QA/Meetings/20090617

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Contents

Attendees

  • Adam Williamson (adamw)
  • Will Woods (wwoods)
  • James Laska (jlaska)
  • Jesse Keating (f13)

Guest appearances by:

  • Mel Chua (mchua)
  • Kevin Fenzi (nirik)
  • Ricky Zhou (ricky)


Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  1. [stickster] - who will be handling release_notes bugs to help with RHBZ #499585
  2. [adamw] - propose draft wording of minimal requirements for the release_notes team to digest
    • i did the minimal requirements stuff on the bug (see RHBZ #499585)
    • Ball now in the fedora-release-notes court, but since Adamw is a docs team member now, he might help raise this issue through the docs channels

F-11 Retrospective feedback

John Poelstra hosted a F-11 Retrospective (aka post-mortem) yesterday (see meeting recap). The meeting was a cool mix of communication channels which included using gobby and a phone conference call. User:jlaska just wanted to briefly chat about experiences from that meeting, or the preparation done by the QA group leading up to the meeting.

User:jlaska gathered the QA talking points for the meeting ahead of time (see QA/Meetings/20090603#F-11_QA_Post-mortem_discussion). Did folks think that worked well, needed more/less prep from QA. Were your concerns appropriately raised?

  • adamw noted it felt like he came from the future, and that the format worked well
  • f13 indicated 2 positive notes:
    1. many people recognized the efforts QA and bugzappers were putting into the release
    2. many people recognized that more of that efforts and better tooling around those efforts will again have positive effect

jlaska asked if there was anything we'd want to change for next time ... in terms of recording pain points so we don't forget them?

  • f13 noted ... just like with the FAD, the proof will be in the pudding. If after a months time, nothing came of the talk, then I don't think it worked well. however if after a month's time, we have some progress on what people thing went poorly (or more effort in what people thing went well) then I think it'll have been a success.

jlaska took an action item to update the QA/Goals document to reflect renewed focus around FAD proposals and Fedora 11 retrospective feedback.

jlaska asked if the team felt we should be using gobby or phone for QA meetings? Consensus was that IRC was the most accessible method for hosting QA team meetings, and that gobby/phone would be better suited for more content driven collaborative meetings.

Nirik pointed to http://www.dissociatedpress.net/2009/06/03/pros-and-cons-of-irc-meetings/

QA Review of related FAD topics

Jlaska and wwoods were discussing the israwhidebroken.com proposal and wanted to raise awareness to folks who haven't yet provided feedback or reviewed the FAD proposals. f13 sent mail to the list with background details (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00385.html). The propals are:

If you haven't read the proposals and added your questions/concerns/ideas to the Discussion tab of each page. Please take a few minutes to do so. Several of these proposals have a larger impact to maintainers and consumers of rawhide.

AutoQA Update

Wwoods provided an update on the autoqa project (see http://autoqa.fedorahosted.org).

www.israwhidebroken.com (hereinafter irb.com) can be thought of as a simple proof-of-concept of an AutoQA system. the goals for irb.com are basically a simple set of tests running automatically in response to a trigger (new rawhide being built) with public results reported that's autoqa!

User:wwoods set irb.com as the first milestone for the autoqa project and filed a buncha tickets that outline the plan at https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com. Will outlined a rough schedule for completing various tasks that lead up to the Fedora 12 Alpha release.

f13 gave an update on his work with Lucas Rodrigues (lmr) to help package autotest (the test scheduler the autoqa project intends to use). It's a difficult beast to package, and has a few unpackaged dependencies, including google web toolkit. Wwoods indicated he would continue with outlined tasks and adjust as needed should any issues surface from the packaging efforts.

Wwoods will lead efforts to create a rawhide acceptance test plan and test cases in time for next weeks meeting (June 24).

Open Discussion

Unfortunately, the meeting ran over and bumped into another time slot. The following items were planned for open discussion, but no time was available. These will be reviewed on the mailing list or planned for the next meeting.

