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< QA‎ | Meetings


  • adamw (135)
  • tflink (87)
  • Viking-Ice (21)
  • kparal (20)
  • maxamillion (10)
  • jreznik_n9 (6)
  • Martix (6)
  • zodbot (6)
  • satellit_e (3)
  • robatino (2)
  • pschindl (2)
  • mkrizek (1)
  • Cerlyn_ (1)


  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 18 Beta review / Final planning
  • Test case / criteria revision
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • tflink to continue to evaluate fedup status and propose significant bugs for blocker status - this was done, fedup has rough edges but is basically working
    • Docs team was taking care of fedup documentation, tflink was to make sure something would be in place for Beta

Fedora 18 Beta review / Final planning

  • Common bugs needed updating as always
  • tflink was worried about state of fedup, adamw said he would try to keep an eye on forums
  • Agreed to go ahead and start holding Final blocker review meetings immediately
  • Final TC1 was scheduled for 2012-12-11 at the time
  • Agreed to build smoketest images regularly until TC1 point

Test case / criteria revision

  • Some discussion about fedup requirements for final release
    • Agreed tentatively that GUI and progress monitoring must be done for fedup for final
  • Agreed to make jskladan check the final criteria / test cases for revision candidates

Open floor

  • tflink proposed signing smoketest images, after discussion, general agreement that it was not worth the effort
  • Some confusion over the exact proposed final mechanism for fedup image generation and provision etc
  • Another idea from tflink: use zsync for smoketest images to reduce bandwidth load - some technical discussion, not at a point worth making decisions about

Action items

  • tflink to ensure some kind of upgrade documentation is ready for beta availability tomorrow
  • tflink to brief #fedora ops and fedora-user-list regulars on fedup
  • adamw to co-ordinate with anaconda team on TC1 date planning
  • jskladan to review final criteria and test cases for obvious revision candidates
  • viking-ice or tflink to try and get a fedup design document out of wwoods


adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 16:01
zodbot Meeting started Mon Nov 26 16:01:56 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at 16:01
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:01
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 16:01
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 16:01
adamw #topic roll call 16:02
* kparal is here 16:02
* tflink is here 16:02
* Cerlyn_ is here 16:02
* maxamillion is here 16:02
* adamw is barely here 16:02
* satellit_e listening 16:02
tflink adamw: that's what coffee's for :) 16:02
adamw mmm, glorious coffee. 16:02
* mkrizek is here 16:03
* jreznik_n9 is not available today... day off 16:03
maxamillion adamw: +1 16:03
adamw .fire jreznik 16:03
zodbot adamw fires jreznik 16:03
adamw #topic previous meeting follow-up 16:03
adamw alright, a nice batting practice fastball for tflink here... 16:04
tflink uh oh 16:04
adamw ...just as soon as i can get to the wiki. 16:04
adamw "tflink to continue to evaluate fedup status and propose significant bugs for blocker status" 16:05
tflink oh, yeah. that is done for the time being 16:05
tflink fedup still has some rough edges but in general, it seems to be working 16:05
adamw we've managed to keep the victims' families away from the press, so all is well 16:06
kparal will we have some upgrade documentation in time for Beta release? 16:06
tflink yeah, that's on my todo list for today 16:06
jreznik_n9 rough edges... 16:06
adamw #info "tflink to continue to evaluate fedup status and propose significant bugs for blocker status" - this was done, fedup has rough edges but is basically working 16:06
tflink either will, I or the docs team will get something done before beta is released tomorrow 16:06
jreznik_n9 we also need a todo list for final 16:07
tflink finishing the test plan and more test cases would be good, too 16:07
adamw kparal: i mailed docs list to ask them to look after it, jack reed said he will do it 16:07
jreznik_n9 to be on the same side of force 16:07
adamw "I will keep in touch with Will and tflink to ensure fedup is documented 16:07
adamw accurately." 16:07
* pschindl is late, but here 16:07
adamw not sure if he meant for beta, though 16:07
adamw #info docs team taking care of fedup documentation, but not sure if they'll be ready for beta 16:07
adamw #action tflink to ensure some kind of upgrade documentation is ready for beta availability tomorrow 16:08
adamw since we're already on it anyway... 16:08
tflink yeah, that was the impression I got too. not sure if the docs would be done for beta release 16:08
kparal in the CommonBugs page I referenced a few times 16:08
adamw #topic Fedora 18 Beta review / Final planning 16:08
adamw oh, you started on commonbugs? awesome, thanks 16:08
* tflink makes note to update that page 16:09
adamw #info commonbugs needs updating for various beta bugs, kparal already made a start 16:09
adamw for anyone else who wants to help out - the page is , see the comments for instructions and style guide, and compare to existing entries 16:10
jreznik_n9 especially nfs thing has to be mentioned 16:10
* jreznik_n9 could go through the page tmrw in the morning for final review, touches 16:11
adamw please, everyone who has something to contribute, do :) 16:11
adamw and make sure any significant bugs are tagged with the CommonBugs keyword 16:11
adamw anything else anyone is worried about for beta? 16:12
tflink I'm a little worried about fedup for beta but a lot of that is due to the change from preupgrade/DVD 16:14
tflink I think there are going to be a lot of questions 16:14
adamw i think that was pretty inevitable 16:14
adamw i'll try and stay on top of the forums, any help welcome 16:14
adamw the other thing we could do is make sure the folks from #anaconda and user-list are briefed 16:14
adamw do you want to do that, once we have the docs in place, or should i? 16:15
tflink briefed? on where the docs are? 16:15
tflink I can do the coordination on fedup docs, though 16:15
tflink do/help with 16:15
adamw yeah, just let them know fedup is landing, here are the docs, you might want to try it out so you know what you're talking about to help people, here's who to ask if you get stuck 16:16
adamw that kinda thing 16:16
tflink ok, I think that finding a few #fedora regulars would be wise as well 16:18
adamw d'oh, that's what I meant, not #anaconda obviously :) 16:18
adamw #info tflink to brief #fedora ops and fedora-user-list regulars on fedup 16:18
adamw grr 16:18
adamw #undo 16:19
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0xa3f77d0> 16:19
adamw #action tflink to brief #fedora ops and fedora-user-list regulars on fedup 16:19
adamw ok, anything else on beta? 16:19
tflink other than bracing myself for final testing, nothing from me :) 16:19
maxamillion heh ... I apparently hit "pageup" and irssi scrolled up but then I didn't notice and was staring at an earlier part of the convo thinking to myself "this meeting seems slower than usual" .... /me facepalms (sorry for the offtopic, just had to share) 16:20
