QA/Meetings/20131216

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Contents

Attendees

  • adamw (155)
  • cmurf (55)
  • Viking-Ice (55)
  • handsome_pirate (30)
  • danofsatx (19)
  • sgallagh (16)
  • nirik (16)
  • roshi (15)
  • jreznik (9)
  • zodbot (7)
  • satellit (6)
  • tflink (5)
  • Martix (4)
  • robatino (3)
  • masta (1)
  • anhhct (1)
  • pwhalen (1)
  • satellit_e (1)

Agenda

  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 20 recap
  • Fedora 21 planning
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • adamw to draft a new test case and matrix row for validating cloud image checksums - that was done

Fedora 20 recap

  • Fedora 20 is signed off - thanks to all testers!
  • We dissected the then-known major bugs in the release
  • All major known bugs were documented at Common_F20_bugs

Fedora 21 planning

  • Project-wide, planning is blocking on Fedora.next until the WGs report to FESCo in January; this makes QA planning for Fedora 21 mostly impossible until then
  • FESCo has declared that Fedora 21 will not be released any earlier than late August 2014 (may be later)

Open floor

Action items

  • adamw to push the sanity check proposal out, group seems to approve
  • adamw to check F19 and F18 commonbugs for issues that should be copied to F20

IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 16:17
zodbot Meeting started Mon Dec 16 16:17:15 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:17
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:17
roshi lol 16:17
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 16:17
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 16:17
jreznik ooh! 16:17
roshi there's that 16:17
adamw #topic Roll call 16:17
adamw oh lookit that, it works 16:17
adamw it's the power of pure imagination! 16:17
* roshi is here 16:17
roshi it was afraid of being left out 16:17
adamw who's here for QA magic time, folks? 16:17
* tflink is here 16:17
* masta waves 16:17
adamw #chair roshi masta jreznik 16:17
zodbot Current chairs: adamw jreznik masta roshi 16:17
* Viking-Ice is here 16:17
roshi once the humans start having their own meetings.... 16:17
* danofsatx is present and mostly accounted for 16:17
* pwhalen is here 16:17
* nirik is here. 16:18
* jreznik is here 16:18
nirik ride the wave! 16:18
adamw phew, there go all the smelly people 16:18
* handsome_pirate waves 16:18
* cmurf is somewhere 16:18
adamw did we lose anyone? say something if we lost you 16:18
* sgallagh hangs about 16:18
nirik I'm lost. :) 16:18
Viking-Ice quickly assign tasks assign tasks!!! 16:18
* handsome_pirate hops down from the Crows Nest 16:19
adamw _ #action Viking-Ice do everything 16:19
adamw like that? 16:19
handsome_pirate +1 16:19
Viking-Ice adamw, I'm still here so no... 16:19
adamw OH HEY i didn't see you there 16:19
zodbot adamw fires cmurf_ 16:19
* Martix is here 16:19
cmurf oh finally 16:19
adamw haha, morning zodbot 16:19
adamw cmurf: yeah, there's THAT shoe 16:19
adamw #topic Previous meeting follow-up 16:20
adamw #info "adamw to draft a new test case and matrix row for validating cloud image checksums" - this was done, https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-December/119513.html 16:20
adamw yes, i'm so goddamn awesome that after three weeks i finally managed to write a lousy test case 16:20
zodbot adamw fires nirik 16:20
adamw one of these days i'll get around to adding satellit_'s sugar tests to the desktop validaiton page :/ 16:21
adamw did anyone have a minute to look at the draft yet? robatino, you're the sanity testing guy? 16:21
robatino looks okay to me 16:21
danofsatx I looked at it... 16:21
handsome_pirate adamw: It's been about two years since I've written a Fedora test case, I guess I'm due 16:21
robatino note that when i test lives, it actually includes both lives and spins 16:21
cmurf "cmurf left the chat room. (*.net *.split)" Ummm noo, i'm right here. 16:22
handsome_pirate lol @ topic change 16:22
adamw robatino: i basically split the 'targets' up more or less by directory, smooshing arches together 16:22
roshi looks good to me 16:22
* cmurf looked 16:22
adamw if a different separation makes sense, do suggest it 16:22
adamw also if i left out any deliverables 16:23
* handsome_pirate is satisfied 16:23
adamw i _really_ feel the lack of a single page that lists out everything we're supposed to ship as part of a release 16:23
