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<tr id="tMay 21 11:00:51"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | init</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:00:51" class="time">May 21 11:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:00:56"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | f13 </td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:00:56" class="time">May 21 11:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:01:00"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 </td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:01:00" class="time">May 21 11:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:01:14"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | viking-ice *</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:01:14" class="time">May 21 11:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:01:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| howdy, all</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:01:29" class="time">May 21 11:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:02:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| oh nice, I finally saved my log settings properly</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:02:42" class="time">May 21 11:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:03:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| fedora-qa-20080521.log opened. whee</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:03:27" class="time">May 21 11:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:03:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| hehe i have this logged going back probably as far as you need.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:03:30" class="time">May 21 11:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:03:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| what I really wish we had was a meeting-logbot</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:03:44" class="time">May 21 11:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:03:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that I could give it 'start' and 'stop' commands</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:03:54" class="time">May 21 11:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:04:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and it'd irc2html the messages between those two things and put 'em up on some website</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:04:11" class="time">May 21 11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:04:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wwoods: put up a "bounty"</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:04:19" class="time">May 21 11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:04:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| Debian has such a bot...</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:04:24" class="time">May 21 11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:04:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| a bounty, eh</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:04:32" class="time">May 21 11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:04:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">ianweller</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| hmm. zodbot can probably be told to do that, there's a ChannelLogger plugin for supybot. just fyi</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:04:48" class="time">May 21 11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:04:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| ianweller: good to know!</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:04:55" class="time">May 21 11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:05:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| huh. nice.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:05:12" class="time">May 21 11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:05:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that'd be a really useful thing for this channel.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:05:21" class="time">May 21 11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:05:28"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | ricky is still waiting on packaging supybot for Fedoar :-)</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:05:28" class="time">May 21 11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:05:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">ricky</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| **Fedora</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:05:42" class="time">May 21 11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:06:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| /msg zodbot start meeting-id [password] .. or I guess it could just require a known, identified user</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:06:07" class="time">May 21 11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:06:09"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | kital has quit (Remote closed the connection)</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:06:09" class="time">May 21 11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:06:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| anyway</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:06:10" class="time">May 21 11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:06:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so, yes, QA meeting go</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:06:17" class="time">May 21 11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:06:31"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | sahak [n=sahak@pool-71-184-182-102.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:06:31" class="time">May 21 11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:06:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we're in the part of the cycle where we can actually do planning and development</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:06:33" class="time">May 21 11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:06:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and we are soon to have an intern (yay)</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:06:49" class="time">May 21 11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:07:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| YAY!</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:07:21" class="time">May 21 11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:07:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so we should talk tools for a bit</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:07:22" class="time">May 21 11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:07:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| is rawhide actually installable for them to do something? I haven't tried in the last few days</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:07:26" class="time">May 21 11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:07:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| well here's the thing - I'm not so sure I just want to throw her at installing rawhide every day</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:07:53" class="time">May 21 11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:08:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| (I haven't tried either, to be honest)</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:08:02" class="time">May 21 11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:08:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| jds2001: I haven't tried (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:08:44" class="time">May 21 11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:08:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| I was meaning to today</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:08:47" class="time">May 21 11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:08:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| I've been doing a looooot of F8->F9 upgrades</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:08:56" class="time">May 21 11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:09:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| for preupgrade stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:09:00" class="time">May 21 11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:09:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| really want to get that done-ish so I can move on for a while</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:09:31" class="time">May 21 11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:09:31"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 noticed that preupgrade does not use his local mirror</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:09:31" class="time">May 21 11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:09:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jds2001: it does if you edit releases.list</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:09:40" class="time">May 21 11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:09:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| so it's not using failovermethod=priority</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:09:46" class="time">May 21 11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:09:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| or if you set up mirrormanager</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:09:49" class="time">May 21 