QA/Meetings/20130722

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Contents

Attendees

  • adamw (85)
  • kparal (24)
  • Martix (17)
  • tflink (12)
  • brunowolff (6)
  • drago01_ (5)
  • nirik (4)
  • zodbot (3)
  • satellit_e (2)
  • jskladan1 (1)
  • robatino (1)
  • pschindl (1)

Agenda

  • Fedora 20 Change review
  • Open floor

Fedora 20 Change review

  • Changes/Bluez5 needs to be integrated smoothly with KDE 4.11 and GNOME 3.10 at least
  • GNOME 3.10 is ported to Bluez5 and won't work with Bluez4, but KDE's libbluedevil is not yet ported to Bluez5 and may not be for a month: we would like FESCo to take a hand in dealing with that issue
  • btrfs-by-default appears to be off the table again for F20
  • Changes/AppInstaller may result in us using two depsolvers in official packaging tools
  • Changes/VisibleCloud will likely require changes to criteria and extra validation testing
  • Changes/SSD_cache may result in anaconda changes and changes to configuration of deployed systems with SSDs
  • Changes/SDDMinsteadOfKDM replaces the login manager for KDE (one of the release-blocking desktops)
  • Changes/Plasma-nm is another KDE change; looks like there's quite a bit of KDE churn for F20, we should probably test it a bit harder than usual
  • Changes/InstallerLVMThinProvisioningSupport is a moderately significant change to partitioning in the installer
  • We can look into the question of which Changes we should try and 'validate' once FESCo finishes approving them

Open floor

  • Fedora 20 schedule, tape it to your fridge
  • First F20 blocker review meeting was scheduled for this Wednesday (07-24): may happen or not depending on how many blockers are proposed