nirik such a page is likely to change a lot for f21. ;) 16:23
cmurf we need a new topic, again 16:23
roshi yeah 16:23
adamw ha. don't even joke 16:23
nirik but we should definitely have one for then 16:23
adamw oh boy 16:24
adamw do i re-start meeting? who knows? 16:24
adamw #topic Testing 16:24
adamw oh hey, there we go. 16:24
adamw so, is it OK if I go ahead and push this change out now? seems like everyone's on board 16:25
adamw and if i don't push stuff through i tend to forget about it :) 16:25
cmurf apparently this is an automated monday morning lesson in patience 16:25
adamw #topic Previous meeting follow-up 16:25
cmurf yes 16:25
adamw #action adamw to push the sanity check proposal out, group seems to approve 16:26
adamw #topic Fedora 20 recap 16:26
adamw #info huge vote of thanks to everyone who helped with F20 validation, great job folks 16:27
Viking-Ice I have not had time to review that sanity proposal 16:27
adamw Viking-Ice: ah ok, i'll hold for now 16:27
adamw Viking-Ice: yell if you have feedback 16:27
adamw Viking-Ice: sorry, hard to keep track of who's responded and who hasn't with all the netsplitting :/ 16:27
danofsatx I looked at it, but don't feel I'm qualified yet to offer a vote. 16:28
danofsatx maybe for F21, I'll have more of a clue. 16:28
Viking-Ice we dont usualy vote on this stuff more like ack/nack gradually improve 16:28
Viking-Ice patch approach 16:29
danofsatx ok, let me rephrase.... s/a vote/any feedback 16:29
adamw danofsatx: roger, thanks 16:30
adamw so F20 is going out tomorrow 16:30
cmurf gottseidank 16:30
adamw i worked on the commonbugs page over the weekend, i think it's in fairly good shape: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F20_bugs 16:30
* jreznik is looking 16:31
adamw please, if anyone's aware of additional bugs that should be listed there, do add them, or mark the bug with the CommonBugs keyword 16:31
adamw (that will cause those of us who check and add issues to commonbugs every so often to see it) 16:31
jreznik adamw: for that unfortunate bug in dracut, docs guys are aware and removing it 16:31
adamw i've just been made aware of serious issues using F20 as a FreeIPA server, so i'll add a note for that soon 16:31
* satellit https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=888307  ? DVD as repo when inserted? 16:31
adamw satellit: i do wish we could get that fixed :/ it's probably not a bad thing to have on there indeed, can you throw CommonBugs keyword on it if it's not there already? 16:32
adamw which reminds me... 16:32
satellit k 16:32
Viking-Ice is that not something the freeipa guys should have been adding themselves or? 16:32
adamw #action adamw to check F19 and F18 commonbugs for issues that should be copied to F20 16:32
adamw Viking-Ice: eh, it's not a settled thing - commonbugs isn't really owned by anyone and doesn't have any real policies associated with it, near as i can tell, it's just something everyone hopes happens 16:33
adamw i tend to do a lot of the writing on it just because it's something i picked up doing, i don't mind adding new notes, it's always good to have people help though 16:33
satellit done 16:34
adamw satellit: thanks 16:34
Viking-Ice adamw, the time it takes me to explain to you is the same time I could have spend writing it myself ;) 16:34
Viking-Ice ( as opposed to have you do it for me ) 16:34
danofsatx there was a 3-digit bug that came up in KDE channel the other day. it's 15 years old and not fixed yet...should we do something about that one? 16:34
* danofsatx is still looking for the bug in question 16:34
adamw Viking-Ice: eh, if they knew what was going on, sure - it just came in through the RH mail chain, like "omg our feature is broken for f20! STOP THE RELEASE!" 16:34
robatino .bug 998 16:34
zodbot robatino: Bug 998 Network install/upgrade is unsafe, should check GPG signatures. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=998 16:34
adamw Viking-Ice: as opposed to, you know, testing it *before* we signed off on release :/ 16:34
Viking-Ice and you responded it's already out the door sucks to be you ;) 16:35
adamw yup 16:35
danofsatx yeah, that one ...thanks robatino 16:35
adamw danofsatx: that one is...a greatest hit 16:35
adamw danofsatx: you're not a true fedoran till you've had your first chat about #998 :P 16:35
danofsatx well, then, I guess I'm official now, huh?  ;) 16:36
* nirik doesn't think that merits a common bugs... I mean, what would you say... "Still can't solve insolvable problems" :) 16:36