Fedora 12 Schedule update

John Poelstra proposed:

There have been a few different conversations about adding more granularity 
to the schedule, more blocker bug days, and making the hand-off between 
releng and QA clearer.
I've taken a shot at doing that here: 
http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-releng-tasks.html
(right now releng is the most detailed and complete... I'll create other 
team schedules for QA, etc. after we get the kinks out of this one.) 

Detailed discussion on the topic is available on the fedora-test-list at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00507.html

Mediawiki + Semantic update

Mel Chua and James Laska had a follow-on discussion to the Fedora 11 retrospective meeting discussing remaining plans for the mediawiki and semantic proof of concept. Mel was instrumental in designing the framework used by the laptop.org QA team. No updates as of yet, but Mel might be available to help setup a demo instance to gather feedback. Hopefully more information on this topic next week...

Upcoming QA events

Action items

  • [jlaska] - update QA/Goals wiki document
  • [wwoods] - updates on Rawhide acceptance test plan

IRC Transcript

jlaska | it's that time again ... Fedora QA meet-up Jun 17 12:00
* | jlaska plays with fedbot Jun 17 12:00
adamw | that's disgusting Jun 17 12:01
jlaska | I promise to be gentle Jun 17 12:01
jlaska | #startmeeting Jun 17 12:01
fedbot | Meeting started Wed Jun 17 16:02:44 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Jun 17 12:01
fedbot | Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. Jun 17 12:01
jlaska | #topic Gathering bodies Jun 17 12:01
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Gathering bodies Jun 17 12:01
jlaska | #topic Fedora QA - Gathering bodies Jun 17 12:02
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Fedora QA - Gathering bodies Jun 17 12:02
jlaska | #meetingtopic Fedora QA Meeting Jun 17 12:03
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Fedora QA - Gathering bodies (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Jun 17 12:03
jlaska | #topic Gathering bodies Jun 17 12:03
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Gathering bodies (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Jun 17 12:03
jlaska | sorry for the noise ... just getting a little too familiar with fedbot Jun 17 12:03
adamw | bueller? Jun 17 12:03
jlaska | who else is around for a QA gathering? Jun 17 12:03
jlaska | adamw: I heard he passed out at 31 flavors last night? Jun 17 12:04
adamw | that sounds improbable Jun 17 12:04
* | wwoods liiiiives Jun 17 12:04
jlaska | hey there Jun 17 12:04
jlaska | anyone else from the usual suspects? (Viking-Ice or f13) Jun 17 12:05
jlaska | I believe poelcat is at a conference today Jun 17 12:05
jlaska | well, should be quick then with the 3 of us :) Jun 17 12:06
jlaska | #topic Preview meeting follow-up - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090610#Action_items Jun 17 12:06
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Preview meeting follow-up - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090610#Action_items (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Jun 17 12:06
jlaska | adamw: sorry for the late notice last week, I took down notes and the irc log from the meeting Jun 17 12:07
jlaska | we only have a few small follow-up items on the list around release notes Jun 17 12:07
jlaska | you guys may have already followed up on this ... Jun 17 12:07
jlaska | # [stickster] - who will be handling release_notes bugs to help with RHBZ #499585 Jun 17 12:07
jlaska | # [adamw] - propose draft wording of minimal requirements for the release_notes team to digest Jun 17 12:07
adamw | i did the minimal requirements stuff on the bug Jun 17 12:07
adamw | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499585 Jun 17 12:07
buggbot | Bug 499585: medium, low, ---, relnotes, ASSIGNED, clarify minimum hardware requirements Jun 17 12:07
