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People present (lines said):
People present (lines said):
# jlaska (106)
# wwoods (23)
# adamw (20)
# jskladan (20)
# kparal (13)
# Viking-Ice (6)
# jsmith (5)
# vaschenb (4)
# zodbot (3)
# satellit_ (2)
# topy (1)
# skvidal (1)


Unable to attend:
Unable to attend:
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== Previous meeting follow-up ==
== Previous meeting follow-up ==
# adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria
# adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria
: No updates, both jlaska and adamw have been busy
: Jlaska agreed to send this out to design-team@ for review this week
# adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images
# adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images
: Updates posted to wiki page, thanks Adam
# jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations
# jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations
: Adam was in the mood for wiki, thanks
# maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5
# maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5
: Ticket updated, but it was later determined that RC#5 was not required.


== F14 Alpha Status ==
== F14 Alpha Status ==
Line 24: Line 41:
; Next steps...
; Next steps...
: Raise awareness of F-14-Alpha known issue ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda
: Raise awareness of F-14-Alpha known issue ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda
: Propose and review bugs for http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs
:* jsmith asked the docs team to add an admonition to the top of the release notes
:* jsmith noted he would hilight this issue in the announcement mail as well
:* adamw was planning to ask the web group if they can put a one-liner with a link to release notes or common bugs on the download page
: Monitor incoming bugs and propose/draft content for for http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs


== AutoQA update ==
== AutoQA update ==
Line 30: Line 50:
; Owner - [[User:wwoods]]
; Owner - [[User:wwoods]]
; Summary
; Summary
: Wwoods and kparal discussed depcheck test cases -- {{Ticket|autoqa|202}}
: Jskladan improving ''how to write autoqa tests'' wiki page
: Upgrade path test posted by Vojta -- {{Ticket|autoqa|123}}
: Vojta posted upgrade-path test for review -- {{Ticket|autoqa|123}}
: Wwoods and kparal discussed depcheck test cases, and posted initial tests for feedback -- {{Ticket|autoqa|202}}
: Kparal noted that standardized hook argument patch set accepted ... multi-hook tests now possible
: Kparal posted patch to correct failing rpmguard tests
; Next steps...
; Next steps...
: Review Upgrade path test -- {{Ticket|autoqa|123}}
: Jlaska - apply and test kparal's koji_utils fix and report results
: Update [[Writing_AutoQA_Tests]] to match the recent changes (control.autoqa, using AutoQATest, hook args, etc.)
: Jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki
: Complete review of upgrade-path test -- {{Ticket|autoqa|123}}
: Jskladan to post updated [[Writing_AutoQA_Tests]] to match the recent changes (control.autoqa, using AutoQATest, hook args, etc.)
: Complete depcheck test cases -- {{Ticket|autoqa|202}}
: Complete depcheck test cases -- {{Ticket|autoqa|202}}
: More depcheck activities (see [https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=Package+Update+Acceptance+Test+Plan+-+depcheck roadmap])
: Jskladan and Wwoods to collaborate on mash support
: Kparal and Wwoods to collaborate on depcheck unittest framework and remaining tests


= Open discussion - <Your topic here> =
= Open discussion - <Your topic here> =
Line 55: Line 81:


