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Fedora Project Board Meeting :: Tuesday 2008-10-07


Trademark Update

  • followup: Board/Meetings/2008-09-30#Trademark_Update_.282008-09-16.29
  • Paul had several discussions with RH's attorney responsible for TM issues
  • Spot and Paul have a conference call with him and outside counsel tomorrow afternoon.
  • Counsel has seen They have seen the draft marks produced by Artwork
  • Spot and Paul will be hashing out the last of the issues with them, including licensing for the secondary mark.
  • It would be really helpful if the mark was freely licensed, i.e. redistributable and modifiable

Board Q&A

  • Handling of respins and source
  • See more details in IRC log

IRC Transcript

stickster Today we have two items on the agenda. 11:03
quaid Paul is sitting at the back of a conference room :) 11:03
stickster We'll take up to 10 minutes for each, and then move on to Q&A 11:04
stickster First up, codecs: Board/Meetings/2008-09-30#Codecs_.282008-09-16.29 11:04
stickster The action items up were for spot to correspond with the PackageKit upstream about Fedora-specific information, 11:06
spot I did this, and we came up with a way to support this 11:06
stickster and to make sure the bullet points of concern were handled properly in the workflow 11:06
spot i need to make the webpage that PackageKit will point to 11:06
stickster spot: And in your estimation do the new GStreamer deps + PackageKit properly deliver the desired results? 11:07
* stickster is somewhat leading the witness since he tried this in F10 Beta. 11:08
notting spot: how does that webpage differ from the existing one? 11:08
spot notting: if there is an existing one, i'll just update it 11:08
quaid spot: btw, something occurred to me last night 11:08
spot where is the "existing one"? 11:08
stickster CodecBuddy 11:08
quaid can we do a different URL than the wiki? 11:08
stickster quaid: As in, move it to a proper web page under fp.o/ ? 11:09
quaid we need to translate the content on the target page. 11:09
quaid stickster: yes 11:09
stickster Ah, good point that. 11:09
quaid then Apache can detect the language and serve the right sub-dir 11:09
quaid so it will be fp.o/$foo/ == en-US, and $foo/$lang/ == $lang 11:09
quaid or something :) 11:09
* quaid carefully steps back from specifying the technical how, to leave it at the what 11:10
stickster Right, in other words, just do what we do with our other pages on fp.o/ proper. 11:10
quaid +1 11:10
* stickster notes that capability is already there and working well AFAICT 11:10
quaid there is a freeze date for that content for l10n ... 11:10
f13 yes, ther eis 11:10
* stickster notes "fp.o" == "" for those listening in 11:11
quaid 2008-11-17 11:11
stickster Sorry for using jargon, I'll try to keep it to a minimum. 11:11
f13 String freeze was at 9/11 11:11
quaid as per 11:11
f13 translation deadline is 10/21 11:11
spot i'll write the english page. :) 11:11
quaid spot: you can hand it off to ricky, we can come up with the suitable name and give that back to hughsie? 11:12
spot hughsie just wants the URL 11:12
quaid f13: I think that is string freeze for software, not fp.o 11:12
quaid spot: that's what I mean 11:13
stickster spot: quaid: We should be able to just assign a URL. 11:13
f13 quaid: ok, having different dates for both is a little confusing (: 11:13
quaid we can decide that by today, looks like ricky is around 11:13
stickster ricky will, I'm sure, be willing to file it wherever we ask him :-) 11:13
stickster Trac ticket! 11:13
quaid f13: well, we do need more time to finalize the marketing-type content, l10n is a staggered affair these days 11:13
stickster OK, given what I see here, the follow up items are: 11:14
stickster * spot - create the English page 11:14
stickster * quaid (and/or spot) - assign a page name under fp.o and file a Trac ticket at 11:14
stickster * spot - give page to hughsie for PK inclusion 11:15
spot wfm 11:15
stickster Anything else? 11:15
stickster spot: capital, my good man 11:15
stickster Shall we move on? 11:15
mdomsch FYI 11:16
mdomsch 11:16
mdomsch gst-install-plugin-helper needs execstack, SELinux denials 11:16
stickster D'oh! 11:16
f13 yeah, that's a fun one, especially given the browser presence 11:16
mdomsch I put it on the blocker list 11:16
f13 oh wait, maybe I'm thinking of a different PK plugin 11:16
stickster execstack, ugh. 11:17
mdomsch ftl 11:17