adamw long story shorter, it's deceptively tricky to 'fix', at least if you take a sufficiently persnickety view of how it 'ought' to work. it's not really actually possible to 'fix' it without something like Secure Boot being enabled, according to some. 16:36
adamw #info if you have a bug that you think is sufficiently common/serious to merit a commonbugs note, do add it to the page yourself (following instructions in teh page source) or throw a CommonBugs keyword at it 16:37
cmurf wow a 15 year old bug 16:37
adamw so, we do have a few brown paper bag issues for release time, probably good if everyone knows about them 16:38
cmurf "Aliases:fidelitas-ex-nihilo, oldest-bug-evar" 16:38
adamw so if anyone asks you know what to tell 'em 16:38
adamw cmurf: i'm a fan of 'fidelitas ex nihilo', dunno which scholar came up with that 16:38
adamw most notably, any install done to LVM thinp with the release package set (so DVD, live) will fail to boot 16:38
adamw https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F20_bugs#lvm-thinp-fail for the instructions to avoid that 16:39
adamw lots of people are probably going to be reporting incorrect yum errors about groups not existing, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F20_bugs#yum-group-errors for that 16:39
adamw (but then they'll be reporting that for f19 too) 16:39
adamw and yeah, from my inbox this morning it sounds like running a FreeIPA server on F20 is a really bad idea at present 16:40
* satellit wish DVD could be used for livecd-tools remix repo and https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1043208 provide ksflaten .ks in spin-kickstarts 16:40
Martix adamw: I use LVM thinp and I have to use older ..-300.. kernel to successfully boot 16:41
satellit noted today the if install @sugar-desktop cannot find it when do yum update 16:41
adamw #info Fedora 20 brown paper bag bugs: LVM thinp crash #1040669, yum group errors #1043207 #1014202 #1043221 #1043231, FreeIPA server LDAP attributes missing https://fedorahosted.org/389/ticket/47631 16:41
adamw Martix: see the commonbugs note - update dracut and rebuild initramfs, should fix it 16:41
cmurf Martix: it's unlikely the kernel, but the initramfs for that older kernel that makes it work 16:41
cmurf i tested lvmthinp with -301 and it works if dracut builds a correct initramfs 16:42
adamw of course, if everyone can blog / tweet / G+ / insert-favoured-propaganda-tool-here about the release that'd be great 16:42
Martix I tried running dracut yesteday, is this in today's updates? 16:42
Viking-Ice is it the classic bug of anaconda not rebuilding initramfs after install? 16:42
cmurf Martix: no 16:42
cmurf Martix: you have to revert to an older dracut 16:42
adamw Martix: it was pushed stable late yesterday i think, been in updates-testing till then 16:42
adamw Viking-Ice: no 16:43
cmurf oops ok there we go 16:43
adamw Viking-Ice: it's the bug 'dracut team completely broke dracut in RC1' 16:43
Martix adamw: ok, thanks 16:43
adamw Viking-Ice: I wrote a mail to the list about it 16:43
danofsatx one of many..... 16:43
adamw Viking-Ice: anaconda does re-generate the initramfs after install, now; but that's no good if harald broke initramfs generation for thinp :( 16:43
Viking-Ice I need to expand my bug horizon to cover dracut as well 16:43
adamw danofsatx: heh 16:43
cmurf lvmthinp is that poor godforsaken ornery feature that just got beat up left and right the entire release 16:44
adamw hehe 16:44
Viking-Ice btrfs for the win! 16:44
adamw thinp inside btrfs! 16:44
adamw on raid! 16:44
adamw on stilts! on the high wire! 16:44
cmurf i can vouch for btrfs working on thinp virtual LVs 16:45
Viking-Ice why.... 16:45
cmurf of up to 32TB on a 100GB disk 16:45
danofsatx adamw: s/stilts/iscsi 16:45
cmurf how else are you going to make a 32TB btrfs volume without buying a lot of drives? 16:45
Viking-Ice danofsatx, nfsv4 16:45
Viking-Ice not iscsi 16:45
Viking-Ice  ;) 16:45
Viking-Ice on top of glusterfs 16:45
adamw and people thought my storage matrix was complete 16:46
adamw this is the kind of stuff you actually wind up _thinking_ about if you sit down and try and draw one... 16:46
danofsatx who said a crazy thing like that? 16:46
adamw someone on the mailing list 16:46
adamw or in my head. one of the two. i've been working hard lately. 16:46
handsome_pirate adamw: I like btrfs 16:47
