ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-jul-30

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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2007-07-30

F8 Test 1 Status

1. 247863 is not; but I do believe we can find somebody with time to bang out a fix for this in short order. So while not a blocker, I'd really like to see this fixed as it is very visible. 1. 249597 is totally blocker (insta-reboot issue) 1. 249908 (adding extra repo at install time) not a blocker, just a /really/ nice to have. 1. 250047 is fixed with new policy, just need to clicky the buttons 1. 250130 is no pata support on ppc mac minis (potentially more ppc32 hardware).

  • going to spin again this evening with the things we've fixed so far and sync that up too

Summary: Decision as to whether we need to slip Fedora 8 Test 1 will be made tomorrow.

Fedora 8 Test 1 - What to deliver

  • Release Engineering will produce the following for Fedora 8 Test1

1. Fedora installable spin

  • i386
  • x86_64
  • ppc
  • source

1. Fedora {i386,x86_64} Live image 1. KDE {i386,x86_64 Live} image 1. Everything tree will be provided by standard Rawhide ("development") locations

IRC Transcript

Idea.png f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Fedora 8 Test 1<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
f13notting: poelcat: warren: rdieter: wwoods: jwb_gone: spot: ping<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* notting is here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* spot is here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13jeremy is on vacation,<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
rdieterhere (still)<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13ooh, /me notices rdieter here.<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* wwoods here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13so Test 1 status.  Doom-o-meter is scary high<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13Dell; still b0rked.<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
* warren here<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13ppc ide; b0rked.<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
wwoodsnot just confined to Dell anymore - someone reported the same problem on a toshiba laptop<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
warrenAny bug # for the Dell issue?  Do we have ANY idea what's going on?<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13wheee<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
wwoodswarren: x86 setup code was rewritten post-2.6.22<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13adding external repos at install time; b0rked (clumens is working on it now)<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
warrenwwoods, so in-kernel definitely?<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
nottingf13: in the ui, or in the backend (does ks work?)<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
wwoodswarren: definitely. bug #249597<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13firstboot; b0rked in multiple ways (non-fatal traceback; won't launch if rhgb doesn't run)<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13notting: haven't tried ks.  In the UI there is a traceback when it starts to add package objects to the transaction set.<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13We didn't have an installable rawhide until yesterday, we /still/ don't have an installable ppc rawhide, but those 4 users wouldn't notice anyway.<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
nottingdo we have installable ppc test trees/<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13yes<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
wwoodsCan I propose that the pre-Test1 freeze for each release from now on be, like, two weeks?<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
wwoodsBecause damn.<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13on reducto and on koji.fp.o/rel-eng/trees/<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
nottingwwoods: surely part of the solution is to start testing pre-freeze<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13wwoods: not a /horrible/ idea, but sucks as developers to have non-critical devel/ builds stagnate.<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodsnotting: indeed, indeed<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13notting: yes.  I thought I was doing testing, but obviously not sufficient enough<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13I was keeping the tool working, rather than testing the output (which is also important)<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13that and changing the toolchain after the freeze Did Not Help.<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13On the plus side, on Friday the Live images stuff still looked pretty good<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13including installation from them.<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
wwoodsyeah we really need to be doing nightly install tests on rawhide.<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
wwoodsit is unavoidable. Once we cram t1 out the door I'm gonna set that up again.<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13right now clumens may have fixed nfs-iso method, and is working on the adding repos thing.<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
wwoods(err work on setting that up again)<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13after that I may have him raise the bar for doing boot.iso gui http installs as I can reliably freeze a box with 256 megs<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13that's not a high priority though so any new anaconda fun will go in front of that.<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13oh wait, we should have him poke at firstboot instead.<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodsfirstboot traceback is a s-c-securitylevel bug<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13wwoods: there are other problems<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodslooks like a fairly easy patch but nobody seems to have gotten around to it<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13like, it can't launch an X of it's own if rhgb didn't launch<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodsreally? great.<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13and not for the same reasons we just fixed rhgb for<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
warrenf13, do we have any affected Dell machines in the office?<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
f13warren: cebbert has one.<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
f13which is rather fitting.<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
warrengood<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
