QA/Meetings/20130325

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Contents

Attendees

  • adamw (97)
  • j_dulaney (41)
  • Viking-Ice (22)
  • kparal (20)
  • halfline (17)
  • tflink (10)
  • jreznik (10)
  • zodbot (5)
  • rdieter (3)
  • spoore (1)
  • nirik (1)
  • brunowolff (1)
  • jskladan (1)
  • mkrizek (1)
  • pwhalen (1)
  • jwb (1)
  • pschindl (1)

Agenda

  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 19 Alpha status
  • Test Days
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • adamw to work with developers on getting F19 images to bootable state - this was done: TC1 is bootable
  • adamw to work out a fallback plan with desktop team if we cannot get working images by Wednesday - this was done: Test Day went ahead with F19 images

Fedora 19 Alpha status

  • Bug #923951 is a major development/testing roadblock
  • TC1 DVD install fails on dependency issues, so we need a TC2 soon without those
  • We need to ensure we do all the tests that don't require network install at least, on TC2

Test Days

  • 2013-03-21 GNOME Test Day went ahead with working F19-based images, attendance was better than 3.4 and 3.6 but still below where it could be: try to improve outside publicity for future events
  • kparal suggests that the scope of the GNOME Test Day has gotten wider than a single day can really cover and suggests splitting future events into multiple days
  • kparal and martix will look after System Certificates Test Day planning

Open floor

  • tflink still working on getting the blocker proposal webapp into production, it's on staging now but still a couple of bugs to fix

Action items

  • adamw to request a TC2 as soon as it's clear we can compose one without critical dep issues
  • kparal to talk to martix and ensure Test_Day:2013-03-28_System_Certificates will be in shape and ready to go ahead for Thursday, or delay the event

IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Mar 25 15:00:06 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00
adamw #topic roll call 15:00
* kparal wheeee 15:00
adamw morning folks, who's around? 15:00
* tflink is here 15:00
* mkrizek is here 15:00
* j_dulaney waves 15:00
* nirik is lurking around 15:01
* spoore is lurking 15:01
* pschindl is here 15:01
jwb i am present if needed. i hope to not be needed. 15:01
j_dulaney .moar "kernel bugs" jwb 15:01
zodbot here jwb, have some more kernel bugs 15:01
adamw thankw jwb 15:02
adamw i don't think we have any particular fires in the kernel right now? anyhow. 15:02
* jskladan lurks 15:02
* pwhalen also lurks 15:02
adamw #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:04
adamw alrightly 15:04
adamw "adamw to work with developers on getting F19 images to bootable state" - well...they boot! 15:04
adamw shipit 15:04
j_dulaney Heh 15:04
tflink wfm 15:04
adamw #info adamw to work with developers on getting F19 images to bootable state - this was done...TC1 boots, at least 15:07
adamw "adamw to work out a fallback plan with desktop team if we cannot get working images by Wednesday" - we got f19 images, in the end 15:07
adamw #info adamw to work out a fallback plan with desktop team if we cannot get working images by Wednesday - F19 images were used for the Test Day 15:07
adamw anything else from last week? 15:08
tflink blocker tracking app? that might be more open floor, though 15:09
adamw yeah 15:09
adamw so let's hit up the biggy 15:09
adamw #topic Fedora 19 Alpha status 15:09
j_dulaney live desktop works after dding to USB 15:10
* j_dulaney was able to get into gnome shell, fire up Firefox, hop online, etc 15:10
adamw yeah, me too. 15:10
j_dulaney Install failed, however 15:10
adamw works fine for me. 15:11
j_dulaney Of course, what I was trying to do is a Beta requirement, not Alpha 15:11
adamw so looking at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_19_Alpha_TC1_Install and http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/19/alpha/buglist , we obviously have various problems 15:11
adamw satellit seems to be hitting stuff i'm not seeing, but he didn't link his feedback to bugs... 15:11
* j_dulaney also seems to have hit something you didn't 15:11
adamw how did install fail for you? 15:13
j_dulaney Custom partitioning 15:13
adamw oh right. 15:14
j_dulaney When I clicked on the Custom Parition button, the dialog closed, but Anaconda would not allow me to continue from there 15:14
adamw tflink: did we want to do blocker review after the meeting btw? 15:14
j_dulaney But, that's a beta blocker 15:14
kparal adamw: I don't see it announced 15:15
tflink adamw: do you think we need it before wednesday since we're not in freeze yet? 15:16
* j_dulaney can see how it may be useful to knock out a few 15:17
adamw tflink: hm, good point 15:17
adamw okay, so we have various potential and actual blockers 15:17
adamw but the real big roadblock is https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=923951 , which is killing netinstall and bcl is pretty stuck on it 15:17
adamw #info https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=923951 is a major development/testing roadblock 15:19
* jreznik is late today, sorry, pto :) 15:19
j_dulaney BTW, not a show stopper, but the current F19 kernel is eating some major cycles and ram 15:19
j_dulaney 3/4 GB ram 15:19
kparal j_dulaney: it's a debug kernel 15:19
adamw so we might want to try and direct some high-level resources at that one; we also should make sure we test around it 15:19
adamw j_dulaney: it's a debug kernel. try 'slub_debug=-' parameter. 15:19
j_dulaney Roger 15:19
kparal adamw: what does it do? 15:19
* j_dulaney also noticed that f19 yum is not always showing progress 15:20
j_dulaney Especially on downloads 15:20
adamw kparal: breaks net install entirely 15:21
kparal adamw: no, I mean slub_debug=- 15:22
* kparal googles 15:22
adamw i haven't tried tc1 DVD install yet; can someone report if it's viable, or does it get eaten by dependency problems? 15:22
brunowolff Turns off slub debugging. 15:22
adamw kparal: oh, disables a specific subset of debugging options which appear to be responsible for most of the slowdown in debug kernels, for most people 15:22
j_dulaney adamw: It gets eaten alive 15:23
kparal sounds great, I'll add it to our wiki 15:23
adamw j_dulaney: ah. so, ideally we need to do a tc2 soon, with no dep problems if possible 15:23
j_dulaney Indeed 15:23
adamw #info TC1 DVD install fails on dependency issues, so we need a TC2 soon without those 15:23
adamw any other thoughts on f19/tc1? 15:25
j_dulaney Can tc2 be slightly less broken? 15:26
adamw anyone hitting any big issues that haven't been reported as bugs? if so report them! 15:26
adamw j_dulaney: well that would be nice, certainly...:) 15:26
adamw #action adamw to request a TC2 as soon as it's clear we can compose one without critical dep issues 15:29
adamw #info we need to ensure we do all the tests that don't require network install at least, on TC2 15:29
adamw this is the 'don't just give up when we hit a showstopper' thing - let's make sure we get through all the validation tests on the DVD / live images even when we know netinst is busted 15:30
adamw that way we don't get surprised by something else 15:30
tflink adamw: that would never happen (the getting surprised by something else part) :-D 15:30
