QA/Meetings/20100104

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Contents

Attendees

People present (lines said)

  • jlaska (154)
  • adamw (57)
  • Viking-Ice (19)
  • maxamillion (17)
  • wwoods (12)
  • kparal (8)
  • nirik (4)
  • zodbot (3)
  • buggbot (1)

Regrets:

Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  1. jlaska to post recommendations on F-12 QA retrospective
  2. adamw to escalate security policy issue to fesco
  3. jlaska to set up a meeting to co-ordinate test plan changes for F13
  4. adamw and jlaska to look at setting up f13 test day process

F-13 Recommendations

Discussion around the proposed QA changes for F-13 based on Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations. Begin identifying gaps and owners.

Process

See Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Process_4

Move User:Liam/Draft_Install_Test_SOP out of draft status - to me this is part of making install testing easier.

Move User:Poelstra/blocker_bug_meeting_sop out of draft status - adamw had some improvements during FUDCon, I think we just need to dust it off before the blocker reviews kick in again

Draft a SOP (or extract from existing BugsAndFeatureRequests page) that describes how to document bugs (e.g. common_bugs or release notes or install guide etc...). Adamw noted that while no single page exists now, each location includes information on how to contribute. Adamw and Jlaska wondered if there was a way to provide a single page that links to existing documentation so that we can easily direct the efforts of testers who wish to provide documentation/workarounds for bugs they've found. jlaska took action to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place


Draft/promote a recommended test checklist for rawhide testers (for example see User:Jlaska/Draft2) - this is something spot discussed a while ago and adamw drafted an idea. I think it would be worthwhile to reference from the QA/Joining page ... ideas?

'How to debug <component> problems?' -- Determine whether guides can be offered by Fedora QA as a result of a test day/feature process. Viking-Ice asked for more details. Jlaska explained that this was largely intended to follow the successful model Viking-Ice initiated by starting the debugging guide for the F-12 dracut feature (see How_to_debug_Dracut_problems). Viking-Ice offered to review the list of upcoming features for good debug guide candidates (see Releases/13/FeatureList).

Adamw offered assistance adding/improving installation testing to the current QA activities page.

Planning

See Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Test_Planning_3

Jlaska noted that Liam and Hurry are doing a lot of heavy lifting with regards to beefing up the installation test plan. There are several wiki improvements coming aimed to improve posting test results, new test cases for yum repos, a lot of improvements to existing tests and a reorganization of priorities based on the updated release criteria.

Adam reminded the group that a ticket has been filed for FESCO review regarding a security checklist/test plan. Adam also started drafting test cases to cover the desktop verification from Fedora_Release_Criteria (see Category:Desktop_Acceptance_Test_Cases).

Viking-Ice raised the topic of creating an xorg-x11-drv test plan. Adam mentioned that this was a big discussion topic during the team sprint. The problem space is that we want to test available X hardware. The community provides this pool of hardware, but we have no means to gather and organize feedback in the short timeframe that would be meaningful for the X developers. The current test coverage for X consists of driver-specific test days (intel, nouveau and radeon), and providing information to aid testers to properly triage failures (see How_to_debug_Xorg_problems).

Viking-Ice, nirik and Adamw discussed fedoraforum.org user feedback. Adam felt that the 2 biggest areas of feedback were around 1) HELP MY X/COMPIZ DOESN'T WORK and 2) HELP MY PROPRIETARY DRIVER DOESN'T WORK. The first area is already covered, and the second point is out of our scope.


Viking-Ice took action to investigate adding an LXDE test day to the F-13 test day schedule. Similarly, maxamillion took action to schedule an XFCE test day on the F-13 test day schedule.

Jlaska took an action item to reach out to User:Mclasen for information on any Fit'n'Finish test day plans for F-13.

Communication

See Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Communication_4

Adam offered assistance improving the QA wiki pages to include any install activities. Jlaska suggested that Hurry had some initial ideas here, and perhaps they could sync up.

Automation

See Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Test_Automation

Not a lot of discussion on this point during hte meeting since each meeting typically devotes time AutoQA status updates.

While discussing 'Deploying AutoQA 'is rawhide broken?', Jlaska was reminded to reach out to fedora-{test,devel}-list for trading package reviews.

Some discussion followed on whether rpmlint and rpmguard should be merged. Kparal suggested that the two projects have different goals and there is value in keeping them separate.