stickster Darn it, Dan Walsh was just sitting here 11:17
stickster I'll hit him up for some know-how on this when we're done ;-) 11:17
stickster OK, good point mdomsch, thanks. 11:17
quaid he'll fix it during the next session and roll a new package, I bet 11:17
mdomsch not dan's to fix 11:17
quaid oh, sorry, just re-read that, yep 11:17
mdomsch hughsie 11:17
* quaid smells wandering in to the weeds ... 11:18
stickster mdomsch: Right, I just want to understand it 11:18
mdomsch moving on 11:18
stickster moving on? 11:18
quaid +1 11:18
stickster Next (and last) agenda item -- trademarks: Board/Meetings/2008-09-30#Trademark_Update_.282008-09-16.29 11:18
stickster Update to status -- had several discussions with RH's attorney responsible for TM issues 11:19
stickster Spot and I have a conference call with him and outside counsel tomorrow afternoon. 11:19
stickster They have seen the draft marks produced by Artwork: 11:19
stickster User:Pfrields/Secondary_trademark_design 11:19
stickster We'll be hashing out the last of the issues with them, including licensing for the secondary mark. 11:20
stickster It would be *really* helpful if the mark was freely licensed, i.e. redistributable *and* modifiable. The latter is a pretty hairy issue, it sounds like. 11:20
stickster eof 11:21
stickster Questions? Comments? 11:22
spot fwiw, i plan to push very hard for it to be modifiable 11:22
spot but it may be a showstopper 11:22
f13 stickster: keep up the good work? (: 11:22
stickster ha 11:22
mdomsch you mean the graphic that includes the word mark? 11:22
* quaid is quite pleased with all these trademark proceedings 11:22
spot mdomsch: yes. 11:22
spot the "icon" 11:22
mdomsch good 11:22
stickster mdomsch: yes, the "Fedora Remix" word design. 11:22
quaid that would mean that *all* of the designs on that page 11:23
spoleeba spot, is full modifiability is not possible.. will it be possible to layout specific ways it can be modified..say color for example 11:23
quaid would be allowed remixes of the word mark 11:23
stickster spoleeba: That *is* a possibility we will explore. 11:23
spoleeba stickster, only after full modifiability is off the table 11:23
stickster yes, of course. 11:23
spot spoleeba: so, while that might be something we'd pursue, its worth noting that it would require a custom license for such a thing and it wouldn't be a free license. 11:24
stickster We're not going to start by giving ground. 11:24
spoleeba spot, right 11:24
quaid question about word marks and visual graphics for them. 11:24
stickster quaid: shoot 11:24
quaid let's say we choose "fedora rem1x" 11:24
quaid and a graphic to represent that 11:24
quaid if I am writing "fedora rem1x" is _that_itself_ a usage of the 'mark? 11:24
quaid in other wordds, I just remixed your word mark into ASCII 11:25
spot "Fedora Remix" would be the mark. 11:25
spot using the mark in ways that would confuse it would not be permitted 11:25
spot the same way you couldn't call your linux distribution "Fuhdora" 11:25
stickster If I understand correctly, "Fedora" is a trademark and "Remix" is not; but using the word "Fedora Remix" would read directly on the trademark 11:25
mdomsch spot: would there be no way to police say nsfw-linux "a Fedora Remix" and a unique icon containing those words? 11:25
stickster s/word/words/ 11:25
spot mdomsch: the guidelines cover that case. 11:26
spoleeba quaid, looking at some of the graphics.. "Fedora Rem!x" would be the ascii version 11:26
quaid spoleeba: looks all lowercase to me, though 11:26
stickster Don't confuse the word *design* with the words. 11:26
quaid so, am I violating RHT's trademark when I write "Redhat"? 11:27
quaid violate isn't the right word ... 11:27
stickster You're colliding with the usage, yes. 11:27
stickster s/usage/\1 guidelines/ 11:27
quaid I'm not seeing the ground you are going to stand on to argue for a freely licensed word mark then? 11:28
spot quaid: not the mark, the "image" 11:28
quaid semantics 11:28
spot no, it really is not 11:28
stickster No, actually very different things. 11:28
quaid the same argument that says I cannot write "Fudor4" applies 11:29
spot no, it does not. 11:29
* quaid awaits the bolt of enlightenment 11:29
spot quaid: 11:29
spot that thread might help. 11:30
stickster So these questions are of usage as opposed to the overall progress toward establishing a useful secondary mark 11:31
stickster We can probably debug this on FAB and use this time for any community questions 11:32