adamw =) 15:30
adamw #topic Test Days 15:31
adamw doesn't look like martix is around 15:31
adamw brno guys? 15:31
kparal he's not 15:31
adamw ok 15:32
adamw I can say that we managed to get the GNOME Test Day to fire, and even had a decently-working live image, but attendance was thinner than i was expecting 15:32
adamw 18 people filing results, inc. a lot of RHers 15:32
adamw i think we didn't get enough outside publicity done 15:32
adamw also partly my fault for not getting the test images up fast enough 15:33
adamw #info GNOME 3.8 Test Day went ahead with working F19-based images, but attendance was thin: insufficient publicity? 15:33
* j_dulaney had school in the way 15:33
* j_dulaney had a recital that night 15:33
adamw j_dulaney: not blaming the attendees :) individuals can always be busy, but looked at overall, IIRC we had like 50+ at the last gnome/kde test days 15:34
kparal actually I think the scope was too large and it put some people off 15:34
* jreznik thinks it's a problem of a too early desktop TDs but I understand why Martix scheduled them so early (upstream releases) 15:34
kparal and of course, yes, it was too early - everything is too broken 15:34
adamw hm, no, i must be remembering an older one 15:35
adamw attendance was somewhat up on 3.6 and 3.4 in fact 15:35
adamw #undo 15:35
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2a4940d0> 15:35
adamw #info GNOME 3.8 Test Day went ahead with working F19-based images, attendance was better than 3.4 and 3.6 but still below where it could be: try to improve outside publicity for future events 15:35
adamw comparing https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2012-03-15_Gnome_Shell_and_Extensions and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2012-11-08_GNOME_3.6 15:35
kparal the first one was much more focused 15:36
adamw kparal: yeah, it has spread out a little 15:36
adamw partly just because G3 actually has applications now :) 15:36
adamw #info kparal suggests that the scope of the GNOME Test Day has gotten wider than a single day can really cover, suggests splitting future events into multiple days 15:37
* kparal nods 15:37
j_dulaney +1 15:37
adamw this week's test day is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-03-28_System_Certificates - shared system certificates 15:39
adamw the idea being we just have one database of trusted ssl/tls certs, not, like, 50. seems a good plan. 15:39
adamw the test day page still looks very template-y 15:39
adamw kparal: if I #action martix to talk to the organizers and make sure they're on track or delay the event, can you pass that on? 15:40
kparal adamw: I guess martix is one of the organizers, so you can #action me to talk to him 15:40
adamw sounds good 15:40
* Viking-Ice wonders if we just change the meeting time to 15:00 utc 15:41
adamw #action kparal to talk to martix and ensure https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-03-28_System_Certificates will be in shape and ready to go ahead for Thursday, or delay the event 15:41
adamw Viking-Ice: my head says 'hell, no' 15:41
adamw  :P 15:41
kparal Viking-Ice: two weeks ago 15:41
Viking-Ice ok 15:42
kparal as for upcoming test day, I already talked to alich and I'll try to create a livecd for them tomorrow 15:42
Viking-Ice well any *DE testing should not be done until after alpha 15:43
adamw Viking-Ice: the problem is that we're off-cycle with the DEs now 15:43
Viking-Ice which could explain bad attendance 15:43
adamw Viking-Ice: we had to schedule them both early or else they'd already have been released 15:43
Viking-Ice adamw, sorry not following how that has anything to do with us ( as in upstream relese cycle ) 15:44
jreznik Viking-Ice: I talked to Martix and he was forced by upstreams to schedule it in this way 15:44
Viking-Ice we dont have and should not tie our test days to their release schedule 15:44
jreznik Viking-Ice: there's bigger chance to get a feedback and fixes in upstream... 15:44
adamw Viking-Ice: it's harder to get stuff fixed after the upstream final release 15:45
jreznik but still I think it was too early and it hit as more than upstream final releases (as we still have time for dot ones) 15:45
Viking-Ice history has taught us never to schedule DE test until after alpha regardless of upstream schedule 15:45
adamw that's an assertion, not an argument. 15:45
Viking-Ice well it's a bigger problem if bugs that get filed during out development cycle wont get fixed because it does not fit upstream schedule 15:46
adamw that's not what we said, exactly. 15:46
Viking-Ice with regards to Gnome testing given recent thread they dont even bother with our bugs anyway 15:46
Viking-Ice ( unless they get filed upstream ) 15:47
jreznik so yep, for the next time I'd prefer no fix in upstreams (actually it was probably too late for GNOME too) and do the desktops tests with something more stable - as we want more users on TDs... for more advanced stuff, we can expect people will be able to workaround problems 15:47
jreznik but for both KDE and GNOME TD I heard a lot of complaints - I couldn't get it ready, so I gave it 15:47
jreznik Viking-Ice: well, this time I think they responded quite well in TD ("our" upstream devs) - so if they are changing theirs attitude - great 15:48
adamw desktop's team always been strongly involved with the test days. 15:48