Wwoods noted that assisting Liam and Hurry by helping to build the autoqa install automation fundamentals would be a focus area for the new year. Will mentioned the inputs needed for any install test; 1) a description of the test system, 2) a URL to a kickstart file, 3) a URL to an install source. Jlaska noted that he included those three points in an email to Liam before the break. Jlaska will catch up with Liam to see if he is having fun with python.

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Upcoming QA events

  • 2010-01-21 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
  • 2010-01-28 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
  • 2010-01-04 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
  • 2010-02-05 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #1
  • 2010-02-11 - Test Alpha 'Test Compose' (boot media testing)
  • 2010-02-12 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #2

Action items

  • Viking-Ice investigating adding an LXDE test day to the F-13 test day schedule
  • maxamillion investigating scheduling a XFCE test day to F-13 test day schedule
  • adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity
  • jlaska will reach out to mclasen for thoughts on F-13 fit'n'finish test days
  • jlaska to reach out ot fedora-{test,devel}-list for trading reviews
  • jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place


IRC transcript

jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 16:01
zodbot Meeting started Mon Jan 4 16:01:14 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:01
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:01
jlaska #meetingname qa 16:01
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'qa' 16:01
jlaska #topic gathering 16:01
adamw hellllo 16:02
jlaska Howdy folks ... let's do a show of hands 16:02
* wwoods shows off his hands 16:02
jlaska ooh, look at those hands 16:02
wwoods theyr'e the new '10 model 16:02
* kparal waves too 16:02
adamw who'd you cut them off? and where'd you get the jars? 16:02
* Viking-Ice raises his hand for a high five on the new year.. 16:02
wwoods Viking-Ice: o/ \o 16:03
jlaska down low 16:03
adamw wwoods can give you a high twenty 16:03
jlaska alright ... let's get things started 16:04
jlaska we've got a light agenda today ... but always room for 'open discussion' 16:04
jlaska #topic Previous meeting follow-up 16:04
jlaska okay ... trying to figure out which meeting was the previous 16:04
jlaska the last set of tasks I'm tracking are listed at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20100104#Previous_meeting_follow-up 16:05
jlaska #info jlaska to post recommendations on F-12 QA retrospective 16:05
jlaska these are posted and available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations 16:05
jlaska I've left most of the agenda for walking through this 16:05
jlaska next I've got ... 16:06
jlaska #info adamw to escalate security policy issue to fesco 16:06
jlaska I don't have any updates on that one ... did that already happen? 16:07
adamw err. i think i filed a ticket. just a sec 16:07
adamw yeah, I did 16:07
adamw https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/297 16:07
jlaska ah great 16:08
adamw no reply yet 16:08
* jlaska lost the linky 16:08
jlaska so that'll come up for discussion at the next FESCO meeting right? 16:08
jlaska Next up ... 16:08
jlaska #info jlaska to set up a meeting to co-ordinate test plan changes for F13 16:08
jlaska We had a quick sprint the week prior to Christmas with adamw, lili, rhe and myself walking through the list of F-13 test plan tickets 16:09
jlaska still lots of kinks to iron out in the sprint process, and there are still a few inprogress tickets 16:10
* jlaska searches for ticket query 16:10
jlaska https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=Test+Review&milestone=Fedora+13&order=priority 16:11
jlaska I'll circle back and bump the status on a few of those later today 16:11
jlaska last item ... 16:11
jlaska #info adamw and jlaska to look at setting up f13 test day process 16:11
jlaska No updates from me on this ... I'd like to chat w/ adamw this week to iron out an approach 16:12
maxamillion is there something that is going to be greatly different from the last test day process(es)? 16:12
jlaska we've got initial ideas posted to the wiki already ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:QA/Fedora_13_test_days 16:12
jlaska maxamillion: I don't expect so ... just need to get on top of it and actively work the schedule 16:13
jlaska okay, anything not mentioned? 16:13
maxamillion ah, nice 16:13
maxamillion I'll be sure to read that later 16:13
jlaska if not ... we'll jump into the F-13 QA recommendations 16:14
jlaska maxamillion: cool, and of course, test day topic suggestions encouraged too! 16:14
jlaska #topic F-13 QA Recommendations 16:14