= Action items =
= Action items =
# jlaska to publish F-14-Alpha QA retrospective page
# ''(autoqa)'' jlaska apply and provide results against autoqa patch (https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html)
# ''(autoqa)''  jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki
= IRC Transcript =
{|
|- id="t15:00:24"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
|| [[#t15:00:24|15:00]]
|- id="t15:00:24"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | zodbot
| style="color: #42427e" | Meeting started Mon Aug 23 15:00:24 2010 UTC.  The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
|| [[#t15:00:24|15:00]]
|- id="t15:00:24"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | zodbot
| style="color: #42427e" | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
|| [[#t15:00:24|15:00]]
|- id="t15:01:07"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic Gathering ....
|| [[#t15:01:07|15:01]]
|- id="t15:01:12"
| colspan="2" | * kparal available for the next 45 minutes
|| [[#t15:01:12|15:01]]
|- id="t15:01:13"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #meetingname fedora-qa
|| [[#t15:01:13|15:01]]
|- id="t15:01:13"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | zodbot
| style="color: #42427e" | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
|| [[#t15:01:13|15:01]]
|- id="t15:01:17"
| colspan="2" | * vaschenb
|| [[#t15:01:17|15:01]]
|- id="t15:01:42"
| colspan="2" | * jsmith is here
|| [[#t15:01:42|15:01]]
|- id="t15:02:05"
| colspan="2" | * wwoods here
|| [[#t15:02:05|15:02]]
|- id="t15:02:28"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | yo
|| [[#t15:02:28|15:02]]
|- id="t15:02:56"
| colspan="2" | * Viking-Ice here
|| [[#t15:02:56|15:02]]
|- id="t15:04:41"
| colspan="2" | * jlaska figures joza is lurking
|| [[#t15:04:41|15:04]]
|- id="t15:04:59"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | alright ... let's get started so we can have kparal here for autoqa time
|| [[#t15:04:59|15:04]]
|- id="t15:05:06"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic Previous meeting follow-up
|| [[#t15:05:06|15:05]]
|- id="t15:05:47"
| colspan="2" | * jskladan lurks
|| [[#t15:05:47|15:05]]
|- id="t15:05:54"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | jskladan hey there lurker!
|| [[#t15:05:54|15:05]]
|- id="t15:06:03"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images
|| [[#t15:06:03|15:06]]
|- id="t15:06:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | looks like this got some recent edits
|| [[#t15:06:27|15:06]]
|- id="t15:06:39"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | yeah, it should be right now.
|| [[#t15:06:39|15:06]]
|- id="t15:07:00"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | thanks adamw,  I see the live qualifications ... looks good
|| [[#t15:07:00|15:07]]
|- id="t15:07:18"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations
|| [[#t15:07:18|15:07]]
|- id="t15:07:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | I believe this is complete ... and not because of me
|| [[#t15:07:27|15:07]]
|- id="t15:07:30"
| colspan="2" | * adamw did that too
|| [[#t15:07:30|15:07]]
|- id="t15:07:33"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | adamw was a wiki editing machine last week
|| [[#t15:07:33|15:07]]
|- id="t15:08:17"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5
|| [[#t15:08:17|15:08]]
|- id="t15:08:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | maxa completed this ... but turned out we had a course correction and RC#5 wasn't required
|| [[#t15:08:38|15:08]]
|- id="t15:08:51"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria
|| [[#t15:08:51|15:08]]
|- id="t15:09:07"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | man, we suck
|| [[#t15:09:07|15:09]]
|- id="t15:09:19"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | a classic ... adamw, my name has been on that one, but I haven't touched it.  Do you want me to reach out to design-team for thoughts?
|| [[#t15:09:19|15:09]]
|- id="t15:09:30"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | if you could that'd be great
|| [[#t15:09:30|15:09]]
|- id="t15:09:36"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | or if you're busy i can do it
|| [[#t15:09:36|15:09]]
|- id="t15:09:40"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | either way
|| [[#t15:09:40|15:09]]
|- id="t15:09:52"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | alright, I'll fire that off this week
|| [[#t15:09:52|15:09]]
|- id="t15:10:07"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | that's all I had from last week ... let's dive into the agenda
|| [[#t15:10:07|15:10]]
|- id="t15:10:24"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic F14 Alpha QA Status
|| [[#t15:10:24|15:10]]
|- id="t15:10:41"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | well, first off ... congrats everyone
|| [[#t15:10:41|15:10]]
|- id="t15:10:51"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | yet another Fedora release milestone behind us
|| [[#t15:10:51|15:10]]
|- id="t15:10:55"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | *party poppers*
|| [[#t15:10:55|15:10]]
|- id="t15:10:56"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | they just keep on coming, don't they
|| [[#t15:10:56|15:10]]
|- id="t15:11:40"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | *enjoys*
|| [[#t15:11:40|15:11]]
|- id="t15:11:48"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | adamw: I know you wanted to raise awareness on the radeon issue ... was there anything you wanted to discuss there?
|| [[#t15:11:48|15:11]]
|- id="t15:12:28"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | jlaska: yeah, i'm a bit uneasy on that, i was assuming we'd have the readiness meeting to do it, but apparently we didn't schedule another readiness meeting even though the release was delayed (seems odd to me)
|| [[#t15:12:28|15:12]]
|- id="t15:12:41"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | so i'll have to contact docs and websites teams directly, i haven't done  that yet, i'll do it today
|| [[#t15:12:41|15:12]]
|- id="t15:13:06"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | jsmith: anything you can think of to help elevate the visibility of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda
|| [[#t15:13:06|15:13]]
|- id="t15:15:00"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info adamw wants to raise awareness of known radeon display issue (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda)
|| [[#t15:15:00|15:15]]
|- id="t15:15:26"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | have folks been testing with F-14-Alpha + updates-testing?
|| [[#t15:15:26|15:15]]
|- id="t15:15:36"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | that's what I'm running
|| [[#t15:15:36|15:15]]
|- id="t15:16:03"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | it was only an improvement for me after the update ... that was good news
|| [[#t15:16:03|15:16]]
|- id="t15:16:54"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | adamw: CommonBugs looks in good shape ... anything else on your radar to close out F-14-Alpha for QA?
|| [[#t15:16:54|15:16]]
|- id="t15:16:58"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | me too
|| [[#t15:16:58|15:16]]
|- id="t15:16:58"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | it's slightly rough with all the gnome changes
|| [[#t15:16:58|15:16]]
|- id="t15:17:02"
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | jsmith
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | jlaska: I've asked the Docs folks to add an admonition to the one-page release notes for F14 Alpha
|| [[#t15:17:02|15:17]]
|- id="t15:17:37"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | jsmith: ah nice, thank you
|| [[#t15:17:37|15:17]]
|- id="t15:17:40"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | jsmith: awesome, thanks
|| [[#t15:17:40|15:17]]
|- id="t15:18:01"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | jsmith: i'm planning on asking the web group if they can put a one-liner with a link to release notes or common bugs on the download page
|| [[#t15:18:01|15:18]]
|- id="t15:18:02"
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | jsmith
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I think we'll also highlight it in the announcement email
