QA/Meetings/20100927

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Contents

Attendees

People present (lines said):

  1. jlaska (90)
  2. adamw (53)
  3. wwoods (44)
  4. j_dulaney (25)
  5. kparal (11)
  6. hicham (11)
  7. saccia (9)
  8. fenris02 (8)
  9. zodbot (4)
  10. Cookiekiller (4)
  11. Southern_Gentlem (3)
  12. mcloaked (2)
  13. exw (1)
  14. tk009 (1)
  15. rbergeron (1)
  16. Viking-Ice (1)

Unable to attend:

  1. Rhe
  2. Newgle1
  3. jskladan
  4. mkrizek

Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

F14 Beta Testing, and beyond

Owner - AdamW, hurry
Summary
Beta-RC3 declared GOLD (see announcement
Beta test summary sent by hurry (see announcement)
Next steps...
Identify and document CommonBugs? issues (see process)

F14 Test Days

Sep 23 - Virtualization

Owner - jforbes
Summary
Test day completed (see wiki)
Next steps...
Submit test day recap

Sep 28-30 - Graphics test week

Owner - adamwill
Summary
Tuesday, Sep 28 - Nouveau
Wednesday, Sep 29 - Radeon
Thursday, Sep 30 - Intel
Next steps...

Oct 07 - Open slot

Owner - nobody
Summary
No planned test day
Next steps...
 ?

AutoQA update

Owner - User:wwoods
Summary
jskladan updated Writing_AutoQA_Tests with new more updated content
kparal + wwoods reviewed and merged multihook and upgradepath patches
lmacken noted that updated bodhi with 'pending' tag support should be available later today
kparal presented AutoQA at FUDCon (see QA:Presentations)
autoqa-0.4.2-1 released
wwoods reviewed and updated Updates_Lessons#2010-05-27_-_nss-softokn_update_problems based on findings of how the nss-softokn issue was missed
Next steps...
wwoods will also add an rpm test transaction to depcheck to catch file conflicts
jskladan and wwoods investigating mash integration

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

F14 QA Retrospective

Please start recording good, bad and ugly at Fedora_14_QA_Retrospective.