cmurf yum cocktails, all weekend long 16:47
cmurf i saw them 16:47
danofsatx well, the only one that responded was cmurf.... 16:47
adamw so, aside from battening down the hatches for the yum bugs, anyone think of anything else we need to do to prep for release? 16:47
adamw any steps that aren't in an sop and that i've forgotten? 16:47
handsome_pirate adamw: I have btrfs on raid of scsi and san 16:47
adamw danofsatx: oh yeah, it was an off-topic subthread of the desktop package set rework mails 16:47
danofsatx k...I don't feel like re-reading them right now. ;) 16:48
cmurf "Re: Criterion revision proposal: KDE default applications" 16:48
cmurf that's the thread? 16:48
adamw danofsatx: i don't blame you 16:48
adamw cmurf: yeah, but it's split aacross three lists 16:48
adamw i didn't expect it to be _quite_ so controversial 16:48
cmurf oh piddle on the floor 16:48
adamw since the blocker rejection was voted through in like 15 seconds. but eh 16:48
cmurf what other two lists? 16:48
adamw desktop@ and kde@ 16:49
cmurf and it's most controversial on which list? 16:49
adamw i wouldn't worry about it, i obviously have more work to do on the more radical proposals 16:49
adamw all of them? :P 16:49
Viking-Ice the output from the WG lands on the WG 16:49
Viking-Ice period 16:49
adamw Viking-Ice: i wasn't even thinking about the WG stuff] 16:49
cmurf please tell me you didn't suggest Manual Partitioning just be turned off, because if that's controversial we're screwed 16:50
adamw cmurf: no, nothing like that 16:50
cmurf ok so there's maybe hope i filter through them later 16:50
Viking-Ice so DE ( anything ) is going out of our criteria into WG's own product critera 16:50
adamw Viking-Ice: everyone else seems to be cheerfully assuming all this fedora.next stuff is actually going to happen for f21, which in my opinion is batshit crazy, but never mind 16:50
Viking-Ice adamw, you know why that is right? 16:51
cmurf batshit is great fertilizeer 16:51
adamw Viking-Ice: i'm kind of working under the assumption it's all going to fall apart and/or be punted so we'll have a perfectly normal F21 release to worry about, but no-one else is on that page with me apparently. yet. 16:51
jreznik adamw: we will see in January... 16:51
jreznik but I'm with adamw... 16:51
tflink yeah, I figure there's not much to worry about yet 16:51
adamw tflink: well the thing that bugs me is that we can't do any planning, because it's all up in the air 16:51
tflink well, not much point in worrying too much until we have anything concrete to work with 16:51
adamw i can't get a proposal like this through because everyone's like 'OH BUT FEDORA NEXT!' 16:51
Viking-Ice adamw, they have this glorious fuckup of halting Fedora until it's ready. It takes time for the WG's to to climb the elephant and duck tape the wings on it 16:51
adamw sigh 16:51
cmurf duct tape 16:52
* satellit don't forget the feather 16:52
Viking-Ice the WG is an utter and total failure 16:52
cmurf pronounced like duck tape 16:52
danofsatx the brand name is Duck Tape. 16:52
cmurf if only we had duck tape, to prevent ducks from exploding or something 16:52
adamw the worst case scenario is fedora.next falls apart and fesco decides to go ahead and do a release four months later and we don't have time to go and fix these things properly so we get to go through f21 with the duct tape again 16:52
cmurf haha really, a brand of duct tape called Duck Tape, brilliant 16:52
Viking-Ice satellit I would not be surprised if that ends up being the output they just tar and feather it and throw it of a cliff 16:52
adamw arbitrary live image size targets and suboptimal package sets and all the other stuff we could be fixing now 16:52
Viking-Ice fly baby fly <sploink> 16:53
adamw cmurf: the question of whether it's called duct tape or duck tape is only marginally less controversial than that wikipedia page about wrestling :P 16:53
adamw Viking-Ice: haha, someone needs to gif that' 16:53
cmurf oh i'm not looking at that wikipedia page ever never 16:53
adamw so, ok 16:54
adamw now we got our bellyaching done 16:54
cmurf F21 is an unknown until January 16:54
cmurf right? 16:54
handsome_pirate adamw: phear 16:54
tflink cmurf: at a minimum, yeah 16:54
adamw #info please post any thoughts you have on lessons learned from F20 QA cycle to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_20_QA_Retrospective 16:54
adamw and quickly: 16:54