11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:09:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| it's using whatever yum's default is</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:09:58" class="time">May 21 11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:10:03"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 has mirrormanager setup</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:10:03" class="time">May 21 11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:10:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| which should be failovermethod=priority in F8</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:10:04" class="time">May 21 11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| check /etc/yum.conf, 'cuz it works fine here</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:10:24" class="time">May 21 11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:10:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| hmm, probably OT for here, but I'm seeing otherwise :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:10:26" class="time">May 21 11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:10:40"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 can try again tonight</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:10:40" class="time">May 21 11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:10:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| perhaps you have an out-of-date mirrorlist.txt in your preupgrade cache dir</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:10:51" class="time">May 21 11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| anyway</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:10:54" class="time">May 21 11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:12:08"><td class="nickchange" colspan="2">--- | tibbs_ is now known as tibbs|h</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:12:08" class="time">May 21 11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:12:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| my main priority for the F10 cycle is expanding the QA team and making it easier for new people to do useful testing</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:12:42" class="time">May 21 11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:12:43"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | mether [n=ask@fedora/mether] has joined #fedora-meeting</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:12:43" class="time">May 21 11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so we need stuff like: better testing docs. stickster has introduced me to one of the docs guys who's looking to help with that</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:13:36" class="time">May 21 11:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we also need stuff like: tools for tracking testing (and testers)</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:13:47" class="time">May 21 11:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| wwoods++ !!!1!!</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:14:03" class="time">May 21 11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| further, I think we need a QA group in FAS</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:14:34" class="time">May 21 11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:14:35"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | f13 throws rocks at stickster </td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:14:35" class="time">May 21 11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wwoods: or to take over the existing one?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:14:45" class="time">May 21 11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:14:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that works too</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:14:49" class="time">May 21 11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:15:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| just remove everybody and turn the reigns over to wwoods?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:15:14" class="time">May 21 11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:15:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| you can make me an admin for 'qa' and I can boot everyone from the group, I guess?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:15:16" class="time">May 21 11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:15:19"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | viking-ice likes then plan about "hostile" take over</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:15:19" class="time">May 21 11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:15:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that too</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:15:20" class="time">May 21 11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:15:25"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | SmootherFrOgZ has quit ("Leaving")</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:15:25" class="time">May 21 11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:16:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| but I want new contributors to have, y'know. a few choices about things to do, docs on how to do it, a list of people to ask when they have questions</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:16:04" class="time">May 21 11:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:16:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and I want *us* to have a way to see what people are up to</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:16:15" class="time">May 21 11:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:16:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| updates-testing (bodhi) and triage (bugzilla) already have pretty good docs and tools</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:16:49" class="time">May 21 11:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:16:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and we can get good metroids (heh, metrics) out of them</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:16:56" class="time">May 21 11:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:17:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| bugzilla metroids are harder - but I think that poelcat had some ideas around that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:17:28" class="time">May 21 11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:17:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| as for release testing - all we've got is the wiki matrix. which we can hand-count, but yuck</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:17:33" class="time">May 21 11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:17:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| any aspiring web developers to develop an app for it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:17:57" class="time">May 21 11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:18:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jds2001: cool - we should talk in more detail about that at some point, but I totally trust you guys to come up with some good ideas</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:18:02" class="time">May 21 11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:18:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| well that's the thing - our intern has some background in web development</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:18:13" class="time">May 21 11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:18:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so getting something like a test case/plan tracker, or bugzilla metroid tracker, or similar web-based tester tools</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:18:39" class="time">May 21 11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:18:43"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | viking-ice get's more and more curious about this mysterious intern... </td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:18:43" class="time">May 21 11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:18:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| is a distinct possiblity</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:18:44" class="time">May 21 11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:18:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wwoods is now an admin of the qa group.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:18:48" class="time">May 21 11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:18:55"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | wwoods flexes</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:18:55" class="time">May 21 11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:19:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| other proposed web tools.. the ever-popular rawhide dashboard</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:19:25" class="time">May 21 11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:19:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| Honestly we do have software coming down teh pike for test case management and test result management</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:19:31" class="time">May 21 11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:19:32"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | viking-ice throws the dices to see if wwoods gonna smite him..</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:19:32" class="time">May 21 11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:19:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| f13: oh?