Upcoming QA events

Action items

IRC Transcript

jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 15:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Sep 27 15:00:47 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
jlaska #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00
* fenris02 waves 15:00
jlaska #topic Gathering critical mass 15:01
jlaska adamw: fenris02: welcome 15:01
* kparal jumps 15:01
saccia I've got my haiku ready :-) 15:01
* j_dulaney is finally back online 15:01
jlaska saccia: good! 15:01
jlaska j_dulaney: welcome back :) 15:02
jlaska kparal: greetings 15:02
jlaska will get started in another minute 15:02
* wwoods here 15:03
jlaska wwoods: hey hey! 15:04
jlaska kparal: we're without jskladan and mkrizek today, right? 15:04
jlaska #chair kparal adamw 15:04
zodbot Current chairs: adamw jlaska kparal 15:04
kparal jlaska: that's right 15:04
* tk009 thinks jlaska is a bit to chipper for a monday. 15:04
j_dulaney I appologize for not making any meetings or doing any work in the last while 15:04
jlaska tk009: :) 15:05
jlaska kparal: adamw: I may need help from one of you to carry the meeting forward after the 30min mark 15:05
jlaska #topic Previous Meeting follow-up 15:05
jlaska This was easy ... 15:05
jlaska #info [All] - please help test the beta 15:05
jlaska and I just spoke with All, and [s]he said the work was completed! 15:05
adamw go all! 15:06
j_dulaney LOL 15:06
jlaska seriously though, I'm still impressed at the test turn-out we had for F-14-Beta-RCX ... that really helped provide adamw data for the go/no-go meeting 15:06
jlaska nice work gang 15:06
wwoods All.ison 15:06
jlaska good segway ... 15:07
jlaska #topic F14 Beta Testing, and beyond 15:07
jlaska So quick recap ... 15:07
* Viking-Ice comes sailing inn.. 15:07
jlaska #info F-14-Beta-RC3 declared GOLD - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2010-September/000137.html 15:07
jlaska Hi Viking-Ice, you can park that boat anywhere you like 15:07
jlaska Hurry also sent a test summary of both installation and desktop to test-announce 15:08
jlaska #info F-14-Beta test summary available - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2010-September/000139.html 15:08
jlaska The only outstanding items on the QA plate that I'm aware of for F-14-Beta are CommonBugs? 15:08
jlaska adamw and I typically knock these out today 15:08
jlaska (mostly adamw to be honest) :) 15:08
mcloaked Presume install from USB needs testing. I'll try do that. 15:08
adamw mcloaked: how do you mean? 15:08
jlaska mcloaked: that's one of the bugs on the CommonBugs? list that I need to get a bit more understanding on 15:09
jlaska mcloaked: I assume you're talking about bug#627789 ? 15:09
jlaska only 7 CommonBugs? requests, and I suspect a few may be old ... so not too bad 15:10
jlaska #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=dorem&remaction=run&namedcmd=CommonBugs%3F&sharer_id=141215 15:10
mcloaked Ok I presume reports were for putting ISO on usbkey and doing hd install from that? 15:10
adamw jlaska: there's probably some that should be on there that aren't 15:10
adamw jlaska: in particular we should check the -accepted and F14blocker lists 15:11
jlaska mcloaked: yeah, there's still some mystery (at least for me) precisely how some are preparing that setup for install 15:11
adamw and see if any of those need to be commonbugsed 15:11
jlaska adamw: I'm going to ask for help from Hurry for documenting some of the installer issues 15:11
adamw jlaska: as i mentioned on email, we should really get with anaconda team, get the definitive word on how one should do that, and write up a test for it 15:11
Southern_Gentlem jlaska, try livecd-iso-to-disk and unetbootin 15:11
jlaska adamw: agreed ... I've added it to the retrospective, and Hurry has started that process in a ticket 15:12
adamw Southern_Gentlem: we've already got tests for livecd-iso-to-disk, and unetbootin certainly isn't a supported Fedora install mechanism. 15:12
hicham i think this is a blocker : https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=626108 15:12
adamw jlaska: awesome 15:12
Southern_Gentlem adamw, in past releases unetbootin was mentioned 15:12
adamw Southern_Gentlem: er, that is, we don't have formal test cases, but we have test *results* for beta 15:12
j_dulaney hicham: I would agree 15:13
