds like a great Trac ticket set 9:<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
f13(:<a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a>
f13wwoods: we have a rel-eng Trac now, filing a ticket for making those things happen (minus the email list shut down) would be awesome.<a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a>
wwoodscool, will do<a href="#t10:58" class="time">10:58</a>
wwoodsOh! crud. I'm out of town next week - grandmother's memorial / thanksgiving<a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a>
wwoodsso I won't be around Monday for Bug Day<a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a>
LovechildI'm sure we can cover for you<a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a>
poelcatwwoods: i'll be around<a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a>
wwoodsawesome<a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a>
wwoodsI'll try to pop in if I get some internets but it's not likely<a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a>
wwoodsokay. anything else?<a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Open Floor<a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a>
lmacken<a href="https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/wiki/CLI#Viewingwhattestingupdatesyouhaveinstalled">https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/wiki/CLI#Viewingwhattestingupdatesyouhaveinstalled</a><a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a>
lmackenwe should encourage people to use it! :)<a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a>
wwoodsOkay then! I'm gonna mail -test-list about development changes and Bug Day, and file a ticket about killing notifications on -test-list<a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a>
lmackeneasy way to see what you could be testing, and provide useful information to us<a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a>
wwoodspoelcat was going to talk to dkl about getting rid of Fntestn versions<a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a>
wwoods(and we're not gonna use 'em in the future)<a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a>
wwoodsbug days are Mondays, starting Nov. 19<a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a>
wwoodswe're closing -qa-list<a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a>
wwoodsI think that's all the decisions we made?<a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a>
f13wwoods: fwiw I think you need to run your bugzilla changes through FESCo<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
wwoodsoh, and I guess we're officially endorsing the proposed changes?<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
wwoodsf13: okay then<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
poelcati think periodic bug days, but not every monday<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
Lovechildindeed.. oh and can we finally get that ics calendar for qa activity?<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
poelcatLovechild: yes, I can do those in taskjuggler<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
poelcatbut I need items for the schedule :)<a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a>
wwoodsI think I had a google calendar at some point<a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a>
wwoodspoelcat: meetings on Wednesdays at 1500UTC, Bug Days.. let's say every other Monday, for now?<a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a>
poelcatLovechild: <a href="http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9.ics">http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9.ics</a><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a>
poelcatwwoods: i was thinking announce one at a time to create some buzz<a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a>
wwoodsand then there's things like freezes and snapshot releases<a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a>
wwoodspoelcat: nice. yeah, let's do that.<a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a>
wwoodsOkay then, I don't want to take any more of your time, so.. thanks folks!<a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a>

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