QA/Meetings/20100111

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Contents

Attendees

People present (lines said)

  • kparal (129)
  • wwoods (47)
  • maxamillion (31)
  • jlaska (17)
  • cwickert (13)
  • lmacken (10)
  • Viking-Ice (9)
  • Oxf13 (7)
  • tk009_ (5)
  • nirik (4)
  • zodbot (3)

Regrets:

Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  • Viking-Ice investigating adding an LXDE test day to the F-13 test day schedule
  • maxamillion investigating scheduling a XFCE test day to F-13 test day schedule
  • adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity
  • jlaska will reach out to mclasen for thoughts on F-13 fit'n'finish test days
  • jlaska to reach out ot fedora-{test,devel}-list for trading reviews
  • jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place
    • No action taken yet

AutoQA project update

Discussion around the proposed QA changes for F-13 based on Fedora_12_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations. Begin identifying gaps and owners.

rpmguard package comparison

Kamil informed the team that rpmguard has been merged into master. Also, Kamil posted an update to his blog about the changes included in the new version (see http://kparal.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/rpmguard-a-wiki-page-and-a-new-output-format/). Along with an improved output format, Kamil also documented each of the tests performed by rpmguard on the wiki (see https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/wiki/rpmguard).

Kamil initiated discussion around designing a method for presenting package update test results (see https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-January/000110.html)

Deps/conflicts prevention

User:wwoods informed the team that a new hook will be required (post-bodhi-update). This AutoQA hook will trigger when someone files a new update request in bodhi. Wwoods has been working with lmacken to figure out how to query for that info (and fix some bugs in the bodhi API).

install automation

User:wwoods outlined the work needed to support integrating automated install tests into AutoQA by creatign a track milestone and several tickets to outline the eventual work required to integrate install automation into AutoQA.

User:lili and User:rhe have started exploring test design using the rats_install/install.py test as a starting point.

packaging/deployment

Current status on packaging:

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Upcoming QA events

  • 2010-01-21 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
  • 2010-01-28 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
  • 2010-01-04 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
  • 2010-02-05 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #1
  • 2010-02-11 - Test Alpha 'Test Compose' (boot media testing)
  • 2010-02-12 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #2

Action items

  • maxamillion bring back conversation about Xfce 4.8 updato on xfce@lists.fp.o and inform about conclusion
  • Viking-Ice write lxde tests and find a date for the test day
  • cwickert to file an infrastruture ticket for the lxde mailing list
  • adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity
  • jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place?

