Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090401

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Sparks <meeting id="Docs Project"> Apr 01 20:00
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Apr 01 20:00
Docs Project Meeting - Agenda:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings
Sparks Roll call! Apr 01 20:00
quaid let the boy change the topic at least :) Apr 01 20:00
*radsy is here Apr 01 20:00
*quaid esta aqui Apr 01 20:00
*jjmcd here Apr 01 20:00
*Sparks is here Apr 01 20:00
*glezos είναι εδώ Apr 01 20:00
glezos if that seemed all greek to you.. I'm Apr 01 20:01
here.
quaid wordplay! Apr 01 20:01
jjmcd glezos: sometime in a bar remind me to tell you Apr 01 20:01
my story about greek
*Sparks er her Apr 01 20:01
jjmcd -- Apr 01 20:02
Sparks glezos: Everything looks greek to me at Apr 01 20:02
this hour
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3.1b3/20090327190841]")
*joat says "me too!" Apr 01 20:02
*ryanlerch Apr 01 20:02
(n=rlerch@nat/redhat/x-0dd0cf536998819b) has joined #fedora-meeting
Sparks Okay... I see one of my stars on board Apr 01 20:02
so let's go harass him.
Sparks Oh, I spoke too soon! Both of them! Apr 01 20:03
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Apr 01 20:03
Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd
jcm jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jjmcd jlaska jnettlet Apr 01 20:03
joat juhp jwb
Sparks jjmcd: Okay, let me have it! Apr 01 20:03
jjmcd OK, I basically got 4 kinds of beats Apr 01 20:03
*rudi (n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-6dae8d4e0825a1f2) Apr 01 20:03
has joined #fedora-meeting
jjmcd ok' Apr 01 20:03
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jjmcd Oh Apr 01 20:04
jjmcd When you said.... never mind Apr 01 20:04
jjmcd 1) No content in wiki, not sure whether any Apr 01 20:04
changes, might drop:
jjmcd Arch specific, printing, daemons, server config Apr 01 20:04
tools
Sparks jjmcd: You here tonight? I might not be Apr 01 20:04
jjmcd 2) Limited content in wiki, might go with Apr 01 20:05
limited content:
jjmcd Entertainment, Live, Security Apr 01 20:05
jjmcd 3) NEED CONTENT: Apr 01 20:05
jjmcd Networking, boot, web, mail, database, file Apr 01 20:05
servers
jjmcd 4) Significant chunks of wiki to convert: Apr 01 20:05
jjmcd Virtualization, Xorg, Cluster, Kernel Apr 01 20:05
jjmcd (Virtualization is an update hence tedious, Xorg Apr 01 20:05
could use more content)
jjmcd Just talked to Ryan, he can deal with xorg Apr 01 20:05
jjmcd The more help we can get the less we will have Apr 01 20:05
to drop, but basically
jjmcd we need to be done midday tommorow eastern so we Apr 01 20:05
can make the pot
Sparks jjmcd: Have you worked the kinks out of Apr 01 20:06
the pot?
jjmcd We know how to make the pot Apr 01 20:06
Sparks cool Apr 01 20:06
jjmcd We think we can then use the result Apr 01 20:06
jjmcd That second part hasn't been proven, but Apr 01 20:06
jjmcd stickster and glezos seem to thinnk it isn't a Apr 01 20:06
problem
Sparks And you are going with that? Apr 01 20:06
Sparks  :) Apr 01 20:07
jjmcd yes Apr 01 20:07
Sparks So what do you need from me/Docs? Apr 01 20:07
quaid right, it's no worse than what we've done in the Apr 01 20:07
past
rudi There are a few strings in the po files for the Apr 01 20:07
F10 notes that can be reused: the Welcome section and maybe some section
titles
jjmcd We could use some hands to research servers, Apr 01 20:07
networking
jjmcd and do some of the remaining conversions Apr 01 20:07
jjmcd without the py tools it is basically cut and Apr 01 20:07
paste
quaid jjmcd: you mean the xml conversion tools? Apr 01 20:08
jjmcd yeah Apr 01 20:08
Sparks Okay, I think there have been some Apr 01 20:08
advances to the NetworkManager... not sure about the rest
jjmcd the ones that need some library or another and Apr 01 20:08
don't work anymore
*stickster_afk is now known as stickster Apr 01 20:08
jjmcd I'm not so sure cut/paste isn't easier anyway Apr 01 20:08
quaid jjmcd: aren't there packages we can use now, Apr 01 20:08
although not yet in the repo?
jjmcd Seems like there was something broken Apr 01 20:08
*quaid is sorry, shall we hold tool discussions Apr 01 20:08
for a bit?