|| [[#t15:18:02|15:18]]
|- id="t15:19:22"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | both good ideas
|| [[#t15:19:22|15:19]]
|- id="t15:19:47"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | no need to self-flagellate, just a quick mention with a link is fine
|| [[#t15:19:47|15:19]]
|- id="t15:20:04"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | adamw: I created an F14 QA retrospective wiki stub last week ... but I'll clean that up a bit and send that out so we can start collecting the good/bad/ugly
|| [[#t15:20:04|15:20]]
|- id="t15:20:31"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #action jlaska to publish F-14-Alpha QA retrospective page
|| [[#t15:20:31|15:20]]
|- id="t15:22:11"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | in case it wasn't clear ... *huge* thanks again to all who contributed testing, especially the fast turn around on RC#4.  While we did end up slipping for another issue, it was very helpful to have a sense for how the installer and desktop test matrices held up to the alpha release criteria
|| [[#t15:22:11|15:22]]
|- id="t15:22:35"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | adamw: any other Alpha topics/thoughts (or Jerry Springer final thoughts)?
|| [[#t15:22:35|15:22]]
|- id="t15:23:10"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | of course, what this has all showed is that the really important thing is family...
|| [[#t15:23:10|15:23]]
|- id="t15:23:20"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | LOL!
|| [[#t15:23:20|15:23]]
|- id="t15:23:24"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | er, nope. :)
|| [[#t15:23:24|15:23]]
|- id="t15:23:48"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | alrighty ... well done
|| [[#t15:23:48|15:23]]
|- id="t15:24:19"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | alright ... do you hear the music?
|| [[#t15:24:19|15:24]]
|- id="t15:24:26"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | that's not Duff man ... it's AutoQA time
|| [[#t15:24:26|15:24]]
|- id="t15:24:36"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic AutoQA Package Acceptance
|| [[#t15:24:36|15:24]]
|- id="t15:25:38"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | well, no funky updates from me - i've been testing F14 a bit, and focused mostly on the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki
|| [[#t15:25:38|15:25]]
|- id="t15:25:41"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | I know F-14 pulled away some time+energy from some autoqa work, but it appears there was some progress last week
|| [[#t15:25:41|15:25]]
|- id="t15:26:45"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | my patch that standardized some hook args was accepted, so it created better options for multihook tests
|| [[#t15:26:45|15:26]]
|- id="t15:27:07"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | jskladan: awesome, I can't wait to see the updated wiki page ... so much has changed with some of the recent patch sets
|| [[#t15:27:07|15:27]]
|- id="t15:27:23"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | standardized hook args being one of the big ones!
|| [[#t15:27:23|15:27]]
|- id="t15:27:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | how's the multi-hook milestone looking?
|| [[#t15:27:38|15:27]]
|- id="t15:27:39"
| colspan="2" | * jlaska checks
|| [[#t15:27:39|15:27]]
|- id="t15:27:48"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | and control.autoqa, and new stuff in control files and test wrappers
|| [[#t15:27:48|15:27]]
|- id="t15:28:18"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | down to only 1 ticket in the multi-host milestone ... that's great
|| [[#t15:28:18|15:28]]
|- id="t15:28:19"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/203
|| [[#t15:28:19|15:28]]
|- id="t15:28:23"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | multi-hook milestone is almost finished, now only to schedule tests for multiple hooks, which should be piece of cake. the framework is ready
|| [[#t15:28:23|15:28]]
|- id="t15:30:01"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | vaschenb: have you had a chance to look at those multi-hook tests kparal mentioned?  Does that seem do-able with the time remaining?
|| [[#t15:30:01|15:30]]
|- id="t15:31:00"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | vaschenb: I'm sure multi-hook guru kparal can help answer any questions too :)
|| [[#t15:31:00|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:12"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | wwoods: how's the depcheck front progressing?
|| [[#t15:31:12|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:15"
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | vaschenb
| style="color: #4d4d93" | jlaska: not yet, today I worked on upgradepath output...
|| [[#t15:31:15|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:35"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | I requested some upgradepath output format improvement at vaschenb :)
|| [[#t15:31:35|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:37"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | jlaska: we've got some new unittests in depcheck that actually, like, prove that depchecking works as expected
|| [[#t15:31:37|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:58"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | at least partially
|| [[#t15:31:58|15:31]]
|- id="t15:32:04"
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | vaschenb
| style="color: #4d4d93" | jlaska: I'll take a look at it, but today I'm functionless
|| [[#t15:32:04|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:18"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | wwoods: Bonus points for using built-in python unittest module!  That's really cool looking stuff
|| [[#t15:32:18|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:22"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | I split it up into a module and a CLI so we can keep the tool and the tests in different files.. little cleaner that way
|| [[#t15:32:22|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:43"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | so the next thing to do is to start using mash instead of createrepo
|| [[#t15:32:43|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:55"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | so we can actually handle multilib stuff properly
|| [[#t15:32:55|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:58"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info jskladan improving 'how to write autoqa tests' wiki page
|| [[#t15:32:58|15:32]]
|- id="t15:33:00"
| colspan="2" | * jlaska info's
|| [[#t15:33:00|15:33]]
|- id="t15:33:18"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info kparal standardized hook argument patch set accepted ... multi-hook tests now possible
|| [[#t15:33:18|15:33]]
|- id="t15:33:36"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info vaschenb improving upgrade-path test output
|| [[#t15:33:36|15:33]]
|- id="t15:34:01"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info wwoods posted info about depcheck unit test framework
|| [[#t15:34:01|15:34]]
|- id="t15:34:50"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | mostly last week was about cleaning things up - f14a kind of took priority
|| [[#t15:34:50|15:34]]
|- id="t15:35:24"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | yeah ... these darn milestones!
|| [[#t15:35:24|15:35]]
|- id="t15:35:43"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info wwoods posted thoughts on depcheck next steps -- https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001010.html
|| [[#t15:35:43|15:35]]
|- id="t15:36:35"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | wwoods: you get any lucky volunteers for the mash work yet?
|| [[#t15:36:35|15:36]]
|- id="t15:36:47"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | jlaska: unfortunately I think I volunteered myself
|| [[#t15:36:47|15:36]]
|- id="t15:36:59"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | did everyone step back (but you)?
|| [[#t15:36:59|15:36]]
|- id="t15:37:12"
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | jsmith
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | jlaska: I think that's closer to the truth