IRC transcript

kparal #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 16:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Jan 11 16:00:11 2010 UTC. The chair is kparal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00
kparal #meetingname qa 16:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'qa' 16:00
kparal #topic gathering 16:00
kparal ok, welcome all, let's start 16:00
* maxamillion is here ... but about to walk over to a meeting, taking laptop 16:00
kparal who's here? 16:00
* jlaska lurking ... but likely unresponsive :( 16:01
* tk009_ here 16:01
* kparal poking wwoods 16:01
tk009_ no one really seems to be about today 16:03
kparal ok, seems that's all for today 16:03
maxamillion ok, back 16:03
kparal I have an unfortunate message for you - jlaska is out, so I will lead the meeting 16:04
* Viking-Ice jumps in.. 16:04
kparal that means it will be short and poorly moderated :) 16:04
wwoods ack! pokes! 16:04
kparal I hoped to have wwoods help, but he's somewhere out too 16:04
kparal ah 16:04
kparal came to save me, good! 16:04
wwoods heh! 16:04
kparal alright, jlaska and adamw are not here. the same is probably for lili and rhe 16:05
kparal let's go on 16:05
wwoods sorry, was distracted fixing up my mail filters 16:05
kparal #topic Previous meeting follow-up 16:05
kparal #topic Previous meeting follow-up 16:05
kparal * Viking-Ice investigating adding an LXDE test day to the F-13 test day schedule 16:06
kparal any updates on that Viking-Ice? 16:06
* kparal still learning the meetbot tags 16:06
kparal #info Viking-Ice investigating adding an LXDE test day to the F-13 test day schedule 16:06
* jlaska encourages excessive use of # info :) 16:07
kparal ok, let's give some time to Viking-Ice 16:07
kparal #info maxamillion investigating scheduling a XFCE test day to F-13 test day schedule 16:07
maxamillion should I talk or wait for Viking-Ice to finish? 16:08
kparal go ahead 16:08
kparal he didn't start yet :) 16:08
maxamillion ok, so I spawned a conversation with cwickert and nirik and we've hashed out some good stuff as far as test planning and how to improve the test-day, we've also started as xfce@lists.fedoraproject.org because we want to start getting more of a community built around the Xfce SIG/Spin 16:09
kparal nice 16:09
maxamillion we discussed the possibility of pushing forward with Xfce 4.8 and the testing/QA implications that would bring up and considered submitting it as a feature 16:09
Viking-Ice sorry I to finish some stuff here @ work 16:10
maxamillion but after some review and some discussion with upstream there is potential for the release to slip and we don't feel there would be enough time to test thoroughly 16:10
kparal Viking-Ice: no problem 16:10
cwickert maxamillion: I talked to Jannis, the release manager today and he said he thinks they will be on time 16:10
maxamillion but we do plan to be working closely with upstream in pushing 4.8 to rawhide as soon as possible after the Fedora 13 branch 16:11
wwoods maxamillion: sounds like a prudent decision 16:11
maxamillion cwickert: oh? 16:11
maxamillion cwickert: should we bring that back up on xfce@lists.fp.o for a topic of conversation? 16:11
cwickert ok 16:11
Viking-Ice spoke to cwickert and he agreed on having an lxde test day would be a great idea next task write lxde test and find a date for the day 16:11
cwickert for the interested, here is the detailles schedule: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Xfce48#Detailed_Description 16:11
kparal Viking-Ice: just a second to let maxamillion finish, thanks 16:12
maxamillion cwickert: oh! awesome, thanks for the info and the link 16:12
maxamillion kparal: can you #link that wiki page please? 16:12
kparal sure 16:12
cwickert #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Xfce48#Detailed_Description 16:12
kparal #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Xfce48#Detailed_Description 16:12
maxamillion kparal: thank you :) 16:12
kparal feel free to correct my moderation :) 16:12
kparal maxamillion: should I give you another action point for the next week? 16:12
maxamillion lol 16:12
* nirik notes no need for link, it should just pick up anything that looks like a URI. 16:13
maxamillion kparal: uhmmm... yeah, I think that would be a good idea. Label it something along the lines of "Xfce 4.8 update" 16:13
maxamillion nirik: good to know 16:13
kparal #action maxamillion bring back conversation about Xfce 4.8 updato on xfce@lists.fp.o and inform about conclusion 16:14
kparal alright, anything to add or let Viking-Ice talk? 16:14
maxamillion that's more or less all I've got for now, I still need to update a wiki page on the Xfce test day stuff, but that's about all I have to report 16:14
kparal ok, thanks 16:14
maxamillion anytime :) 16:15