f13 | hi I'm here Jun 17 12:08
f13 | was a little late finishing my bike ride this morning Jun 17 12:08
jlaska | f13: welcome Jun 17 12:08
jlaska | adamw: so that one is now in the fedora-release-notes court then? Jun 17 12:09
adamw | yeppers Jun 17 12:09
adamw | of course, now i'm on the docs team i could play both ends of the rally =) Jun 17 12:09
adamw | i might bring it up through those channels too somehow. Jun 17 12:09
jlaska | you're just a glutton for pain huh? Jun 17 12:10
adamw | heh Jun 17 12:10
jlaska | that's all I had for follow-up ... unless anything else I missed, we can move along Jun 17 12:10
jlaska | #topic F-11 Retrospective feedback Jun 17 12:11
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: F-11 Retrospective feedback (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Jun 17 12:11
jlaska | so, poelcat hosted a F-11 Retrospective (aka post-mortem) yesterday Jun 17 12:12
jlaska | which was an cool mix of communication channels with gobby and phone Jun 17 12:12
jlaska | I just wanted to briefly chat about experiences from that meeting, or the preparation we did leading up to it Jun 17 12:13
adamw | i feel like i came from the future Jun 17 12:13
f13 | the meeting was good and good Jun 17 12:13
jlaska | I tried to gather the QA talking points for that meeting ahead of time ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090603#F-11_QA_Post-mortem_discussion Jun 17 12:13
f13 | good in that many people recognized the efforts QA and bugzappers were putting into the release Jun 17 12:13
f13 | good also in that many people recognized that more of that efforts and better tooling around those efforts will again have positive effect Jun 17 12:14
jlaska | did folks think that worked well, needed more/less prep from QA. Were your concerns appropriately raised Jun 17 12:14
f13 | I was a slacker and "prepared" while other people were talking Jun 17 12:14
--- | a is now known as abadger1999 Jun 17 12:14
jlaska | I wasn't 100% sure of the format of that meeting, so I wanted to tmake sure we had QA discussion points ahead of time Jun 17 12:14
adamw | i think it worked well Jun 17 12:15
adamw | except that i had nothing to say and had to ramble like an idiot :) Jun 17 12:15
jlaska | adamw: that was my job Jun 17 12:15
f13 | heh Jun 17 12:15
adamw | but you sounded all smart and on top of things Jun 17 12:15
jlaska | anything we'd want to change for next time ... in terms of recording pain points so we don't forget them ? Jun 17 12:15
f13 | just like with the FAD, the proof will be in the pudding. If after a months time, nothing came of the talk, then I don't think it worked well Jun 17 12:15
f13 | however if after a month's time, we have some progress on what people thing went poorly (or more effort in what people thing went well) then I think it'll have been a success Jun 17 12:16
jlaska | f13: great point! Jun 17 12:16
adamw | true Jun 17 12:16
jlaska | so ... lemme take an action item I've been delaying for a long while Jun 17 12:16
jlaska | I'd like to propose updates to our QA/Goals wiki ... which I hope will show how we are incorporating FAD and F11 lessons learned into our planning Jun 17 12:16
jlaska | objections/alternatives/favorite_jokes ? Jun 17 12:17
f13 | jlaska: I look forward to seeing the updates? Jun 17 12:17
adamw | I also! Jun 17 12:17
--- | stickster_afk is now known as stickster Jun 17 12:17
adamw | work being done by other people is always a good thing Jun 17 12:17
jlaska | heh, okay I'll take it for next week ... /me fiddles Jun 17 12:18
jlaska | #action update QA/Goals wiki Jun 17 12:18
jlaska | okaly dokaly ... anything else on the retrospective? Jun 17 12:18
* | wwoods plays banjo Jun 17 12:18
jlaska | do folks think we should be using gobby or phone for QA meetings? Jun 17 12:18
* | adamw chews grass stalk Jun 17 12:19
adamw | nah, I think IRC is fine. Jun 17 12:19