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:19:35" class="time">May 21 11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:19:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| so I would think using the intern for something else would be better.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:19:38" class="time">May 21 11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:19:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wwoods: that's stage 1 of bill peck's work</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:19:49" class="time">May 21 11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:19:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| but for manual test cases etc?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:19:59" class="time">May 21 11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:20:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| I mean the Testify2 team has been talking about this for a year</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:20:08" class="time">May 21 11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:20:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wwoods: from what I understand it, the way it's supposed tow ork is that you create a test case that /is/ the manual way of doing the test</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:20:22" class="time">May 21 11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:20:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wwoods: then people can do the test and register with the system that they've done said test / steps</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:20:39" class="time">May 21 11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:20:59"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | f13 wonders why it is I know more about this than the guy in QA...</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:20:59" class="time">May 21 11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:21:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| heh. because you sit near him?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:21:16" class="time">May 21 11:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:22:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| anywho, there's supposed to be something working or to the point of being worked on by FUDCon BOS</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:22:22" class="time">May 21 11:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:22:23"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 hears pins drop</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:22:23" class="time">May 21 11:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:22:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that'd be cool</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:22:42" class="time">May 21 11:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:22:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so, okay, assuming that bpeck is going to descend from the heavens with a perfect test tracker</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:22:59" class="time">May 21 11:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:23:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| I would still urge you to seek bpeck out and have a conversation with him bout this and the intern stuff.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:23:01" class="time">May 21 11:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:23:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| definitely</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:23:05" class="time">May 21 11:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:23:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| anyway: what would you suggest that we work on?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:23:50" class="time">May 21 11:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:23:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that being, y'know, the intern and whoever else has time</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:23:57" class="time">May 21 11:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:24:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| as it is now, QA gets two real windows for development: summer and winter</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:24:18" class="time">May 21 11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:24:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so. summer dev cycle priorities?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:24:27" class="time">May 21 11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:24:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| test cases would be good</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:24:48" class="time">May 21 11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:24:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| or are you talking about infrastructure level stuff?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:24:57" class="time">May 21 11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:25:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| infrastructure-level stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:25:06" class="time">May 21 11:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:25:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| I know that I could use a lot of tree validation tests and some form of automated rawhide validation each night</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:25:17" class="time">May 21 11:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:25:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| test cases are OK, a tool to put test cases in is even better</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:25:24" class="time">May 21 11:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:25:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| nod</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:25:28" class="time">May 21 11:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:25:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| nightly rawhide runs means extending SNAKE</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:25:52" class="time">May 21 11:25</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="tMay 21 11:26:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| which is something jlaska might be thinking about already</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:26:11" class="time">May 21 11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:26:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| IIRC he's been talking to bpeck about using SNAKE to get machines installed for the next-gen testing system</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:26:35" class="time">May 21 11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:27:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so it's an active area of development with a good amount of appeal internally, which means we will probably get support from RHEL QE</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:27:33" class="time">May 21 11:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:28:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so is that the worst part of the test cycle?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:28:10" class="time">May 21 11:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:28:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| I've heard several suggestions from devleopment mgmt on needs for a QA intern in the fedora space that are visible in both fedora and RHEL </td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:28:14" class="time">May 21 11:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:28:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| making sure rawhide works and finding out when it does?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:28:16" class="time">May 21 11:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:29:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| I'd sure like to have some stats on how many days we have installable rawhide and how many days it's broken</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:29:04" class="time">May 21 11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:29:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| i would *love* to see snake work via PXE</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:29:09" class="time">May 21 11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:29:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| not just from an installed system</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:29:13" class="time">May 21 11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:29:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| oh yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:29:18" class="time">May 21 11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:29:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| IIRC there were some changes in the livecd tools to make, basically, huge initrd images</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:29:39" class="time">May 21 11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:29:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| it'd be perfect to just use a known-good kernel and an initrd that just runs snake</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:29:52" class="time">May 21 11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:30:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| yeah, i noticed a livecd-iso-to-pxeboot command</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:30:15" class="time">May 