cmurf So either we get something coherent in January, or there will be a punt in January, right? 16:54
adamw #topic Fedora 21 planning 16:54
handsome_pirate adamw: I was under the impression from fesco that earlist f21 would land is September 16:55
adamw cmurf: and yes, that's correct 16:55
handsome_pirate Oh 16:55
handsome_pirate That was perfect timing 16:55
adamw handsome_pirate: that's assuming they make the decision in january... 16:55
* handsome_pirate dances 16:55
nirik punt to what? 16:55
sgallagh handsome_pirate: Yes, I was just digging up the FESCo ticket there. 16:55
jreznik cmurf: yes and it's not going to happen earlier than the and of august 16:55
cmurf F21 for horses vs F21 for unicorns 16:55
jreznik s/and/end 16:55
adamw #info Fedora 21 is up in the air on the basis of the fedora.next proposals until January 16:55
handsome_pirate adamw: Come January, I'm going to point out to FESCo that we (QA) was promised 3 months, no matter hwat 16:55
handsome_pirate s/hwat/what 16:56
adamw #info we cannot do significant F21 planning until we know what the FESCo plan for the fedora.next stuff is, which will happen then 16:56
nirik right. 16:56
sgallagh https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1178 16:56
adamw #info F21 GA cannot come earlier than late August 16:56
jreznik handsome_pirate: yep, that 3 months are in that outlined schedule 16:56
handsome_pirate So, even if fedora.next dies, *we still get our three months* 16:56
cmurf OK so whether F21 is standard magic or new magic, there's going to be a ~3 month retooling gap? 16:56
anhhct guys i wanna know the fedora 20 counter on the project homepage is set based on which timezone? thanks! 16:57
adamw so, yeah, i was hoping we'd be able to talk about various things we can do to try and plan a more organized workload for F21 cycle, but it's hard to cover a lot of that stuff when we don't know where fedora.next will go. 16:57
nirik anhhct: try asking in #fedora-websites 16:57
handsome_pirate anhhct: gmt, I believe 16:57
sgallagh adamw: The intent was for the time between F20 and F21 planning to be made available for QA and Rel-eng to play catch-up on their automation efforts 16:57
adamw sgallagh: yeah, I know 16:57
nirik sgallagh: and to ramp up/work on new needs. 16:57
sgallagh Yes 16:57
Viking-Ice there is more then just automation that needs to be worked on < sigh> 16:57
* handsome_pirate notes that if we don't get that time, he does have enough pikes for FESCo 16:58
sgallagh Viking-Ice: There's plenty that needs work. However automation is a big bang for the buck. It frees people up to work on those other things 16:58
adamw sgallagh: what worries me slightly is the prospect that we end up saying 'well, fedora.next isn't ready yet but it sure will be soon, let's wait for it!' then in *february or march* the call comes 'yeah...no fedora.next, let's just do a quick release of the old stuff in august, we don't need to change anything because it all worked so well last time, right?' 16:58
nirik handsome_pirate: it's already scheduled. Put yer pikes away. ;) 16:58
tflink handsome_pirate: that seems a bit ... excessive 16:58
Viking-Ice handsome_pirate, there is no use for us getting that time unless we can map out what to use it for 16:58
Viking-Ice we have to wait for the wg sheningan output until we know what to use that time for 16:59
handsome_pirate Viking-Ice: We have quite a bit of it mapped out already 16:59
nirik adamw: I would be very against that... as I think others would be too. 16:59
adamw well, that's good. i just like worst case scenarios. 16:59
sgallagh adamw: I'll state on the record right now: my vote will not to be fewer than six months to deliver a "traditional" F21 release, if we choose that route. 16:59
handsome_pirate adamw: That's why I have the pikes 16:59
cmurf yeah it's commit or die in January 16:59
nirik sgallagh: +1 16:59
cmurf that's far enough out as it is 16:59
sgallagh So if we decide in March that Fedora.next is F22, then the earliest you worry about is late 'September 17:00
Viking-Ice adamw, I would not be surprised if that worst case scenario of yours comes to pass 17:00
adamw so anyhoo, i doubt we have time to really discuss the big topic for this section either, i was thinking we could talk about what we can do with the criteria and validation tests to make things better for f21 17:00
adamw but we've had an hour and that's probably a half hour topic 17:00