Sparks quaid: Yeah, that's coming up Apr 01 20:09
jjmcd Yeah, there's only a few larger pieces anyway Apr 01 20:09
Sparks quaid: Of course we can merge the Apr 01 20:09
topics...
jjmcd cut/paste probably would take a total of a Apr 01 20:09
couple of hours
*quaid should wait :) Apr 01 20:09
jjmcd but if someone does that I can research the Apr 01 20:09
missing pieces
Sparks Okay... who can step up for some last Apr 01 20:09
minute research and converting?
Sparks The first ten people get a piece of Apr 01 20:10
cherry pie (I baked yesterday).
stickster quaid: Are you guys talking about the Apr 01 20:10
problems with mw-render?
Sparks jjmcd: I can try to get some additional Apr 01 20:10
information on NetworkManager.
stickster quaid: Are you guys talking about the Apr 01 20:10
problems with mw-render?
stickster jjmcd: ^^ Apr 01 20:10
jjmcd That would be a help Apr 01 20:11
quaid stickster: yes Apr 01 20:11
jjmcd yes Apr 01 20:11
stickster I think you can download the odfpy07 Apr 01 20:11
review SRPM package that's in Bugzilla and rebuild it locally
jjmcd but over the past few weeks we've gotten most Apr 01 20:11
dome by hand
quaid that's what I'm talking 'bout! Apr 01 20:11
jjmcd so rather than spend time trying to make the Apr 01 20:11
tool work
joat when's it needed by? Apr 01 20:11
jjmcd Tomorrow Apr 01 20:11
Sparks at noon Apr 01 20:11
jjmcd and most of the conversion is done Apr 01 20:11
stickster jjmcd: Yeah, you don't want to spin Apr 01 20:11
useful cycles making a tool work when you could just do some elbow
grease
jjmcd thanks to Ryan Apr 01 20:11
Sparks jjmcd: is that noon EDT? Apr 01 20:12
joat ouch... Apr 01 20:12
jjmcd I figure noon EDT or so will give us plenty of Apr 01 20:12
time for pits, git branches etc
jjmcd pots I mean Apr 01 20:12
Sparks pots or pits Apr 01 20:12
jjmcd We still need a strategy for l10n Apr 01 20:12
quaid I clarified on the timing to f-devel-l et al, Apr 01 20:12
fwiw
jjmcd to see a clean one pot system while not loosing Apr 01 20:13
our 30~ pots
jjmcd but I don't see that as a big problem Apr 01 20:13
stickster jjmcd: The "strategy" is, I think, to Apr 01 20:14
create a new git branch, put the one POT in that branch and remove the
other POTs, have Transifex use that branch, and let the L10n'ers know.
jjmcd Yep I think that's it Apr 01 20:14
quaid that's more like a tactic, in my book :) Apr 01 20:14
stickster The 'master' branch will retain Apr 01 20:14
everything in a normal Publican fashion
jjmcd that was my thought, assuming tx can use an Apr 01 20:14
arbitrary branch
stickster quaid: Yeah, you caught me, but I think Apr 01 20:14
that's what was asked for
quaid we need to interact with an admin of Apr 01 20:14
translate.fedoraproject.org
quaid although theoretically we could grow knowledge Apr 01 20:15
of how to add modules within our group, if we want
stickster I'm sure either Rasther or glezos would Apr 01 20:15
be able to help there.
rudi So are we planning to have L10N create one big Apr 01 20:15
po per language?