wwoodsoh cebbert is in the "boston" office? cool<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
f13yeah<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
f13so we need a couple decisions<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
f13we need to figure out which of these problems are full-stop release blockers, and if so, what our deadline is to have them fixed before we introduce slippage.<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods<a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=F8Test1">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=F8Test1</a> for those of you keeping score at home.<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
f13I think we can easily come up with the point of no return for slippage, and that would be having it fixed tonight.<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13to spin trees early morning, and even that is cutting it close.<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13(also we need some consensus on what all we're going to deliver, but we'll get to that)<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoodsso, examining the old standby <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria</a><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
warrensorry back, connection died<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
wwoodstest release bare-minimum is: boot and install on all arches, yum upgrade works, no data corruptors, etc.<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
wwoodsand currently we don't boot on a whole mess of machines<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13yes, that is definitely a blocker<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
wwoodstechnically, though, firstboot is not part of our current release criteria<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13bug 247863 is not; but I do believe we can find somebody with time to bang out a fix for this in short order.  So while not a blocker, I"d really like to see this fixed as it is very visible.<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
wwoodsI'd suggest we might change the criteria in that area though<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13249597 is totally blocker (insta-reboot issue)<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13249908 (adding extra repo at install time) not a blocker, just a /really/ nice to have.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13250047 is fixed with new policy, just need to clicky the buttons<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13and 250130 is no pata support on ppc mac minis (potentially more ppc32 hardware).  While technically could be considered a blocker, I think the vast amounts of users that would be effected by this can just suffer.<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13does anybody else have any other opinions regarding the above bugs?<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
nottingwell, we're waiting in 249597. so, i'm not sure any of the others need to be moved off the blocker as long as that's the case<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoods249908 is final-blocker, not a test-blocker.. technically ppc is still a first-class arch so 250130 would probably be a blocker<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
f13notting: no, I'm not moving any off, but I just want to set the expectation that if the insta-reboot gets fixed, we're not going to hold up on any of the other nonblockers<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
wwoodsbut yeah, it's all moot because 249597 is a full-fledged stop-the-presses blocker<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
f13(there is a reason the tracker is just 'F8Test1' and not 'F8Test1Blockers'<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
f13but obviously if we can't fix 249597 today, we're slipping.<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsso let's talk firstboot - we've got *two* bugs now? can't start its own X, and the s-c-securitylevel traceback?<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsf13: right.<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13wwoods: yes.  Arguably the traceback isn't a firstboot bug, just one triggered /by/ firstboot.<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13I should hope it would be pretty straight forward to fix s-c-securitylevel.  Obviously the maintainer isn't paying attention to anything (perhaps time to ring somebody's bell?)<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
wwoodsright, yes, it's not a firstboot but, but it prevents firstboot from running<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodserr "firstboot bug, but..."<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13wwoods: no it doesn't<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsaroo? it did for me<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13wwoods: you click "ok" or whatever on the error popup and firstboot continues on happily<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodshuh! didn't know that.<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsmea culpa then<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13it's still pug ugly and we'll get a shitton of email/bugreports/nastygrams about it so we should fix it<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
wwoodsyeah, I'd like to poke the s-c-securitylevel maintainer about it<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13failing that, notting can you pinch-hit here?<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
wwoodsit seems like we'll be slipping for the dell bug anyway so we might have a window to fix the firstboot problems<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
nottingf13: for? twoerner?<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
nottingafaik, he's around somewhere<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
f13notting: if that's the owner of s-c-securitylevel yes.  I'm a bit peeved that this hasn't been fixed yet, but I don't know what his current workload is.  What would have been useful is dropping a note that he couldn't fix it in time, get somebody else to look at it.<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
f13hey good, clumens duped the problem when using an added repo at install time.  There is potential for a fix there.<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
nottingf13: have you tracked him down on irc?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13notting: no, I've bene chasing other fires.<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoodswhat about the firstboot-cant-start-X thing?<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
wwoodsdo we have someone on that?<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
