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Meeting Summary

  • F9 Installation test plan review
  • review of tier#1 items
  • liveCD testing ... no action items yet
  • discussion around i18n anaconda testing and potential dogtail integration
  • installation interoperability test discussion (aka dual-booting)
  • fedora alpha defect review (need url?)

Action Items


jlaska| Greetings ... any fedora-qa folks out there?<a href="#t10:01:45" class="time">10:01</a>
bo09| bo09, i'm here ... :)<a href="#t10:02:14" class="time">10:02</a>
* | jmn hides<a href="#t10:02:30" class="time">10:02</a>
jlaska| don't know if wwoods has landed yet<a href="#t10:02:49" class="time">10:02</a>
--> | J5 [n=quintice@nat/redhat/x-b1242b48185fbf72] has joined #fedora-meeting<a href="#t10:03:24" class="time">10:03</a>
EvilBob| is it that time already?<a href="#t10:03:26" class="time">10:03</a>
jlaska| sure is :)<a href="#t10:03:37" class="time">10:03</a>
--- | gregdek_gone is now known as gregdek<a href="#t10:04:09" class="time">10:04</a>
jlaska| There were some general f9 alpha topics that wwoods wanted to talk about ... but I also wanted to spend a few cycles soliciting feedback on the f9 install test plan<a href="#t10:04:26" class="time">10:04</a>
EvilBob| Good thing they canceled my kid's school or I would still be sleeping<a href="#t10:04:26" class="time">10:04</a>
bo09| jlaska, i like it (f9 install test plan)<a href="#t10:04:48" class="time">10:04</a>
jlaska| heh ... you and me both :)<a href="#t10:04:59" class="time">10:04</a>
jlaska| a draft of the test plan is available at <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:08:12" class="time">10:08</a>
clumens| yo.<a href="#t10:08:40" class="time">10:08</a>
jlaska| welcome chris (applause)<a href="#t10:08:50" class="time">10:08</a>
jlaska| there are 2 main testing groups in the test plan ... 1) functional (aka new features), and 2) non-functional (all the rest ... regression)<a href="#t10:09:50" class="time">10:09</a>
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jlaska| any objections if we first poke at the non-functional section (<a href=""></a>)?<a href="#t10:11:06" class="time">10:11</a>
* | wwoods will continue to let jlaska lead<a href="#t10:11:08" class="time">10:11</a>
jlaska| Greetings wwoods!<a href="#t10:11:37" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoods| So, the first question I got was: why are ia64/s390 on there?<a href="#t10:11:49" class="time">10:11</a>
jlaska| wwoods: I'd like to prune it down to what we ship *now* <a href="#t10:12:12" class="time">10:12</a>
jlaska| so that's i386, ppc, and x86_64 right?<a href="#t10:12:18" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoods| yep<a href="#t10:12:22" class="time">10:12</a>
f13| put parens around ppc.<a href="#t10:12:33" class="time">10:12</a>
jlaska| not sure how yet to reflect the secondary arch stuff <a href="#t10:12:34" class="time">10:12</a>
f13| secondary arch stuff is really the responsibility of the secondary arch teams<a href="#t10:12:46" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoods| yeah, as for secondary arches, the point is that testing is their responsibility<a href="#t10:12:51" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoods| ("they" being the secondary arch team/maintainers)<a href="#t10:13:15" class="time">10:13</a>
jlaska| perhaps as those projects mature the test plan can be cloned and adjusted to fit<a href="#t10:13:16" class="time">10:13</a>
f13| yeah, we're providing guidelines and templates, they can make use of them if they choose to.<a href="#t10:13:45" class="time">10:13</a>
wwoods| exactly<a href="#t10:13:49" class="time">10:13</a>
jlaska| good point<a href="#t10:13:54" class="time">10:13</a>
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wwoods| but yeah. the Fedora test plan for primary arches is a reference implementation that the secondary arches should aim to duplicate<a href="#t10:14:29" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoods| just like everything else, really<a href="#t10:14:35" class="time">10:14</a>
jlaska| from a high-level break down of the sections in anaconda ... how's the fit?<a href="#t10:15:16" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| e.g ...<a href="#t10:15:17" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| - BootMethods<a href="#t10:15:19" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| - InstallSource<a href="#t10:15:19" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| - KickstartMethods<a href="#t10:15:19" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| - Partitioning<a href="#t10:15:19" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| - PackageSets<a href="#t10:15:19" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| - StorageDevices<a href="#t10:15:19" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| ... <a href="#t10:15:19" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska|  <a href="#t10:15:20" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| what's missing<a href="#t10:15:29" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoods| I think we need some tiering of the sub-tests<a href="#t10:15:50" class="time">10:15</a>
jlaska| prioritization?<a href="#t10:16:01" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoods| e.g. partitioning without swap is less important than making sure /usr raid6 works<a href="#t10:16:38" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoods| or, er<a href="#t10:16:41" class="time">10:16</a>
jlaska| right on<a href="#t10:16:44" class="time">10:16</a>
jlaska| <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:16:46" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoods| both of those are less important than, y'know, swap on LVM, or ext3 root<a href="#t10:16:56" class="time">10:16</a>
jlaska|  ^^^ a early stab at outlining priority (aka a tiered approach)<a href="#t10:16:59" class="time">10:16</a>
wwoods| sensible. but it doesn't identify which specific cases fall into which tiers<a href="#t10:17:34" class="time">10:17</a>
jlaska| seems like two views of the testing would be helpful ... by functional group ... and tier<a href="#t10:17:34" class="time">10:17</a>