kparal Viking-Ice: are you ready now? 16:15
Viking-Ice Ah yeas spoke to cwickert and he agreed on having an lxde test day would be a great idea next #action write lxde tests and find a date for the day 16:15
kparal #info Viking-Ice investigating adding an LXDE test day to the F-13 test day schedule 16:15
kparal Viking-Ice: assign that action item to you I suppose? 16:15
Viking-Ice It would be good to have an lxde mailing list ( since it's twice as popular as XFCE ) 16:15
Viking-Ice kparal yes 16:15
cwickert especially the new login manager LXDE will need to be tested 16:15
kparal #action Viking-Ice write lxde tests and find a date for the day 16:15
* wwoods senses a growing rivalry 16:16
cwickert wwoods: between Xfce and LXDE? nope, it's getting better in fact 16:16
maxamillion wwoods: not yet, but we might need to spawn one ;) 16:16
kparal so who can we talk about new mailing list for lxde? 16:16
cwickert there were some problems in the past, but we figured them out and work together now 16:17
kparal *talk to 16:17
maxamillion but yeah ... we actually have a pretty good working relationship, similar ideals but very different approach and solution 16:17
cwickert nirik: can you set up lxde@lists.fedoraproject.org? 16:17
nirik kparal: file a infrastructure ticket. 16:17
tk009_ jds2001 for mailing list 16:17
cwickert and add me as admin? 16:17
nirik yeah, I can at some point here... or if you file a ticket someone else could get to it first. ;) 16:17
Viking-Ice I suppose so if you are up for it.. 16:18
kparal nirik: anyone can file a ticket? 16:18
nirik yes. 16:18
maxamillion anyone with a FAS account 16:18
cwickert #action cwickert to file an infrastruture ticket for the lxde mailing list 16:18
wwoods (oh it seems like a *friendly* rivarly. the best kind!) 16:18
maxamillion https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ 16:18
kparal alright. meetbot registers the action items even for non-moderators, right? 16:18
cwickert not sure 16:19
tk009_ no 16:19
kparal #action cwickert to file an infrastruture ticket for the lxde mailing list 16:19
kparal ok 16:19
maxamillion wwoods: lol, yeah .... I was honestly a bit surprised to see the popularity of lxde .... I wasn't aware, but good for them! Its a great project :) 16:19
tk009_ people want a smaller footprint it makes sense 16:19
Viking-Ice goes in circle I suppose.. 16:20
maxamillion yup, and with netbooks being so popular its even more prevelent 16:20
kparal perfect, anything else on mind on this topic? 16:20
Viking-Ice nothing from me.. 16:20
kparal ok, thanks Viking-Ice 16:21
kparal now we have here a few action items for which the people are not available right now 16:21
kparal * adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity 16:21
* maxamillion throws #info at kparal 16:21
maxamillion  :) 16:21
kparal so I guess I will just reschedule them for next meeting 16:21
kparal #info adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity 16:22
kparal #action adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity 16:22
* kparal catches, thanks maxamillion 16:22
kparal #info jlaska will reach out to mclasen for thoughts on F-13 fit'n'finish test days 16:22
wwoods kparal: also we can ask adamw/rhe (whenever they are around) to put a post on the planet if they have anything new and shiny to talk about 16:22
kparal wwoods: good idea 16:22
maxamillion kparal: anytime ;) 16:22
cwickert here is the link to the LXDE mailing list ticket: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1921 16:23
kparal #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1921 16:23
cwickert thanks 16:23
kparal jlaska or mclasen here? 16:23
kparal seems not, let's reschedule 16:23
kparal #action jlaska will reach out to mclasen for thoughts on F-13 fit'n'finish test days 16:24
jlaska kparal: I updated my status on the wiki . 16:24
jlaska just a bit late for updates sorry :( 16:24
kparal jlaska: oh sorry, didn't refresh 16:24
kparal so update from jlaska: Ideas posted to Talk:QA/Fedora_13_test_days. A main fit'n'finish track is likely not in plan for F-13. 16:24
jlaska kparal: no worries ... I was late to post :( 16:24
kparal #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:QA/Fedora_13_test_days 16:25
kparal so it seems there will be no main fit'n'finish track for F13 16:25
kparal another item 16:25
kparal #info jlaska to reach out ot fedora-{test,devel}-list for trading reviews 16:26
kparal update from jlaska: Request sent, see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2010-January/msg00127.html 16:26
kparal #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2010-January/msg00127.html 16:26
jlaska kparal: I'm still looking for some help there ... so if anyone is interested in the first of many package reviews related to autoqa ... this is a nice way to help the project 16:26