jjmcd yep Apr 01 20:15
jjmcd Then we will merge those strings into the Apr 01 20:15
individual pos
quaid and then slice it up to reinsert in to Publican? Apr 01 20:15
jjmcd exactly Apr 01 20:16
quaid ah, ok, that's a nicer way to say it, merge. Apr 01 20:16
jjmcd Apparently there is some tool Apr 01 20:16
Sparks slice and dice Apr 01 20:16
rudi That will be an non-trivial task for the Install Apr 01 20:16
guide with ~700 po files
quaid only if it requires manual intervention? Apr 01 20:16
jjmcd bash is my friend Apr 01 20:16
*laubersm Apr 01 20:17
(n=laubersm@72-255-35-203.client.stsn.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
stickster jjmcd: yes, msgmerge Apr 01 20:17
jjmcd I'm happy to see so many people raise their Apr 01 20:17
hands to help
*quaid loves to play in bash Apr 01 20:17
*jjmcd often reverts to C - the angels' language Apr 01 20:18
stickster jjmcd: I can do the Virt beat Apr 01 20:18
quaid where is the list? Apr 01 20:18
stickster quaid: See above ^^^^ Apr 01 20:18
jjmcd We got good content, but the conversion will be Apr 01 20:18
a bit of a pain
*laubersm pops in to try to catch up Apr 01 20:18
stickster 'round 00:04 Apr 01 20:18
jjmcd http://fpaste.org/paste/7653 Apr 01 20:19
jjmcd laubersm: Need to get done tomorrow midday ehat Apr 01 20:20
we're talking about
Sparks jjmcd: Is there anything we can Apr 01 20:20
steal/borrow from KDE and GNOME for arch specific?
stickster Sparks: Wouldn't make sense, they're Apr 01 20:20
higher up the stack.
stickster Typically those involve things like Apr 01 20:20
minimum hardware requirements and install gotchas
Sparks stickster: Ahhh.. Okay Apr 01 20:20
jjmcd I didn't see anything arch specific there - I'm Apr 01 20:20
not so sure there really is anything
jjmcd OK, so maybe we need to review the F10 notes Apr 01 20:21
Sparks Okay... let's come back to this at the Apr 01 20:22
end to get the volunteers.
Sparks any other questions about the Release Apr 01 20:22
notes?
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Apr 01 20:22
Beat writers flagging content for alpha/beta one-sheet
quaid ok, this was mine Apr 01 20:23
Sparks Okay... not sure what this is but I'm Apr 01 20:23
pretty sure I didn't put it up
Sparks Oh good... Apr 01 20:23
Sparks Go quaid Apr 01 20:23
quaid a question came up on f-i18n-l because they have Apr 01 20:23
some cool new tech (ibus) that didn't get in either the announcement and
or the one page Beta notes
quaid I'm sure it's on their beat Apr 01 20:24
*inode0 has quit ("Leaving.") Apr 01 20:24
quaid and that is where it *should* be, right? Apr 01 20:24
quaid they right one source, etc. Apr 01 20:24
quaid but how do the rest of us know what needs early Apr 01 20:24
Alpha or Beta mention, talking points, etc.
quaid other than combing features, etc. Apr 01 20:24
quaid so I wondered what to do? Apr 01 20:24
quaid at the least, give beat writers a way to flag Apr 01 20:24
their content as worth a mention in either the Alpha or Beta or Preview
...
*jjmcd would rather leave that to the marketing Apr 01 20:25
guys
*k0k (n=k0k@fedora/k0k) has joined Apr 01 20:25
#fedora-meeting
*Sparks has an idea Apr 01 20:25
quaid jjmcd: well, the announcement and talking points Apr 01 20:26
... but what about release notes worthy content? and can this all be
covered with one set of instructions for beat writers?
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reset by peer))
*quaid has no plan fwiw Apr 01 20:26
Sparks Okay... Just an idea... Apr 01 20:26
quaid just that we have a system we can build on, etc. Apr 01 20:26
*quaid listens Apr 01 20:26
Sparks If each beat is its own page... Apr 01 20:27
Sparks they can be marked with a category... Apr 01 20:27
Sparks and then we can use those categories to Apr 01 20:27
create the docs...
Sparks so when they are ready for their item to Apr 01 20:27
be included they just add the appropriate cat.