wwoods| (or, alternately, the cases don't identify which tier they belong to)<a href="#t10:17:44" class="time">10:17</a>
jlaska| wwoods: no it doesn't yet ... <a href="#t10:17:44" class="time">10:17</a>
wwoods| but yeah, that's.. future work<a href="#t10:17:58" class="time">10:17</a>
clumens| i18n testing!!!!!!<a href="#t10:18:01" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoods| there's Institutional Knowledge of what's very important and what's less important<a href="#t10:18:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoods| it'd be good to write that stuff down<a href="#t10:18:25" class="time">10:18</a>
jlaska| wwoods: a first pass at tier#1 was mentioned on the list  <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:18:29" class="time">10:18</a>
jlaska| I'd love to get some more feedback on that ... from there I can easily organize/group by tier<a href="#t10:18:53" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoods| right on. will do.<a href="#t10:19:32" class="time">10:19</a>
bo09| jlaska, i like the test priority description too, because cases may migrate over time<a href="#t10:20:01" class="time">10:20</a>
jlaska| an aside ... I wish our moin supported tags/categories for pages (I could easily tag the testcases and have a moin macro to ease display)<a href="#t10:20:02" class="time">10:20</a>
f13| they do...<a href="#t10:20:14" class="time">10:20</a>
f13| CategoryFoo<a href="#t10:20:20" class="time">10:20</a>
jlaska| f13: moin does?  sweet<a href="#t10:20:33" class="time">10:20</a>
f13| we don't use it much, but it's there.<a href="#t10:20:46" class="time">10:20</a>
wwoods| The caveat is.. doesn't using a Category make everything megaslow?<a href="#t10:20:54" class="time">10:20</a>
jlaska| bo09: definitely ... what fits for F9 may not fit for F12<a href="#t10:21:00" class="time">10:21</a>
f13| wwoods: querying to get the category pages can be slow yes.<a href="#t10:21:18" class="time">10:21</a>
jlaska| f13: wwoods: ah ... good to know ... will need to test that out first then<a href="#t10:21:35" class="time">10:21</a>
bo09| jlaska, right, if we have the description we have the pseudo-algorithm for classifying the tests :0<a href="#t10:21:37" class="time">10:21</a>
bo09| jlaska, otherwise "tier1" means 5 different things to 5 people ... :\<a href="#t10:22:11" class="time">10:22</a>
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jlaska| wwoods: do the general tier#1 descriptions match what you have in mind for tier#1 anaconda testing?<a href="#t10:23:35" class="time">10:23</a>
jlaska| <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:23:37" class="time">10:23</a>
jlaska| ^^^ test priority <a href="#t10:23:44" class="time">10:23</a>
clumens| jlaska: it sounds good to me.<a href="#t10:23:56" class="time">10:23</a>
clumens| though we did not yet define where livecds fit into the tiered structure<a href="#t10:24:16" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoods| wider package sets might be in tier1<a href="#t10:24:21" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoods| and, yes<a href="#t10:24:22" class="time">10:24</a>
jlaska| clumens: cool ... so basically defaults and the most common boot+install_sources<a href="#t10:24:29" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoods| this is the installation test plan and I'm not sure if LiveCDs get their own dang plan or what<a href="#t10:24:39" class="time">10:24</a>
jlaska| wwoods: wider?  e.g. everything ... or a selection of comps.xml groups?<a href="#t10:24:40" class="time">10:24</a>
clumens| jlaska: if tier1 is the alpha and we're just trying to make sure it works for most people, yup<a href="#t10:24:48" class="time">10:24</a>
clumens| wwoods: problem is, livecds are now a complicated installation method on their own (hello, ntfs resizing)<a href="#t10:25:06" class="time">10:25</a>
f13| wwoods: what are you looking to accomplish with a "wider" package set?<a href="#t10:25:17" class="time">10:25</a>
clumens| file conflicts?<a href="#t10:25:33" class="time">10:25</a>
f13| changing media?<a href="#t10:25:41" class="time">10:25</a>
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f13| blowing up memory?<a href="#t10:25:52" class="time">10:25</a>
f13| just curious<a href="#t10:25:58" class="time">10:25</a>
wwoods| jlaska: a selection of other common groups. e.g. KDE<a href="#t10:25:59" class="time">10:25</a>
clumens| those are all good things.<a href="#t10:26:01" class="time">10:26</a>
jlaska| file conflicts and deps are what we typically target with the old-skool @everything (no longer applies I know)<a href="#t10:26:12" class="time">10:26</a>
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f13| jlaska: we can check for those outside of an install<a href="#t10:26:30" class="time">10:26</a>
wwoods| "common install media" will probably be defined as.. what. http, nfs, DVD?<a href="#t10:26:31" class="time">10:26</a>
jlaska| f13: that'd be my preference<a href="#t10:26:37" class="time">10:26</a>
wwoods| and tier2 will be.. ftp, nfsiso, CD set?<a href="#t10:26:45" class="time">10:26</a>
jlaska| f13: repoclosure etc...<a href="#t10:26:47" class="time">10:26</a>
f13| jlaska: doing it during install is just going to slow things down, although I think it would test the code paths for when that happens during install.<a href="#t10:26:49" class="time">10:26</a>
clumens| i'd say http and dvd.  nfs gets enough testing here.<a href="#t10:26:51" class="time">10:26</a>
wwoods| wait. we don't do exploded-tree-on-NFS anymore do we?<a href="#t10:26:54" class="time">10:26</a>
clumens| wwoods: uh... what?<a href="#t10:27:08" class="time">10:27</a>
f13| wwoods: yeah we do, it's exploaded tree on filesystem we don't do<a href="#t10:27:10" class="time">10:27</a>
jlaska| wwoods: we don't doo loop back http and ftp anymore<a href="#t10:27:11" class="time">10:27</a>
jlaska| wwoods: I need to drop those<a href="#t10:27:20" class="time">10:27</a>
f13| Common to me would be http, DVD/Split media, and NFS tree.<a href="#t10:27:36" class="time">10:27</a>