kparal jlaska: I think pmuller offered some package review, am I right? 16:27
wwoods oh yeah, so all the lists have moved to lists.fedoraproject.org 16:27
wwoods so: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-January/043856.html 16:27
kparal ah 16:27
wwoods same message, just in the new location 16:27
kparal #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-January/043856.html 16:27
kparal thanks wwoods 16:27
jlaska kparal: oh I musted have missed any comments from pmuller 16:28
jlaska kparal: is this for beakerlib review or for autotest-client? 16:28
kparal jlaska: I heard something on the conference call we had about beakerlib 16:28
kparal jlaska: but I may be wrong 16:28
jlaska kparal: oh right ... you're right ... that should be posted soon 16:28
kparal ok, if anyone interested in package reviewing, you know where to go 16:29
kparal last action item 16:29
kparal #info jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place 16:29
kparal no action taken on that yet, so just reschedule 16:30
kparal #action jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place 16:30
kparal and now for something completely different 16:30
kparal #topic AutoQA project update 16:30
kparal wwoods: any news on your front? 16:30
kparal (save me from typing for some time :)) 16:31
wwoods heh! let's see 16:31
wwoods mostly I've been: 1) filing/updating tickets for future work with respect to installation testing 16:31
wwoods we have a new(ish) milestone: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/Automate%20installation%20test%20plan 16:32
kparal #topic AutoQA project update - install automation 16:32
kparal #link https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/Automate%20installation%20test%20plan 16:32
wwoods the tickets (mostly) outline the work that will need to be done to lay groundwork for automating the installation test plan 16:32
wwoods there's some improvements needed in our little autoqa virtguest library 16:32
kparal #info wwoods updated tickets regarding install automation 16:32
wwoods and some other setup code and things 16:32
wwoods mostly that was from some discussions at FUDCon and the documentation sprint just before the new year 16:33
wwoods I don't expect that we'll begin work on that stuff *immediately* 16:33
wwoods the autoqa depcheck test(s) are coming first 16:34
wwoods that's: 16:34
wwoods https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/autoqa%20depcheck 16:34
kparal #topic AutoQA project update - Deps/conflicts prevention 16:34
kparal # link https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/autoqa%20depcheck 16:34
kparal #link https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/autoqa%20depcheck 16:34
wwoods this requires a new hook - post-bodhi-update - which should trigger when someone files a new update request in bodhi 16:34
wwoods I've been working with lmacken to figure out how to query for that info 16:34
wwoods (and fix some bugs in the bodhi API) 16:35
kparal #info wwoods working with lmacken to figure out how to query bodhi 16:35
lmacken I'll be hacking on the API today, and hopefully have a new release into staging today/tomorrow 16:35
wwoods lmacken: awesome, thank you 16:35
kparal very nice 16:35
maxamillion ninja status 16:35
maxamillion  :P 16:35
wwoods so that milestone is missing the important ticket - actually write the depcheck test 16:36
wwoods I'll file that in a bit 16:36
kparal  :) 16:36
kparal ok, thank you for the info wwoods 16:36
lmacken wwoods: so we'll probably want bodhi to prevent an updates push if there is an autoqa depcheck job in progress, or if some updates failed it, I assume? 16:36
wwoods so that's what I'm working on at the moment - that and working with kparal on rpmguard, which was just merged into the master branch of autoqa 16:36
wwoods lmacken: each update will be checked individually - we'll want some way to flag updates which fail the test 16:37
wwoods and/or prevent them from being pushed 16:37
lmacken wwoods: gotcha. will autoQA have a JSON API, or somethign? 16:37
wwoods I assume the simple implementation would just be to add negative karma from autoqa 16:37
lmacken or will bodhi have to listen to the AMQP bus? 16:37
lmacken ah, having autoqa add a comment to bodhi would be great 16:38
kparal wwoods: is satisfactory just not to push it automatically, or you want the owner to prevent push until some QA approves or issue is fixed? 16:38
lmacken that would make things much easier 16:38
Oxf13 well autoqa right now is all about testing, not so much with the reporting right? 16:38
Oxf13 we still need to have a test results tracking software? 16:38
wwoods right - currently autoqa doesn't really have anything to query 16:38
wwoods in the future it'll be emitting AMQP messages on test completion, I'm sure 16:38
