Meeting:IRC Support SIG 2009-03-19

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---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG meeting - Init process Mar 19 09:30
nirik who all is around for the irc support sig meeting? Mar 19 09:30
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*thomasj Mar 19 09:30
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*nirik will wait a few more for folks to wander in. Mar 19 09:32
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*Southern_Gentlem Mar 19 09:33
*zcat Mar 19 09:33
*EvilBob Mar 19 09:33
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*ivazquez will have to read the log today unfortunately Mar 19 09:34
nirik ok, I guess we can go ahead and get started... Mar 19 09:34
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG meeting - meeting logs Mar 19 09:34
nirik speaking of meeting logs, I uploaded to the wiki all the meeting logs from 2009. :) I will fill in the rest of the missing ones soon... Mar 19 09:34
nirik so if you need to look at any old meetings, feel free. Mar 19 09:35
EvilBob I have a suggestion for meetings Mar 19 09:35
nirik https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Support_Channel_Meetings has links to them. and you should be able to search the "Meeting" namespace on the wiki Mar 19 09:35
nirik EvilBob: go ahead... Mar 19 09:36
EvilBob In some meetings in the past regular users that are sometimes a "problem" have been named Mar 19 09:36
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EvilBob I feel this is in bad form Mar 19 09:36
roguedevil +1 Mar 19 09:37
EvilBob it puts a target on them Mar 19 09:37
EvilBob what should be discussed is the behavior Mar 19 09:37
EvilBob not that <JoeAsshole> is the actor Mar 19 09:37
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Southern_Gentlem +1 Mar 19 09:37
thomasj I thought we discussed the behaviour.. maybe i have a bad memory Mar 19 09:38
zcat +1 guilty Mar 19 09:38
nirik yeah, I would agree... sometimes someone gets mentioned in relation to a specific behavior tho... Mar 19 09:38
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EvilBob When I was an op in another IRC channel years ago this was strictly forbidden and I think it was a good idea Mar 19 09:38
nirik we can try and avoid doing that. Mar 19 09:38
Southern_Gentlem EvilBob, i agree with you Mar 19 09:38
*nirik nods. Mar 19 09:38
EvilBob just food for thought based on experiences Mar 19 09:39
nirik I don't want to point fingers, I just want things to get better. Mar 19 09:39
Southern_Gentlem i also think that if we need to talk about a specific user we have an executive session to do it Mar 19 09:39
nirik ok, I think we all agree, shall we move along... Mar 19 09:39
roguedevil in -ops Mar 19 09:40
Southern_Gentlem yep Mar 19 09:40
EvilBob nirik: I would ask that now that logs of these meetigns are posted any of this kind of thing should be censored from the posted logs ASAP Mar 19 09:40
roguedevil i thought nirik was already doing that Mar 19 09:40
nirik EvilBob: hum. Is that really practical? Mar 19 09:40
EvilBob nirik: I think it is important Mar 19 09:41
nirik ie, the barn door is open and the horses are in googles pasture... Mar 19 09:41
Southern_Gentlem yes because the perosns nick was mentioned needs to be removed from the logs Mar 19 09:41
roguedevil its the fact that they are posted thats the problem Mar 19 09:41
*lkundrak has no idea at all what is being talked about Mar 19 09:41
roguedevil nirik: didnt you already do that before? or was it just the first one heh Mar 19 09:41
nirik EvilBob: I can try and go in and edit them... I don't guess there were too many meetings where that was the case... Mar 19 09:42
Southern_Gentlem i will try to look over them this weekend as well Mar 19 09:42
nirik roguedevil: I have never edited the meeting logs in any way. Mar 19 09:42
roguedevil hrm Mar 19 09:42
roguedevil must have been someone else i guess Mar 19 09:43
nirik we were mostly just good about not mentioning names... but I think that fell apart in 2-3 meetings. Mar 19 09:43
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EvilBob it may just be those few meetings that are burned in to memory Mar 19 09:43
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roguedevil it will come up again probably Mar 19 09:44
roguedevil no namedropping Mar 19 09:44