jlaska So ... I've taking all the QA retrospective feedback and tried to organize things into several groups 16:14
maxamillion jlaska: I'll be working with kevin and christoph on the xfce spin test day plans and try to add suggestions if I find any :) 16:15
jlaska maxamillion: awesome, that's just what I had in mind. Any additional spin test days would be fun (much like the sugar event) 16:15
Viking-Ice I was thinking about going knee deep in LXDE so I should be able to write something.. 16:15
maxamillion Viking-Ice: be sure to touch base with cwickert, i'm sure he'd welcome the interest in LXDE 16:16
jlaska so I've organized the feedback into the following themes: process, planning, communication and automation 16:16
jlaska these aren't hard themes, just what bubbled up from how I read the data 16:16
jlaska so there is overlap between these themes .. but in general, I was happy with the grouping 16:17
Viking-Ice maxamillion: I was planning to hear from him.. 16:17
maxamillion Viking-Ice: cool cool :) 16:17
jlaska maxamillion: Viking-Ice should I add an action item for next week on this? or too soon? 16:17
jlaska ^--> re: LXDE and XFCE spin test days? 16:17
Viking-Ice you can add action item for me 16:18
jlaska okay 16:18
maxamillion we could do next week, that would give me a bit of motivation to get on the ball about it 16:18
maxamillion errr I* 16:18
* Viking-Ice works best under pressure.. 16:18
jlaska #action Viking-Ice investigating adding an LXDE test day to the F-13 test day schedule 16:18
jlaska #action maxamillion investigating scheduling a XFCE test day to F-13 test day schedule 16:19
maxamillion w00t! my first action item in the QA world :P 16:20
jlaska maxamillion: heh, you've arrived :D 16:20
jlaska so have folks had a chance to look through the recommendations? 16:20
jlaska https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations 16:20
jlaska there shouldn't be surprises there ... I've basically reorganized the feedback provided 16:21
jlaska what I'd like to do is walk through the list and see if we can identify owners for some of the tasks 16:21
maxamillion jlaska: do you want to #link that so its in the minutes? (that might not even be the right tag, but you get the idea) :) 16:21
jlaska maxamillion: sure ... 16:21
jlaska #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations 16:22
adamw just refreshing my memory 16:22
jlaska many of the listed recommendations are things several of you are already on top of 16:23
adamw i could take "Promote install testing as a QA activity" 16:23
jlaska adamw: thanks, Hurry has some ideas on this already ... would you two like to sync up? 16:24
jlaska perhaps her experience on the install side iwth your wiki mastery can come up with some good ideas 16:24
adamw also most of the 'communication' stuff 16:24
adamw well yeah i was just meaning i could do the wiki bits 16:25
adamw stick me in a #action 16:25
Viking-Ice I need a little explanation with this "Determine whether guides can be offered by Fedora QA as a result of a test day/feature process" 16:25
jlaska #action adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity 16:25
jlaska adamw: kparal had some social networking suggestions already, perhaps we can divide and conquer there? 16:26
jlaska Viking-Ice: my thinking there was to follow your lead for dracut 16:26
kparal not really mine suggestions, but I can help 16:26
jlaska kparal: oh right ...these were from the lunch'n'learn 16:26
kparal correct 16:27
Viking-Ice Advertice on the Fedora Project network on FB 16:27
jlaska Viking-Ice: basically, that dracut debug page rocks ... I'd like to see we can follow that model again for maybe a few features? 16:27
jlaska what do you think? 16:27
Viking-Ice sounds raz.. 16:27
Viking-Ice I'll run through the feature stuff and see what I can write.. 16:28
jlaska Viking-Ice: sweet, I think that would be tremendously helpful. I just don't know a good way to target specfiic features 16:28
jlaska dracut was a good choice since it was something *everyone* would need 16:28
jlaska perhaps python3 might be similar in that regard? or others 16:29
jlaska #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/FeatureList 16:30
jlaska #topic F-13 QA Recommendations - test planning 16:30
jlaska on the test planning front ... much of this is already underway 16:31
jlaska #info Maintenance of the Fedora Install Test Plan - Liam and Hurry are doing a lot of heavy lifting here 16:31
jlaska #info Draft a more formal, but basic and lightweight, security checklist/test plan - discussed earlier, adamw has a fesco ticket filed ... stay tuned 16:31
jlaska #info Draft a test plan to cover the desktop verification from Fedora_Release_Criteria 16:32
jlaska #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Release_Criteria 16:32