wwoods but that's the Glorious Future and we're stuck in the grim present 16:39
Oxf13 and our test results software would be listening on the bus to get it's updates 16:39
wwoods so: initial simple implementation would just be to have the test give karma and a useful message 16:39
kparal #info Glorious Future will be better than grim present 16:40
wwoods near-future we may want a special way for autoqa to mark an update as bad, or to give autoqa power to retract a request 16:40
wwoods kparal: ha 16:40
kparal  :) 16:40
wwoods lmacken: so give some thought to a good way to implement that and we'll talk more about it once there's actually a working hook/test 16:41
lmacken wwoods: sounds good 16:41
wwoods on the koji side we have a vague idea how to implement it - have new builds land in, say, dist-blah-candidate-untested 16:41
wwoods and autoqa will have the power to move packages that pass their tests to dist-blah-candidate 16:41
Oxf13 (or something that listens to autoqa output) 16:42
wwoods right 16:42
lmacken hmm... we could also move tested builds to dist-f13-updates-tested, or something, and only mash autoqa-tested tags 16:42
lmacken from a bodhi perspective 16:42
wwoods lmacken: interesting - we'll talk more about this later, I'm sure 16:42
lmacken yeah, I'll churn on it 16:42
kparal ok, thank you guys 16:43
kparal well, now I will say a few words about my stuff 16:43
kparal #topic AutoQA project update - rpmguard package comparison 16:43
kparal so, there are some updates on rpmguard 16:43
kparal first of all it's finally merged in master, thanks to wwoods 16:43
kparal so it's closer to be really working then ever 16:44
wwoods \o/ 16:44
kparal #info rpmguard merged in master 16:44
kparal also, I have created a small blogpost about recent updates 16:44
kparal #link http://kparal.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/rpmguard-a-wiki-page-and-a-new-output-format/ 16:44
kparal I have created a separate wiki page for rpmguard, so it should be easier now to collect all basic data - what, where, why, when 16:45
kparal  :) 16:45
kparal #link https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/wiki/rpmguard 16:45
kparal there's even some origin of a documentation 16:45
kparal I have also changed the output format to be more rpmlint-like 16:46
kparal the small task ahead is to start sending output to autoqa-results 16:46
* jlaska a fan of the updated output format :) 16:46
kparal and the big task ahead is to publish results in some other format then 50 emails/day 16:47
wwoods heh 16:47
kparal which I have started to discuss in autoqa-devel today 16:47
kparal ok, that would be about rpmguard 16:48
kparal #topic AutoQA project update - packaging/deployment 16:48
kparal there is some update from jlaska about packaging autoqa 16:48
kparal let's copy n paste it here 16:48
kparal autotest-client - awaiting review - RHBZ #548522 16:48
kparal autoqa - packaged (see autoqa-0.3-2.fc12.src.rpm), will submit once autotest-client is accepted 16:48
kparal gwt-* - investigating scope of packaging needed 16:49
kparal autotest - packaged (see autotest-0.11.0-4.el5.src.rpm, will submit for review after gwt* accepted 16:49
kparal so, the things are moving forward, good job, jlaska :) 16:49
jlaska packaging gwt's deps is going to be a nightmare 16:49
Oxf13 yes 16:49
Oxf13 because each dep will spawn another 2 or 3 deps 16:49
wwoods blarg 16:50
jlaska I'll be soliciting help on that task 16:50
Oxf13 if not more 16:50
kparal let's employ ghostbusters 16:50
wwoods is it worth trying to do a sprint or something? 16:50
jlaska wwoods: yeah ... that was one suggestion 16:50
* wwoods thinks of it as more of a siege 16:50
jlaska wwoods: once I close our scoping all the packaging changes ... that would be one good idea to tackle it 16:50
kparal #info jlaska considering a sprint about packaging gwt 16:50
kparal sorry, I have been disconnected 16:51
maxamillion jlaska: did anyone review your autotest-client package yet? 16:51
jlaska maxamillion: there was an updated comment this morning ... I'll be checking that shortly 16:52
* jlaska notes ... meeting conflict ended 16:53
maxamillion jlaska: ok, let me know because if not then I should be able to get a formal review in this evening (*should*) 16:53
jlaska maxamillion: that's much appreciated, I'll let you know 16:53
maxamillion jlaska: no problem, sounds good 16:53
kparal ok, seems like we go to open discussion 16:53
kparal #topic Open discussion 16:54
kparal anyone have a topic he/she wants to discuss? 16:54
kparal ok, thank you everyone, see you on next meeting 16:56
kparal it seems I didn't even made such a mess as a chairman as I supposed :) 16:56
kparal #endmeeting 16:56

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