clumens| f13: i'd like to test the failure cases on that stuff at least once, maybe it doesn't need to go into the test plan.<a href="#t10:27:37" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoods| ohhhh that's right<a href="#t10:27:41" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoods| sorry<a href="#t10:27:42" class="time">10:27</a>
clumens| f13: but tested as a new "feature" at least this time.<a href="#t10:27:51" class="time">10:27</a>
f13| less common (in the real world) is ftp, hdd, nfs-iso<a href="#t10:27:56" class="time">10:27</a>
f13| clumens: right, and we can construct contrived tests for that<a href="#t10:28:08" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoods| so: it's hdd-iso now. hddtree is gone.<a href="#t10:28:16" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoods| right?<a href="#t10:28:18" class="time">10:28</a>
f13| eg point at a repo with obvious conflicts/broken deps<a href="#t10:28:23" class="time">10:28</a>
clumens| hddtree was never there.  http/ftp iso is gone.<a href="#t10:28:33" class="time">10:28</a>
jlaska| clumens: we've often used NFS iso installs to "simulate" physical media installs<a href="#t10:28:34" class="time">10:28</a>
clumens| jlaska: true.<a href="#t10:28:42" class="time">10:28</a>
jlaska| (which doesn't test booting the media)<a href="#t10:28:44" class="time">10:28</a>
jlaska| just the structure of the install source<a href="#t10:28:51" class="time">10:28</a>
f13| nor reading the media<a href="#t10:28:54" class="time">10:28</a>
jlaska| right<a href="#t10:28:57" class="time">10:28</a>
f13| nor prompting the user for the media<a href="#t10:28:58" class="time">10:28</a>
jlaska| f13: exactly ... so we still call that case out seperately (boot form physical media)<a href="#t10:29:26" class="time">10:29</a>
f13| yes<a href="#t10:29:33" class="time">10:29</a>
jlaska| f13: NFS ISO runs through the prompting checks<a href="#t10:29:36" class="time">10:29</a>
bo09| f13, right, those are manual tests anyway :)<a href="#t10:29:40" class="time">10:29</a>
jlaska| f13: at least it posts the disc swaps to the logs ... but clumens can confirm the code paths<a href="#t10:29:50" class="time">10:29</a>
f13| jlaska: erm, it doesn't say you'll need X cds, nor does it prompt the user to switch cds<a href="#t10:29:56" class="time">10:29</a>
jlaska| f13: right ... so there's some overlap ... but it's not a replacement<a href="#t10:30:09" class="time">10:30</a>
clumens| it only kind of tests the same stuff, yeah.  it tests the switching but not the interactive part.<a href="#t10:30:20" class="time">10:30</a>
clumens| worth doing both<a href="#t10:30:26" class="time">10:30</a>
jlaska| definitely<a href="#t10:30:33" class="time">10:30</a>
wwoods| so, to clarify on why we bother with tiers. tier1 is the stuff we'd want run daily; tier2 is stuff we would want to do, say, weekly<a href="#t10:30:40" class="time">10:30</a>
wwoods| tier3 needs to be done during each freeze for release<a href="#t10:30:54" class="time">10:30</a>
wwoods| oh! language testing.<a href="#t10:30:59" class="time">10:30</a>
jlaska| :)<a href="#t10:31:03" class="time">10:31</a>
f13| wwoods: well, 'daily' is hard unless we're doing full composes every dady<a href="#t10:31:06" class="time">10:31</a>
wwoods| wait clumens said i18n, duh<a href="#t10:31:07" class="time">10:31</a>
f13| the stuff you can test daily are nfs tree, http, ftp.<a href="#t10:31:20" class="time">10:31</a>
wwoods| also true! but that's why I'm skeptical of making media installs tier1<a href="#t10:31:27" class="time">10:31</a>
f13| everything else has to wait for a full compose.<a href="#t10:31:36" class="time">10:31</a>
jlaska| wwoods: automated physical media tests are a possibility (with help from dogtail and libvirt)<a href="#t10:31:48" class="time">10:31</a>
clumens| I18N TESTING!!!!1<a href="#t10:31:51" class="time">10:31</a>
jlaska| clumens: would you like to talk about i18n testing :))<a href="#t10:32:07" class="time">10:32</a>
clumens| heh<a href="#t10:32:19" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoods| but yeah - glezos and I talked specifically about i18n testing during fudcon<a href="#t10:32:34" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoods| it'd be really excellent to make sure we had (at least) rescuecd.img available a couple of weeks before string freeze<a href="#t10:33:31" class="time">10:33</a>
jlaska| what does i18n testing mean?<a href="#t10:33:49" class="time">10:33</a>
bo09| clumens, for i18n, is it as simple as identifying the languages, and then having people install using them?<a href="#t10:34:00" class="time">10:34</a>
jlaska| confirming the language, confirming the images are constructed properly<a href="#t10:34:00" class="time">10:34</a>
jlaska| bogle works?<a href="#t10:34:04" class="time">10:34</a>
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wwoods| running through the installer in any language it supports would be a basic test case, I'd think<a href="#t10:34:17" class="time">10:34</a>
bo09| clumens, or are you thinking more structured testing?<a href="#t10:34:22" class="time">10:34</a>
jlaska| welcome atodorov!<a href="#t10:34:31" class="time">10:34</a>
clumens| jlaska: bogl is dead dead dead<a href="#t10:34:36" class="time">10:34</a>
jlaska| yay!!!<a href="#t10:34:39" class="time">10:34</a>
clumens| bo09: we need to test in as many languages as possible, verify that there aren't any weirdo tracebacks, right fonts being used, right keyboard being used, and that the system afterwards comes up in the right stuff.<a href="#t10:35:12" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoods| how much of that gets tested by doing a kickstart install with lang=XXX<a href="#t10:36:17" class="time">10:36</a>
clumens| well you don't get to type with kickstart, but otherwise it's probably just fine.<a href="#t10:36:36" class="time">10:36</a>
f13| targetting those tricky languages that have more than 2 cases helps.<a href="#t10:36:37" class="time">10:36</a>
wwoods| we can run through all languages automatically that way, but that'll miss some of the finer points, I'm sure<a href="#t10:36:38" class="time">10:36</a>
wwoods| f13: ha. yes.<a href="#t10:36:47" class="time">10:36</a>
clumens| problem is, you won't know if the font is right unless it's very obviously wrong.<a href="#t10:37:00" class="time">10:37</a>