kparal I noticed adamw is creating test plan for the desktop stuff: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Desktop_Acceptance_Test_Cases 16:32
adamw yeah, i'm in teh middle of that 16:32
adamw got about halfway through before the xmas break 16:32
adamw will be back on it this week 16:32
jlaska kparal: perfect, thanks for the link 16:32
kparal I will gladly help with that if time permits 16:33
adamw sure, if anyone wants to chip in tests that'd be great 16:33
Viking-Ice I think we need to get in touch with the X team to come up with an formal Xorg test plan ( not just x11-drv-* ) 16:33
jlaska Viking-Ice: good segway ... that was next 16:33
adamw well we talked about that quite a lot at the sprint 16:33
jlaska #info We have no formal Xorg-x11-drv test plan ... either create one, or develop proposal for gathering the same feedback through other means (smolt, bugzilla) 16:33
adamw i actually don't think a test plan for X would achieve much 16:33
adamw we started doing a test matrix then realized it was pretty pointless 16:33
jlaska adamw: can you talk more about how we came to that conclusion? 16:34
adamw the tricky thing with X is that the main problem with it is that we're dealing with seventy zillion different bits of hardware 16:34
jlaska yeah that ---^ :) 16:34
adamw and the level of functionality we currently care about is pretty basic, this isn't really deep level stuff 16:34
maxamillion I think there could be a matrix of hardware and "Works for Me" and maybe some break down of how much works (KMS, direct rendering, etc) 16:34
adamw the types of problems we get with X are not 'this one out of the millions of really complex levels of functionality suddenly regressed' but 'o shit this card doesn't work any more' 16:35
adamw maxamillion: that would rapidly get HORRIBLY unsustainable 16:35
jlaska maxamillion: if someone wanted to look into how to pull this out of smolt and present the information ... that would be a fun project 16:35
adamw i really can't emphasize the amount of hardware we're talking about here enough 16:35
maxamillion adamw: for a test day? 16:35
Viking-Ice what about input ( keyboards usb etc ) and for example multitouch ? 16:35
maxamillion or you mean long term 16:35
adamw we already do test days 16:35
maxamillion  ? 16:35
maxamillion oh ok, i misunderstood 16:35
adamw we're talking about some kind of test plan 16:35
maxamillion sorry, I'm in a meeting at $dayjob and trying to keep up with this one ... don't mind me :P 16:36
adamw i just don't think that's an approach that fixes the X situation; it's not the paradigm that addresses the kinds of problems we actually get with X 16:36
maxamillion adamw: yeah, I agree 16:36
jlaska maxamillion: no it's a good suggestion ... it's just trying to figure out how to sustainably execute the plan and track the data 16:36
adamw Viking-Ice: um. in theory an input matrix is a useful idea, but in practice it kinda depends how much we care about anything besides basic mouse+keyboard stuff 16:36
adamw er, s/matrix/test plan/ 16:37
adamw multitouch is way too basic at this point to worry about 16:37
adamw you can't really _use_ it in any meaningful way yet 16:37
adamw jlaska still reckons some kind of test plan for X is a good idea, but i still don't quite understand exactly what we can achieve with one that we're not achieving already; this is where we left it in the sprint :) 16:37
jlaska one way we can use the existing test cases is much how they've been used so far 16:37
jlaska for test days and for use to help isolate the true failure of reported bugs 16:38
Viking-Ice adamw: Ok Talking about meaningful did we receive any feed back from nirik and others on the front ( forums #fedora etc ) about what they get bombarded with ( perhaps something we should track and target for test days ) 16:39
jlaska Viking-Ice: good suggestion 16:39
* nirik looks up. 16:39
adamw well, i'm mostly on teh front for X stuff, and yeah, we do co-ordinate a bit on that 16:39
nirik you mean specific stuff? or in general areas we see a lot of stuff? 16:40
jlaska nirik: other soft spots from the F-12 release that could modify the QA plan for F-13 16:40
Viking-Ice all proprietary aside the issues most end users are faced with 16:40
adamw i don't think we can add much to our process based on that feedback. i'd say broadly what you get splits into two camps: 'HELP MY X/COMPIZ DOESN'T WORK' and 'HELP MY PROPRIETARY DRIVER DOESN'T WORK' 16:40
adamw second is out of our scope 16:40
adamw first is already covered 16:40
* nirik nods. 16:40
jlaska true 16:40
jlaska okay ... last I have on the planning side is Test Days 16:41
adamw as i said, X is fundamentally a shallow area: the issues are due to hardware variety (and the developers rewriting everything every three months). there just isn't a complex tangle of functionality to test 16:41
