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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-01-14

Meeting Higlights

DECISION: slip alpha freeze by one week, re-evaluate state next meeting; hold to planned GA date

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting<a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
f13ping jeremy jwb wwoods warren rdieter spot lmacken notting poelcat<a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
* spot is here<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
rdieterhere (mostly)<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
jwbhere<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Fedora 9 Alpha<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* lmacken <a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13alright that's likely enough to get started.<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13although I'd like wwoods  :/<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13so, alpha, supposed to freeze tomorrow<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13which would normally mean freezing tonight right after rawhide compose.<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13so that rawhide tomorrow == freeze content<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
wwoodsdoop<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13however, our tree is in an interesting state<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13wwoods: is it installable today?<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
wwoodsAs far as I can tell.. no<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
* poelcat here<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
nottingis it uninstallable in a different way than it has been uninstallable previously?<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoodstraces back when it tries to start the transaction<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoodsnotting: yes!<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoodswe have X and disks now!<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoodssubject to the normal X caveats, e.g. "no X on sis"<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
wwoodsI think dhcp is still screwed on x86_64<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
wwoodsif you click on the "Upgrade existing system" item, the installer crashes<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13yeah...<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodsthat's what I've got so far<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodsit's better than last week but a long way from installable<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
spoti just pulled out two more fontsets<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
spotbut that shouldn't affect anything<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
wwoodsI might try yum upgrading an F8 box just to do *some* functional testing<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoodsbut it's been weeks since we had an installable rawhide<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoodsand that's a killer<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13yes.  I'm not comfortable at all snapshotting for alpha at this point.<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13so that would mean talking about a slip<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
nottingdo we have a quick virtual whiteboard of issues?<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
f13is in channel OK?<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods<a href=""></a> has what I've got so far<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoodsI'll be adding the transaction crash and upgrade crash shortly<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jwbi just fixed nautilus-open-terminal<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jwbbut that shouldn't make any difference either<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoodsbut yeah, I've done *zero* functional testing<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
nottingi think 422421 is fixed<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoods422061 is probably OK too<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoodsat least it should be non-NEW<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13but more importantly, no new installs are possible<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13so we don't know where there are problems.<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13rather where /else/<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsright<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodshow long's the freeze?<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13week~<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsso. we want a week with an installable tree to shape it up<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
wwoodsdo we push the freeze until we've got an installable tree, or freeze now and extend the freeze until we hit that target?<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
clumensTHUD<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13I wanted chris to pop buy and help us make this decision.<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jwbhow likely will gdm allow logout in a week?<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13clumens: we're discussing the alpha freeze tomorrow and the current state of things.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
* spot would be happy if gdm allowed reliable LOGIN<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
clumensalright<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13to be perfectly honest, I'd be happy if you can install, and get updates<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
wwoodsyeah, so long as people can get updates we can push fixes at them later<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoodsbut if they can't get the bits on their system we're boned<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
poelcatdo we have an alpha tracking bug so folks can follow along at home?<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoodspoelcat: not yet. one should be created.<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jwbi have some kernel bugs to log myself.  kernel hates my laptop<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
clumensf13: well we have hard drives today, and X starts on hardware that X runs on<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
clumensthough apparently there's some rpmdb thing now that i have not gotten a chance to investigate<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13right, and network x86_64 is still boned<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
clumensstatic networking is probably busted too<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
wwoodsoh right, forgot about that<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsdcantrell where art thou?<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13wwoods: so what would you like to see before we take the snapshot?<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
clumenswwoods: 1300-0600 = probably still asleep<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
* jwb notes that with everything being broken he hasn't done any ppc spins<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsoh he's at UTC-6? good to know<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
clumenswwoods: EST-6<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsf13: installable on i386, at a bare minimum<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
clumenshawaii and all<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
wwoodsclumens: oh duh. noted. thanks.<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
poelcatwwoods: all: tracker created <a href=""></a><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
buggbotBug 428703: low, low, ---, Bill Nottingham, NEW , Fedora 9 Alpha Tracking bug<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
clumensso if you're asking how i feel about anaconda right now, total mixed bag<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
wwoodsoh for the love of crap. my kingdom for a working CDRW<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoodsI haven't seen a crash this colorful since the old DOS days. so that's kinda cool.<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoodsanyway, yeah, are we going to push the freeze back or extend it?<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
f13I'd rather push it back<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwbit's a rel-eng only freeze right?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13yes<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwbthen why push it back?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13jwb: because it's not as if we're comfortable of have any idea whats going on outside of installer, so there isn't really a point to freeze that right now anyway<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