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nirik ok, shall we move along? we will try and XXXX any user names in the logs... Mar 19 09:46
Southern_Gentlem move on Mar 19 09:46
EvilBob yup I am good Mar 19 09:46
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG meeting - ban lists Mar 19 09:46
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roguedevil give thomasj a round of applause everyone! Mar 19 09:47
nirik do we want to look at wiping the ban list every quarter or something? Or leave it alone, or make sure they all expire? Mar 19 09:47
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thomasj Well, there are a few very nasty people in the ban list. Mar 19 09:47
thomasj roguedevil, ha ha ;P Mar 19 09:47
roguedevil thomasj: that would have been a perfect opportunity to leave it empty Mar 19 09:47
Southern_Gentlem makes a motion to remove all bans from thomasj in ban list except root and tor Mar 19 09:47
roguedevil i arrived too late though Mar 19 09:47
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EvilBob even "long time" problems go away after a while like porn spammers Mar 19 09:48
Southern_Gentlem i am not singleing thomasj out anyway negatively just easier to state it that way Mar 19 09:48
roguedevil nirik: but as thomasj pointed out, there are a few that need to be there, but i still think its a good idea to start fresh once in a while Mar 19 09:48
roguedevil the scene always changes Mar 19 09:48
thomasj I think not just root and tor, there are a few pron spammer in it as well as people just mention rm -rf / in #fedora Mar 19 09:49
EvilBob so keeping them in the ban list forever is... impractical Mar 19 09:49
nirik did we have tor problems in the past? Mar 19 09:49
Southern_Gentlem yes major Mar 19 09:49
*nirik doesn't recall... that must have been there for ages. Mar 19 09:49
EvilBob if they "do it again" it is not that big of a deal to ban again Mar 19 09:49
Southern_Gentlem we were asked to have that ban by freenode Mar 19 09:49
Southern_Gentlem nirik, aobut 3 years at this point i am thinking Mar 19 09:50
nirik oddly, the freenode web page faq asks not to ban tor. Mar 19 09:50
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Southern_Gentlem so lets wipe it all except zcat ban and root Mar 19 09:51
zcat nirik, you can still use tor, but there's an extra hoop to jump through Mar 19 09:51
nirik zcat ban? we banned zcat? :) Mar 19 09:51
zcat my one ban can be removed too. i added it after that ip was klined Mar 19 09:51
Southern_Gentlem no the ban that zcat has in the list that has happened since thomasj repopulated the list Mar 19 09:52
thomasj Plus boxxy or yxxob, plus domi09 they are still very new. Mar 19 09:52
roguedevil in case anyone missed the joke, thomasj blew away the whole banlist the other day during a ban attempt, then re-added them all again Mar 19 09:52
thomasj I hope now anyone knows who's the channel clown Mar 19 09:52
Southern_Gentlem roguedevil, it is easy to do, i have done it twice Mar 19 09:52
nirik I'm fine with wiping it... do we want to try and use the bot for bans with timeouts moving forward? then we don't need to do this later, we can just let the ban time out in a few months or whatever. Mar 19 09:52
roguedevil thomasj: i would have said screw it and left it blank :) Mar 19 09:53
Southern_Gentlem nirik, i think we look at the ban list once every release Mar 19 09:53
nirik on the other hand if we wipe them all once a quarter or something we can know to be ready that day for people coming back. Mar 19 09:53
roguedevil and they will come back, and may or may not end up in the banlist again Mar 19 09:53
zcat msg fedbot kbanDURATION username|mask reason Mar 19 09:53
nirik althought I am not sure if fedbot looses the ban expire info if it's restarted. That might be something to check. Mar 19 09:54
Southern_Gentlem motions we examine the ban list about the time beta is released Mar 19 09:54
roguedevil people just need to be sure to pay attention to their bans and remember to remove them Mar 19 09:54
zcat nirik, ah, right. i know it loses the scheduler announces on restarts. Mar 19 09:54
thomasj I think wipe it every 3 months like nirik mentioned is not bad. Mar 19 09:55
nirik Southern_Gentlem: that sounds good to me... Mar 19 09:55
nirik roguedevil: if they are short the bot is much easier to expire them... but yeah, for long ones make a note of it. ;) Mar 19 09:55