Action items

N/A

IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:02
zodbot Meeting started Mon Jul 22 15:02:28 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:02
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 15:02
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:02
adamw #topic Roll call 15:02
adamw morning folks! 15:02
* jskladan1 lurks from his cellphone 15:02
kparal hi 15:02
adamw who's around for qa meeting fun? 15:02
* satellit_e listening 15:03
* pschindl is here 15:03
* Martix is here 15:03
* tflink is here 15:04
* brunowolff is here 15:04
adamw alrighty 15:05
adamw anyone not here clearly doesn't like fun 15:05
kparal boooo 15:06
adamw before we leap into fedora 20 feature review, did anyone think of any major topics I'd forgotten? 15:06
adamw okay then 15:06
adamw #topic Fedora 20 Change review 15:07
adamw so, there's a metric buttload of Changes so far proposed/accepted for F20, I put as many of them as I could find on the list at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20130722#Fedora_20_Change_review 15:07
adamw i've been following the devel@ discussions and I think a few of you have too 15:07
adamw but wanted to check if we have any other concerns that haven't been raised yet with any of them 15:08
kparal we probably should re-visit ARM, since it got half-accepted 15:08
adamw well that's what last week was for 15:08
adamw i wanted to avoid spending another hour in that bikeshed 15:08
adamw but did you have something important to bring up about it? 15:08
kparal somebody said he could send us some hw 15:09
kparal since it got half-accepted, it might be a good time to have the hw 15:09
tflink as a dev, the web assets feature concerns me a bit, but that has nothing to do with qa 15:09
adamw kparal: take any hardware you can get your claws on, sure :) 15:10
Martix adamw: I have some info about Bluez5 and it's integration with Gnome and KDE 15:10
kparal adamw: so, who was the generous guy? 15:10
adamw hmm? i thought you knew 15:10
kparal nope. but I can read the logs 15:11
adamw oh, you mean last week. sure 15:11
Martix kparal: handsome-something? 15:11
adamw that's j_dulaney 15:11
Martix pirate? 15:11
kparal I can ping John and ask about it 15:11
adamw Martix: bluez5 isn't even listed as a Change, is it? 15:11
adamw seems like maybe it ought to be 15:11
Martix kparal: it is, I don't know if it was accepted 15:12
Martix adamw: ^ 15:12
tflink would the kdump under secureboot affect anything other than kdump? 15:12
kparal it might not be a bad idea to send the ARM hardware to Beijing, so that the guys there enjoy some change 15:12
Martix adamw: not yet: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5 15:12
kparal apart from x86/64 testing 15:13
kparal but we can have it in Brno as well of course 15:13
adamw Martix: oh, i don't see it on devel@... 15:13
adamw tflink: I don't think so - that one's basically 'get something working that doesn't work now', aiui 15:13
kparal adamw: the other thing that jumps up on me is AppInstaller with hawkey instead of yum 15:14
Martix adamw: it was proposed, I saw it there 15:14
robatino i take it BTRFS by default is off the table this time? it used to be discussed for each release but haven't heard anything this time 15:14
adamw Martix: searching 'bluez' in devel archives just shows 'FYI: F20 Feature: Migrate to Bluez5', not an official thread from feature wrangler 15:14
kparal robatino: after so many corrupted filesystems I would be very surprised :) 15:14
adamw wonder if the wrangler's still working on it 15:14
adamw robatino: that's a good question actually 15:14
adamw always seems to be coming next release 15:15
brunowolff I noticed that RHEL 7 is supposed to be using XFS by default. 15:15
brunowolff It was in a roadmap presentation a month or so ago. 15:16
Martix adamw: I talked to both Gnome and KDE about bluez5 migration and KDE support doesn't exist yet, but they can have it in a month 15:16
drago01_ adamw: gnome3.10 might move to bluez5 15:16
drago01_ adamw: so it might get in that way fyi 15:16
drago01_ brunowolff: how is this relevant for fedora? 15:16
Martix drago01_: right, bluez is maintained by Gnome developer 15:16
adamw drago01: well, the point is that if it's going in it ought to be listed as a Change, since it needs co-ordination with other c onsumers 15:16
drago01_ adamw: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5 15:17
brunowolff It might indicate the amount of resources that Red Hat is willing to put into making BRTFS the default for Fedora. 15:17
brunowolff If Red hat isn't pushing for it, it is much less likely to happen. 15:18
drago01_ Josef left Red hat a while ago 15:19
adamw anyway, we're getting a bit distracted 15:19
adamw #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5 needs to be integrated smoothly with KDE 4.11 and GNOME 3.10 at least 15:20
adamw kparal: what was your concern about AppInstaller? 15:20
adamw #info btrfs-by-default appears to be off the table again for F20 15:21
kparal adamw: that we might end using two different dep solvers 15:21
kparal *end up 15:21
adamw I think fesco is considering that issue 15:21
kparal it would definitely complicate verification 15:21
adamw #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AppInstaller may result in us using two depsolvers in official packaging tools 15:22
adamw verification of what? 15:22
* nirik notes it will be in this week's fesco meeting. The current rule is only one. 15:22
kparal of package installers working properly. I don't know.. for example install with yum and remove with AppInstaller, what happens? 15:22
kparal I just wanted to note that there might be some issues lurking 15:23
kparal but the criteria are written OK I think 15:24
adamw oh, I see. the criteria focus mostly on installing *updates* 15:24
kparal alright 15:25
adamw i think what's complicating things at present is the unresolved conflict between gpk-update-application and offline updates, if this feature resolves that it might actually be a _win_ in validation terms 15:25
adamw but yeah, something to keep an eye on 15:25