wwoods | the output isn't heavy enough to require collaborative editing of full-fledged docs Jun 17 12:19
jlaska | true true Jun 17 12:19
adamw | and if we decided to go all 21st century we should use fedora talk. and if it has these muting issues or whatever - fix 'em! eat our own dog food and all that. Jun 17 12:19
jlaska | would you guys want that for this meeting? Jun 17 12:20
jlaska | re: fedora talk? Jun 17 12:20
wwoods | IRC seems more accessible than Fedora Talk Jun 17 12:20
adamw | honestly, i don't think so Jun 17 12:20
jlaska | okay Jun 17 12:20
adamw | it's a bit more of a speedbump Jun 17 12:20
--- | stahnma_ is now known as stahnma Jun 17 12:20
jlaska | a'ight Jun 17 12:20
adamw | don your headset (or get a headset), start ekiga (most people aren't running it 24/7), dial in...meh Jun 17 12:20
* | jlaska flashes gang sign Jun 17 12:20
adamw | and, of course, it would be much harder to log Jun 17 12:20
wwoods | yup Jun 17 12:20
jlaska | good points Jun 17 12:20
jlaska | cool, just want to make sure we're hosting these in the most effecient/productive means Jun 17 12:21
adamw | we could use Opera Unite ;) Jun 17 12:21
wwoods | I don't see any benefit other than "it's coooool" Jun 17 12:21
wwoods | I don't even have a headset Jun 17 12:21
jlaska | wwoods: I could make a "confidential" headset :) Jun 17 12:21
jlaska | adamw: I don't even want to google on that subject Jun 17 12:21
jlaska | ... if it's anything like her favorite movie pick from 2 years ago Jun 17 12:22
adamw | jlaska: you didn't see it? it's Opera's new system to own all your data. hey, makes a change from Google! Jun 17 12:22
wwoods | Opera, not Oprah Jun 17 12:22
f13 | adamw: phone calls are prohibitively difficult for folks who can't hear (or speak) Jun 17 12:22
jlaska | wwoods: doh! :D Jun 17 12:22
adamw | f13: indeed, accessibility issues too Jun 17 12:22
jlaska | #topic QA Review of related FAD topics Jun 17 12:22
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: QA Review of related FAD topics (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Jun 17 12:22
f13 | I think voice meetings should be reserved for a specific task where we're sure we're not excluding anybody Jun 17 12:22
jlaska | f13: true, like FAD's Jun 17 12:23
adamw | although i suppose there may be those for whom voice is easier than a typed meeting...blind / er...missing hands? Jun 17 12:23
* | nirik thinks zonkers points are pretty valid: http://www.dissociatedpress.net/2009/06/03/pros-and-cons-of-irc-meetings/ Jun 17 12:23
* | ricky agrees with sticking to IRC meetings when possible, for whatever little or nothing that's worth. Jun 17 12:23
f13 | adamw: yeah, there are tradeoffs. Jun 17 12:23
jlaska | nirik: thanks for the link Jun 17 12:23
f13 | adamw: pure email would probably be the least exclusive as people can use technology to compose emails at their own pace, but that draws things out way too long Jun 17 12:24
f13 | (in my opinion of course) Jun 17 12:24
adamw | so, anyway, i think we're pretty unanimous for sticking with irc. Jun 17 12:24
jlaska | f13: it does, but we also follow up to the list with minutes of hte meetings for that crowd I guess Jun 17 12:24
jlaska | yeah ... okay next topic Jun 17 12:24
f13 | nod Jun 17 12:24
jlaska | Chatting with wwoods yesterday who wanted to add a reminder to the agenda that we are nearing the end of open-feedback for the FAD proposals that have impact on QA Jun 17 12:25
jlaska | meaning, let's get input/concerns in on these proposals since the large wheels of progress are starting to rotate Jun 17 12:25
* | jlaska finds proposal linkies Jun 17 12:25
jlaska | the proposals are outlined in Jesse's update to fedora-test-list ... https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00385.html Jun 17 12:26
f13 | something failed in the wiki watch and there is a lot of feedback I missed, so I need to review the wiki pages today Jun 17 12:26