jlaska| clumens: historically ... we used the kickstart *interactive* directive to walk through a specific graphical lang install<a href="#t10:37:09" class="time">10:37</a>
f13| thought<a href="#t10:37:13" class="time">10:37</a>
clumens| jlaska: that works too<a href="#t10:37:17" class="time">10:37</a>
jlaska| clumens: just to catch any tracebacks<a href="#t10:37:19" class="time">10:37</a>
jlaska| clumens: but we didn't verify the keyboard works, or the strings "looked right"<a href="#t10:37:32" class="time">10:37</a>
jlaska| f13: shoot<a href="#t10:37:36" class="time">10:37</a>
f13| weekly or so we run through installs in other languages, and we post a screenshot of each screen to somewhere easy to get to.  We then ask our translation team to verify that things look right ornot.<a href="#t10:37:45" class="time">10:37</a>
f13| then they don't have to do the installations themselves, they just have to look at screenshots<a href="#t10:37:57" class="time">10:37</a>
jlaska| f13: there is screenshot support in anaconda (iirc) ... and that's another use case for dogtail<a href="#t10:38:05" class="time">10:38</a>
f13| yeah, methodology doesn't concern me much, just results (:<a href="#t10:38:20" class="time">10:38</a>
clumens| f13: interesting.  now we just need to figure out how to do keyboards.<a href="#t10:38:24" class="time">10:38</a>
jlaska| clumens: is the automatic screenshot dumping (katzj wrote a while back iirc) still there?<a href="#t10:38:48" class="time">10:38</a>
jlaska| was requested by the translation folks iirc<a href="#t10:38:55" class="time">10:38</a>
f13| clumens: a live image that lets you pop through keyboard layouts posted frequently for translators to use?<a href="#t10:39:13" class="time">10:39</a>
clumens| jlaska: the automatic stuff is still there though i haven't tested it.  the manual works though.  so auto is probably fine.<a href="#t10:39:17" class="time">10:39</a>
f13| small enough to be easy to mirror/download, but just enough to test that layouts are working correctly?<a href="#t10:39:30" class="time">10:39</a>
clumens| hmmmm<a href="#t10:39:54" class="time">10:39</a>
jlaska| clumens: re i18n ... are there any considerations as far as what stage#1 or stage#2 supports?<a href="#t10:40:07" class="time">10:40</a>
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clumens| jlaska: stage1 doesn't support any CJKish languages<a href="#t10:40:27" class="time">10:40</a>
clumens| f13: that's crazy enough that it just might work.<a href="#t10:40:47" class="time">10:40</a>
atodorov| clumens: i've tested the screenshot functionality in RHEL 5 and it worked iirc<a href="#t10:40:52" class="time">10:40</a>
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f13| clumens: I do what I can.<a href="#t10:41:34" class="time">10:41</a>
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wwoods| but, wait. isn't the rescuecd, you know, just stage1 and stage2?<a href="#t10:41:42" class="time">10:41</a>
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f13| wwoods: yes and no<a href="#t10:42:38" class="time">10:42</a>
f13| wwoods: rescue still uses stage1 to get things started, it just opportunisticaly uses stage2 on the media for later things<a href="#t10:43:00" class="time">10:43</a>
clumens| atodorov: oh, that is good news.<a href="#t10:43:09" class="time">10:43</a>
f13| same thing full media would do if you booted with 'askmethod'<a href="#t10:43:16" class="time">10:43</a>
* | wwoods brb<a href="#t10:43:31" class="time">10:43</a>
skvidal| clumens: what do I have to pass to anaconda to tell it 'install from the pkgs downloaded in /var/cache/yum/anaconda-upgrade'?<a href="#t10:43:40" class="time">10:43</a>
jlaska| skvidal: kickstart repo line?<a href="#t10:43:59" class="time">10:43</a>
skvidal| whoops, wrong channel, sorry for interrupting a meeting<a href="#t10:44:18" class="time">10:44</a>
clumens| skvidal: the preupgrade stuff?  nothing's gone in for that.<a href="#t10:44:21" class="time">10:44</a>
jlaska| ah<a href="#t10:44:26" class="time">10:44</a>
jlaska| clumens: <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:44:48" class="time">10:44</a>
jlaska| is that up-to-date with regard to anaconda F9 feature status?<a href="#t10:45:03" class="time">10:45</a>
atodorov| jlaska: wrt encrypted block devices : yes<a href="#t10:46:00" class="time">10:46</a>
clumens| it's not up-to-date in terms of what's done and what needs to go in.<a href="#t10:46:04" class="time">10:46</a>
clumens| want i should work on that?<a href="#t10:48:05" class="time">10:48</a>
jlaska| clumens: doesn't seem to "out of wack" ... but before we do a deep dive on tests for the features it might not be a bad idea<a href="#t10:48:54" class="time">10:48</a>
clumens| oh so autoscreenshot won't work on stage1 or text mode, of course.<a href="#t10:49:27" class="time">10:49</a>
clumens| jlaska: okay<a href="#t10:49:29" class="time">10:49</a>
jlaska| clumens: atodorov was going to look into the enc block device test plan ... so as long as that's good <a href="#t10:49:35" class="time">10:49</a>
jlaska| clumens: capturing console logs _might_ help there<a href="#t10:51:23" class="time">10:51</a>
f13| autoscreenshot may not, but screenshots of the kvm window running it would.<a href="#t10:51:50" class="time">10:51</a>
f13| (or the vnc window)<a href="#t10:51:53" class="time">10:51</a>
jlaska| clumens: as far as capturing i18n screenshots (tui/gui) for later review ... that doesn't get us 100% as there are many conditional pop-up's <a href="#t10:52:01" class="time">10:52</a>
* | clumens makes a note on his gigantic TODO list<a href="#t10:52:07" class="time">10:52</a>
f13| jlaska: I think it gets us a lot farther than what we have now.<a href="#t10:52:21" class="time">10:52</a>
jlaska|  ^^^ iSCSI, zFCP, dmraid ... yum repo edit dialog etc.. etc..<a href="#t10:52:23" class="time">10:52</a>
jlaska| f13: true<a href="#t10:52:25" class="time">10:52</a>
clumens| jlaska: we won't catch all the untranslated strings, true, but we will get a good enough sample to know if the font is right.<a href="#t10:52:32" class="time">10:52</a>
