QA/Meetings/20100621

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Contents

Attendees

People present (lines said):

  1. jlaska (103)
  2. kparal (56)
  3. adamw (38)
  4. jskladan (17)
  5. Viking-Ice (8)
  6. robatino (6)
  7. zodbot (4)
  8. mmcgrath (2)
  9. dafrito (1)

Regrets:

Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  1. jlaska to check-in with lmacken on the status of https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424
  2. adamw to forward wwoods a good explanation of the nss-softokn problem scenario to ensure autoqa catches it in future
  3. jlaska to propose a clean-up of the Critical Path Packages wiki to be a suitable home for critpath information

F14 QA Recommendations

Owner - User:Jlaska
Summary
Jlaska organized Fedora_13_QA_Retrospective feedback into a list of QA recommendations for Fedora 14.
Next steps...
  1. All - Please review recommendations
  2. jlaska - will file a fedora-qa TRAC ticket for each recommendation. If you would like to work on a specific task, please also file a ticket.

Proventester Update

Owner - User:Maxamillion, User:Adamwill
Summary
Adam Miller announced that the proventesters wiki page (QA/JoinProvenTesters) is no longer a draft.
There are several TRAC requests to join the proventesters group.
User:Adamwill drafted proventester instructions and sent to the list for review.
Next steps

Systemd approved for Fedora 14

Owner - User:Johannbg
Summary
Viking-ice noted that Features/systemd was approved by FESCO and wanted to propose several QA ideas.
Next steps...

AutoQA

Validating Initscript Tests

Owner - User:Jskladan
Summary
Josef asked for help in validating a new round of SysVinitscript AutoQA tests. See announcement and instructions and blog. Progress continues, and more help is needed to close out this task.
Next steps...
Continue to support volunteers

AutoQA Prioritization Update

Owner - User:kparal
Summary
The immediate goal is to automate the QA:Package_Update_Acceptance_Test_Plan. The team met and discussed task priorities and agreed on the following prioritization
Next steps...
  • INPROGRESS - jlaska working with infrastructure on several tasks
    1. infrastructure ticket#2221 - route http://autoqa.fedoraproject.org -> qa01
    2. infrastructure ticket#2230 - create mysql database for autotest on db1
    3. infrastructure ticket#2242 = Limit access to test systems qa01.c.fp.org through qa06.c.fp.org
  • INPROGRESS - jlaska - set up another private virtual autotest-server
  • jlaska - find a machine where resultdb may run (it can be VM, publicly accessible preferred)
  • kparal - implement *quick* virtualization support -- autoqa ticket#181
  • jskladan, wwoods - bodhi hook needs to be tested -- autoqa ticket#87
  • jskladan, kparal, wwoods - continue implementing and testing resultdb -- autoqa ticket#145

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

TCs/RCs archive

Owner - robatino
Summary
Andre asked about archiving old Release Candidate and Test Compose ISOs.
Next steps...
  1. ACTION: robatino to ask infrastructure team to archive previous RCs/TCs (kparal, 15:57:23)

test case: ABI - stability check

Owner - jlaska
Summary
ABI stability test proposed on planet.fedoraproject by Remi Collet (see http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/06/20/ABI-:-stability-check)
No active milestone for improving the rpm* tests, but this felt like a good test idea to capture for future improvement.
Next steps ...
  1. ACTION: jlaska to create a ticket about possible enhancement/new test case for ABI stability check (kparal, 16:02:09)

Upcoming QA events

  • 2010-07-08 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
  • 2010-07-15 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
  • 2010-07-22 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
  • 2010-07-23 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #1
  • 2010-07-30 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #2

Action items

  1. wwoods to evaluate nss-softokn dependency problem for proper 'depcheck' coverage
  2. jlaska to cleanup (or remove) the Critical Path Packages#Background section so that it provides _some_ value
  3. Viking-Ice will start 'how to debug systemd problems' guide and send to list for review
  4. jlaska to review F14 test day wiki content
  5. robatino to ask infrastructure team to archive previous RCs/TCs
  6. jlaska to create a ticket about possible enhancement/new test case for ABI stability check