jlaska adamw: if we had a pull of every hardware adapter available ... would there be some type of feedback to provide to X maintainers that would be valuable? 16:42
nirik having the list of workarounds especially for install has been great on the common bugs list. 16:42
jlaska oh god ... s/pull/pool/ 16:42
adamw well, yeah. if we had a Big Test Lab with every graphics adapter in the world in it, sure. what they'd be interested in is knowing with every day's rawhide which systems basically worked. for bonus points, which could do enough 3D to run compiz. 16:43
jlaska heh 16:43
adamw i mean, that's really it. like i keep saying, it's not complicated =) 16:43
jlaska adamw: so instead, we have a highly distributed test lab 16:43
adamw there was that thread about 'stop working on rawhide and work on f12' or whatever on devel-list 16:43
wwoods (if you consider the set of Interested Fedora Users as a distributed test lab..) 16:43
adamw dave airlie (or ajax, I forget) posted the X team's List Of Things We Really Care About to that thread, which is basically what I just said 16:44
jlaska wwoods: true true 16:44
jlaska adamw: gotcha 16:44
jlaska alright ... so last I had on the planning topic was test days 16:44
jlaska anyone know if they are plans to revisit the 'fit and finish' events? 16:44
Viking-Ice adamw: Big Test Lab the world not enough ;) 16:44
jlaska if not, I can follow-up w/ mclasen 16:44
adamw sure. how i look at that is that the blocking points in that way of looking at things all involve making the lab work efficiently. the test plan is not part of that. the test plan defines _what to test_, which as I keep saying is really simple and everyone knows it already 16:44
adamw all the problems with X testing, if we look at the 'the world is a big test lab' theory, lie in actually co-ordinating the distributed systems and people who make up the 'lab' to do testing and provide useful info. which a test plan can't really help with, i don' think. but hey. sorry, jlaska wants to move on :) 16:45
jlaska adamw, no thanks ... you explained it better than I could have hoped to 16:46
Viking-Ice Let's move along.. 16:46
jlaska #action jlaska will reach out to mclasen for thoughts on F-13 fit'n'finish test days 16:47
jlaska okay ... any other suggestions on the test planning side for F-13? 16:47
jlaska for reference ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Test_Planning_3 16:47
jlaska alright ... the next group is where wwoods and kparal rock 16:48
jlaska #topic F-13 QA Recommendations - test automation 16:48
jlaska #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Test_Automation 16:48
jlaska The first obvious one is ... 16:48
jlaska #info Deploy AutoQA 'is rawhide broken?' front-end into fedora infrastructure 16:49
jlaska this is inprogress ... and going through package review at the moment 16:49
jlaska #action jlaska to reach out ot fedora-{test,devel}-list for trading reviews 16:49
jlaska #info Deploy build-time sanity checking mechanism for package maintainers (rpmguard, rpmlint etc...) 16:49
jlaska Kamil and Will are knee deep in this now 16:49
jlaska with both rpmlint and rpmguard working into the system 16:50
kparal and will be deeper :) 16:50
jlaska hehe 16:50
jlaska The last item I have here is 16:50
jlaska #ifo Develop proof-of-concept for automating install test matrix 16:50
jlaska #info Develop proof-of-concept for automating install test matrix 16:50
wwoods I'm pretty sure rpmguard will obsolete rpmlint eventually 16:50
kparal I don't think so, they have different goal 16:51
jlaska Liam and Hurry are working towards a automated DVD install test at the moment ... and then likely will need wwoods expertise for integrating the tests into AutoQA 16:51
wwoods kparal: hm, good point 16:51
wwoods jlaska: yeah, I think this will probably be my first big goal for the new year? 16:51
jlaska wwoods: cool, this would be huge to see traction on before F-13 kicks into high gear 16:52
jlaska Liam was looking into playing with install.py over the break and expanding it to do a basic DVD install ... I'll be checking in to see how he's making out soon 16:52
jlaska anything else under automation that wasn't covered ... that needs to be on the radar? 16:52
wwoods yeah, IIRC it involves designing a test that takes as input: 16:52
wwoods 1) a description of the test system hardware (disks, disk sizes), 16:53
wwoods 2) a kickstart (which describes partitioning etc), 16:53
wwoods 3) an installable tree/image 16:53
jlaska yeah, I should have cc'd you on the mail I sent him 16:53
jlaska basically the same list of inputs 16:53
wwoods pretty sure a test that would do that would cover the entire test matrix, but we'll see 16:53
jlaska okay ... we touched on each of the other sections already but here they are for the logs 16:54
jlaska #topic F-13 QA Recommendations - process 16:55