f13| jlaska: doing an install is a big commitment<a href="#t10:52:33" class="time">10:52</a>
f13| and with dogtail we can cause some of those popups to happen<a href="#t10:52:44" class="time">10:52</a>
jlaska| f13: you're tellin' me :D<a href="#t10:52:45" class="time">10:52</a>
atodorov| jlaska: I was trying to create a dogtail script that will just show all .glade based windows<a href="#t10:52:57" class="time">10:52</a>
wwoods| so someone needs to write a dogtail script that at least pops up... yes<a href="#t10:53:07" class="time">10:53</a>
atodorov| something like that may work if done properly<a href="#t10:53:09" class="time">10:53</a>
clumens| and as long as we display information from places like package description, etc. we will avoid all those bizarre utf8 python tracebacks we saw in f8.<a href="#t10:53:12" class="time">10:53</a>
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wwoods| that would be an awesome thing to have<a href="#t10:55:08" class="time">10:55</a>
jlaska| atodorov: that would be really useful!!<a href="#t10:55:21" class="time">10:55</a>
wwoods| jlaska: we need to write up that snake-logger server-side plugin<a href="#t10:55:31" class="time">10:55</a>
jlaska| wwoods: definitely ... <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:56:02" class="time">10:56</a>
J5| <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:56:08" class="time">10:56</a>
atodorov| jlaska: iirc there were some non standard widgets defined in glade files and not everything was showing up, but still that approach may work for GUI installs<a href="#t10:56:30" class="time">10:56</a>
clumens| atodorov: now if only we had more things using glade.  heh<a href="#t10:56:43" class="time">10:56</a>
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wwoods| snake-logger gets us really really close to basic automated testing. and then we can extend that to run dogtail scripts and pull out the screenshots as logs<a href="#t10:56:55" class="time">10:56</a>
jlaska| wwoods: snake-install --virt   and snake-logger support  complete the circle <a href="#t10:57:17" class="time">10:57</a>
J5| <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:57:35" class="time">10:57</a>
jlaska| boom! (spoken as john madden) ... you can create a private test "lab" <a href="#t10:57:47" class="time">10:57</a>
poelcat| are we going to discuss any of the test blockers for alpha?<a href="#t10:57:47" class="time">10:57</a>
jlaska| poelcat: good point <a href="#t10:58:01" class="time">10:58</a>
jlaska| any other thoughts/comments/concerns around the install test plan for F9?<a href="#t10:58:12" class="time">10:58</a>
jlaska| I think we've got a great set of topics+discussion for this week ... I'll post summary and logs to the list<a href="#t10:58:45" class="time">10:58</a>
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wwoods| let's try running through it with the current compose - questions / comments that come up can be discussed on -test-list and we'll revisit next week<a href="#t10:58:57" class="time">10:58</a>
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poelcat| this bug is blocking test automation execution: <a href=""></a><a href="#t10:59:23" class="time">10:59</a>
buggbot| Bug 378641: low, low, ---, David Cantrell, ASSIGNED , SIGABRT when trying to get an IP address in loader<a href="#t10:59:24" class="time">10:59</a>
wwoods| poelcat: think that's fixed<a href="#t10:59:31" class="time">10:59</a>
wwoods| WFM anyway<a href="#t10:59:34" class="time">10:59</a>
wwoods| anyone confirmed that bug in the 20080122 tree (or later)?<a href="#t10:59:55" class="time">10:59</a>
poelcat| yes see my last comment :)<a href="#t11:00:08" class="time">11:00</a>
wwoods| bug 428880 should also be fixed<a href="#t11:00:10" class="time">11:00</a>
clumens| oh that reminds me, he said the re-dhcp kickstart stuff should be fixed now.<a href="#t11:00:10" class="time">11:00</a>
buggbot| Bug <a href=""></a> low, low, ---, Lubomir Kundrak, NEW , system-config-rootpassword's firstboot module traces back<a href="#t11:00:11" class="time">11:00</a>
wwoods| esandeen and ted ts'o have a fix in the works for bug 428893<a href="#t11:00:39" class="time">11:00</a>
buggbot| Bug <a href=""></a> low, low, ---, Eric Sandeen, ASSIGNED , forced fsck and reboot on first boot of newly-installed system<a href="#t11:00:40" class="time">11:00</a>
wwoods| I'm really skeptical about that report. I did x86_64 installs yesterday with ip=dhcp and they worked fine<a href="#t11:01:38" class="time">11:01</a>
wwoods| i386 as well<a href="#t11:01:48" class="time">11:01</a>
f13| 428880 may be fixed.<a href="#t11:02:28" class="time">11:02</a>
wwoods| I don't know anything about bug 428070<a href="#t11:03:14" class="time">11:03</a>
buggbot| Bug <a href=""></a> medium, medium, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, MODIFIED , please update Japanese font to be VLGothic<a href="#t11:03:15" class="time">11:03</a>
clumens| should be fixed<a href="#t11:03:53" class="time">11:03</a>
clumens| in MODIFIED until the reporter can verify<a href="#t11:04:32" class="time">11:04</a>
wwoods| it'd be nice if he left instructions on verifying, so someone else could verify. but whatevs!<a href="#t11:05:18" class="time">11:05</a>
poelcat| f13: is 378641 fixed for you?<a href="#t11:05:27" class="time">11:05</a>
wwoods| lastly, bug 429713 - I know nothing about this<a href="#t11:05:43" class="time">11:05</a>
buggbot| Bug <a href=""></a> low, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEW , dmraid devices not seen as dmraid<a href="#t11:05:44" class="time">11:05</a>
wwoods| oh fuckhell. nv dmraid still sucks a butt<a href="#t11:06:08" class="time">11:06</a>
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wwoods| f13: can you drive that bug? I still have no test hardware and the people who would be involved in fixing it are probably in that office<a href="#t11:07:14" class="time">11:07</a>
wwoods| I'm incredibly sick of trying to deal with dmraid bugs with no dmraid hardware to test on<a href="#t11:07:37" class="time">11:07</a>
f13| wwoods: I can try, but that person is still dealing with getting other things ready<a href="#t11:08:07" class="time">11:08</a>