* quaid is OK with that 11:32
stickster Although it seems like there are not many queued up right now. 11:32
stickster So what I've captured is: 11:32
stickster * spot and stickster - meet with Da Law (yers) 11:33
stickster (and report back.) 11:33
stickster Anything to add? 11:33
stickster Move on to questions, then? 11:33
spot sure. 11:34
ctyler +1 11:34
stickster OK, spevack, let 'er rip! 11:34
spevack ok 11:34
spevack only one question right now 11:34
spevack to make up for last month's onslaught :) 11:34
spevack Southern_Gentlem wants to know if it is ok for the FreeMedia group to send the respins (which include updates) to the requestors, because in many cases the people requesting don't have bandwidth to begin with, which is why they are asking for FreeMedia. 11:35
spevack Consensus among the FreeMedia people seems to be that they like the idea, but wanted to see if the board had any objections 11:35
spevack EOF 11:35
f13 I wouldn't have any objection, the age old question remains though, do we send them source media along with the binary? 11:36
mdomsch or have a way for them to request (or clearly _not_ request) such when they request the binary CDs 11:36
spoleeba mdomsch, wouldn't it be safest to have an opt out of source? 11:37
stickster If we're posting media to someone (i.e. sending by postal mail) we really *should*. And by *should*, I mean we may have to unless they specifically ask that we *not* do it. 11:37
mdomsch spoleeba, yes 11:37
f13 (sorry for derailing this issue) 11:37
mdomsch Southern_Gentlem, can the use choose which they want? 11:38
mdomsch original or respin? 11:38
f13 back on topic, I don't see a problem with providing respins, so long as the recipient clearly knows ahead of time that they're getting a respin, and not the official Fedora release. 11:38
spevack inode0 says that they send out source on request 11:38
spevack and Southern_Gentlem reports that the respins also provide the source 11:39
* spevack thinks that it's probably time for someone to just check in with the current FreeMedia leadership and see if there's any process improvements needed in general. 11:39
stickster spevack: I think Free Media probably should revisit this in favor of an opt-out rather than an opt-in, but maybe spot wants to weigh in... 11:39
spevack This is something I promised Thomas chung I would do, but I haven't gotten to it yet 11:39
* spot doesn't want to weigh in. 11:40
stickster heh 11:40
stickster spevack: I'll be happy to do that 11:40
mdomsch I'd like the requestor to be able to say "I want the respin" or "I want the original" 11:40
notting yeah, but we probably should at least *offer* the source 11:41
mdomsch but after that, as source is provided too, no problems here 11:41
notting oh wait, n/m 11:41
spevack stickster: how about whichever of us has the extra cycles first gets to it, and take into account mdomsch's suggestion as well as the opt-out idea. 11:41
stickster spevack: you're on 11:41
* spevack kicks up his feet and orders another pina colada 11:41
spevack stickster: well, that was the only question/comment/topic from the #fedora-board-public room 11:42
stickster Wow. 11:42
spevack stickster: though one guy offered to ask knock knock jokes if you had to avoid dead air 11:43
spoleeba stickster, ill make sure to stir up some controversy by the next meeting 11:43
stickster I'll drag out the knock knock banana joke, it'll slay 'em. 11:43
stickster spoleeba: Please. Don't. 11:43
stickster :-) 11:43
* stickster sees that the f-marketing-l still has the election issue discussion underway per last week's new business. 11:44
* stickster moves to let that ride until next week 11:44
* ctyler seconds that 11:44
spoleeba and thats it for me..out of time 11:45
spevack inode0 also wanted to be on the record as thanking those responsible for the rebirth of the Fedora Reloaded podcast 11:45
spevack EOF from me 11:45
quaid be careful or we'll start chatting about random stuff and _create_ controversy. 11:45
stickster spevack: Oh yes, Skirlet and Klaatu, right? 11:45
quaid awesome 11:45
* stickster gives gratuitous shout-out 11:45
stickster OK, with that, I think we're moved to adjourn. Aye's? 11:45
f13 I 11:46
spot eye 11:46
* quaid points at his eye 11:46
ctyler aye 11:46
stickster clown shoes. 11:46
mdomsch +1 11:46
stickster OK everyone, thanks for coming to this uncharacteristically short Board meeting! 11:46

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