|| [[#t15:37:12|15:37]]
|- id="t15:37:20"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | doh!
|| [[#t15:37:20|15:37]]
|- id="t15:37:35"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | wwoods: i said i'll dig into that
|| [[#t15:37:35|15:37]]
|- id="t15:37:44"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | maybe not too loud :)
|| [[#t15:37:44|15:37]]
|- id="t15:37:56"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | hehe
|| [[#t15:37:56|15:37]]
|- id="t15:38:07"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | jskladan: heh! maybe so. That'd be great
|| [[#t15:38:07|15:38]]
|- id="t15:38:28"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | yeah, +1 on the thanks jskladan
|| [[#t15:38:28|15:38]]
|- id="t15:38:38"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | wwoods: yeah, no problem at all. I'll have it on my radar, once i finish the wiki edit
|| [[#t15:38:38|15:38]]
|- id="t15:38:41"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | I'll try to help round up some info from the mash 'experts'
|| [[#t15:38:41|15:38]]
|- id="t15:38:52"
! style="background-color: #97974f" | skvidal
| style="color: #97974f" | s/mash experts/notting/
|| [[#t15:38:52|15:38]]
|- id="t15:39:09"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | there were 2 other non-depcheck items that I was aware of ... kparal do you want to talk about your latest patch to the list?
|| [[#t15:39:09|15:39]]
|- id="t15:39:10"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | mash seems to be one of those things where nobody fully understands it, so anyone who touches it immediately becomes a new 'expert'
|| [[#t15:39:10|15:39]]
|- id="t15:39:46"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | ah, yes. well
|| [[#t15:39:46|15:39]]
|- id="t15:40:05"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | this patch: https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html
|| [[#t15:40:05|15:40]]
|- id="t15:40:26"
| colspan="2" | * jskladan looking forward to be the so called expert on yet another fancy field :)
|| [[#t15:40:26|15:40]]
|- id="t15:40:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info some rpmguard tests failing, see kparal's proposed patch https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html
|| [[#t15:40:38|15:40]]
|- id="t15:41:21"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | I think the code was wrong all the time. we requested the last release of a certain package, but we didn't check the provided repo, just its parents
|| [[#t15:41:21|15:41]]
|- id="t15:41:38"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | which I didn't really understood and I believe it was wrong, until someone proves me otherwise :)
|| [[#t15:41:38|15:41]]
|- id="t15:42:12"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | very possible
|| [[#t15:42:12|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:14"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | so I have rewritten it to a behaviour I suppose it's correct, and by the way it also fixed the traceback we received before
|| [[#t15:42:14|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:26"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | should I just apply this patch to our current instance?
|| [[#t15:42:26|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:38"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | jlaska: I believe it should work (better than before)
|| [[#t15:42:38|15:42]]
|- id="t15:43:10"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | kparal: okay, I'll apply and respond with results
|| [[#t15:43:10|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:25"
! style="background-color: #854685" | kparal
| style="color: #854685" | jlaska: yes please
|| [[#t15:43:25|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:29"
| colspan="2" | * kparal has to run, sorry
|| [[#t15:43:29|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:30"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #action jlaska apply and provide results against autoqa patch (https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html)
|| [[#t15:43:30|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:34"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | kparal: cya
|| [[#t15:43:34|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:47"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | the other non-depcheck issue was vaschenb upgrade-path test
|| [[#t15:43:47|15:43]]
|- id="t15:44:16"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | I commented that I thought we'd probably want a method of running this test outside of the test harness (for folks who play the autoqa home-game)
|| [[#t15:44:16|15:44]]
|- id="t15:44:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | but then kparal and vaschenb pointed out that you can run the tests locally using a method I wasn't aware of
|| [[#t15:44:39|15:44]]
|- id="t15:44:49"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | just using 'autoqa post-bodhi-update --local ...'
|| [[#t15:44:49|15:44]]
|- id="t15:44:50"
| colspan="2" | * jskladan likes (and heavily uses) the --local)
|| [[#t15:44:50|15:44]]
|- id="t15:45:08"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | wwoods: did you have any thoughts on that approach vs a stand-alone script?
|| [[#t15:45:08|15:45]]
|- id="t15:46:20"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | either way seems fine to me
|| [[#t15:46:20|15:46]]
|- id="t15:46:30"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | I really like the stand-alone version, but then that means we have to write multiple option parsers etc...
|| [[#t15:46:30|15:46]]
|- id="t15:47:07"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | I don't often install 'autoqa' when testing out of git ... so I'm not familiar with this method
|| [[#t15:47:07|15:47]]
|- id="t15:47:33"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | I guess I just want to make sure we recognize that writing a test this way is not the most obvious (or simplest) path for general audiences
|| [[#t15:47:33|15:47]]
|- id="t15:47:52"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | as long as we document how to run the test somewhere, right?
|| [[#t15:47:52|15:47]]
|- id="t15:48:08"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | if you're skilled at hacking around in autoqa already then yeah, this totally works and saves you having to write option parsers etc.
|| [[#t15:48:08|15:48]]
|- id="t15:48:46"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | but for people who are like "hey I want to write a test, how does autoqa work" I'm still going to suggest "Write the test first, you don't need to know the full details of how autoqa works until you have a working test"
|| [[#t15:48:46|15:48]]
|- id="t15:48:57"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | well, my opinion is also a bit torn between these two options - having the test as "standalone" is absolutely superb for non-autoqa geeks
|| [[#t15:48:57|15:48]]
|- id="t15:49:15"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | but some tests can benefit a big time from the autoqa libs
|| [[#t15:49:15|15:49]]
|- id="t15:49:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | jskladan: you can still use autoqa libs for the stand-alone test
|| [[#t15:49:27|15:49]]
|- id="t15:49:31"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | just not autotest libs
|| [[#t15:49:31|15:49]]
|- id="t15:49:59"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | well, if you "make install" the autoqa, that is
|| [[#t15:49:59|15:49]]
|- id="t15:50:05"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | in short: I'm happy with both methods, but that means we need to support two ways of writing tests
|| [[#t15:50:05|15:50]]
|- id="t15:50:18"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | at least, that was my understanding of 'stand-alone'  ... but this topic pointed out that the definition of 'stand-alone' was a bit vague
|| [[#t15:50:18|15:50]]
|- id="t15:50:23"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | one for autoqa hackers only, and one that's for everyone
|| [[#t15:50:23|15:50]]
|- id="t15:50:49"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | i do like the --local, because i do not have to provide a arg parser for my script