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poelcat| wwoods: what kind of hardware do you need?<a href="#t11:09:24" class="time">11:09</a>
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poelcat| maybe a post for help to fedora-test-list?<a href="#t11:09:43" class="time">11:09</a>
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wwoods| poelcat: something with dmraid in. preferably something that also has vmx bits.<a href="#t11:09:57" class="time">11:09</a>
wwoods| poelcat: yeah yeah I've tried that during previous release cycles. it only gets me so far.<a href="#t11:10:07" class="time">11:10</a>
wwoods| I need to actually know how the stuff works.<a href="#t11:10:15" class="time">11:10</a>
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poelcat| seems to me we should be driving more issues like this to the lists and growing community vs. you trying to do it all :)<a href="#t11:10:23" class="time">11:10</a>
jlaska| wwoods: would you be up for stubbing a test case(s) for dmraid?<a href="#t11:10:36" class="time">11:10</a>
jlaska| e.g. ... <a href=""></a> or something similar<a href="#t11:10:57" class="time">11:10</a>
wwoods| no, I would not, because I don't know how the stupid stuff *works*<a href="#t11:11:14" class="time">11:11</a>
wwoods| you might as well ask me to write up a token ring test case<a href="#t11:11:23" class="time">11:11</a>
jlaska| wwoods: you worked at IBM before the migration completed ... I think you'd be able to help me with that case :)<a href="#t11:11:54" class="time">11:11</a>
wwoods| heh. I was lucky enough to never deal with it<a href="#t11:12:15" class="time">11:12</a>
kanarip| wwoods, would you need a box with sil3114 for example?<a href="#t11:12:28" class="time">11:12</a>
ldimaggi_| wwoods, Sorry - where's the test plan again?  ;-)<a href="#t11:12:46" class="time">11:12</a>
jlaska| ldimaggi_: the f9 install plan ... or the dmraid plan?<a href="#t11:12:59" class="time">11:12</a>
ldimaggi_| jlaska, The install plan<a href="#t11:13:08" class="time">11:13</a>
jlaska| <a href=""></a><a href="#t11:13:09" class="time">11:13</a>
* | jlaska enjoys having 2 cut'n'paste buffers<a href="#t11:13:24" class="time">11:13</a>
wwoods| kanarip: I guess? For the purposes of most bug reports I'd want nvidia dmraid<a href="#t11:13:37" class="time">11:13</a>
wwoods| that's the thing that is most commonly reported against<a href="#t11:13:46" class="time">11:13</a>
kanarip| hmm, i have a box with nvidia dmraid but it doesn't have the necessary hard drives<a href="#t11:14:08" class="time">11:14</a>
jlaska| wwoods: that's good ... helps narrow the focus on the type of dmraid hardware causing the majority of the pain<a href="#t11:14:19" class="time">11:14</a>
wwoods| I should just put in an order for new hardware<a href="#t11:14:25" class="time">11:14</a>
wwoods| haven't gotten any in a year<a href="#t11:14:31" class="time">11:14</a>
kanarip| i could however let you nuke a sil3114 machine if you'd like that<a href="#t11:14:33" class="time">11:14</a>
jlaska| wwoods: is the anaconda partitioning screen intended to behave differently when using dmraid?<a href="#t11:14:45" class="time">11:14</a>
wwoods| jlaska: again: I have no idea<a href="#t11:14:53" class="time">11:14</a>
jlaska| er.. perhaps clumens might know <a href="#t11:14:56" class="time">11:14</a>
wwoods| I have never touched any hardware with dmraid<a href="#t11:14:58" class="time">11:14</a>
clumens| i uh... don't even know what dmraid is.<a href="#t11:15:05" class="time">11:15</a>
wwoods| yeah see<a href="#t11:15:10" class="time">11:15</a>
clumens| what is it, some kind of bus?<a href="#t11:15:15" class="time">11:15</a>
wwoods| it's fake raid<a href="#t11:15:20" class="time">11:15</a>
jlaska| iirc ... dmraid is an option in the same dialog that presents iSCSI and zFCP devices <a href="#t11:15:25" class="time">11:15</a>
* | clumens realizes that joke is way less funny in this context, since it certainly could be a bus<a href="#t11:15:36" class="time">11:15</a>
wwoods| where the BIOS says "hey pretend these devices are RAIDed together okay??"<a href="#t11:15:48" class="time">11:15</a>
wwoods| and the kernel driver goes "oh uh okay" and does all the RAID stuff in software<a href="#t11:15:59" class="time">11:15</a>
wwoods| so it looks the same as hardware RAID, from userspace<a href="#t11:16:08" class="time">11:16</a>
clumens| jlaska: there's a dmraid radio button on the advanced dialog, but i couldn't tell that it actually does anything<a href="#t11:16:18" class="time">11:16</a>
wwoods| but from kernelspace it's visible as separate disks<a href="#t11:16:24" class="time">11:16</a>
wwoods| obviously we need to write up a purchase order for testing stuff<a href="#t11:16:52" class="time">11:16</a>
wwoods| MSDN subscription so we can legally test NTFS partition resizing against actual Windows installations<a href="#t11:17:11" class="time">11:17</a>
wwoods| some machines with nvidia dmraid hardware and multiple disks<a href="#t11:17:27" class="time">11:17</a>
f13| wwoods: the pain with that is that MSDN is completely restricted to the owner, and the owner can't be Red Hat.<a href="#t11:17:29" class="time">11:17</a>
f13| wwoods: so it would appear that you would get one, and only you could use it.<a href="#t11:17:38" class="time">11:17</a>
wwoods| right, so we get one for me and one for some other designated tester in BOS<a href="#t11:17:51" class="time">11:17</a>
wwoods| still better than nothing<a href="#t11:17:58" class="time">11:17</a>
jds2001| i thought there was a multi-user license for it?<a href="#t11:18:02" class="time">11:18</a>
f13| yeah, it's just points of failure.<a href="#t11:18:07" class="time">11:18</a>
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jds2001| i could be wrong, i dont do msdn :)<a href="#t11:18:15" class="time">11:18</a>
f13| jds2001: there might be, with astronomical pricing attached<a href="#t11:18:20" class="time">11:18</a>
wwoods| I think the multi-user license is multi-kilobucks extra<a href="#t11:18:25" class="time">11:18</a>
wwoods| 's like $700 for a single person<a href="#t11:18:37" class="time">11:18</a>