jlaska hicham: if you feel a bug is a blocker for the release, you are welcome to propose it by adding blocks:F14Blocker and listing the release criteria you feel is impacted 15:13
jlaska Note, from here out, we will be referencing the *Final* release criteria - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_Final_Release_Criteria 15:13
adamw hicham: that's not a blocker under our current criteria, nautilus functionality isn't considered until final 15:13
hicham jlaska: ok, I am adding as a blocker for final release 15:13
adamw hicham: for final i would agree 15:13
jlaska hicham: thanks 15:14
jlaska okay ... anything else for F-14-Beta and beyond 15:14
jlaska 20 seconds .. and moving on 15:14
Southern_Gentlem ship and lets bang on it 15:14
jlaska Southern_Gentlem: your wish is my command! :) 15:14
Cookiekiller jlaska, is there a known bug about setting the hostname? 15:14
fenris02 once we have the 'beta' label, many more testers will appear 15:15
jlaska Cookiekiller: I'm not aware of any general problems about setting the hostname 15:15
jlaska #topic F14 Test Days 15:15
Cookiekiller 2 times it must be set by me after I installed it 15:15
Cookiekiller Using f14 beta rc3 15:15
jlaska This is an ongoing topic where I review recent and upcoming test days 15:15
jlaska Cookiekiller: let's make a note and save your topic for open-discussion or further detail on #fedora-qa 15:16
jlaska Cookiekiller: so we don't keep people in meetings longer than needed :) 15:16
* adamw hits pantscon 2 in a hurry 15:16
Cookiekiller  :) so go on 15:16
adamw knew there was something i was supposed to do this weekend... 15:16
jlaska adamw: you've got some time 15:16
jlaska so reviewing last weeks event ... 15:16
jlaska #info Sep 23 - Virtualization - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2010-09-23_Virtualization 15:17
jlaska we had a light turn-out for the event, from what I could tell 15:17
jlaska which is unfortunate, as there was a *lot* of testing outlined on the wiki pages 15:17
jlaska if you weren't able to join, but still intend to test, it's not too late 15:17
jlaska I'll need to catch up with jforbes for a recap of the event 15:17
* j_dulaney doesn't have the hardware 15:18
jlaska i.e. what he felt was good/bad/ugly etc... 15:18
jlaska next up ... 15:18
adamw it seems like a lot of people still prefer vmware / vbox over the fedora stack for various reasons 15:18
adamw that might be a part of it 15:18
jlaska possibly, not sure 15:18
wwoods mostly a branding/usability problem at this point 15:18
jlaska definitely a messaging component 15:19
j_dulaney wwoods: agreed 15:19
wwoods I don't think people realize we ship a completely free, completely open source, super-fast virtual machine with Fedora 15:19
jlaska I often wonder if we spread too thin with the amount of testing scoped for a single day 15:19
adamw well, there was a thread recently where we asked why people preferred vmware and there were quite a few reasonable replies 15:19
adamw so it's not just messaging 15:19
hicham wwoods: provided they have Intel VT 15:19
adamw er, preferred vbox* 15:19
adamw hicham: doesn't have to be intel. 15:20
fenris02 adamw, esx is what many co's use 15:20
adamw all vaguely recent amd chips support it too. 15:20
j_dulaney wwoods: when I had access to the hardware for virtualization, I found VMWare's UI to be good 15:20
hicham adamw: or AMD with appropriate extensions 15:20
jlaska I've been amazed at how rapidly the virt-manager UI has improved over recent releases 15:20
hicham my hardware doesn't support it 15:20
hicham i am forced to use VB 15:21
jlaska okay ... so hit your blogs or the list with your thoughts as to how we can make this better in the future 15:21
j_dulaney Buy me new hardware/ 15:21
fenris02 jlaska, it is missing a few things yet. for instance, set the uuid. or attach an ide-cdrom with scsi disks. or boot bsd. 15:21
jlaska hah, get in line :) 15:21
j_dulaney  ? not / ^ 15:21
wwoods yeah I guess if you don't have VT bits that's an OK reason? But libvirt still runs fine on those systems. just not real fast. 15:21
wwoods bsd? I can't even pretend to care 15:21
adamw wwoods: s/not real fast/teeth-grindingly slow/ 15:21
wwoods anyway 15:21
exw wwoods: slow on my two non vt test machines 15:22
jlaska #info Sep 28-30 - Graphics test week 15:22
fenris02 wwoods, understand. just saying why folks use vmware instead. 15:22
wwoods tangent! let us move on! 15:22
jlaska switching to this weeks topic ... 15:22
jlaska wwoods: right on 15:22