|| [[#t15:50:49|15:50]]
|- id="t15:50:56"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | (because autoqa parses it for me)
|| [[#t15:50:56|15:50]]
|- id="t15:51:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | that's nice
|| [[#t15:51:02|15:51]]
|- id="t15:51:24"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | but i sure do understand the stand-alone benefits
|| [[#t15:51:24|15:51]]
|- id="t15:51:49"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | and i totally agree with will on "write the test first" for non-autoqa-hackers
|| [[#t15:51:49|15:51]]
|- id="t15:52:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | so it doesn't seem there is a _wrong_ way to do this ... and this can be left as an exercise for the author?
|| [[#t15:52:02|15:52]]
|- id="t15:52:34"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | so yeah I think we're agreed here: non-standalone tests are totally acceptable - and really handy for proficient autoqa hackers
|| [[#t15:52:34|15:52]]
|- id="t15:53:07"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #info in response to Vojta's upgrade-path patch, the group agreed that non-standalone tests are totally acceptable - and really handy for proficient autoqa hackers
|| [[#t15:53:07|15:53]]
|- id="t15:53:12"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | i belive, that we can all agree, that we should document (and highlight) the --local option
|| [[#t15:53:12|15:53]]
|- id="t15:53:29"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | so the non-hackers are able to run current tests
|| [[#t15:53:29|15:53]]
|- id="t15:53:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | more docs!
|| [[#t15:53:39|15:53]]
|- id="t15:53:45"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | (maybe a note on the "how to write tests"?)
|| [[#t15:53:45|15:53]]
|- id="t15:53:55"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | yeah, definitely!
|| [[#t15:53:55|15:53]]
|- id="t15:53:58"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | jlaska: docs rock the world :)
|| [[#t15:53:58|15:53]]
|- id="t15:54:12"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | jskladan: :D
|| [[#t15:54:12|15:54]]
|- id="t15:54:33"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | alrighty ... anything other autoqa topics?
|| [[#t15:54:33|15:54]]
|- id="t15:54:40"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | so, i'll add a "how to run the test" note to the wiki page
|| [[#t15:54:40|15:54]]
|- id="t15:54:57"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | jskladan: feel free to queue up a ticket for future consumption
|| [[#t15:54:57|15:54]]
|- id="t15:55:16"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | this is one that even I can probably help with ... esp since I'd like to learn this method
|| [[#t15:55:16|15:55]]
|- id="t15:55:17"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | jskladan
| style="color: #4b904b" | #action jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki
|| [[#t15:55:17|15:55]]
|- id="t15:55:33"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | vaschenb: wwoods: anything else from you guys?
|| [[#t15:55:33|15:55]]
|- id="t15:55:43"
! style="background-color: #488888" | wwoods
| style="color: #488888" | nope, I'm good
|| [[#t15:55:43|15:55]]
|- id="t15:55:48"
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | vaschenb
| style="color: #4d4d93" | jlaska: nothing
|| [[#t15:55:48|15:55]]
|- id="t15:56:15"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | alright, thanks folks ... love seeing the patch review and test progress on autoqa-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org
|| [[#t15:56:15|15:56]]
|- id="t15:56:25"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | great to see things moving forward
|| [[#t15:56:25|15:56]]
|- id="t15:56:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | Okay ... it's that time again ...
|| [[#t15:56:38|15:56]]
|- id="t15:56:48"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic Open Discussion - &lt;your topic here&gt;
|| [[#t15:56:48|15:56]]
|- id="t15:57:06"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | anything to discuss/review/debate that we haven't already touched on?
|| [[#t15:57:06|15:57]]
|- id="t15:57:52"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | if nothing raised, I'll close out the meeting in 2 minutes
|| [[#t15:57:52|15:57]]
|- id="t15:58:28"
| colspan="2" | * adamw has nothing
|| [[#t15:58:28|15:58]]
|- id="t15:58:38"
! style="background-color: #9b519b" | topy
| style="color: #9b519b" | I search technical documentation about architectural of fedora cluster (redhat), but I don't find nothing of interesting. Can someone drive me to some useful links ?
|| [[#t15:58:38|15:58]]
|- id="t15:59:04"
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | jsmith
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | topy: Please don't interrupt the meeting to ask a non-related question
|| [[#t15:59:04|15:59]]
|- id="t15:59:30"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | Closing out in 30 seconds ...
|| [[#t15:59:30|15:59]]
|- id="t15:59:46"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | Viking-Ice
| style="color: #539e9e" | jlaska: I wanted to ask if it has been considered to the nightly composes actually would use updates-testing or special koji repo for their compose..
|| [[#t15:59:46|15:59]]
|- id="t16:00:12"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | Viking-Ice
| style="color: #539e9e" | so testers would get the latest bits instead of some outdated ones
|| [[#t16:00:12|16:00]]
|- id="t16:00:14"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice: I believe we talked about that at a previous meeting ... kparal raised that topic in your absence
|| [[#t16:00:14|16:00]]
|- id="t16:00:20"
| colspan="2" | * jlaska finds
|| [[#t16:00:20|16:00]]
|- id="t16:00:23"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | Viking-Ice
| style="color: #539e9e" | Oh I see
|| [[#t16:00:23|16:00]]
|- id="t16:00:54"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20100816#Nightly_live_composes
|| [[#t16:00:54|16:00]]
|- id="t16:01:29"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice: you might want to add your point to the QA retrospective once I post the link ...
|| [[#t16:01:29|16:01]]
|- id="t16:01:55"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | note, not captured in the summary there, nirik's explanation:
|| [[#t16:01:55|16:01]]
|- id="t16:01:57"
! style="background-color: #818144" | adamw
| style="color: #818144" | " the idea was that we should be testing the thing that we would ship."
|| [[#t16:01:57|16:01]]
|- id="t16:02:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | it would be a nice addition to the current live image process, but I don't think I'd want it to *replace* the live images used now
|| [[#t16:02:02|16:02]]
|- id="t16:02:11"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | adamw: thanks
|| [[#t16:02:11|16:02]]
|- id="t16:02:15"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | Viking-Ice
| style="color: #539e9e" | we got alpha beta etc images for that
|| [[#t16:02:15|16:02]]
|- id="t16:02:55"
! style="background-color: #a25555" | satellit_
| style="color: #a25555" | Are the nightly composes working? last one for soas seems to be the 18th
|| [[#t16:02:55|16:02]]
|- id="t16:03:50"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | Viking-Ice
| style="color: #539e9e" | satellit_: offtopic ask in QA
|| [[#t16:03:50|16:03]]
|- id="t16:03:55"
! style="background-color: #a25555" | satellit_
| style="color: #a25555" | ok
|| [[#t16:03:55|16:03]]
|- id="t16:04:01"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | satellit_: they appear to have failed ... we can follow-up with nirik in #fedora-qa
|| [[#t16:04:01|16:04]]
|- id="t16:04:14"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | alright folks ... thanks for your time
|| [[#t16:04:14|16:04]]
|- id="t16:04:25"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | I'll send minutes to the list
|| [[#t16:04:25|16:04]]
|- id="t16:04:29"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | jlaska
| style="color: #407a40" | #endmeeting
|| [[#t16:04:29|16:04]]
|}
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Latest revision as of 20:04, 23 August 2010