IRC Transcript

jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 14:59
zodbot Meeting started Mon Jun 21 14:59:57 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:59
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:59
jlaska #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00
jlaska #topic Gathering critical mass 15:00
* jskladan steps out of the shadows 15:00
jlaska Hi folks, we'll get started shortly 15:00
jlaska jskladan: you lurker! :) 15:00
adamw morning 15:01
* jlaska notes, I believe we are without wwoods today ... I gather he is on a train heading south right now 15:01
jlaska adamw: howdy 15:01
adamw i would like to propose a new QA group motto 15:01
adamw from dedoimedo's F13 review - http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/fedora-13.html 15:01
jlaska adamw: let's hear it! 15:01
adamw "Testing Fedora is like stuffing a badger down your trousers; you don't really know when it's going to bite." 15:02
* kparal here 15:02
jlaska haha :)) 15:02
jlaska kparal: hi there 15:02
jlaska #idea New QA motto - "Testing Fedora is like stuffing a badger down your trousers; you don't really know when it's going to bite." 15:02
kparal should it be tested in practice first? 15:02
* Viking-Ice joins in by shooting the bloody badger.. 15:03
jlaska Viking-Ice: welcome 15:03
jlaska alright, I think we have enough to get started 15:03
jlaska Unfortunately, today is my double booked meeting day ... I've asked kparal to take over when I need to step out 15:04
jlaska so everyone be nice to kparal! :) 15:04
jlaska #chair kparal 15:04
zodbot Current chairs: jlaska kparal 15:04
jlaska #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:04
jlaska #info jlaska to check-in with lmacken on the status of https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/ticket/424 15:04
* adamw throws rotten fruit at kparal 15:05
jlaska I don't have any updates on this ticket, I wager others in rel-eng or infrastructure might know more 15:05
* kparal dodges 15:05
* jlaska pictures Kamil dodging the flying tomato ala 'the matrix' 15:05
jlaska I'll try find luke and see if there are any updates 15:06
jlaska anyone else have news on this front? 15:06
jlaska alright, next up ... 15:06
jlaska #info adamw to forward wwoods a good explanation of the nss-softokn problem scenario to ensure autoqa catches it in future 15:06
jlaska Adam knocked this off the list iirc 15:07
adamw yup, sent to autoqa-devel 15:07
jlaska #link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000703.html 15:07
jlaska adamw: awesome thanks, hopefully that is something 'depcheck' has covered. 15:07
kparal I haven't really understood whether the test for catching these issues would be hard or easy to code 15:07
jlaska wwoods isn't here, but I can add a discussion topic to review your nss scenario 15:08
kparal well, if it should be covered by depcheck we can wait a week for wwoods 15:08
jlaska #action wwoods to evaluate nss-softokn dependency problem for proper 'depcheck' coverage 15:09
kparal I had the impression a new test case would be needed 15:09
adamw i suspect it's something that probably isn't covered yet 15:09
jlaska kparal: maybe, if you have any ideas feel free to drop them in response to adam's note 15:09
adamw since the key issue is you need to look at whether packages will be pushed to certain repos, as well as the packages themselves 15:10
* jlaska hasn't yet fully absorbed the failure ... so I'm glad you have! :) 15:10
kparal well I haven't, I have just a faint idea, that's why I asked :) 15:10
jlaska okay, so we've got this as something to check-in on next week ... hopefully we know more then 15:10
jlaska Next up ... 15:11
jlaska #info jlaska to propose a clean-up of the Critical Path Packages wiki to be a suitable home for critpath information 15:11
jlaska kparal and adamw, you guys noted that the current Critical Path Packages wiki page didn't have the information you wanted (or needed to link to) 15:11
kparal that page received some heavy editing in the meantime 15:11
jlaska yeah, I tried to fill the gaps, and then got a lot of help from alaxlan and dafrito 15:12
jlaska #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Critical_Path_Packages 15:12
jlaska I also filed rel-eng TRAC ticket to see if we can get a more consistent URL for the latest critpath.txt file (see http://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/3802) 15:12
jlaska that would help not having to guess where the current critpath list is 15:12
kparal yea, that would be great, stable URL 15:13