wwoods oh yes, the ever-popular Graphics Test Week 15:22
jlaska adam will be delighting us with a revisit of the ever popular graphics test week! 15:22
jlaska boo-yay 15:22
hicham Graphics as of Artwork, or Graphics drivers ? 15:23
adamw aaand he totally forgot to announce it so far 15:23
jlaska drivers 15:23
jlaska adamw: the wiki page(s) look good, do you need any help finishing the event prep? 15:23
hicham oh, still investigating a nasty lockup in here 15:23
* j_dulaney hates nouveau 15:24
hicham it is caused by the move to r300g 15:24
adamw no, prep is done ages ago 15:24
jlaska adamw: I was thinking more about live images, blogs, test-announce etc.. 15:24
* j_dulaney will try to test the graphics, anyway 15:24
adamw oh. yeah, if anyone wants to blog it'd be great. 15:25
adamw i'm not aware of any need for live images yet, but i'd better check with the devs. 15:25
adamw i'll handle test-announce. 15:25
jlaska okay, thanks 15:25
jlaska #help Please help spread awareness of Fedora graphics test week to a blog/list near you 15:25
jlaska #info Oct 07 - Open slot 15:26
* j_dulaney will spread word locally 15:26
jlaska Note, we have no test day scheduled for next week. 15:26
jlaska However, I just saw a request from dramsey for an event focused on testing Fedora in dual-boot scenarios 15:26
jlaska I've reached out to dlehman for his thoughts on the effectiveness of such an event ... so we'll go from there 15:26
jlaska Alright ... that's it for test days 15:27
jlaska please tune your sets to autoqa for the next topic ... 15:27
jlaska #topic AutoQA Package Update Acceptance 15:27
jlaska wwoods: kparal: you're our resident autoqa experts, guide us through this wilderness 15:27
jlaska (points for excessive use of #info, #idea and #help :) ) 15:27
kparal let's give mic to the guru :) 15:28
wwoods ha. okay! 15:28
wwoods so, still concentrating mostly on the depcheck test. 15:28
wwoods people have noticed bodhi messing with the dist-fXX-updates{-testing}-pending tags 15:28
wwoods (which lmacken added so we can do proper depchecking - hooray) 15:29
jlaska saweeet! 15:29
wwoods last week (based on some code from jskladan) I added mash support to depcheck 15:29
jlaska #info bodhi now supports using dist-fXX-updates{-testing}-pending tags to assist with autoqa workflow 15:29
wwoods (mash is, basically, the magic thingy that puts the i686 packages into the x86_64 repo) 15:29
j_dulaney Coolness 15:30
wwoods this is important since some "repos are broken!" conditions are caused by bad multilib handling 15:30
wwoods so we need this so depcheck can simulate the exact set of packages that would get pushed to users 15:30
hicham what about evolution-data-server which led to broken updates for the second time in less than two months ? 15:31
wwoods anyway - it's in there now, and I wrote some unittests, and we proved that depcheck can *notice* (but not *prevent*) things like the nss-softokn problem we keep seeing 15:31
adamw hicham: please don't distract the discussion 15:31
wwoods hicham: that's not a multilib problem, but yes, depcheck catches that 15:31
wwoods it was designed with that problem in mind, and we have unittests that model it 15:31
hicham adamw: sorry, i thought i was on topic 15:32
wwoods anyway - us autoqa hackers had a little conference on Friday to work out the final pieces of the puzzle 15:32
wwoods we decided to move the file conflicts check into a separate test 15:32
jlaska adamw: kparal: can you keep #topic flowing, I need to step away for a conflict 15:33
adamw sure 15:33
wwoods and recognized that properly enforcing the Package Update Acceptance Test Plan will require running multiple tests and reporting a single pass/fail status - which will require some engineering work 15:33
wwoods so it'll be a little while longer until we actually have bodhi *enforcing* the autoqa requirements 15:33
wwoods but we should have depcheck running and reporting results - purely informative - Very Soon 15:34
fenris02 where will it report? 15:34
wwoods fenris02: same places all the tests report right now - the autoqa-results list, and directly to the package maintainer if they opt in 15:34
wwoods (by email) 15:34
* fenris02 nods 15:34
wwoods we have code to make them report to the ResultsDB, and we're working on a nice web frontend (or two) for ResultsDB 15:35
wwoods so that's another place tests can/will report 15:35