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Milestone_Adjustment_Proposal - Bill Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | Nottingham Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Israwhidebroken.com_Proposal - Will Woods Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | and James Laska Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Koji_Build_Autosign_Proposal - Jesse Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | Keating Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Critical_Path_Packages_Proposal - Seth Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | Vidal Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_Frozen_Rawhide_Proposal - Jesse Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | Keating Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | Jun 17 12:27
fedbot | jlaska: remove #fedora-meeting jlaska : Please don't flood the channel, use a pastebin link like http://fpaste.org/ or http://dpaste.com Jun 17 12:27
fedbot | jlaska: remove #fedora-meeting jlaska : Please don't flood the channel, use a pastebin link like http://fpaste.org/ or http://dpaste.com Jun 17 12:27
jlaska | doh! Jun 17 12:27
* | jlaska made happy fun ball angry Jun 17 12:28
f13 | hi Jun 17 12:28
jlaska | f13: how long to folks have to get feedback in on these proposals? Jun 17 12:28
* | nirik sighs. Thought I fixed that. Sorry about it. Jun 17 12:28
jlaska | nirik: no worries, poor irc form on my part Jun 17 12:28
f13 | jlaska: I figured at least until after I get back from Germany Jun 17 12:28
jlaska | that's about 2 weeks right? Jun 17 12:29
f13 | I think I'll give a recap of the FAD at FUDCon Berlin Jun 17 12:29
f13 | which may prompt some feedback Jun 17 12:29
--- | neverho0d_ is now known as neverho0d Jun 17 12:29
jlaska | oh good, FUDCon Berlin should pull in some additional focus on those topics Jun 17 12:29
f13 | jlaska: i get back in a little over a week Jun 17 12:29
f13 | I think we told some other people that it was open at least for 2 weeks as of yesterday Jun 17 12:29
f13 | of course, not all proposals are ready for voting, many need a lot more work Jun 17 12:29
jlaska | okay ... so until the end of the month (June 30) Jun 17 12:29
f13 | sounds right Jun 17 12:30
f13 | realistically anything we do that we want to target F12 on has to be done before the Feature Freeze of Alpha Jun 17 12:30
f13 | which is late July I do believe Jun 17 12:30
jlaska | okay, cool ... wwoods were there any other issues you wanted to raise on this topic? Jun 17 12:31
wwoods | nope - I'd hope by now that all interested parties have had time to read the proposals Jun 17 12:31
wwoods | and any comments or concerns have been made or addressed Jun 17 12:31
jlaska | are there any specific groups that haven't responded that we'd really like feedback from? Jun 17 12:32
f13 | what might spurn more discussion is a first blush look at the critical path, and send that out to fedora-devel-list as well as all the maintainers of packages within the critical path Jun 17 12:32
f13 | that might poke a few people into realizing that "we mean them" Jun 17 12:32
jlaska | heh, yeah I suspect that will be a healthy thread : Jun 17 12:33
wwoods | yeah, if we want to feel like everyone's had their chance to vent Jun 17 12:33
jlaska | ) Jun 17 12:33
wwoods | and suggest their favorite color for the bikeshed Jun 17 12:33
wwoods | then we should probably send very simple summaries of the proposed changes to f-d-l and/or f-t-l Jun 17 12:33
wwoods | just to make sure everyone knows exactly what we're really going to change Jun 17 12:33
wwoods | and that we're seriously going to move along with this stuff ASAP Jun 17 12:33
wwoods | but, honestly, no matter how hard we try there's still going to be people who are suprised and angry when we make the changes Jun 17 12:34
jlaska | yeah true true Jun 17 12:34
wwoods | we may already be past the point where more effort buys us more support Jun 17 12:35