nirik +1 to examining the banlist around beta time each cycle... Mar 19 09:56
roguedevil i see no real reason for there to be so many bans except that forgotten ones piled up Mar 19 09:56
Southern_Gentlem +1 Mar 19 09:56
thomasj +1 Mar 19 09:56
zcat +1 Mar 19 09:57
Southern_Gentlem roguedevil, so if we have a scheduled time to look at them so much the better Mar 19 09:57
nirik ok, so for the banlist now... nuke all except tor/root? or those + some small # of recent ones? Mar 19 09:57
roguedevil sure Mar 19 09:58
roguedevil i cant wait to see who comes back Mar 19 09:58
*nirik looks at the list. Mar 19 09:58
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nirik ok, I guess we will see. Mar 19 09:59
Southern_Gentlem all but root seems to be the consences Mar 19 09:59
nirik shall we move on? or any more discussion here? Mar 19 09:59
nirik Southern_Gentlem: allowing tor again? Mar 19 10:00
Southern_Gentlem yep Mar 19 10:00
nirik or should we ask freenode about that? Mar 19 10:00
Southern_Gentlem allow until we have problems Mar 19 10:00
nirik ok, note the bottom of this page: http://freenode.net/policy.shtml has ban/quiet for tor gateways. Mar 19 10:00
zcat the tor ban won't keep out tor users if you jump through freenodes hoops: http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml#tor Mar 19 10:01
nirik yeah, I just wonder if it would be any more hassle than mibbit users, but I guess we will see. Mar 19 10:01
zcat using their 'hidden service' Mar 19 10:01
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG meeting - weekly stats Mar 19 10:02
nirik stats up here: http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html Mar 19 10:02
nirik pulseaudio keeps being a hot topic. Mar 19 10:03
nirik I have some feedback for fenrus02 on that page next I see him. Mar 19 10:03
nirik anyone have any thoughts on stats? Oh, if someone is interested in a project, I think it might be cool to have a mrtg/rrdtool graph of # of people in channel over time... Mar 19 10:04
nirik see how much spike we get at releases, etc... Mar 19 10:04
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Southern_Gentlem the record is 530 at the moment Mar 19 10:05
Southern_Gentlem i am suspecting 585 for f11 release Mar 19 10:05
nirik also be interesting to see if time of week or alpha/beta cause any changes. Mar 19 10:05
Southern_Gentlem mainly the week of looking for leaky mirrors Mar 19 10:05
thomasj yeah Mar 19 10:06
roguedevil a graph of actual user count over the years would be nice Mar 19 10:06
nirik yeah. I can try and make one, but not sure I will have time anytime soon... Mar 19 10:06
nirik ok, anything else on stats? Mar 19 10:07
Southern_Gentlem thomasj, how do you get those stats Mar 19 10:07
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thomasj Southern_Gentlem, i have a channel-peak.pl in irssi Mar 19 10:07
EvilBob thomasj: could you also count the number that spoke in a day? Mar 19 10:08
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EvilBob <1% LOL Mar 19 10:08
thomasj EvilBob, ugh, nah sorry. Mar 19 10:08
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nirik yeah, lots of lurkers always. Mar 19 10:09
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---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG meeting - Open Floor Mar 19 10:09
nirik any other topics/questions/announcements? Mar 19 10:09
EvilBob Sometimes I think it would be good just to clear the channel, close it for a few days Mar 19 10:09
thomasj EvilBob, well it could be counted with some grep, but not with that little perl thinggy Mar 19 10:09
EvilBob then see who comes back Mar 19 10:09
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EvilBob there is a great % that have NEVER spoken in the channel Mar 19 10:10
thomasj true Mar 19 10:10
nirik EvilBob: yeah. Makes you wonder why they are there... Mar 19 10:11
roguedevil lurkers are a constant Mar 19 10:11
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nirik ok, anything else for now? or shall we call this meeting done? Mar 19 10:12
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Southern_Gentlem shoo it Mar 19 10:12
nirik thanks for coming everyone! Mar 19 10:13
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---nirik has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule Mar 19 10:13

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