jlaska #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Process_4 16:55
Viking-Ice One thing that came to my mind when I hit bug 549944 is this something we can automate an test for ( looks like version mismatch ) 16:55
buggbot Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=549944 medium, low, ---, jskala, NEW, Updating ppp to 2.4.5-x breaks NetworkManager-pptp vpn connection... 16:55
jlaska Viking-Ice: hrmm, yeah if there's something there that could have been detecting with rpmguard, we can get a ticket in for a future test case idea 16:56
jlaska so for process ... I had a few things 16:57
jlaska #info Move User:Liam/Draft_Install_Test_SOP out of draft status - to me this is part of making install testing easier 16:57
jlaska #info Move User:Poelstra/blocker_bug_meeting_sop out of draft status - adamw had some improvements during FUDCon, I think we just need to dust it off before the blocker reviews kick in again 16:57
jlaska #info Draft a SOP (or extract from existing BugsAndFeatureRequests page) that describes how to document bugs (e.g. common_bugs or release notes or install guide etc...) 16:58
jlaska ^^^ I'm a simple caveman ... so the docs might already be out there, but I could stand to be reminded how we advise folks on documenting issues 16:58
adamw we don't have anything really 16:58
adamw well, each document advises people how to contribute to it 16:59
adamw the common_bugs page advises how to add to the common_bugs page 16:59
jlaska #info Draft/promote a recommended test checklist for rawhide testers (for example see User:Jlaska/Draft2) - this is something spot discussed a while ago and adamw drafted an idea. I think it would be worthwhile to reference from the QA/Joining page ... ideas? 16:59
adamw the docs team have a page explaining how to contribute to the release notes 16:59
adamw jlaska: we could probably stick it up as a page and just link it from one of the existing sections on Joining 16:59
adamw off the top of my head 16:59
jlaska adamw: yeah true ... I was looking for a single page that had pointed to the instructions and helped advise which place was relevant for different bugs 17:00
jlaska #info # 'How to debug <component> problems?' -- Determine whether guides can be offered by Fedora QA as a result of a test day/feature process. - Viking-Ice already discussed this previously 17:00
adamw jlaska: the problem with that is, what would drive people to the central page? 17:00
jlaska just like all other debug guides and doc pages ... we would 17:01
jlaska in our IRC discussions, mailing list interactions etc 17:01
adamw jlaska: well i don't see a natural flow, a real role for this central page 17:01
adamw hmm, i see 17:01
jlaska you don't .. cause you are the natural flow for this stuff! :D 17:01
adamw well that's what i'm trying to explain in a crappy way =) 17:01
jlaska hehe 17:01
jlaska I can take that action on that one for the release 17:02
adamw usually i can see a sorta natural 'place' for a new wiki page, where it would fit into the flow of reference from page to page...i'm not sure i can see a real good place for something new here...maybe beland would have an idea how to structure it 17:02
jlaska oooh, yeah he has a way with those kinds of wiki changes 17:02
jlaska I can reach out to beland for guidance/ideas if that makes sense 17:03
adamw sure 17:03
adamw maybe he can come up with a mockup that'd make me go 'ohhh yeah' 17:03
jlaska okay 17:03
jlaska #action jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place 17:04
jlaska #topic F-13 QA Recommendations - communication 17:05
jlaska #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Communication_4 17:05
jlaska I'm not going to spend time on this section, we discussed it earlier 17:05
jlaska so ... any other thoughts/concerns on the recommendations 17:05
jlaska I think we have a lot of good ideas 17:05
jlaska and I'd like for us to look back on this page after F-13 ... and say ... great, we did X% of what we said we would 17:06
jlaska regardless of what the value of X is 17:06
jlaska okay ... let's move on to open discussion 17:06
jlaska #topic Open discussion - <your topic here> 17:06
adamw nothing here 17:08
jlaska <crickets> 17:08
jlaska well, happy new year everyone and welcome back :) 17:08
jlaska I'm sure folks are still digging out from under email 17:08
Viking-Ice I propose that Fedora QA uses it's extensive forces and influences in the whole world to get a softer toilet paper to public toilets and conduct massive everyday testing on those paper.. 17:08
Viking-Ice in the year 2010 17:09
jlaska Viking-Ice: I'd like to see that test plan! 17:09
kparal  :)) 17:09
Viking-Ice I need to redraw it I accidentally flushed it down the drain.. 17:09
jlaska well, on that note ... 17:10
jlaska #endmeeting 17:10

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