ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-dec-10

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Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2007-12-10

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering meeting<a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
f13ping notting jeremy rdieter wwoods spot lmacken poelcat jwb<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
* notting is here<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
jwbhere<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
rdieterhere<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
jeremyf13: I'll be back in just a minute<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
* poelcat here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* wwoods here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
jeremyok<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13alright.<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13I suspect spot is sleeping off the jet lag<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13oh warren ping<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
jeremyI was talking to him before lunch, but perhaps<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13well, once again not much on the agenda.<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13FC6 is dead.<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
wwoodsso long, zod<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13We're going to try reversing the netapp streams next week<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13(sync from PHX to other places rather than from RDU)<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13and we have a buildsystem refresh coming<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13and a glibc/gcc update coming that could use a mass rebuild<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
* poelcat put out a 2nd request for feature pages<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoodsI'm working on a rawhide dashboard (<a href="http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html">http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html</a>)<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
jeremywwoods: coolio<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwbf13, update for what?<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
wwoodsneed to find a way to get mash and/or the rawhide sync to send a signal to the rawhide monitor thingy<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jeremyjwb: gcc 4.3<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
wwoodsso the top section(s) of that page get updated after rawhide finishes building/syncing<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwbjeremy, and glibc?<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
poelcatwwoods: will it signal whether it is installable?<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jeremyjwb: no big glibc change that I know of<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
wwoodspoelcat: yes<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jwbyet<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13maybe I was mistaken on the glibc<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodspoelcat: it checks to see if the tree is there, checks the metadata, checks for boot images<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jwbwwoods, so does it have a way to query why something went bad?<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13re-reading the mail it looks like just gcc<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodsif there's boot images it will (eventually) launch automatic tests and report those results<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodswell, it links to the logs<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodsso you can figure it out<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jwbit does?<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
poelcatf13: glibc goes to 2.8<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jwboh, i see<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jwbpoelcat, not until the end<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jwbwwoods, odd.  a 0 log for ppc<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
poelcatwwoods: why "make the user figure out it"... why not a clear status that says "WORKY" or "NOWORKY"<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jwbanyway, this is cool<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
* poelcat has a daily internal rhts job doing the same thing right now<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoodspoelcat: there *is* clear status<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
* jwb wonders why ppc has a log size of 0<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoodseither "no tree", "bad/missing metadata", "no boot images", or "tree OK"<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoodsfollowed by results of the attempted install test<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13jwb: because the pungify-ppc didn't actually comlete<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13complete<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
jwbf13, i see that<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodswill will probably be either "OK" or "FAIL" with a link to anaconda logs<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13due to an nfs mounting error which I have reported to mmcgrath<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodserr which will ..<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
jwbf13, i see that too :)<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13jwb: I'm going to try it again manually in a few minutes.<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodsI can't magically determine why anaconda failed when it fails<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
jwbf13, ok cool<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodsbut there should be obvious pass/fail status<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodsso yeah.<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jwbwwoods, we need the doom-o-meter on there<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jwbotherwise it's cool<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
jwb*crickets*<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsah yes, the doom-o-meter!<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsyeah that'll come once I have the other bits working<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
jwbcool<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsbut yeah, the main thing is working out a way for the rawhide build/sync process to signal that it's ready for smoke testing<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
f13and that has some entertaining details if we reverse the stream<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
nottingf13: actually, it's a lot simpler<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13since we'd just be doing an rsync to $box in phx as part of compose, and relying upon snapmirror to move the bits around.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13notting: we can't tell $process when the bits are ready in RDU<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
nottingf13: but we can tell them when they're ready in phx. which is probably 'close enough'<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
nottingas that's public<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13but not nfs mountable by wwoods' farm.<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13which is the problem he's going to face<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoodsI don't need nfs mountability<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13I thought you did for some tests?<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoodsnot really.<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13(well, the obvious one being nfs install test)<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoodsthe stuff is designed to use http/ftp for installs, since that seems to be the typical way people get trees and do network installs<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
f13sure, that just means we'll miss nfs install bugs until later (:<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
jeremyf13: the really scary ones are iso based methods... so meh.<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13heh<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodswell, I can set up some stuff to wait for the bits to land in RDU to do local nfs-using tests on a local cluster<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsbut for doing simple smoke tests<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsyou kind of want that to happen as soon as the bits are built<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsNFS is tier2<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
* jeremy would be quite happy with some ftp/http smoketesting and isn't going to look a gift horse in the mouth :)<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
wwoodsa simple %packages --default http kickstart install would make a good basic smoketest<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
wwoodsand/or %packages @base<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
* f13 neither<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoods%packages --default kickstart install covers a lot of the key codepaths - if that works we're not completely doomed<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13by all means, do whatever you can for the love of god (:<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsso, hm. if I set up something (e.g. an xmlrpc/cgi thing) could you have it be pinged as soon as the bits are baked?<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13couldn't you set a watch on a file ?<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
f13like if we touched a file that said "all done"?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
poelcatwwoods: why can't you go off of internal gridtrees (or whatever it is called)<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13poelcat: that's not used by Fedora<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoodsbecause gridtrees is a horrible abomination<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoodsthat must be stopped<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