adamw that's the kind of top-quality staff we at rh insist on, folks 16:20
maxamillion >.> 16:20
maxamillion \o/ 16:20
adamw (says adamw from his dining table, in dressing gown, with cat at his side) 16:21
maxamillion adamw: I don't even have a good excuse 16:21
adamw ok, so for final planning 16:21
adamw since i know everyone loves them so much, i was thinking we could indulge ourselves and start blocker review this week 16:21
tflink yeah, I was thinking the same thing 16:21
adamw i mean i know it barely seems worth it with the tiny final blocker list - - but still... 16:22
adamw (dies) 16:22
tflink just to at least start getting through the huge list we have thus far 16:22
adamw so who's ready for some exciting blocker review on wednesday? 16:22
maxamillion o/ 16:22
tflink maxamillion: says a guy who doesn't regularly show up for the review meetings :-D 16:23
maxamillion tflink: I know :( ... I've been terrible at that this release 16:23
adamw i think he probably just facepalmed on the keyboard again. 16:23
tflink how do you facepalm on the keyboard? 16:24
maxamillion silly $dayjob keeps getting in the way 16:24
adamw tflink: it takes skills, to be sure. 16:24
adamw okay, the other thing we have is the Final TC date 16:24
adamw #info first Final blocker review meeting this Wednesday, 11-28 16:25
tflink do we still have test cases and/or criteria to revise for final? 16:25
adamw yes, i have a topic coming up for that next 16:25
tflink ok 16:25
adamw mumblegrumblepeoplewhodon'treadtheagendamumble 16:25
tflink agenda? 16:25
tflink  :-D 16:25
adamw =) 16:25
adamw so final tc1 is currently scheduled for 12-11, two weeks from now 16:26
Martix when final TC images starts releasing? 16:26
adamw with go/no-go on 01-01 16:26
adamw assuming jreznik's space is correct, anyhow 16:26
Martix adamw: ok 16:26
tflink new years day? whose bright idea was that? 16:26
adamw fesco? 16:26
adamw blame fesco! 16:26
tflink sounds like a plan to me 16:26
Martix lol 16:27
Martix 01-01? certainly No-Go 16:27
tflink I'd like to get testable images started as soon as we have another anaconda build 16:27
tflink whether that's in the format of smoke images or TCs 16:27
adamw so that'd give us three weeks for validation. we could move it up yet further just to make us all even more sick of validation. but it might be better, i guess, to look at that after we do one blocker review meeting at least, and co-ordinate with anaconda team, see what their plans are 16:27
Martix tflink: +1 16:27
adamw it might be a solid plan to have smokes all the way, tough 16:28
tflink on a side note, work is progressing somewhat on the image building project from GSoC 16:28
adamw #agreed we should build at least smoketest images throughout final phase, from now onwards 16:28
tflink I don't think it's going to be done before F18 is over with but I'm hoping to start using it for smoke images soon 16:28
adamw awesome! 16:28
adamw #info imagebuilder may be usable for Final smoketest images 16:29
tflink ideally, I'll be able to get something set up to watch for anaconda builds and trigger new smoke images but that's more than likely to be "crazy fantasy land" 16:29
adamw #action adamw to co-ordinate with anaconda team on TC1 date planning 16:29
adamw okay, anything else on 18 beta/final before we go on to test case / criteria stuff? 16:30
* Viking-Ice scrolls up 16:31
* adamw gives viking-ice a minute 16:32
Viking-Ice let's carry on 16:33
adamw okey dokey, yell if you think of anything 16:34
adamw #topic Test case / criteria revision 16:34
adamw so i just put this in as a kind of catch-all topic 16:34
adamw i know I still suck and haven't figured out the partitioning criteria, sorry. 16:34
tflink .fire adamw 16:35
zodbot adamw fires adamw 16:35
maxamillion awwww, sadface 16:35
tflink one question I have is whether we're going to block final if there's no fedup gui 16:35
adamw I'M FREE! 16:35
* adamw dances off into distance, clicking heels 16:35
tflink wait, that's how it works? 16:35
Viking-Ice tflink, I would say so yes 16:36
Viking-Ice no gui no release 16:36
adamw #info kparal and jskladan have been cleaning up several test cases for final 16:36
adamw i'm inclined to side with viking-ice on that one 16:36
adamw though not sure if we want to rope in fesco, or what wwoods' take is 16:36
Viking-Ice tflink, just feed wwoods more alcohol 16:36
tflink do we want to refine the upgrade criteria for upgrades so that there is less ambiguity when issues arise 16:36
Viking-Ice  ;) 16:36
tflink ie, fedup theme, visable progress during upgrade, hot-fixability post-release etc. 16:36
adamw tflink: i'm not so sure if i'd want to go that route as it's not like we'll be rewriting the gui at every release, but that's just mho 16:37
tflink er, s/visable progress/easily monitor-able progress/ 16:37