Sparks <eof> Apr 01 20:27
quaid aren't they in a category or two already? Apr 01 20:28
Sparks Maybe... Apr 01 20:28
quaid ok, we could have a [[Category:Release notes Apr 01 20:28
beat Beta content]] for example
Sparks yes Apr 01 20:28
*quaid sees that some are not in a category, Apr 01 20:28
*ick* :D
Sparks So we would see when something got added Apr 01 20:28
to that cat.
quaid right, that sources it Apr 01 20:28
jjmcd The category makes a page, tho. DevTools has Apr 01 20:29
over 100 changes
Sparks This is being done for something but I Apr 01 20:29
don't remember what it is
quaid if they want to consider something as a talking Apr 01 20:29
point for release announcements and PR, they could add that cat, too, i
suppose.
Sparks And they shouldn't add the cat until Apr 01 20:29
they are DONE... finished... no more editing.
quaid jjmcd: so we'd need some way within the page to Apr 01 20:29
mark specific content ...
jjmcd Yeah Apr 01 20:29
quaid Sparks: well, not for Beta, for example Apr 01 20:29
Sparks Well............ Apr 01 20:30
Sparks yeah Apr 01 20:30
quaid and we need to churn discussion before beats are Apr 01 20:30
done; Paul and marketing
quaid have been talking up stuff that are mainly Apr 01 20:30
quaid in feature pages. Apr 01 20:30
jjmcd That discussion mostly on dev-list? Apr 01 20:31
quaid no, I mean Marketing Apr 01 20:31
quaid to the press, blogs, talking points, etc. Apr 01 20:31
*stickster points out that Marketing concentrates Apr 01 20:31
on just a few features that have a really compelling story that can be
built around them
jjmcd mmmm .... good point, there are a lot of cool Apr 01 20:31
stuff that ain't on the feature pages
quaid stickster: I'm thinking we might as well have a Apr 01 20:32
way for beat writers to hook in to that machine with suggestions without
having to create a feature page; a feature doesn't always apply, does
it?
stickster What do you mean, have beat writers Apr 01 20:32
suggest stories to Marketing?
quaid a beat writer may know about a technical change Apr 01 20:33
that is worthy of being a talking point, but that isn't a Feature
*k0k has quit ("Saliendo") Apr 01 20:33
quaid and since Docs Apr 01 20:33
quaid does the release announcements Apr 01 20:33
quaid and does it on more than just the talking points Apr 01 20:33
for the Alpha ... PR
quaid it helps if we know some of that too, right? Apr 01 20:34
jjmcd There are many groups of features that would be Apr 01 20:34
exciting to some niche audiences. I don't know whether the marketing
guys have the cycles for that, but it could be fertile ground
quaid well, we can collect it without using it. Apr 01 20:34
stickster jjmcd: The point of the Marketing Apr 01 20:34
talking points is to reach the widest possible audience
jjmcd Yes, so it is different from the talking points Apr 01 20:34
stickster quaid: I guess I'm not seeing where a Apr 01 20:34
technical change that's not a feature is going to be important enough to
qualify
stickster Maybe an example would help Apr 01 20:35
quaid however, we have niche audiences that could get Apr 01 20:35
niche release focuse; e.g. software developers
jjmcd exctly Apr 01 20:35
jjmcd Chitlesh has a nice story for electronic Apr 01 20:35
designers
jjmcd there are a lot of goodies for hams Apr 01 20:35
stickster quaid: And that's the purpose of the Apr 01 20:35
reorganized release notes, right?
quaid heh, I dunno, if it's not a feature, how do I Apr 01 20:35
know about it?
stickster i.e. "New for Software Developers," "New Apr 01 20:36
for SysAdmins," etc.
quaid stickster: right, and having a beat writer call Apr 01 20:36
out the top 10 items from 100 devel tool changes would be helpful
jjmcd But do you go tell that to Dr. Dobbs Journal? Apr 01 20:36
stickster I think it's important for us not to Apr 01 20:37
overload the talking point process right now, which is young and still
unsteady on its feet
quaid stickster: well, ok, I guess it undermines the Apr 01 20:37
feature process of "own it enough to make a feature page and you get
marketing attention"
stickster quaid: Good point. Apr 01 20:37
quaid but we can collect that info via categories Apr 01 20:37
quaid to gather foci for Alpha, Beta, and PR Apr 01 20:37
quaid I think the final announcement needs to continue Apr 01 20:37
the tight-and-not-overloaded following of the talking points we have
established.