21 11:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:30:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so if we can figure out how to generate a super-minimal snake livecd</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:30:45" class="time">May 21 11:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:31:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| then we are golden</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:31:06" class="time">May 21 11:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:31:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| in fact.. snake livecd is a good idea by itself</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:31:13" class="time">May 21 11:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:31:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wwoods: nightly testing is definitely a sore point right now. I'd also love to be able to poop out a full split iso tree and turn loose an automated test suite upon it</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:31:15" class="time">May 21 11:31</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="tMay 21 11:31:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| f13: wow, that'd be painful :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:31:52" class="time">May 21 11:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:32:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| mmmm fibre</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:32:14" class="time">May 21 11:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:32:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| better than pooping out Everything</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:32:15" class="time">May 21 11:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:33:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| okay, I'm getting the sense that automated installation testing is the Big Dream</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:33:36" class="time">May 21 11:33</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="tMay 21 11:33:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| it's kind of a prereq for automated functional testing, too, so it's pretty important</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:33:58" class="time">May 21 11:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:35:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| So we'll assume bpeck has the testcase / testplan tracking stuff covered</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:35:38" class="time">May 21 11:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:35:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| hopefully, and maybe he could use some help with it</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:35:52" class="time">May 21 11:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:36:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| I also think we need to focus on testing more than just the install path</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:36:07" class="time">May 21 11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:36:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| working with the SIGs to create test cases to validate their area of responsiblities</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:36:23" class="time">May 21 11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:36:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| f13++</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:36:26" class="time">May 21 11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:36:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| f13: i think that should be part of more specific release criteria</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:36:52" class="time">May 21 11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:36:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| right now, even though it's on the release criteria, i dont think we test that apps survive a basic click-through.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:36:55" class="time">May 21 11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:37:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| and would consider help leading such a session at fudcon</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:37:01" class="time">May 21 11:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:37:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| right</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:37:04" class="time">May 21 11:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:37:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| the thing I'm worried about is that.. it leads to enormous growth in test cases</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:37:42" class="time">May 21 11:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and tracking test execution is still kind of a PITA with the wiki</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:01" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| well, if the SIGs are responsible for having someone in the QA subproject, then we're golden.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:08" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| definitely</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:13" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| right</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:16" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| oh, and I'm going to nominate myself for FESCo so I have a vote on all proposed features</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:29" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| Unless the SIG is offering somebody up to do the testing, those tests are not going to be blockers</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:31" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and I'm gonna vote against anything that doesn't have a good test plan</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:43" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:47"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | mether has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:47" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:38:59"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 votes for wwoods </td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:38:59" class="time">May 21 11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:39:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| not that it looks like there's gonna be much voting at this point :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:39:13" class="time">May 21 11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:39:48"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 was thinking of nominating himself too, but was gonna wait til the last minute.</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:39:48" class="time">May 21 11:39</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="tMay 21 11:40:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| I mean, obviously QA as a team will offer support in writing (and executing) test plans</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:40:33" class="time">May 21 11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:40:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so it shouldn't be too heavy a requirement</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:40:38" class="time">May 21 11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:40:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| but yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:40:40" class="time">May 21 11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:40:54"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | viking-ice suggest "hostile" takeover since it worked so well last time ( wwoods is now an admin of the qa group ) </td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:40:54" class="time">May 21 11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:40:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| ALSO I want test plans to be attached to, y'know, components</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:40:56" class="time">May 21 11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:41:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so when there's a new update for a package, bodhi can show all the test cases for that package</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:41:18" class="time">May 21 11:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:41:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| wwoods: can you provide guidance that I can add to feature policy about what is considered sufficient</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:41:28" class="time">May 21 11:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:41:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:41:31" class="time">May 21 11:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:41:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| i get a lot of push back on "how hard" it is to fill out feature pages :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:41:45" class="time">May 21 11:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:42:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| so i'm sure there will be more if we tighten up test plan section</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:42:11" class="time">May 21 11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:42:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| there's a testplan template and plenty of examples</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:42:17" class="time">May 21 11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:42:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| basically we'd like a way to verify that the Feature is working as expected, or not working as expected</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:42:43" class="time">May 21 11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:42:43"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 also thinks that folks that offer that pushback are full of crap.