tflink I'm less worried about the gui than I am about plymouth integration and progress monitoring 16:37
adamw yeah, progress monitoring seems like a big thing to have too. 16:38
Viking-Ice progress monitoring is a must have 16:38
* tflink will propose as a final blocker 16:38
adamw let's make a wishlist 16:38
tflink wishlist or a musthave list? 16:38
adamw #agreed general consensus that we expect a) progress monitoring and b) GUI for fedup to be complete for final release 16:38
* adamw handwaves 16:38
Viking-Ice I dont think it has to show which package is being upgraded thou 16:39
adamw always leave room to back out later! 16:39
adamw no, just some sort of 'i'm alive, don't reboot me'. 16:39
Viking-Ice ack 16:39
adamw and vague 0-100 of some kind. 16:39
tflink Viking-Ice: that would be nice but I agree that it's probably not worth blocking for 16:39
adamw oop, sorry, i didn't propose, but sounds like it's okay. 16:39
tflink this might be better for open floor, but I've been wondering about signing more of the test images - smoke builds and fedup stuff 16:40
adamw let's make it open floor yeah 16:40
Viking-Ice tflink, honestly the whole anaconda showing which package is being installed never made sense to me 16:40
Viking-Ice if the install fails it fails regardless which package was being installed 16:40
adamw Viking-Ice: in Beta RC1 it doesn't, actually - at least on live 16:40
adamw it gives you a percentage 16:40
adamw which is neat. 16:41
adamw okay, back on criteria! 16:41
tflink eh, I like seeing which package is being installed - it's a quick indication if the process hangs but I guess it's personal preference 16:41
tflink either way, not worried about it :) 16:41
adamw does anyone want to take an action item to review the final criteria and test cases for particularly obvious revision candidates? 16:41
adamw or should i just assign it to jskladan in his absence? :) 16:42
tflink that'll teach him not to show up :-P 16:43
* kparal agrees 16:43
adamw eeeeexcellent 16:43
adamw #action jskladan to review final criteria and test cases for obvious revision candidates 16:43
adamw can you let him know, kparal? thanks 16:43
kparal adamw: sure 16:43
kparal pschindl: can you remind me that tomorrow? 16:44
kparal pschindl: don't forget to delegate this process further 16:44
tflink another action for josef? 16:45
adamw some chicken farmer in swaziland is going to wake up with a todo item for this tomorrow, isn't he 16:45
tflink #action jskladan to remind pschindl to remind kparal to let jskladan know that he got an action item 16:46
adamw i like it! 16:46
pschindl kparal: I will remind you ;-) 16:46
adamw rhl: lean, mean, efficiency machine 16:46
tflink the circle is now complete ... 16:46
adamw okay, that sounds good 16:47
adamw anything else before we go on to open floor? 16:47
Martix ack 16:47
adamw #topic open floor 16:48
satellit_e easy way to format USB with no swap and / partitions (non LVM) 16:48
adamw fire away with crazy ideas now! 16:48
tflink I've been wondering about signing more of the test images that we're using 16:49
adamw satellit: i saw that. to be honest it doesn't make any sense. it's as simple to make non-LVM partitions as any other kind. 16:49
adamw #topic open floor - image signing 16:49
tflink I'm just not sure it's worth the effort 16:49
adamw tflink: this comes under 'desirable but not critical' for me, especially if it'd make the process any heavier 16:49
satellit_e ok 16:49
adamw i really would hope that no-one is installing smoketest images and then actually *using* them for anything 16:49
tflink yeah, that's mostly why I'm wondering if it would be worth any effort 16:50
Viking-Ice agreed I think signing smokes is useless 16:50
Viking-Ice smokes are kinda use once discard 16:50
tflink fedup testing is more arguable, though 16:50
adamw so i'd say don't waste more than minimal time on it, and especially not worth it if it makes it more complex/time-consuming to build smokes 16:50
adamw we have a bug for fedup signing, right? 16:51
tflink yeah, that's as much a releng issue, though 16:51
tflink if we did do it, I'd wonder what key to use 16:51
tflink I can sign them myself but that doesn't seem quite right and there's no way I'm putting my gpg key on a regular infra machine 16:52
adamw another darn thing. 16:52
tflink I'll keep it in mind but I suspect that there are going to be higher priorities for final 16:52
adamw so when you say fedup signing, signing what exactly? there are various bits, right? are we talking the upgrade.img here? 16:53
tflink the upgrade.img, yeah 16:53
adamw ok 16:53
adamw well i guess the process i'd expect there is that it gets generated by releng and signed by releng, but i may be in cuckoo land 16:53
tflink I suppose that if we're not testing stuff only in git, it doesn't matter a whole lot, though 16:53
tflink I'm tempted to not do it unless there is enough complaining to justify the effort or we need to start testing some sort of verification 16:54