jlaska anyhow, this page came up during the FESCO meeting last week, so I suspect others are paying attention and will be helping improve the content 15:13
adamw the 'background' section seems spectacularly useless (it's not practical information, just a nugget of historical interest). other than that, looks great 15:13
* kparal thinks he created a ticket for in some time ago at our trac 15:13
jlaska kparal: ooh, sorry, pass me the ticket and I'll connect the dots 15:13
jlaska adamw: what kind of info would you expect to see there? 15:13
* kparal looking 15:14
adamw well, there's two ways to look at it 15:14
* jlaska goes to listen mode 15:14
adamw if we can't think of anything useful to put there, why have the section at all? 15:14
kparal jlaska: here's the ticket I filed https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/60 15:14
jlaska kparal: thx 15:15
adamw but if you want an idea of something possibly useful to go there: an explanation of why the critpath proposal came about - what problems is it trying to solve? 15:15
kparal I agree with adamw 15:15
jlaska adamw: okay, thanks ... I'll revisit 15:16
jlaska #action jlaska to cleanup (or remove) the Critical Path Packages#Background section so that it provides _some_ value 15:16
jlaska thanks gents 15:16
jlaska okay ... agenda time ... 15:16
jlaska #topic F14 QA Recommendations 15:16
jlaska nothing tremendously new here ... other than to say ... 15:17
jlaska #info Jlaska organized Fedora_13_QA_Retrospective feedback into a list of QA recommendations for Fedora 14. 15:17
jlaska I've not yet heard any alarming feedback around "good lord no!" 15:17
jlaska my next step is to start filing fedora-qa tickets for the main tasks 15:18
jlaska some of the things on the list are tasks folks are always actively working 15:18
jlaska so I may assign some of those tickets to you 15:18
jlaska don't panic" 15:18
jlaska s/^/"/ 15:18
jlaska Ideally, we can start picking off tickets from the open fedora-qa F14 ticket queue 15:19
jlaska and if folks are looking for ways to get involved, hopefully that queue provides a list of ideas 15:19
jlaska Please feel free to shout if you have any concerns/ideas/complaints 15:19
* kparal haven't had time to study it yet, but will provide feedback soon 15:20
jlaska kparal: thx 15:20
jlaska I'm still grappling with how to see this through, but I think I'd like a page that lists all the improvements, provides tickets to follow-up and provide improved measurement of improvements etc... 15:21
jlaska I'd like to have better visibility into the cool things (and the sometimes painful tasks) we all do to prepare for a great release 15:22
jlaska I think this will help, but as always, ideas/suggestions welcome 15:22
jlaska okay, next up 15:22
jlaska #topic Proventester Update 15:22
jlaska I think maxamillion has a conflict with this time slot :( 15:23
jlaska adamw: are you able to give an update? 15:23
adamw whoops, sorry, multitasking 15:23
adamw sure, partially 15:23
adamw on our side, we're now just working on the instructions for proven testers, which we've been thrashing out on the list. with big thanks to Aaron Faanes for his great revisions. I need to make a few suggested changes to his last draft and then we 15:24
adamw we'll probably be close to done 15:24
adamw the other Thing That Needs To Happen is simply for the actual update gating system to be switched on; there's not a lot of point in having a proventesters policy and team if updates aren't actually considering proventester input 15:25
adamw i believe jlaska was liasing with releng about that 15:25
jlaska adamw: you bet, I've got that on my radar to follow-up with lmacken on 15:26
jlaska adamw: I'll let you know what comes out of that 15:26
* jlaska <hearts> Aaron Faanes wiki contributions :) 15:27
jlaska adamw: cool, thanks for the update 15:27
dafrito jlaska: I'd be willing to work on editing the Critical Path Packages#Background article with you, if you want. I'll probably end up touching it anyway while I work with adamw on proventesters 15:29
jlaska ah dafrito == Aaron ... welcome 15:29
adamw yay dafrito 15:29
jlaska dafrito: many thanks for the critical path wiki changes! 15:29
jlaska okay, next topic was proposed by Viking-Ice 15:30
jlaska #topic Systemd QA preparation 15:30
jlaska #info Viking-ice noted that Features/systemd was approved by FESCO and wanted to propose several QA ideas. 15:30
jlaska this was discussed briefly on IRC by Viking-Ice and adamw ... I'm not sure if what is needed to follow-up with 15:31
Viking-Ice yea basically we need to start testing this as early as possible 15:31