poelcatbut it tells you when a new rawhide tree is there<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoodsand also it's internal-only<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoodsjust no.<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13poelcat: I don't recall any current code that touches gridtrees<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoodsif gridtrees is being updated with rawhide info that's a side-effect or a hack<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoodshorrible deprecated<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoodsugh<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoodsthe entire point of having .composeinfo/.treeinfo was to stop using gridtrees<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13yeah, no rawhide content in gridtrees<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoodsyou really really really don't want multiple processes writing the same file over NFS<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13yes, much doomage<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13wwoods: so theoretically we can "ping" you in some form.<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13the most simple way possible would be preferred<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
wwoodsf13: yeah, if you write a given file last<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoodsor atomically move the tree into place after syncing it to a temp location<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13actually, the repodata files are synced last<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoodsI'd prefer that the signal was a push rather than having to poll<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13but you're right<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
jwbthinking generally, it might be nice to have a compose framework<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13a very simplistic push would be best<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
jwbala, koji, but for composes<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13jwb: and what would it do?<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwbsomething the secondary arches could plug into to get notification of mashing and send it when they've finished composing<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
wwoodsf13: right. I can set up a .cgi and you can just do something like 'wget ${cgi_url}?newtree=${dirname}'<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
wwoodsor similar<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13nod<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoodsor just ${cgi_url}?dopoll=true<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoodswhatevs<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13jwb: ok, yeah, I had at one point evisioned a big communication bus between things like bodhi, koji, composes, etc... that things could subscribe too just for notifications ( police scanner ) , drop messages on, or otherwise react to calls.<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
jwbyeah<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoodsyeah, we've talked about that in QA-land as well<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
nottingf13: dbus++?<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoodsthere's messaging stuff going on in RH (aqmp for example) but those are a bit fancy for us, I think<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
nottingf13: steroiD-bus?<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
jwbnotting, er fbus man<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoodsdbus supports multihost stuff, doesn't it?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwbdoes it?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
wwoodsit has some vestigial support for doing that anyway<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwbwhere's J5?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
wwoodsthere's a tcp transport for dbus<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
J5jwb: here<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwbJ5, can dbus do multihost stuff?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwbeasily?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwbso that a 5 year old could code something up?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
J5multihost?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwbJ5, machine 1 sends an event on the bus and machines 2-5 get it<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
wwoodsit's not very well documented IIRC, but you can do stuff like: <listen>tcp:host=localhost,port=12434</listen><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
wwoodsin dbus system.conf<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
jwbwwoods, is there an equivalent broadcast?<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
wwoodsyou'd think you could use multicast for that<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
wwoodsbut now I'm speculating wildly<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
J5jwb: ya, not sure what our tcp support is like<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
nottingmaybe amqp is better for this<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
* jwb shrugs<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
J5we are primarily a local bus<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
jwbthat's what i thought<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
J5tubes has multicast support I think<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
J5we do dbus over tubes on the OLPC<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
wwoodsthat sounds like it might be the Right Thing To Do<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13"tubes"<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
wwoodsoh, so tubes is.. basically dbus over xmpp?<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
J5wwoods: tubes abstracts the transport<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
wwoodswell, details aside because.. yeah<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
wwoodsheh<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
J5xmpp is one of the transports<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
wwoodsbut yeah. sounds like Tubes is the answer for "dbus over network"<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13so...<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13we're pretty far off in the weeds<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
wwoodsright. that's like a post-f9/f10 kind of target<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwbsure<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13wwoods: if you get something simple up that can be poked via urllib or whatnot, let us know and we will update the compose job<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
wwoodsfor testing f9 I'll set up some cutely stupid cgi that you can poke<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13but under a similar topic of 'weeds', who all is going to be at FUDCon?<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13and if there is a number of us, should we get together and voice some things out?<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
nottingi suppose i can make the trip<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
wwoodssince F9 is going to become RHEL6 when it gets growed up, the RHEL QA guys are going to be working on F9/rawhide testing<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13notting: now kind of you<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
wwoodsyeah I'll probably be at FUDCon, seeing as it's, y'know, here<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
nottingf13: heh<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
nottingf13: i suspect if i try and expense travel someone will laugh at me<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13notting: sadly, you could probably get away with it<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
nottingf13: are you coming?<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13yes<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13I'm assuming wwoods will be there<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
* jeremy isn't going to be at fudcon<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13and j5 will be<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
wwoodsI'll be there, yeah.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13well maybe will figure out something to do then.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13On the signing server front, I think Mike McGrath is ready for testing new hosted environment, and we're going to be fodder.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
jwbcool<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
f13so we may ahve a public repo in the next day or 3.  Luke and I are going to get together and hash out some of the API stuff, and I think I'm going ot let him work on the server side, and I'll focus on a fedora specific client for it that deals with koji and figuring out /what/ to sign and where to import the signed copy from<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
lmackenI did a bunch of hacking on the signing server over the weekend<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13this may need a new koji call, to be able to import from 'relative' location, relative to the koji server.<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
lmackenit's almost ready for testing<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13cool<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13Are there any other topics people would like to discuss?<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
* wwoods sits on hands<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
jwboh, i will not be at FUDCon<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
f13darn<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
jwbno surprise there<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
f13jwb: what about the Boston one with RH Summit attached?<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
jwbwhen is that?<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
f13June 18-20<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13although I may not actually be around then, let me check.<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jwbi'll try to get to that one<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13anywho, hours up, seems we're done.  Back on your heads!<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See ttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
--- Log closed Mon Dec 10 20:53:28 2007

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