adamw viking is referring to a thread on the desktop ML. 15:49
Viking-Ice yup which clearly shows their attitude against rh bz 15:49
kparal what's the thread name? 15:49
adamw buried ion https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2013-March/007895.html 15:49
kparal personally I'm not sure why even RH employees refuse to follow their packages in RHBZ 15:50
kparal but it's not the best approach 15:50
Viking-Ice well I think this is only limited to RH Gnome developers not outside that group 15:50
kparal yes, I'm referring to the GNOME TD 15:51
jreznik adamw: wow, that's a small logo... 15:51
adamw oh god 15:51
adamw MOVING ON 15:51
adamw  :P 15:51
Viking-Ice yeah not need to drag into this meeting how the Gnome devs are systematically killing the fedora brand 15:52
Viking-Ice so let's move on 15:52
* kparal moves on 15:52
j_dulaney Yeah, GDM sucks in that way 15:53
j_dulaney But 15:53
j_dulaney lightdm doesn't even show the logo, if I recall 15:53
adamw #topic Open floor 15:54
rdieter j_dulaney: yes it does 15:54
rdieter (or should, if not, it's a bug) 15:54
j_dulaney Hmm 15:54
adamw so what do we have besides toxic arguments? :) 15:54
Viking-Ice so is the new keyboard being displayed *always* in GDM considered a bug or a feature ? 15:54
* jreznik waits for lightdm default one for KDE and all that QML beaty :) 15:54
Viking-Ice lightdm that's canonical stuff right? 15:54
rdieter Viking-Ice: yeah 15:55
tflink still working to get the blocker bug tracker into production 15:55
tflink into staging now, not quite working but should get that figured out today hopefully 15:55
tflink there will be a sever name change at some point but hopefully, that change will be transparent to users 15:56
j_dulaney tflink: Is it publically facing? 15:56
adamw Viking-Ice: i'm guessing 'feature' - this is commonly used on MMOs as a security measure 15:56
j_dulaney tflink: As in, Linky? 15:56
tflink j_dulaney: the staging instance? yes 15:56
adamw Viking-Ice: the idea is that you can type your password partly using the keys and partly using the real keyboard 15:56
adamw in case someone's logging keypresses 15:57
adamw but imbw :) 15:57
tflink it isn't working ATM, though and I'd rather not have the extra hits until it's setup properly 15:57
j_dulaney Roger 15:57
j_dulaney BUT 15:57
adamw #info tflink still working on getting the blocker proposal webapp into production, it's on staging now but still a couple of bugs to fix 15:57
j_dulaney now would be the time to try to make it explode, rather than in the middle of the release cycle 15:58
* j_dulaney just had a mental image of Chuck Norris busting out of a RH datacenter 15:58
Viking-Ice adamw, really all it seems to do is ruin the user experience in GDM I personally thought it was table thingie 15:58
halfline no the keyboard isn't supposed to be there by default 15:59
adamw oh, so i guess i'm wrong :) 15:59
halfline just a bug in g-s-d 15:59
adamw halfline: feel free to use my explanation, though. CC license! 15:59
halfline fixed in 3.7.92 i think 15:59
Viking-Ice halfline, any reason the session chooser is there as opposed to somewhere in system settings ? 16:01
adamw because you...want to choose a session when you log in? 16:01
halfline an argument could be made for putting it in system settings 16:02
halfline we do for locale 16:02
* j_dulaney is glad it isn't 16:02
halfline not sure if it's a good idea or not 16:02
j_dulaney Sometimes, I break a DE, but don't want to fix it right away 16:02
Viking-Ice adamw, ? I would think they always would want users to use new gnome as first experience but have to manually configure it to the old mode ( which the natural place for that would be system settings ) 16:02
adamw Viking-Ice: oh, you mean specifically for classic mode? right. 16:03
* j_dulaney had gnome broken the entire time f18 was on his laptop 16:03
Viking-Ice adamw, yeah 16:03
adamw welp, anyway 16:03
halfline it sort of makes sense 16:03
j_dulaney s/laptop/x86 laptop 16:03
adamw do we have any other *QA-related topics*? :) 16:03
halfline i mean we used to have "fallback" mode in system settings 16:03
Viking-Ice it's my experience any drop down menu/options in gdm has just confused users 16:03
halfline also the session list is really ugly 16:04
adamw halfline: right, i know where viking is coming from now. 16:04
* j_dulaney doesn't mind ugly if it means easy to find 16:04
Viking-Ice everything is easy to find once you have explain users where to find them ;) 16:05
halfline i can see both sides of the argument 16:05
halfline probably worth talking to aday/mccann about 16:05
halfline could also integrate with the talked about "Reboot into Windows" thing or whatever 16:07
j_dulaney Ew 16:07
halfline that we're going to have to do for EFI systems 16:07
j_dulaney halfline: I hope that doesn't show up if you don't have Wincrap installed 16:08
halfline yea that would be a bug 16:08
halfline if it did 16:08
halfline of course the feature isn't implemented yet 16:08
adamw OK, GNOME design discussion to...wherever the appropriate channel for that is 16:09
j_dulaney Feature I'll never use 16:09
halfline another thing we should do is support login screen extensions, so people who want quick access to change their locale (or session if we end up moving that) can 16:09
adamw thanks for coming, everyone 16:09
adamw #endmeeting 16:09

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