jlaska one take-away for me is to start up the wiki details of F14 test days 15:31
jlaska Viking-Ice: would another debugging guide, much like you did for dracut, be helpful here? 15:32
adamw i've mailed lennart to ask if he'd be interested in having a systemd test day 15:32
adamw ooh, debugging guide sounds like a good idea. 15:32
jlaska #info adamw reached out to lennart for interest on a F14 test day 15:32
Viking-Ice jlaska: yup I see if I cant throw together systemd wikipage with debug guide 15:32
* kparal is enthusiastic about systemd 15:32
jlaska Viking-Ice: cool, I'd love to help, but I admit I know nothing about it. I'll be glad to assist with some wiki-foo if needed 15:33
Viking-Ice atleast someone needs to read over the page due to my exceptional good english hehe 15:34
adamw i like the idea, i hope the implementation process isn't too full of pain. =) 15:34
Viking-Ice selinux fucked as is 15:34
jlaska Viking-Ice: sure, do you want to send it to test@ whenever you have something you feedback on? 15:34
adamw Viking-Ice: sure, if you follow the usual process (post first version / draft of page to the list for comments) i'll be happy to proof it 15:34
Viking-Ice yup I'll send something to the list as soon as I have something 15:34
jlaska thanks! 15:35
adamw cool 15:35
Viking-Ice we need to make a decision when to switch to systemd by default 15:35
adamw Viking-Ice: that's more of an engineering decision than a qa one 15:35
jlaska #action Viking-Ice will start 'how to debug systemd problems' guide and send to list for review 15:35
Viking-Ice we need to check all run level cli foo service commands etc.. 15:36
jlaska #action jlaska to review F14 test day wiki content 15:36
adamw i'm trying to think whether there's any obvious bear traps we should watch out for in relation to systemd 15:37
adamw the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are related to That Other Repo, so i'll look at that in my personal time... 15:38
jlaska we have pre-branch test runs of F14 content in the schedule, we could use those images for discovery of pain points etc... 15:38
adamw yeah, we'll probably just run into them as they crop up. i'm just trying to think of things that may be big problems we don't quite catch with our planned testing. 15:38
* jlaska hands baton to kparal 15:38
* jlaska goes into lurk mode 15:39
kparal alright, systemd finished? 15:39
kparal #topic AutoQA updates (initscripts, prioritization status) 15:40
jskladan OK, that one's on me :) 15:40
kparal jskladan go! 15:40
jskladan so, not much happened during the last week, but we have some news :) 15:41
jskladan initscripts - scott fergusson finished mysql review and he boldly goes to do some more already 15:41
adamw yay 15:42
jlaska go Scott go 15:42
jskladan and i'm currently 'mentoring' two more guys, who'd like to contribute, but seem kind of helpless at the moment 15:42
jskladan so i wrote a huuuge email explaining the lines on the 'todo list' 15:42
jskladan jlaska: you should have been cc'd 15:42
jskladan so i'll probably put it on the wiki 15:43
jskladan ad AutoQA - jlaska is the man of the week 15:43
jskladan he worked hard on gaining some machines 15:43
jskladan https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000687.html 15:43
jskladan so it seems that we'll have testing instances in no time :) 15:44
* jskladan likes :) 15:44
* jlaska notes, mmcgrath and smooge get the honors for this 15:44
jlaska I'm just the messenger (don't shoot me) 15:44
jskladan and also started with the new bodhi hook testing https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-June/000688.html 15:44
adamw six servers? surely you don't need all of those, send one to me ;) 15:45
mmcgrath jlaska: just so I'm aware, you're no longer blocking on us for anything except qa2 right? 15:45
jlaska adamw: hah, gladly! 15:45
jlaska mmcgrath: I have 2 outstanding items I spoke to smooge about. 1) Creating a db1 mysql db, and 2) updating ACL's so that qa0[1-6].c.fp.org are only accessible from bastion (or from autoqa01.phx) 15:46
jlaska mmcgrath: I need to get a ticket in for #2 15:46
kparal #info jskladan wrote an explanation how to contribute with initscripts, will put it on the wiki 15:46
mmcgrath <nod> we'll probably just have you do iptables. It'd work and is easy to make alterations to when the time comes. 15:47
kparal #info jlaska gathered huge number of machines available for autoqa testing 15:47