adamw sgallagh: that'd be good. 17:00
sgallagh Viking-Ice: Two FESCo members just stated, in writing, that this is not what we will ask for. 17:01
adamw one thing we could knock off, though: does someone want to be the Test Day organizer for f21 cycle? i was thinking it'd be a good thing for roshi, but that's just an idea 17:02
cmurf so is the time frame for F21 the same regardless of whether it's Fedora.next or Fedora.current? 17:02
Viking-Ice sgallagh, I will believe it when I see it in actions things have been said and what has actually been done has contradict that 17:02
Viking-Ice in the past 17:02
Viking-Ice adamw, no organize tracker takes care of that 17:02
Viking-Ice want a test day file a ticket 17:02
adamw cmurf: the *minimum* frame is the same, anyway. presumably it's up to fesco to decide whether it thinks we should do 'fedora.next on fedora.old time', 'fedora.next but take longer for the initial release', or 'abort! abort! abort!' 17:02
Viking-Ice first come first serve 17:02
Viking-Ice roshi can just always take those tickets if he wants to ( or someone else ) 17:03
adamw Viking-Ice: someone has to read all the tickets, help people who need help to organize their event, reconcile dates, post the schedule, ensure the events actually run properly, post news about them... 17:03
adamw Viking-Ice: well they don't *have* to, but it works out well if someone does 17:03
sgallagh cmurf: We made a guarantee that nothing would come sooner than August, and based on the WG output might be granted additional time. 17:03
cmurf adamw: so there's maybe a 50/50 chance there will be one release of Fedora in 2014 17:03
Viking-Ice adamw, that someone can be anyone 17:03
Viking-Ice and should be 17:03
adamw cmurf: i am not, at this point, prepared to stick numbers on anything 17:03
cmurf actually, it sounds like 100% 17:03
roshi I like helping with the test days 17:04
cmurf there seems to be no way in that timing for there to be more than one 17:04
adamw Viking-Ice: sure, multiple people can always do it, just seems like from experience test days work best when someone steps up to make sure it always happens 17:04
nirik cmurf: right, one release next year. 17:04
roshi and I'm fine with just taking the tickets as Viking-Ice suggests 17:04
sgallagh cmurf: That depends in part on the WG output and what defines Fedora releases going forward. There's been some chatter about the Base having a more rapid cycle, but we need to see where that goes. 17:04
adamw Viking-Ice: but hey, your approach is the correct one in 'policy' terms i think, let's just say everyone please help out with test day stuff, and roshi will likely look to pick up a lot of them 17:04
Viking-Ice adamw, as I said roshi can then always beat people grabbing those tickets 17:04
roshi I don't think anyone needs to be beaten 17:05
roshi  :P 17:05
adamw yeah, there isn't usually a stampede to trac :P 17:05
Viking-Ice adamw, doing it this way leaves rooms for others to participate and learn in the process ( which you exclude if roshi or someone else own the process ) 17:05
adamw #info everyone please help out with test days as you can, roshi will look to make sure they aren't neglected 17:05
Viking-Ice plus you cant depend on RH employees anyway so... 17:05
roshi Viking-Ice: I don't want to own the process - or any process 17:06
cmurf oh dear 17:06
Viking-Ice roshi, nor should you 17:06
adamw okay then 17:06
roshi I jsut want to be able to help move things along, when and where they're needed :) 17:06
adamw any other topics for f21 planning we can cover in the, er, negative six minutes we have left? :) 17:06
adamw i guess we'll table the criteria/matrix stuff for next week 17:07
danofsatx are we having a meeting next week? 17:07
danofsatx it *is* two days before Christmas 17:07
roshi yeah, which is a great time to pontificate on what ifs danofsatx 17:07
adamw well, let's say 'next time' 17:07
cmurf F21 planning: I don't know how to achieve this but I think it's inherently valuable to stick the final release date, as it's set once beta go has occurred. 17:08
Viking-Ice you mean fake christmas with coca cola santa 17:08
adamw but if people want to, we can 17:08
Viking-Ice Yule (real christmas ) is on the 21 dec 17:08
adamw cmurf: yeah, i would like that too, it's what i'm trying to work towards with these proposals 17:08
cmurf yeah, a 2 week slip on beta is not the same as a 2 week slip of final 17:09