adamw https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/VisibleCloud would have obvious deliverable and criteria consequences 15:25
kparal if they keep both AppInstaller and gpk-update, we will have 4 ways to install updates :) 15:25
* kparal wonders if we have people to verify those cloud criteria, if they get written 15:27
adamw is anyone super excited to do some cloud testing? :) 15:27
adamw yeah 15:27
adamw I know dgilmore keeps an eye on the cloud images 15:27
kparal but we don't have people for xen etc verification anyway, so nothing new here 15:27
adamw but we'd really want a couple of other people to help with testing if they're going official 15:27
tflink I think it's important, but not sure I want to commit to anything 15:27
adamw it doesn't require much in the way of special resources, though, i don't think 15:28
tflink it might be worth noting that mattdm is having an intern work on automated cloud tests, or at least he was last time I spoke with him about it 15:28
adamw #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/VisibleCloud will likely require changes to criteria and extra validation testing 15:29
adamw I'm planning to file tickets for that stuff if the feature gets accepted, for the record 15:30
adamw https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SSD_cache looks pretty vague but could be significant if accepted, I guess 15:31
adamw I think people on devel@ were confused about the scope of it 15:31
* satellit_e afk 15:31
adamw anyone know anything about that one? 15:31
kparal not a clue 15:32
tflink me neither 15:32
adamw guess we have to keep an eye on it then 15:33
brunowolff It seems to need changes to ananconda. 15:33
adamw nirik: has there been any fesco discussion of it yet? 15:33
nirik don't think so. I think its this week? yeah, some anaconda changes, but not much else really. 15:34
adamw #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SSD_cache may result in anaconda changes and changes to configuration of deployed systems with SSDs 15:35
adamw https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SDDMinsteadOfKDM replaces the login manager for KDE (one of the release-blocking desktops) 15:36
adamw should be no problem as long as it lands early enough to shake any bugs out 15:36
Martix adamw: back, Gnome is ready for bluez5, KDE need port of libbluedevil, which will take a month...haddes (bnocera) will ask releng, if F20 can have both bluez4 and bluez5, but the problem is, it can't be installed side by side -> this could lead to broken deps when installing second desktop (Gnome and KDE) 15:36
adamw https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/InstallerLVMThinProvisioningSupport is a semi-large change to partitioning in the installer - yay 15:36
adamw Martix: that seems like a substantial issue 15:37
Martix best approach is to port libbluedevil 15:37
Martix adamw: anyway, I'm going to do Bluetooth test day when both desktops will be ready 15:39
adamw nirik: can you take notes on the bluez issues for fesco? and maybe try to bang some gnome/kde heads together when the change comes up for discussion? 15:39
adamw thanks for looking into it, martix 15:39
Martix no problem :-) 15:40
nirik sure, yeah, that seems non ideal 15:41
adamw #info GNOME 3.10 is ported to Bluez5 and won't work with Bluez4, but KDE's libbluedevil is not yet ported to Bluez5 and may not be for a month: we would like FESCo to take a hand in dealing with that issue 15:42
adamw https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Plasma-nm is another KDE change; looks like there's quite a bit of KDE churn for F20, we should probably test it a bit harder than usual 15:43
Martix adamw: I can take care of it 15:43
adamw thanks martix 15:43
Martix I was looking for new Plasma-NM 15:43
Martix *looking forward 15:44
adamw i guess it'd be good to know the timeframe on that change too 15:45
* adamw fires off an email 15:45
adamw okay...anything we missed? 15:46
adamw #info we can look into the question of which Changes we should try and 'validate' once FESCo finishes approving them 15:46
adamw okay, looks like that's it for Changes 15:48
adamw #topic open floor 15:48
adamw any other business, folks? 15:48
adamw note that the first release blocker meeting is scheduled for Wednesday 15:49
tflink say what? 15:49
adamw uh huh 15:49
adamw http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-20/f-20-quality-tasks.html , tape it to your fridge 15:49
adamw we can skip it if it's not worth doing 15:49
tflink so we're doing blocker review meetings before all the features have been reviewed? 15:49
* nirik files a blocker bug on needing an extra month of time 15:49
adamw tflink: i don't see that those two are particularly related 15:50
tflink it's a good thing we don't have any major features proposed for F20, otherwise I'd be worried 15:50
adamw we can review blockers so long as they've been proposed 15:50
tflink adamw: criticism of the continued pretending that we're actually going to branch as scheduled and be successful 15:50
tflink but then again, sarcasm doesn't work well over irc 15:51
adamw i'm still not sure what it is you're trying to communicate, but point is, the 'f20' (rawhide) tree exists and is testable and we have nightly lives and installer images and stuff and people are testing them and filing blocker bugs, so we can review the blocker bugs. seems straightforward 15:52
adamw the details of the development schedule seem not to be particularly significant to that process 15:52
* tflink is just frustrated, feel free to ignore him 15:52
adamw roger! 15:52
adamw i'd say schedule the meeting if it looks like anything would be achieved by reviewing the current proposed blockers, if not, don't. 15:53
adamw #info first F20 blocker review meeting is scheduled for this Wednesday (07-24): may happen or not depending on how many blockers are proposed 15:53
adamw anything else on anyone's radar? 15:54
adamw well then... 15:56
* adamw sets quantum fuse for as many minutes as it takes his cat to eat a moth 15:56
adamw thanks for coming, everyone! 16:00
adamw #endmeeting 16:00

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