</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:42:43" class="time">May 21 11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:42:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| err, test *case* rather. <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestCases/TestCaseTemplate">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestCases/TestCaseTemplate</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:42:44" class="time">May 21 11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:42:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| We're not asking for a doctoral thesis there.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:42:53" class="time">May 21 11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:43:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| We'll find a good example or two</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:43:00" class="time">May 21 11:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:43:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and link people to the testcasetemplate</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:43:07" class="time">May 21 11:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:43:39"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jds2001 goes to lunch</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:43:39" class="time">May 21 11:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:44:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| so the thinking is, that when a feature is proposed, it would be "a good thing" to have some guidance as to steps to validate functionality</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:44:24" class="time">May 21 11:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:44:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| poelcat: is that sufficient?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:44:29" class="time">May 21 11:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:44:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| are we expecting the feature author to write the testcase(s)?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:44:39" class="time">May 21 11:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:44:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| right - it's a simple request. Feature owners, please tell QA how to test your feature</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:44:46" class="time">May 21 11:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:44:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| wwoods: can you give me links to the "good example or two" ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:44:56" class="time">May 21 11:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:45:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jlaska: yes, but we'll certainly provide assistance and guidance</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:45:00" class="time">May 21 11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:45:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| wwoods: I'm guessing they'll likely want to provide the assistance and guidance, and we focus on what we do well (the test cases) part. </td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:45:42" class="time">May 21 11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:46:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| poelcat: offhand no - there's probably a couple good 'uns in the installation test plan</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:46:01" class="time">May 21 11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:46:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestCases/InstallDualbootMacOSX">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestCases/InstallDualbootMacOSX</a> is nicely verbose</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:46:54" class="time">May 21 11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:46:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| I don't know if I'm comfortable asking development to write the test cases ... perhaps propose test cases, or provide input that influences a test case.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:46:54" class="time">May 21 11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:46:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestCases/PartitioningNoSwap">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestCases/PartitioningNoSwap</a> is more to the point</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:46:57" class="time">May 21 11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:47:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jlaska: okay, ask that they *propose* a test case, and QA will expand/cleanup until it's acceptable</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:47:18" class="time">May 21 11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:47:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| if not actual test case, psuedo test case.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:47:21" class="time">May 21 11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:47:23"><td class="nickchange" colspan="2">--- | rdieter is now known as rdieter_away</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:47:23" class="time">May 21 11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:47:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| well I mean, check the PartitioningNoSwap case</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:47:32" class="time">May 21 11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:47:47"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | rdieter [n=rdieter@pcp088900pcs.unl.edu] has joined #fedora-meeting</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:47:47" class="time">May 21 11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:47:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| wwoods: I think that's fair ... they use the same philosophy for patch review for their code. We should employ the same mechanism</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:47:55" class="time">May 21 11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:48:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that's a sufficient case, and it doesn't take real dang long to write something like that</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:48:12" class="time">May 21 11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:48:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| many features often require fairly extensive test plans ... another case where having tighter involvement between both groups is required to produce a usable outcome</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:48:52" class="time">May 21 11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:49:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| right</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:49:00" class="time">May 21 11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:49:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| larger features will probably be driven by an internal team or a SIG</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:49:13" class="time">May 21 11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:49:15"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | rdieter has quit (Remote closed the connection)</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:49:15" class="time">May 21 11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:49:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| which should already have QA reps</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:49:20" class="time">May 21 11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:49:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so they should have some good guidance on doing the right thing</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:49:31" class="time">May 21 11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:49:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so let's talk about the QA group a bit - any prereqs for membership?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:49:55" class="time">May 21 11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:50:01"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | rdieter [n=rdieter@pcp088900pcs.unl.edu] has joined #fedora-meeting</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:50:01" class="time">May 21 11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:50:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| FAS and CLA</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:50:08" class="time">May 21 11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:50:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| at the moment it doesn't grant you and rights</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:50:09" class="time">May 21 11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:50:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| err, any rights</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:50:17" class="time">May 21 11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:50:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| the FAS is rather implicit</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:50:18" class="time">May 21 11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:50:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| but CLA I'd like so we cna be sure to re-use any submitted test cases in RHEL products</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:50:32" class="time">May 21 11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:50:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| is group membership needed for bodhi commentary, or just a FAS account?