wwoods | or at least more constructive discussion Jun 17 12:35
jlaska | this bleeds into the next topic a bit, but I think we'll have a barrage of discussion around israwhidebroken Jun 17 12:35
f13 | my suggestion on the critical path issue is that you pitch it more toward "QA is signing up to help with these packages, isn't that great?" as opposed to "suckers, you own special packages and now you're our BITCH!" Jun 17 12:35
wwoods | I feel that we should just take it as read that everyone's had their chance to comment Jun 17 12:36
wwoods | and start implementing the proposed changes Jun 17 12:36
jlaska | yeah Jun 17 12:36
f13 | irb.com is pretty self contained, and doesn't really require anything from anybody else. Jun 17 12:36
f13 | so yeah, take the comments there, and run with it Jun 17 12:36
* | jlaska still needs to come up to speed with how QA will engage with critical path Jun 17 12:37
wwoods | it requires some stuff from infrastructure, but nothing crazy Jun 17 12:37
jlaska | okay, if nothing else ... changing gears to a related topic Jun 17 12:37
jlaska | #topic AutoQA update Jun 17 12:38
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: AutoQA update (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Jun 17 12:38
jlaska | wwoods: you've got the floor Jun 17 12:38
wwoods | well, basically Jun 17 12:39
--- | mchua_mtg is now known as mchua Jun 17 12:39
wwoods | israwhidebroken.com (hereinafter irb.com) can be thought of as a simple proof-of-concept of an AutoQA system Jun 17 12:40
wwoods | the goals for irb.com are basically a simple set of tests running automatically in response to a trigger (new rawhide being built) Jun 17 12:40
wwoods | with public results reported Jun 17 12:40
wwoods | that's autoqa! Jun 17 12:40
wwoods | so I've established irb.com as the first milestone for the autoqa project Jun 17 12:41
wwoods | and filed a buncha tickets that outline the plan Jun 17 12:41
wwoods | see https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com Jun 17 12:41
jlaska | sweet, I like the component %'s trac displays on that link ... didn't know it did that Jun 17 12:42
wwoods | the first step is to outline the test plan for how we check to see if rawhide is broken Jun 17 12:42
wwoods | and enumerate the test cases in that plan Jun 17 12:42
wwoods | we've settled on trying to use autotest as the test harness / API for writing automated tests Jun 17 12:43
wwoods | that's http://autotest.kernel.org/ Jun 17 12:43
wwoods | it'll need to be packaged to be acceptable for use in Fedora, which is ticket #9, which f13 is working on Jun 17 12:43
jlaska | wwoods: I forgot to tell you, I made an official mediawiki template for test plans a while back ... that you can use if you like (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:QA/Test_Plan). I'm going to tweak it so that many sections are optional, but shout if you want format changes too Jun 17 12:43
jlaska | it's a bit heavy I know ... but it's a start Jun 17 12:43
f13 | wwoods: that particular item is going to take some effort Jun 17 12:44
wwoods | jlaska: that's cool, and yes, I used that template (using the {{subst:TEMPLATE_NAME}} trick stickster showed us) for the first draft Jun 17 12:44
adamw | sorry if i'm quiet. i am working out MIME types. MIME types are fun! wait, that is not true. Jun 17 12:44
f13 | wwoods: the big thing is that it requires google web toolkit at build time to turn some .java files in to java script Jun 17 12:44
wwoods | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan Jun 17 12:44
f13 | and gwt isn't in Fedora yet, it's a big pile of java stuff, so loads of fun waiting for me there. Jun 17 12:44
wwoods | f13: right, I figured there'd be some thorny bits in there. Jun 17 12:44
wwoods | as with testopia, we're going to assume that it's probably all OK Jun 17 12:45
* | mchua reads backlogs, listens with interest Jun 17 12:45
wwoods | and move forward with a test instance Jun 17 12:45