nottingbug#?<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13so that's where we're at.  I'm going to poke a bit at firstboot to look at why it can't launch X ( at least get some logging out of it )<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoodsf13: is that filed?<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13wwoods: I don't think so.  I probably should once I figure out how it's actually not happening<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoodsf13: righteous. I'm sure I'll get mail when you add it to the tracker. Lemme know if you need help reproducing.<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13k<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoodsI'm probably gonna mess around with PPC installs some more - the tree on koji.fp.o is up-to-date, right?<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13and it looks like twoerner is actually working on s-c-sl right now.<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoodscool!<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13wwoods: yes, that's what I spun yesterday and there were no package changes since then.<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f13I'm going to spin again this evening with the things we've fixed so far and sync that up too<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
Idea.png f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Fedora 8 Test 1 - What to deliver<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13So for Fedora 7, we did a different content set each test release as we were feeling our way toward the final set which was the Fedora spins, and a set of Everything repos<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13Ideally, from a 'getting bits spun and in place' for the test release we'd just do the Fedora spin and rely upon rawhide as our 'Everything' tree.<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13(and for our debuginfo tree)<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
wwoodssounds reasonable.<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
warren"Everything" is a checkbox during anaconda?<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13we'd still probably have to spin source isos for the FEdora spin for those pesky legal reasons but...<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13warren: not there currently<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13warren: probably want to land the ability to use mirrorlists in anaconda add repos first<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13and there are some interesting side effects to adding a second repo that duplicates a lot of the content<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13like, what repo is yum going to pull the packages from?<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13seth has got a 'priorities' like plugin that I need to test that we'd want to use in anaconda to ensure that the main repo (install method) is used for all possible packages, only going to add-on repos for things not available in the main repo<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
* rdieter likes the sound of that.<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
f13yeah, can be quite the useful little plugin.  Originally I wanted it for mock<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13but I'm finding other places where it would be really useful.<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13Does anybody see a reason why we should deliver anything more than 'Fedora installable spin i386,x86_64,ppc + source, Fedora i386,x86_64 Live image, and KDE i386,x86_64 Live image'<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
wwoodssounds fine<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
wwoodsSomeday we should talk about delivering just live media, in two sizes (CD and DVD). But not now.<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
rdieterthe only possible addition would be Everything spin? (or something else?)<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13wwoods: that has deep hurt until you can do upgrades from Live<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13rdieter: yeah, Everything is what's missing.<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13<@twoerner> jk_meeting: 1.7.0-4_fc8 is building<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13*ROCK*<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13Ok, so<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
Idea.png f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Fedora 8 Test 1 - Open Discussion'<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
poelcatf13: what was summary on last topic?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13anything else related to Test1 that anybody would like to discuss?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13poelcat: rel-eng will deliver for Test1 'Fedora installable spin i386,x86_64,ppc + source, Fedora i386,x86_64 Live image, and KDE i386,x86_64 Live image'<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
poelcatf13: thanks!<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
wwoodsf13: right, that's the "someday"<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
wwoodsheh<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13poelcat: with a side note "Everything tree will be provided by standard Rawhide locations"<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13If there's nothing else I'd like to call the meeting and get back to work.<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13Any objections?<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
wwoodswe should have that as a checkbox in the "additional repo" list for test2 and on<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13wwoods: as stated before, we need a few things first; support for mirror lists; priority plugin to prevent you from skipping local media and downloading everything off the net<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13wwoods: not totally unreasonable, and I'd consider throwing up a Feature page for this<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
wwoodsor some other way of tracking it, yeah<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
poelcatf13: what was recap for first topic?... wait and see how tonight looks?<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
wwoodswe're blocked on the Dell bug, which won't be fixed tonight, so we'll be using this window to try to get fixes in for the other tracked issues<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13poelcat: yes, decision on slipping will be made tomorrow.<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
* poelcat attempts to publish minutes in near-real-time for a change<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13poelcat: awesome.  Thank you again so much for this.<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
poelcatf13: you're welcome :)<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>

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