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:50:34" class="time">May 21 11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:50:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">| Directions for turning "debugging" where to look what to strace etc.. and which component ( if not plain obvious ) to file against in bgz, will need to be on the test case page ( new testers will need this stuff )..</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:50:53" class="time">May 21 11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:51:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| bodhi commentary can be done anonymously</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:51:00" class="time">May 21 11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:51:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| right, but anonymous doesn't count</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:51:10" class="time">May 21 11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:51:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wwoods: I don't know the answer to that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:51:23" class="time">May 21 11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:51:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| lmacken: ping?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:51:26" class="time">May 21 11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:51:30"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | rdieter [n=rdieter@pcp088900pcs.unl.edu] has left #fedora-meeting ( "Konversation terminated!")</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:51:30" class="time">May 21 11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:51:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| "real QA" should be done by identified users - plus we want to keep metroids on karma given by QA team members</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:51:46" class="time">May 21 11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:52:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">| +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:52:00" class="time">May 21 11:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:52:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| wwoods: QA group bit ... what's the driver behind that? Are there problems/concerns in the current process?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:52:00" class="time">May 21 11:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:52:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| heh ... s/Are/What are/ </td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:52:25" class="time">May 21 11:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:53:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| yeah, helps identify the team members and keep the team more team-y</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:53:02" class="time">May 21 11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:53:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| in the future we'll use it to give access to QA tools</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:53:23" class="time">May 21 11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:53:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">| So will this extend to overall QA or just testing..</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:53:23" class="time">May 21 11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:53:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| like bpeck's stuff I'd assume</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:53:29" class="time">May 21 11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:53:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| overall QA - writing test plans, f'rinstance</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:53:41" class="time">May 21 11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:54:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| or if we ever start doing things like unit testing in the package database</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:54:10" class="time">May 21 11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:55:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so, yeah, mostly the driver is recognizing and rewarding contributors to QA</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:55:23" class="time">May 21 11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:56:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| anyway we're very near the end of our hour</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:56:29" class="time">May 21 11:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:56:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| any last-minute questions / discussion topics?</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:56:49" class="time">May 21 11:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:57:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">| Well it should give the maintainers/developers more time to focus on their work if they can hand over all the testing to QA</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:57:00" class="time">May 21 11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:57:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we don't really have the capacity for that right now though</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:57:29" class="time">May 21 11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:57:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">| and just post I need testing on this and this and this ..</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:57:30" class="time">May 21 11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:57:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| which is why team-building is important - to expand the team and build (and measure) capacity</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:57:56" class="time">May 21 11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:59:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">| true</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:59:09" class="time">May 21 11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:59:27"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | f13 foods.</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 11:59:27" class="time">May 21 11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:59:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| yeah, I think meeting time is over, and food time is now</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:59:44" class="time">May 21 11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 11:59:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">smooge</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">| wwoods, good eating</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 11:59:50" class="time">May 21 11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 12:00:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| thanks for your time, folks.. further discussion can be moved to #fedora-qa or fedora-test-list</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 12:00:01" class="time">May 21 12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 12:00:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| oh! one note</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 12:00:04" class="time">May 21 12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 12:00:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| <a href="http://partner-bugzilla.redhat.com/">http://partner-bugzilla.redhat.com/</a> has a beta of the Bugzilla 3.2 code we'll be using soon</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 12:00:20" class="time">May 21 12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 12:00:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| it doesn't send mail or anything, so mess around to your heart's content</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 12:00:38" class="time">May 21 12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 12:00:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| *especially* if you've got any bugzilla-specific code, test it against that instance</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 12:00:55" class="time">May 21 12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 12:00:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and make sure everything works OK</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 12:00:58" class="time">May 21 12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 12:01:09"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | stahnma [n=stahnma@fedora/stahnma] has joined #fedora-meeting</td><td><a href="#tMay 21 12:01:09" class="time">May 21 12:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="tMay 21 12:01:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| thanks again!</td><td class="time"><a href="#tMay 21 12:01:26" class="time">May 21 12:01</a></td></tr>
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