* j_dulaney could start working on the ResultsDB frontend, if needed 15:35
wwoods and in the future that reporting will probably happen over an AMQP messagebus within the Fedora infrastructure 15:36
wwoods which is basically a big magical pony that we've all wanted for a while 15:36
* jlaska looks for ascii art pony 15:36
wwoods j_dulaney: that'd be awesome - you should a) look into TurboGears stuff and b) talk to jskladan 15:36
j_dulaney wwoods: roger 15:36
wwoods or! actually - something we haven't talked a lot about 15:37
wwoods writing up use cases and doing design mockups 15:37
wwoods (and possibly getting the design team involved) 15:37
wwoods would be super-helpful - we're QA guys and engineers. web design is not exactly my specialty 15:38
* j_dulaney has some slight experience, but the UI is not his strong point 15:38
j_dulaney The fiddly-bits underneath the UI is where I'm good 15:38
wwoods sure, but it's still helpful to just discuss/document the ways people would want to use a big database of test results 15:38
j_dulaney Indeed 15:39
wwoods think about what views would be useful as a packager, or tester 15:39
jlaska if you're looking for inspiration, I think kparal or jskladan posted some mock-ups to autoqa-devel@l.fh.org a while back 15:39
j_dulaney Righteo, I'll get in touch with Devel, some packagers, and on test-list 15:39
wwoods jlaska: really? nice, I should look that up 15:39
wwoods definitely think now is a good time to do some further brainstorming and get design involved with some further mockups 15:40
wwoods anyway, that covers the current state and near future (I think) 15:40
wwoods kparal: anything else we should mention? 15:40
* kparal thinking 15:41
kparal you covered all I think 15:41
kparal we had some discussion about whitelisting rpmlint output 15:41
kparal which is quite an important for many pkg maintainers 15:42
kparal anyone can join that discussion on autoqa-devel 15:42
adamw heh 15:42
kparal adamw: actually atodorov started the thread before fudcon I think :) 15:43
adamw  :P 15:43
adamw ok, so thanks autoqa gang! 15:43
adamw #topic open discussion 15:43
adamw anyone have anything to bring up that hasn't been discussed so far? 15:43
jlaska just a quick pointer, I finally completed wiki cleanup for the F-14 QA retrospective page 15:44
jlaska #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_QA_Retrospective 15:44
jlaska I'll send a reminder to the list, but contributions encouraged and welcome 15:44
j_dulaney Just throwing out: The OS class at CCC did not make, not enough people signed up 15:44
kparal pity 15:45
saccia haiku? I'm still learning what I can contribute with some QA tasks... but I can bring a mean haiku 15:45
saccia Fedora 14 / Beta is for Carotene / Let's Push for Final! 15:45
j_dulaney Noice 15:46
wwoods saccia: TOP MARKS 15:46
* adamw isn't quite sure where the carotene comes from 15:46
wwoods adamw: "beta-Carotene", natch 15:46
saccia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotene 15:46
saccia there is also a carotene.... besides beta-carotene 15:46
fenris02 wwoods, hah 15:46
adamw oooh. 15:47
* saccia bows 15:47
adamw thank you saccia 15:48
adamw i realize it's a hard act to follow, but anything else? :) 15:48
saccia lol 15:48
adamw jlaska reminds me i have something :P 15:49
adamw #topic open discussion - nice-to-have proposal 15:49
adamw just wanted to point up the nice-to-have bug proposal i sent to the list for discussion, feedback would be appreciated 15:49
j_dulaney Working video drivers for my old-blanc hardware 15:49
kparal adamw: you mean test-list, right? 15:49
j_dulaney blank^ 15:49
adamw http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-September/094067.html 15:49
adamw yes 15:50
adamw j_dulaney: i didn't mean that way. :P 15:50
j_dulaney I know 15:51
adamw so, yeah, please read and post feedback, thanks! 15:51
* jlaska plans to re-read again after having a weekend to digest 15:51
saccia so we'll have a beta-gold spin tomorrow? 15:51
adamw we already have one 15:51
saccia oh wow... missed it.... gonna go download now 15:52
j_dulaney Indeed 15:52
adamw ok, so sounds like we covered everything 15:53
adamw closing meeting in 5... 15:53
adamw 4... 15:53
adamw 3... 15:53
adamw 2... 15:53
* rbergeron considers adding that haiku to the beta announcement :) 15:53
adamw 1... 15:53
adamw thanks, everyone! 15:53
adamw #endmeeting 15:54

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