Attendees

People present (lines said):

  1. jlaska (106)
  2. wwoods (23)
  3. adamw (20)
  4. jskladan (20)
  5. kparal (13)
  6. Viking-Ice (6)
  7. jsmith (5)
  8. vaschenb (4)
  9. zodbot (3)
  10. satellit_ (2)
  11. topy (1)
  12. skvidal (1)

Unable to attend:

  1. Liam
  2. Rhe
  3. Newgle1

Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  1. adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria
No updates, both jlaska and adamw have been busy
Jlaska agreed to send this out to design-team@ for review this week
  1. adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images
Updates posted to wiki page, thanks Adam
  1. jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations
Adam was in the mood for wiki, thanks
  1. maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5
Ticket updated, but it was later determined that RC#5 was not required.

F14 Alpha Status

Owner - rhe, adamwill
Summary
F-14 Alpha RC#4 compose CD and DVD images accepted as F-14-Alpha (see http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-08-19/fedora-meeting.2010-08-19-00.00.html)
Next steps...
Raise awareness of F-14-Alpha known issue ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda
  • jsmith asked the docs team to add an admonition to the top of the release notes
  • jsmith noted he would hilight this issue in the announcement mail as well
  • adamw was planning to ask the web group if they can put a one-liner with a link to release notes or common bugs on the download page
Monitor incoming bugs and propose/draft content for for http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs

AutoQA update

Owner - User:wwoods
Summary
Jskladan improving how to write autoqa tests wiki page
Vojta posted upgrade-path test for review -- autoqa ticket#123
Wwoods and kparal discussed depcheck test cases, and posted initial tests for feedback -- autoqa ticket#202
Kparal noted that standardized hook argument patch set accepted ... multi-hook tests now possible
Kparal posted patch to correct failing rpmguard tests
Next steps...
Jlaska - apply and test kparal's koji_utils fix and report results
Jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki
Complete review of upgrade-path test -- autoqa ticket#123
Jskladan to post updated Writing_AutoQA_Tests to match the recent changes (control.autoqa, using AutoQATest, hook args, etc.)
Complete depcheck test cases -- autoqa ticket#202
Jskladan and Wwoods to collaborate on mash support
Kparal and Wwoods to collaborate on depcheck unittest framework and remaining tests

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Upcoming QA events

Action items

  1. jlaska to publish F-14-Alpha QA retrospective page
  2. (autoqa) jlaska apply and provide results against autoqa patch (https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html)
  3. (autoqa) jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki

IRC Transcript

jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 15:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Aug 23 15:00:24 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
jlaska #topic Gathering .... 15:01
* kparal available for the next 45 minutes 15:01
jlaska #meetingname fedora-qa 15:01
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:01
* vaschenb 15:01
* jsmith is here 15:01
* wwoods here 15:02
adamw yo 15:02
* Viking-Ice here 15:02
* jlaska figures joza is lurking 15:04
jlaska alright ... let's get started so we can have kparal here for autoqa time 15:04
jlaska #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:05
* jskladan lurks 15:05
jlaska jskladan hey there lurker! 15:05
jlaska #info adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images 15:06
jlaska looks like this got some recent edits 15:06
adamw yeah, it should be right now. 15:06
jlaska thanks adamw, I see the live qualifications ... looks good 15:07
jlaska #info jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations 15:07
jlaska I believe this is complete ... and not because of me 15:07
* adamw did that too 15:07
jlaska adamw was a wiki editing machine last week 15:07
jlaska #info maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5 15:08
jlaska maxa completed this ... but turned out we had a course correction and RC#5 wasn't required 15:08
jlaska #info adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria 15:08
adamw man, we suck 15:09
jlaska a classic ... adamw, my name has been on that one, but I haven't touched it. Do you want me to reach out to design-team for thoughts? 15:09
adamw if you could that'd be great 15:09
adamw or if you're busy i can do it 15:09
adamw either way 15:09
jlaska alright, I'll fire that off this week 15:09
jlaska that's all I had from last week ... let's dive into the agenda 15:10
jlaska #topic F14 Alpha QA Status 15:10
jlaska well, first off ... congrats everyone 15:10
jlaska yet another Fedora release milestone behind us 15:10
adamw *party poppers* 15:10
jlaska they just keep on coming, don't they 15:10
kparal *enjoys* 15:11
jlaska adamw: I know you wanted to raise awareness on the radeon issue ... was there anything you wanted to discuss there? 15:11
adamw jlaska: yeah, i'm a bit uneasy on that, i was assuming we'd have the readiness meeting to do it, but apparently we didn't schedule another readiness meeting even though the release was delayed (seems odd to me) 15:12
adamw so i'll have to contact docs and websites teams directly, i haven't done that yet, i'll do it today 15:12
jlaska jsmith: anything you can think of to help elevate the visibility of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda 15:13
jlaska #info adamw wants to raise awareness of known radeon display issue (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda) 15:15
jlaska have folks been testing with F-14-Alpha + updates-testing? 15:15
wwoods that's what I'm running 15:15
jlaska it was only an improvement for me after the update ... that was good news 15:16
jlaska adamw: CommonBugs looks in good shape ... anything else on your radar to close out F-14-Alpha for QA? 15:16
adamw me too 15:16
adamw it's slightly rough with all the gnome changes 15:16
jsmith jlaska: I've asked the Docs folks to add an admonition to the one-page release notes for F14 Alpha 15:17
jlaska jsmith: ah nice, thank you 15:17
adamw jsmith: awesome, thanks 15:17
adamw jsmith: i'm planning on asking the web group if they can put a one-liner with a link to release notes or common bugs on the download page 15:18
jsmith I think we'll also highlight it in the announcement email 15:18
jlaska both good ideas 15:19
adamw no need to self-flagellate, just a quick mention with a link is fine 15:19
jlaska adamw: I created an F14 QA retrospective wiki stub last week ... but I'll clean that up a bit and send that out so we can start collecting the good/bad/ugly 15:20
jlaska #action jlaska to publish F-14-Alpha QA retrospective page 15:20
jlaska in case it wasn't clear ... *huge* thanks again to all who contributed testing, especially the fast turn around on RC#4. While we did end up slipping for another issue, it was very helpful to have a sense for how the installer and desktop test matrices held up to the alpha release criteria 15:22
jlaska adamw: any other Alpha topics/thoughts (or Jerry Springer final thoughts)? 15:22
adamw of course, what this has all showed is that the really important thing is family... 15:23
jlaska LOL! 15:23
adamw er, nope. :) 15:23
jlaska alrighty ... well done 15:23
jlaska alright ... do you hear the music? 15:24
jlaska that's not Duff man ... it's AutoQA time 15:24
jlaska #topic AutoQA Package Acceptance 15:24
jskladan well, no funky updates from me - i've been testing F14 a bit, and focused mostly on the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki 15:25
jlaska I know F-14 pulled away some time+energy from some autoqa work, but it appears there was some progress last week 15:25
kparal my patch that standardized some hook args was accepted, so it created better options for multihook tests 15:26
jlaska jskladan: awesome, I can't wait to see the updated wiki page ... so much has changed with some of the recent patch sets 15:27
jlaska standardized hook args being one of the big ones! 15:27
jlaska how's the multi-hook milestone looking? 15:27
* jlaska checks 15:27
wwoods and control.autoqa, and new stuff in control files and test wrappers 15:27
jlaska down to only 1 ticket in the multi-host milestone ... that's great 15:28
jlaska https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/203 15:28
kparal multi-hook milestone is almost finished, now only to schedule tests for multiple hooks, which should be piece of cake. the framework is ready 15:28
jlaska vaschenb: have you had a chance to look at those multi-hook tests kparal mentioned? Does that seem do-able with the time remaining? 15:30
jlaska vaschenb: I'm sure multi-hook guru kparal can help answer any questions too :) 15:31
jlaska wwoods: how's the depcheck front progressing? 15:31
vaschenb jlaska: not yet, today I worked on upgradepath output... 15:31
kparal I requested some upgradepath output format improvement at vaschenb :) 15:31
wwoods jlaska: we've got some new unittests in depcheck that actually, like, prove that depchecking works as expected 15:31
wwoods at least partially 15:31
vaschenb jlaska: I'll take a look at it, but today I'm functionless 15:32
jlaska wwoods: Bonus points for using built-in python unittest module! That's really cool looking stuff 15:32
wwoods I split it up into a module and a CLI so we can keep the tool and the tests in different files.. little cleaner that way 15:32
wwoods so the next thing to do is to start using mash instead of createrepo 15:32
wwoods so we can actually handle multilib stuff properly 15:32
jlaska #info jskladan improving 'how to write autoqa tests' wiki page 15:32
* jlaska info's 15:33
jlaska #info kparal standardized hook argument patch set accepted ... multi-hook tests now possible 15:33
jlaska #info vaschenb improving upgrade-path test output 15:33
jlaska #info wwoods posted info about depcheck unit test framework 15:34
wwoods mostly last week was about cleaning things up - f14a kind of took priority 15:34
jlaska yeah ... these darn milestones! 15:35
jlaska #info wwoods posted thoughts on depcheck next steps -- https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001010.html 15:35
jlaska wwoods: you get any lucky volunteers for the mash work yet? 15:36
wwoods jlaska: unfortunately I think I volunteered myself 15:36
jlaska did everyone step back (but you)? 15:36
jsmith jlaska: I think that's closer to the truth 15:37
jlaska doh! 15:37
jskladan wwoods: i said i'll dig into that 15:37
jskladan maybe not too loud :) 15:37
jlaska hehe 15:37