poelcat| why can't we engage people in the community that already have MSDN subscriptions?<a href="#t11:18:59" class="time">11:18</a>
wwoods| or, you know, legal copies of XP?<a href="#t11:19:22" class="time">11:19</a>
poelcat| that too<a href="#t11:19:41" class="time">11:19</a>
wwoods| we can. and probably should. but it's still something we ought to be able to test ourselves.<a href="#t11:19:43" class="time">11:19</a>
f13| poelcat: we can, but often by the time they get around to it, it's too late.<a href="#t11:19:47" class="time">11:19</a>
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poelcat| so we need to start earlier :)<a href="#t11:20:45" class="time">11:20</a>
jds2001| well any new machines that you buy (depending) would probably come w/xp or vista licenses, no?<a href="#t11:21:20" class="time">11:21</a>
* | jds2001 thinking out loud - i dunno if there is licensing to wrangle with using those for test platforms<a href="#t11:21:57" class="time">11:21</a>
jds2001| so kill two birds with one stone - buy the nvidia dmraid machine(s) w/windows licenses.<a href="#t11:22:20" class="time">11:22</a>
jlaska| what's the problem we are trying to solve with windows licensing?  Testing installation (partitioning, resize) on systems previously installed with Windows $VERSION?<a href="#t11:22:45" class="time">11:22</a>
f13| jlaska: yes<a href="#t11:22:54" class="time">11:22</a>
f13| making sure we still handle setting up the bootloader right, resizing, etc..<a href="#t11:23:24" class="time">11:23</a>
jlaska| okay dump question ... can we mimic that scenario?<a href="#t11:23:35" class="time">11:23</a>
f13| I do it from time to time with OSX and that is still working, but it's a more simple task.<a href="#t11:23:43" class="time">11:23</a>
f13| jlaska: we can mimic a bit, but without the actual OS we won't hit the actual problems that users will.<a href="#t11:23:57" class="time">11:23</a>
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jlaska| it seems if we knew what testing (roughly) we wanted to accomplish ... from there we could decide on a mechanism to execute (fake partition tables ... real OS ... other) ... then use this info to support reaching out for community help ... or a purchasing decision<a href="#t11:26:22" class="time">11:26</a>
poelcat| and once we lay it out we have to follow up on it every week to see how we are doing and keep people engaged<a href="#t11:27:55" class="time">11:27</a>
f13| quite hontestly I want to replicate real world scenarios.<a href="#t11:28:01" class="time">11:28</a>
f13| an actual XP or Vista installed, (almost like it was shipped from the vendor) and an attempt at doing a Fedora install, complete with resizing the existing windows.<a href="#t11:28:26" class="time">11:28</a>
jlaska| f13: so do I<a href="#t11:28:26" class="time">11:28</a>
f13| and then rebooting back into windows to see what happens there<a href="#t11:28:34" class="time">11:28</a>
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jlaska| f13: boom! perfect test case <a href="#t11:28:51" class="time">11:28</a>
jlaska| f13: it probably differs from XP to Vista as well ... and we care about any other products<a href="#t11:30:18" class="time">11:30</a>
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jlaska| perhaps an interoperability (or co-habitation ... who knows) series of tests <a href="#t11:31:35" class="time">11:31</a>
f13| jlaska: yeah, we'd have to do one with XP, one with Vista, maybe one with 2000, but that's stretching it<a href="#t11:31:48" class="time">11:31</a>
jlaska| install permutations with OSX, Windows ... OpenSuse? etc...<a href="#t11:31:49" class="time">11:31</a>
f13| linux with linux would be somewhat interesting.<a href="#t11:33:11" class="time">11:33</a>
f13| and yes, OSX, except we can't resize there.<a href="#t11:33:20" class="time">11:33</a>
f13| thankfully I have two intel based OSX capable machines in my cube<a href="#t11:33:29" class="time">11:33</a>
jlaska| fedora + RHEL<a href="#t11:33:30" class="time">11:33</a>
jlaska| f9 + f8 <a href="#t11:33:35" class="time">11:33</a>
wwoods| we can't resize hfs+?<a href="#t11:33:38" class="time">11:33</a>
clumens| you'll run into filesystem labelling problems i bet<a href="#t11:33:44" class="time">11:33</a>
wwoods| well, we can suggest that people use Boot Camp for that<a href="#t11:33:48" class="time">11:33</a>
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f13| right<a href="#t11:34:14" class="time">11:34</a>
jlaska| there's another use case to test<a href="#t11:35:40" class="time">11:35</a>
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wwoods| I've actually tested both of those recently. As a side note: XP is a huge PITA to install.<a href="#t11:36:11" class="time">11:36</a>
jlaska| wwoods: when you say tested ... were there any other items you looked for other than what f13 mentioned?<a href="#t11:38:52" class="time">11:38</a>
jlaska| e.g. (disk recogniztion, bootloader setup, resizing, reboot)?<a href="#t11:39:18" class="time">11:39</a>
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wwoods| yeah, that was about it<a href="#t11:40:57" class="time">11:40</a>
wwoods| anaconda recognizes the disk, anaconda resizes the disk, anaconda writes proper grub entry for the other OS.. complete install, boot Fedora, then boot other OS<a href="#t11:41:32" class="time">11:41</a>
wwoods| make sure other OS runs as expected<a href="#t11:41:37" class="time">11:41</a>
wwoods| (it's OK if the other system wants to check its filesystems - in fact, that should be expected)<a href="#t11:41:53" class="time">11:41</a>
jlaska| wwoods: would you be interested in stubbing some of this out on the wiki? ... I can help fill in the blanks with test cases etc...<a href="#t11:42:51" class="time">11:42</a>
wwoods| sure? is there a template or something?<a href="#t11:43:11" class="time">11:43</a>
jlaska| wwoods: we can cut it a few ways ... a test plan for this effort ... or just a list of test cases for now<a href="#t11:44:51" class="time">11:44</a>
jlaska| wwoods: for the test cases ... just add a new table to <a href=""></a><a href="#t11:45:18" class="time">11:45</a>