jlaska | mchua: welcome! Jun 17 12:45
wwoods | and work on packaging in parallel Jun 17 12:45
wwoods | and if it turns out there's giant evil lurking legal monsters Jun 17 12:45
wwoods | we'll have to drop it on the floor and find something else Jun 17 12:45
wwoods | again. Jun 17 12:45
* | jlaska loads bfg9000 in preparation for any monsters Jun 17 12:45
wwoods | I think we feel much more confident that this codebase is going to turn out to be OK in the end, though Jun 17 12:46
f13 | yeah Jun 17 12:46
f13 | I've audited autotest itself and it's pretty clean Jun 17 12:46
f13 | the only gotchas are bundled deps which we can patch around Jun 17 12:46
jlaska | f13: I know you and lmr have been going gang busters on working through packaging issues ... are you comfortable continuing down that route? Jun 17 12:46
f13 | it's just GPLv2 and one chunk of BSD code Jun 17 12:46
f13 | jlaska: yep, it's fine by me Jun 17 12:47
wwoods | so autotest brings us a test harness and a results reporting web frontend Jun 17 12:47
f13 | it's enough "release engineer" for me and my manager to be happy (: Jun 17 12:47
jlaska | sweet, because when I looked at the code I knew it was going to need someone with a packagers swiss army knife Jun 17 12:47
wwoods | which is two things that beaker wasn't planning to provide anyway Jun 17 12:47
wwoods | so there's no duplication of effort AFAIK Jun 17 12:47
wwoods | they are complementary efforts Jun 17 12:48
wwoods | and we can figure out how to bind them together later on Jun 17 12:48
f13 | jlaska: $ wc -l autotest.spec Jun 17 12:48
f13 | 190 autotest.spec Jun 17 12:48
f13 | it's a bit beastly right now Jun 17 12:48
wwoods | but anyway, the basic outline of The Roadmap: Jun 17 12:48
f13 | $ grep __install autotest.spec |wc -l Jun 17 12:48
f13 | 67 Jun 17 12:48
wwoods | write test plan for "how to check to see if rawhide is broken." write individual test cases for each requirement in the plan. Jun 17 12:49
f13 | 67 calls to __install so far. (there is no "make install" let alone "make" in the upstream) Jun 17 12:49
wwoods | automate test cases. Jun 17 12:49
wwoods | get automated cases running automatically when rawhide finishes building. Jun 17 12:49
wwoods | generate simple HTML summary of test results. Jun 17 12:49
wwoods | put that summary on israwhidebroken.com. Jun 17 12:49
wwoods | toast with champagne and retire to the bahamas. Jun 17 12:50
* | jlaska looking forward to final step Jun 17 12:50
adamw | yeah, i'll definitely join in for that bit Jun 17 12:50
wwoods | the tickets include some of the other details involved. Jun 17 12:51
adamw | i may be inexplicably busy during the earlier parts though Jun 17 12:51
wwoods | I may want help writing/automating test cases. I expect there to be 10 or so. Jun 17 12:51
jlaska | I'd like to help with that Jun 17 12:51
wwoods | we'll obviously be documenting how to set up the test system, how to write tests, &c Jun 17 12:51
wwoods | along the way Jun 17 12:51
f13 | wwoods: how far out do you see this effort? Would it be worth scheduling a FAD to get a few of us a day or two code sprint? Jun 17 12:52
f13 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_%28software_development%29 Jun 17 12:52
wwoods | the timeline we're kicking around would have the steps I outlined above finished by F12 Alpha Jun 17 12:52
wwoods | or thereabouts Jun 17 12:53
wwoods | which is convenient since that's where people will start jumping on rawhide more Jun 17 12:53
wwoods | and will be wanting this info Jun 17 12:53
jlaska | I feel like you've got some flex time in the plan in case there are speed bumps Jun 17 12:54
wwoods | I'd like to have the test plan and cases all finished by the next meeting Jun 17 12:54
wwoods | (June 24) Jun 17 12:54
wwoods | my notes indicate that we also wanted to have all the cases *automated* by then Jun 17 12:55
f13 | woof Jun 17 12:55
wwoods | but that sounds like a typo Jun 17 12:55