adamw that's why i keep talking about how can we ensure things we want working at final are actually tested by beta 17:09
adamw anyhoo, next time :) 17:09
handsome_pirate Viking-Ice: If you think about it, that Jesus dude was likely born in August 17:09
cmurf yes please 17:09
handsome_pirate Viking-Ice: So, it's all fake :) 17:09
adamw handsome_pirate: dec 21 is the winter solstice, the one inarguably significant event that happens during the period :) 17:10
adamw no matter your calendar or creed...everyone notes the solstice 17:10
cmurf we value the photons from our local star 17:10
adamw #topic Open floor 17:11
adamw anyone have something important that needs to be covered now? 17:11
adamw (since we're over time, trivial stuff to the list or next time) 17:11
handsome_pirate adamw: Indeed :) 17:11
* danofsatx plans trivial question for qa channel later 17:11
Viking-Ice so post mortem release QA meeting on the 23 17:11
* handsome_pirate wonders why the year isn't shifted so that Jan 1 is on the solstice 17:12
Viking-Ice danofsatx 42 17:12
handsome_pirate lol 17:12
adamw Viking-Ice: something like that...well, figure this was the post mortem, next week is the reanimation :P 17:13
cmurf bring a cat 17:13
Viking-Ice well we have 13 santa's so I bring one of the with me 17:13
* danofsatx wonders if the wife will miss her pure black devil of a feline 17:14
handsome_pirate cmurf: cat? 17:14
Viking-Ice or as we call them yule lads 17:14
Viking-Ice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_Lads 17:14
handsome_pirate cmurf: I usually have my towel with me, but a cat? 17:14
cmurf reanimations require at least one cat per reanimation, duh 17:14
Viking-Ice ignore that coca cola dress they are wearing 17:15
Viking-Ice on that wikipedia image 17:15
cmurf ok so Rawhide is how raw usually? 17:15
satellit_e Schrodinger's cat? 17:15
adamw sounds like december is the ideal time of year to be a shoe thief in iceland 17:15
cmurf is there at least one build a week that'll install and boot or what? 17:15
handsome_pirate cmurf: Bring a towel 17:15
handsome_pirate adamw: LOL 17:15
handsome_pirate adamw: December is a bad time to be in Iceland 17:16
adamw cmurf: installing rawhide is usually the dodgiest part, it's usually easier to install previous release and update to it 17:16
Viking-Ice adamw, yeah if you only want to steal left shoes ;) 17:16
roshi for remember, everyone should watch "Rare Exports" for christmas 17:16
adamw cmurf: i fedup'ed to rawhide (first time i ever tried that) two days ago, went fine 17:16
sgallagh adamw: That's one place where I've been trying to recommend some automation work. 17:16
cmurf ok, and how about trying to blow up anaconda 21 17:16
nirik yeah, once you are installed, it's usually fine... there's occasional breakage, but usually workaroundable until it gets fixed 17:16
adamw sgallagh: which place? 17:16
sgallagh Build into the composes that it should reject any build for which a simple 'minimal' install fails. 17:16
Viking-Ice handsome_pirate, mid Janurary to end of February or early mars is a bad time to be in Icelands 17:16
adamw sgallagh: well, it's not like we're unaware of the *place*. 17:17
nirik sgallagh: we should circle back around to that... we had a good meeting or two on it. ;) 17:17
adamw sgallagh: it's the *work* bit that's the tricky part. 17:17
sgallagh nirik: Yes, that would be interesting. 17:17
adamw sgallagh: once upon a time, a year or two ago, we had an autoqa test that did a kickstart-driven minimal install of fedora and reported the error if it failed. 17:17
sgallagh adamw: Certainly. I'd like to hear more about that, because I'd like to be able to include a request for the time to accomplish that as part of our post-WG-report requests. 17:17
adamw that took several months of work and stopped working soon after, because automated tests need care and feeding and we didn't have the time because we don't have enough people and we're on a release train... 17:17
adamw anyhoo 17:18
Viking-Ice adamw, have the WG write those automation test they need 17:18
adamw we're now 18 mins over time, so i guess we'll be back next week :) 17:18
sgallagh Viking-Ice: Build us a framework and we'll do our best. 17:18
adamw we built two, take yer pick :P 17:18
Viking-Ice or we adopt an existing one 17:18
adamw thanks for coming, folks 17:19
adamw #endmeeting 17:19

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