jlaska| wwoods: if you want something a bit more formal ... the test plan route might be better ... I can setup a moin Template for that<a href="#t11:45:42" class="time">11:45</a>
jlaska| ... the test plan "feels" like a good final destination (a mini plan ... nothing super complex) .. but the test cases woudl be a great start<a href="#t11:46:09" class="time">11:46</a>
jlaska| wwoods: what are your thoughts?<a href="#t11:46:22" class="time">11:46</a>
wwoods| sure, I'll add a new table and some cases<a href="#t11:46:37" class="time">11:46</a>
jlaska| wwoods: awesome, it'll be good to have that stuff identified<a href="#t11:47:08" class="time">11:47</a>
jlaska| wwoods: hit me up during the week if you like we can tag team some of that stuff<a href="#t11:47:30" class="time">11:47</a>
wwoods| sure<a href="#t11:47:38" class="time">11:47</a>
wwoods| okay, so there's another meeting at noon (the triage meeting of funtimes)<a href="#t11:47:50" class="time">11:47</a>
wwoods| any final topics we wanted to discuss?<a href="#t11:48:17" class="time">11:48</a>
jlaska| wwoods: if you're creating new cases ... I've got a moin template to help QA/TestCases/TestCaseTemplate<a href="#t11:48:26" class="time">11:48</a>
jlaska| wwoods: nothing from me ... thanks for the install talk!!!<a href="#t11:48:38" class="time">11:48</a>
f13| wwoods: I'm curious when we're going to have something to start filling out for Alpha<a href="#t11:49:56" class="time">11:49</a>
f13| 'cause I'm ready to do the spins<a href="#t11:50:02" class="time">11:50</a>
wwoods| well yeah<a href="#t11:51:31" class="time">11:51</a>
wwoods| should we do the TreeTestingTemplate matrix<a href="#t11:51:40" class="time">11:51</a>
wwoods| or do the new test cases cover all that?<a href="#t11:51:53" class="time">11:51</a>
f13| no idea<a href="#t11:52:06" class="time">11:52</a>
wwoods| I think probably our goal should be to have the new test plan cover it?<a href="#t11:52:07" class="time">11:52</a>
wwoods| jlaska?<a href="#t11:52:11" class="time">11:52</a>
f13| I just need to be pointed at the boxes to start filling in<a href="#t11:53:44" class="time">11:53</a>
wwoods| <a href=""></a> is the old matrix<a href="#t11:53:59" class="time">11:53</a>
wwoods| the new plan should supercede that<a href="#t11:54:13" class="time">11:54</a>
clumens| so are there any things i need to take action on?<a href="#t11:54:21" class="time">11:54</a>
wwoods| but I'm not sure if it does<a href="#t11:54:23" class="time">11:54</a>
wwoods| clumens: did any tasks fall out of that i18n discussion?<a href="#t11:55:03" class="time">11:55</a>
f13| clumens: fix all the bugs<a href="#t11:55:18" class="time">11:55</a>
clumens| wwoods: i wrote down some notes<a href="#t11:55:31" class="time">11:55</a>
wwoods| probably davej's RAID bug will end up going on the blocker list<a href="#t11:55:33" class="time">11:55</a>
clumens| his raid bug is likely fixed.<a href="#t11:55:44" class="time">11:55</a>
clumens| wait for it.<a href="#t11:55:45" class="time">11:55</a>
wwoods| 'kay<a href="#t11:56:01" class="time">11:56</a>
f13| as is the dmraid thing, or at least fixible soon<a href="#t11:56:17" class="time">11:56</a>
wwoods| rad.<a href="#t11:56:34" class="time">11:56</a>
clumens| nuts to this, i'm gonna merge the dogtail stuff.<a href="#t11:56:53" class="time">11:56</a>
wwoods| okay, uh.. the new test plan lacks upgrade cases, text mode cases..<a href="#t11:57:32" class="time">11:57</a>
wwoods| for Alpha, let's use the old TreeTestingTemplate<a href="#t11:57:41" class="time">11:57</a>
wwoods| but we'll write up Test Cases for each item in that matrix<a href="#t11:57:55" class="time">11:57</a>
f13| we can always migrate results to the new thing<a href="#t11:57:58" class="time">11:57</a>
wwoods| and add them to the Fedora Installation Test Plan<a href="#t11:58:12" class="time">11:58</a>
f13| k, just let me know when I can start filling in boxes.<a href="#t11:58:22" class="time">11:58</a>
wwoods| will do<a href="#t11:59:05" class="time">11:59</a>
jlaska| wwoods: I'd recommend test cases for now <a href="#t11:59:08" class="time">11:59</a>
wwoods| oh yeah?<a href="#t11:59:20" class="time">11:59</a>
wwoods| so.. convert all the items in the matrix to full test cases ASAP<a href="#t11:59:33" class="time">11:59</a>
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jds2001| triage meeting in one minute - is this conference room reserved? ;)<a href="#t11:59:42" class="time">11:59</a>
jlaska| after than ... anything can link to them (test plan(s))<a href="#t11:59:45" class="time">11:59</a>
wwoods| hmm<a href="#t11:59:49" class="time">11:59</a>
jlaska| test results<a href="#t11:59:55" class="time">11:59</a>
jlaska| etc...<a href="#t11:59:59" class="time">11:59</a>
clumens| and then once you guys have ks files to match those test cases, i can start running pykickstart against them.  yay!<a href="#t12:00:03" class="time">12:00</a>
jlaska| door prize!<a href="#t12:00:11" class="time">12:00</a>
wwoods| okay: we'll use the matrix this time, and add links for each item to the test case as they're created<a href="#t12:00:26" class="time">12:00</a>
wwoods| jds2001: nope, we're outta here<a href="#t12:01:03" class="time">12:01</a>
wwoods| well. not outta here. just finishing up<a href="#t12:01:09" class="time">12:01</a>
jds2001| hopefully not :)<a href="#t12:01:13" class="time">12:01</a>
snecklifter| jds2001: you logging this?<a href="#t12:01:15" class="time">12:01</a>
wwoods| f13: I'll let you know where there's boxes to check<a href="#t12:01:17" class="time">12:01</a>
jds2001| yes<a href="#t12:01:18" class="time">12:01</a>
f13| ok, running off to f00d<a href="#t12:01:32" class="time">12:01</a>
--- | jds2001 has changed the topic to: Fedora Bug Triage - 17:00UTC<a href="#t12:01:40" class="time">12:01</a>
poelcat| jlaska: will there be a repo of sorts for the kickstart files for snake that everyone could access?<a href="#t12:01:50" class="time">12:01</a>
--> | inode0 [n=inode0@fedora/inode0] has joined #fedora-meeting<a href="#t12:02:38" class="time">12:02</a>
poelcat| jlaska: should probably followup on #fedora-qa to get out of the way of the next meeting<a href="#t12:03:08" class="time">12:03</a>

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