jlaska | wwoods: I think that was by 7/24? Jun 17 12:55
wwoods | oh 7/24! Jun 17 12:55
wwoods | yeah 6/24 is next week Jun 17 12:55
jlaska | that could have been my typo Jun 17 12:55
wwoods | Hi! I'm Will, and I can't keep June and July straight Jun 17 12:56
jlaska | LOL Jun 17 12:56
wwoods | So yes. Tentative timeline: Jun 17 12:56
wwoods | test plan/cases written by next meeting (June 24) Jun 17 12:56
wwoods | test instance of autotest in Fedora Infrastructure by July 1 Jun 17 12:56
wwoods | also July 1: autoqa (i.e. our tests and watcher scripts) packaged for deployment on infrastructure-run systems Jun 17 12:57
wwoods | all test cases automated by July 24 Jun 17 12:57
wwoods | initial report generation by Aug 1 Jun 17 12:58
wwoods | er, Aug 4 Jun 17 12:58
f13 | FYI, Kyle (owner of that domain) wasn't aware of the proposal. I've just pointed him to it Jun 17 12:58
wwoods | (IIRC that's Alpha freeze) Jun 17 12:58
f13 | wwoods: july1 is going to be a bit tough to meet, given my trip to Germany Jun 17 12:58
wwoods | well, it's a tentative schedule Jun 17 12:59
f13 | ok Jun 17 12:59
f13 | I'll do my best Jun 17 12:59
wwoods | the only target I'd really be sad to miss is having reports happening daily by Aug 18 (F12a release) Jun 17 12:59
jlaska | I don't know if we've got owners for each of these pieces ... so that's a good point Jun 17 12:59
f13 | but I basically have 3 days left to get it done Jun 17 12:59
jlaska | if there are things that only you can do we may need to adjust as needed Jun 17 13:00
f13 | well 4 if you count the 30th Jun 17 13:00
biertie | can we (the fedora-be guy's) have the channel now? =) Jun 17 13:00
adamw | yikes, someone took our overflow slot? Jun 17 13:00
adamw | we're doomed =) Jun 17 13:00
--- | stickster is now known as stickster_afk Jun 17 13:00
--- | stickster_afk is now known as stickster Jun 17 13:00
wwoods | f13: thanks for notifying kyle about that - it's not *required* that we use that domain, but hey, if we have it.. Jun 17 13:01
jlaska | biertie: sorry for overflow ... we'll wrap up here Jun 17 13:01
biertie | jlaska: np ^^ Jun 17 13:01
wwoods | sorry for running long on this topic Jun 17 13:01
wwoods | but I think I've covered the plan pretty well Jun 17 13:01
biertie | we have an overflow slot, so if we start 10minutes later, we just end 10minutes later too :D Jun 17 13:01
wwoods | bits of scheduling may need revisiting Jun 17 13:02
wwoods | but other than that I think we're good to go on the plan. Jun 17 13:02
f13 | We can retire over to #fedora-qa Jun 17 13:02
jlaska | wwoods: nice job on the plan Jun 17 13:03
jlaska | #action update on irb.com acceptance test plan Jun 17 13:03
jlaska | #topic Open Discussion Jun 17 13:03
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Jun 17 13:03
jlaska | I had one topic I wanted to mention, but we are short on time Jun 17 13:04
jlaska | had a good discussion with mchua yesterday about mediawiki+semantic. Don't have anything now, but hopefully we have some more news next week Jun 17 13:04
jlaska | any other notes before we wrap things up? Jun 17 13:04
jlaska | okay, closing things out for today Jun 17 13:06
jlaska | thanks everyone! Jun 17 13:06
jlaska | I'll follow-up to the list with minutes Jun 17 13:06
wwoods | jlaska: woo! thanks! Jun 17 13:06
jlaska | #endmeeting Jun 17 13:06
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule. Jun 17 13:06
fedbot | Meeting ended Wed Jun 17 17:08:09 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Jun 17 13:06
fedbot | Minutes: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-17-16.02.html Jun 17 13:06
fedbot | Log: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-17-16.02.log.html Jun 17 13:06
jlaska | biertie: thanks for your patience! Jun 17 13:07
--- | biertie has changed the topic to: fedora be meeting - start up Jun 17 13:07
biertie | jlaska: np :) Jun 17 13:07

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