poelcatand the whole point of the alpha that it installs<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwbf13, i wouldn't say we have no idea<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwbbut ok<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoods/fobpath/?<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13usb fob<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
* wwoods confused by this directory<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
wwoodsah<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
wwoodshm. I should use mine.<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
clumensso, you're saying i should get back to work?<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoodsyeah. slacker.<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoodsI'll get you some info on that transaction crash RSN<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoodsahh, I love the new URL entry screen (with proxy support and everything!)<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
f13so how do we feel about a week slip, and re-evaluate next monday?<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
wwoodsI feel OK about it<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwbi feel it would be good<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
nottingwe have nowhere to go but up?<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
clumenswe came a long way this weekend<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jwbwell... we could go sideways... get anaconda working, and then everything after crashes?<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoodserror: no dbpath has been set (?!)<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
wwoodserror: cannot open Packages database in /mnt/sysimage/%{_dbpath}<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f13cute<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
wwoodssounds like that might be an easy thing to fix, though<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13nod<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13ok, so I'll announce the slip and we'll have a work to get things better.<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
wwoodsa week to work?<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13yes<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Discussion<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
jwbF9 names?<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
clumensi wonder if rpm has changed<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwblegal got back to us<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13jwb: Yeah, can you get a vote setup with toshio?<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwbyep, was just going to see if that's who i had to bug<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwbbtw, most of the good names were yanked :(<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
clumensso it's down to tasticles and popplers?<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
rdieterha<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwbclumens, there's a much larger list than last time.  but most of the ones people said "yeah!" at were cut<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13I liked bathysphere<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwbi think that one's still there<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
wwoodsnice!<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13nod<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13notting and I made some progress at making the rawhide creation process less tearful<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
jwboh?<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13we'll have to enact it soon, which includes an upgrade of releng1 to rhel5<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
nottingalthough it's in a holding pattern for a bit<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13ah<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
nottingwell, skvidal will fix up createrepo. but more fixage requires func-ification<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13notting: I'm not convinced that func is the answer<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13notting: more realisticaly we need koji integration<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13or else it's just a slightly better method of what we hav enow.<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
nottingwell, there are two routes<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting- a func module that controlls mock (you can set it up to create buildroots, etc.)<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
notting- grand unified koji bits, so koji has a 'make me a rawhide' button<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
nottingthe second seems overkill<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13that's not what I'm talking about at all<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
nottingthe first is nice in that you don't actually need to worry about what the koji repos are<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13we just need a koji runroot function<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13run "command" in chroot of <tag><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13upload results to /path/<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
nottingright, but rawhide is already running on its own repos<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
nottingnot the koji ones<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13which is fixable.<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
nottinghow is running on a potentially stale (vis-a-vis static-repo creation) repo better?<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13because then we allow koji to better pick a builder to use, registers the weight of the run on the builder itself, and handles passing the bits around for us.<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
notting.... passing the bits?<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13notting: if you're that worried, you can trigger a newRepo task right before starting mash, and taskwait said newRepo for the buildinstall phase.<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13notting: kojibuilder can upload the output via xmlrpc to the hub, which writes it out in /mnt/koji/ somewhere.<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
jwbpoelcat, where is the rel-eng schedule at?<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13/mnt/koji/runroot/<task>/output<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
nottingyeah, but 'output' is a pretty amorphous concept for pungify<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13either way we're going to have to modify koji<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13or we'll just keep ignoring the fact that rawhide tasks will abuse builders and not register as weight and we'll continue having problems of delayed rawhide due to builds.<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13and builds getting delayed due to rawhide.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
nottingyes. the other thing is that a mock controller in func might be picked up quicker in general by others, but that shouldn't be a deciding factor<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13nod<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
nottingwhich led me wondering if koji would have been written differently if func predated it. which is neither here nor there.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
poelcatjwb: <a href=""></a><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
jwbpoelcat, ah thanks<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
nottingf13: short-term, we can do 'check load ; koji disable-builder', etc. which would require some auth tricks (certificate or otherwise)<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
f13notting: yeah, we could do that.<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
nottingother note: as mentioned on fedora-admin, the current schedule for reversing the sync streams is february 4th<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
nottingwhich will require some changes around rawhide & bodhi, although not necessarily *in* bodhi<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
f13ok, we're off in the weeds.<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13poelcat: decision: slip alpha freeze a week, re-evaluate state next meeting.<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>

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