jskladan and I also approached Ray Chen, who wrote quite a blog about fedora qa tools <http://blog.chinaunix.net/u2/68938/showart.php?id=2250919> and gess what - he is thrilled to join us :) he has a great insight on virtualization, so i'll write down some status report on the virtualization milestone, put it on wiki and will get the guy in the loop :) (and we could have the 'full' virt support in no time :)) 15:47
jlaska #info Infrastructure team comes to QA's rescue -- thanks mmcgrath and smooge! 15:48
kparal #info jskladan recruited another volunteer to help up with virtualization, Ray Chen 15:48
kparal great jskladan 15:49
jskladan which is just about it on AutoQA, i guess... I'm currently working on some frontends and stuff (stay tuned :) ) 15:49
jskladan so once the machines are up'n'running we'll have some fireworks :) 15:49
kparal alright, thanks for the update 15:50
kparal I had some vacation but aside from it I was working on forcing some tests to be executed inside virtual machines instead of on bare metal machines 15:50
kparal it looks good, I will have more updates next time 15:50
kparal that covers AutoQA then 15:51
kparal #topic Open discussion <your topic here> 15:51
kparal unleash your ideas now... 15:52
robatino i was wondering about archiving all the TCs/RCs 15:52
jlaska #info Interesting test idea for anyone interested -- http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/06/20/ABI-:-stability-check 15:52
kparal #topic TCs/RCs archive 15:52
kparal robatino: that should be discussed with infrastructure guys I guess 15:53
kparal maybe the storage space would be problem 15:53
robatino delta compression such as disos could be used for the install images (except for netinst) 15:53
robatino if they are available quickly that would also take care of http://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/3575 15:54
kparal what would be the benefit of such archival? 15:54
kparal s/archival/archiving 15:54
adamw well, we obviously had a case this week where we'd like to see how the previous builds behaved 15:54
robatino bugs such as https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=597283 that only affect a few people and can't get caught during testing 15:54
kparal oh that's true 15:54
adamw the mysterious x86-64 dvd boot fail on gigabyte motherboards issue 15:54
kparal ok, do you think we should file a ticket at infrastructure team? 15:55
kparal to hear their opinion 15:55
kparal if there is enough storage space it would be beneficial to have it available at least until a new Fedora is released 15:56
adamw sure 15:56
kparal who's the voluteer for writing that ticket? robatino? :) 15:56
kparal *volunteer 15:57
robatino yes, i could do that 15:57
kparal #action robatino to ask infrastructure team to archive previous RCs/TCs 15:57
kparal ok, please provide url then 15:57
robatino will do 15:57
kparal #topic test case: ABI - stability check 15:58
kparal so, we have some idea from jlaska 15:58
kparal #info http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/06/20/ABI-:-stability-check 15:58
kparal #link http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/06/20/ABI-:-stability-check 15:58
kparal jlaska: do you have some time to provide more details on that? 15:59
jlaska kparal: I'll see what i can dig up. At first glance, it seemed like a good idea for consideration into the future rpmguard/rpmlint redesigned framework 15:59
jlaska again ... very far off there 15:59
jlaska s/there/here/ 15:59
adamw so afaict it's a tool for checking whether the ABI has changed between two upstream releases 15:59
jlaska right on 15:59
adamw to be used if we don't trust upstream's process for identifying / notifying of ABI change? 16:00
adamw because usually, y'know, we get that info from upstream 16:00
adamw or to be used if we (QA) don't trust the packagers? =) 16:00
kparal ok, sounds good. so we should create a ticket at autoqa trac for it? 16:00
kparal to be implemented as a test case when time permits 16:01
jlaska I can toss this into a ticket, I don't think this applies to any active milestones ... but seemed like a good idea 16:01
kparal or maybe an enhancement for our rpm* tools 16:01
kparal yes, it is 16:01
kparal #action jlaska to create a ticket about possible enhancement/new test case for ABI stability check 16:02
jlaska definitely, under the framework ideas you and skvidal discussed ... hand wave ... fast fwd to when we have time to complete that ... this seems like a good candidate test 16:02
kparal ok, thanks! 16:02
kparal #topic Open discussion <your topic here> 16:02
kparal more ideas! 16:02
* adamw has nuthun' 16:04
kparal ok, let's close it, thanks everyone for attending 16:04
kparal #endmeeting 16:04

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