Viking-Ice do we have any page that outlines the upgrade.img and it's process? 16:55
tflink building or using? 16:55
tflink upgrade documentation is on my todo list for today, already have an action item or two 16:55
Viking-Ice both fedup progress in general how it (supposed to ) work etc 16:56
tflink I'm planning to update the testing page once I have some basic usage docs in place 16:56
adamw we already did some planning for documenting the user side of things 16:56
tflink that's what I've been trying to use to record progress, what to expect etc. 16:57
adamw that was before you came in 16:57
* tflink has another item for open floor once we're done with this 16:57
Viking-Ice we need documentation on the whole process not just the user side of things 16:57
tflink Viking-Ice: what do you mean "the whole process"? 16:58
tflink that's rather vague and I'm not 100% sure what exactly you're getting at 16:58
Viking-Ice how the upgrade process is supposed to work 16:58
Viking-Ice from a - z 16:58
tflink how is that different from user-facing docs? 16:58
Viking-Ice has to do with making criteria decision for the process 16:59
tflink I might just be slow this morning but I'm still not following you 17:00
adamw i think he means almost a design document 17:00
Viking-Ice until we have those docs we cant adjust any criteria surrounding it 17:00
adamw here's how the Final Finished Fedup Process is envisioned to work - no temporary locations, no UI hacks 17:00
adamw right? 17:00
Viking-Ice since no one in the QA community will have other then vague idea how it works 17:00
tflink I'm not against the idea but I'm not sure I'm really qualified to write stuff like that 17:01
tflink since I only have vague, seldom-mentioned-in-irc plans to go off of 17:01
adamw yeah it seems like it'd be best coming from wwoods 17:02
adamw i agree it seems like a good thing to have though 17:02
adamw do you want an action item to try and get one out of wwoods? 17:02
tflink I can ask him about it, sure 17:02
adamw i meant viking-ice, but either way 17:03
adamw Viking-Ice: do you want to take it? or give it to tflink? 17:03
adamw #action viking-ice or tflink to try and get a fedup design document out of wwoods 17:05
adamw alrighty 17:05
adamw #topic open floor 17:05
adamw anything else for open floor, anyone? 17:05
tflink yeah, zsync - 17:06
tflink if I figure out how to get that to work for the smoke images, would people use it? 17:06
tflink there is no fedora package for it due to bundled zlib 17:06
adamw is that like deltaiso? or what? 17:06
adamw i use deltaisos all the time 17:07
tflink a more generic form of deltaiso 17:07
tflink and probably a bit more efficient 17:07
kparal tflink: robatino uses that for all TC/RC images 17:07
tflink yeah, that's who I heard about it from 17:07
kparal tflink: 17:07
adamw well count me in favour of anything deltaiso-y 17:07
kparal zsync is still not acceptable in Fedora 17:08
kparal but there's a rsync update that unbundles zlib 17:08
tflink but the documentation isn't 100% clear and I wanted to get an idea of how much it would be used before putting time into it 17:08
kparal that's a step in the right direction 17:08
tflink I thought that didn't work with zsync 17:08
robatino basically rsync except putting the load on the client instead of the server 17:08
adamw #info tflink looking at zsync for smoketest images 17:08
tflink but I haven't checked the review bug for zsync in the last week, I could be mis-remembering 17:08
kparal tflink: basically first we need to push rsync update to Fedora that unbundles zlib, then we have to change zsync to unbundle it as well, and then we can accept zsync info Fedora 17:09
tflink ok, it sounds like I was thinking of a different patch 17:10
* kparal links 17:10
tflink either way, we could still put zsync packages w/ bundled zlib in a side repo for the short term 17:10
adamw ok, we've over an hour 17:10
kparal tflink: opensuse has them, their rpm works great 17:10
tflink kparal: do you have a link off hand? 17:11
adamw do we need the technical zsync discussion here, or can we wrap up? any other topics? 17:11
tflink nothing from me 17:11
kparal tflink: 17:11
tflink we can take the zsync details elsewhere, I was mostly wondering about interest 17:11
* kparal thinks zsync is great 17:12
adamw +1 17:12
kparal tflink: it doesn't work well for Live images, just netinst/DVD 17:12
adamw ok, setting fuse for Professor X minutes 17:12
tflink I wonder why that is 17:12
kparal tflink: you might also want to look at 17:12
robatino i thought it was interesting that ubuntu's live downloads work well with rsync/zsync 17:14
kparal it's 3 years old measurement, things might have changed 17:14
adamw alright! zsync discussion to -qa please 17:15
adamw thanks for coming folks 17:15
adamw #endmeeting 17:15

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