wwoods jskladan: heh! maybe so. That'd be great 15:38
jlaska yeah, +1 on the thanks jskladan 15:38
jskladan wwoods: yeah, no problem at all. I'll have it on my radar, once i finish the wiki edit 15:38
wwoods I'll try to help round up some info from the mash 'experts' 15:38
skvidal s/mash experts/notting/ 15:38
jlaska there were 2 other non-depcheck items that I was aware of ... kparal do you want to talk about your latest patch to the list? 15:39
wwoods mash seems to be one of those things where nobody fully understands it, so anyone who touches it immediately becomes a new 'expert' 15:39
kparal ah, yes. well 15:39
kparal this patch: https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html 15:40
* jskladan looking forward to be the so called expert on yet another fancy field :) 15:40
jlaska #info some rpmguard tests failing, see kparal's proposed patch https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html 15:40
kparal I think the code was wrong all the time. we requested the last release of a certain package, but we didn't check the provided repo, just its parents 15:41
kparal which I didn't really understood and I believe it was wrong, until someone proves me otherwise :) 15:41
wwoods very possible 15:42
kparal so I have rewritten it to a behaviour I suppose it's correct, and by the way it also fixed the traceback we received before 15:42
jlaska should I just apply this patch to our current instance? 15:42
kparal jlaska: I believe it should work (better than before) 15:42
jlaska kparal: okay, I'll apply and respond with results 15:43
kparal jlaska: yes please 15:43
* kparal has to run, sorry 15:43
jlaska #action jlaska apply and provide results against autoqa patch (https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html) 15:43
jlaska kparal: cya 15:43
jlaska the other non-depcheck issue was vaschenb upgrade-path test 15:43
jlaska I commented that I thought we'd probably want a method of running this test outside of the test harness (for folks who play the autoqa home-game) 15:44
jlaska but then kparal and vaschenb pointed out that you can run the tests locally using a method I wasn't aware of 15:44
jlaska just using 'autoqa post-bodhi-update --local ...' 15:44
* jskladan likes (and heavily uses) the --local) 15:44
jlaska wwoods: did you have any thoughts on that approach vs a stand-alone script? 15:45
wwoods either way seems fine to me 15:46
jlaska I really like the stand-alone version, but then that means we have to write multiple option parsers etc... 15:46
jlaska I don't often install 'autoqa' when testing out of git ... so I'm not familiar with this method 15:47
wwoods I guess I just want to make sure we recognize that writing a test this way is not the most obvious (or simplest) path for general audiences 15:47
jlaska as long as we document how to run the test somewhere, right? 15:47
wwoods if you're skilled at hacking around in autoqa already then yeah, this totally works and saves you having to write option parsers etc. 15:48
wwoods but for people who are like "hey I want to write a test, how does autoqa work" I'm still going to suggest "Write the test first, you don't need to know the full details of how autoqa works until you have a working test" 15:48
jskladan well, my opinion is also a bit torn between these two options - having the test as "standalone" is absolutely superb for non-autoqa geeks 15:48
jskladan but some tests can benefit a big time from the autoqa libs 15:49
jlaska jskladan: you can still use autoqa libs for the stand-alone test 15:49
jlaska just not autotest libs 15:49
jskladan well, if you "make install" the autoqa, that is 15:49
wwoods in short: I'm happy with both methods, but that means we need to support two ways of writing tests 15:50
jlaska at least, that was my understanding of 'stand-alone' ... but this topic pointed out that the definition of 'stand-alone' was a bit vague 15:50
wwoods one for autoqa hackers only, and one that's for everyone 15:50
jskladan i do like the --local, because i do not have to provide a arg parser for my script 15:50
jskladan (because autoqa parses it for me) 15:50
jlaska that's nice 15:51
jskladan but i sure do understand the stand-alone benefits 15:51
jskladan and i totally agree with will on "write the test first" for non-autoqa-hackers 15:51
jlaska so it doesn't seem there is a _wrong_ way to do this ... and this can be left as an exercise for the author? 15:52
wwoods so yeah I think we're agreed here: non-standalone tests are totally acceptable - and really handy for proficient autoqa hackers 15:52
jlaska #info in response to Vojta's upgrade-path patch, the group agreed that non-standalone tests are totally acceptable - and really handy for proficient autoqa hackers 15:53
jskladan i belive, that we can all agree, that we should document (and highlight) the --local option 15:53
jskladan so the non-hackers are able to run current tests 15:53
jlaska more docs! 15:53
jskladan (maybe a note on the "how to write tests"?) 15:53
wwoods yeah, definitely! 15:53
jskladan jlaska: docs rock the world :) 15:53
jlaska jskladan: :D 15:54
jlaska alrighty ... anything other autoqa topics? 15:54
jskladan so, i'll add a "how to run the test" note to the wiki page 15:54
jlaska jskladan: feel free to queue up a ticket for future consumption 15:54
jlaska this is one that even I can probably help with ... esp since I'd like to learn this method 15:55
jskladan #action jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki 15:55
jlaska vaschenb: wwoods: anything else from you guys? 15:55
wwoods nope, I'm good 15:55
vaschenb jlaska: nothing 15:55
jlaska alright, thanks folks ... love seeing the patch review and test progress on autoqa-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org 15:56
jlaska great to see things moving forward 15:56
jlaska Okay ... it's that time again ... 15:56
jlaska #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here> 15:56
jlaska anything to discuss/review/debate that we haven't already touched on? 15:57
jlaska if nothing raised, I'll close out the meeting in 2 minutes 15:57
* adamw has nothing 15:58
topy I search technical documentation about architectural of fedora cluster (redhat), but I don't find nothing of interesting. Can someone drive me to some useful links ? 15:58
jsmith topy: Please don't interrupt the meeting to ask a non-related question 15:59
jlaska Closing out in 30 seconds ... 15:59
Viking-Ice jlaska: I wanted to ask if it has been considered to the nightly composes actually would use updates-testing or special koji repo for their compose.. 15:59
Viking-Ice so testers would get the latest bits instead of some outdated ones 16:00
jlaska Viking-Ice: I believe we talked about that at a previous meeting ... kparal raised that topic in your absence 16:00
* jlaska finds 16:00
Viking-Ice Oh I see 16:00
jlaska https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20100816#Nightly_live_composes 16:00
jlaska Viking-Ice: you might want to add your point to the QA retrospective once I post the link ... 16:01
adamw note, not captured in the summary there, nirik's explanation: 16:01
adamw " the idea was that we should be testing the thing that we would ship." 16:01
jlaska it would be a nice addition to the current live image process, but I don't think I'd want it to *replace* the live images used now 16:02
jlaska adamw: thanks 16:02
Viking-Ice we got alpha beta etc images for that 16:02
satellit_ Are the nightly composes working? last one for soas seems to be the 18th 16:02
Viking-Ice satellit_: offtopic ask in QA 16:03
satellit_ ok 16:03
jlaska satellit_: they appear to have failed ... we can follow-up with nirik in #fedora-qa 16:04
jlaska alright folks ... thanks for your time 16:04
jlaska I'll send minutes to the list 16:04
jlaska #endmeeting 16:04

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