jjmcd Yes I agree Apr 01 20:38
quaid ok, I'll make a note in my ever morphing task Apr 01 20:38
list
quaid to create a set of categories for the beats to Apr 01 20:38
use as a workflow/transition state flags
*jsmith Apr 01 20:38
(n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith) has joined
#fedora-meeting
jjmcd But it seems to me it would be cool id Paul Apr 01 20:38
colud have a story for some niche publications that might not be
interested in just another Linux release
*zwu|gone is now known as zwu Apr 01 20:38
quaid and we can publicize those for the Preview Apr 01 20:38
Release
quaid jjmcd: well, maybe the process of convering as Apr 01 20:39
we go on the relnotes helps him find that stuff earlier
jjmcd Perhaps we should have some "cool for this Apr 01 20:39
audience" wiki pages
*Sparks notes that it is 40 minutes after the Apr 01 20:40
hour and spot needs to go eat...
Sparks quaid: So you have a plan? Apr 01 20:40
*quaid is done with his task taken Apr 01 20:40
Sparks  :) Apr 01 20:41
quaid I think we got it, yeah Apr 01 20:41
Sparks anything else? Apr 01 20:41
quaid thx Apr 01 20:41
quaid eoitem Apr 01 20:41
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Apr 01 20:41
An update to "Publican fix for Fedora?"
quaid thx for hanging spot :D Apr 01 20:41
spot so... let me make a few points quickly here Apr 01 20:41
spot I have given this a LOT of thought over the last Apr 01 20:41
day or so
spot especially after learning about the limitations Apr 01 20:41
of our build/errata tools and RPM
spot my biggest concern about lang separated SRPMs is Apr 01 20:42
this: In RHEL, there are 2,104 doc packages
spot thats 2104 reviews. Apr 01 20:42
Sparks wow Apr 01 20:42
stickster That's scary. Apr 01 20:42
jsmith A plethora! Apr 01 20:42
spot i honestly don't think it scales without a Apr 01 20:43
concerted effort
spot now, if you guys say "we'll tag team and knock Apr 01 20:43
them all out on our own", then i will back away slowly
spot as is, we approved the other two items that were Apr 01 20:43
on FPC's agenda on tuesday
spot * permitting desktop files inline Apr 01 20:43
spot * allowing distro versioning in name when Docs Apr 01 20:44
Project determines it is necessary
spot so, once FESCo ratifies those items Apr 01 20:44
spot (which they should do on Friday, hopefully) Apr 01 20:44
quaid should we have $who there? Apr 01 20:44
spot there would be nothing preventing you guys from Apr 01 20:45
filing package review requests for several thousand doc packages
spot the guidelines don't say you can't carpetbomb Apr 01 20:45
the review requests
*stickster shudders to see other packager Apr 01 20:46
reaction at both that, and then the film-in-reverse anti-carpetbombing
of review approvals
spot i really wish there was a way to make the lang Apr 01 20:46
packages as subpackages, but in talking to folks like paul and mike
hideo about this issue, i don't think that it is possible
*Sparks thinks we'll have to get a B-29 for the Apr 01 20:46
bombing
spot the only thing i would suggest is this Apr 01 20:46
spot Write a simplified template for doing publican Apr 01 20:47
based doc reviews
spot also, write a review checklist Apr 01 20:47
spot and publicize the hell out of it Apr 01 20:47
spot so that you have an example "good spec" and a Apr 01 20:47
checklist
spot i'd be happy to sanity check both Apr 01 20:47
spot then, i wish you luck and i hide in my bunker Apr 01 20:48
jjmcd  ;) Apr 01 20:48
quaid isn't Publican supposed to kick out an SRPM that Apr 01 20:48
can be directly and minimally reviewed?
Sparks We'll definitely be checking in with you Apr 01 20:48
so we are all in sync.
Sparks quaid: Supposed to Apr 01 20:48
quaid that is, once the base of what it does is Apr 01 20:48
approved or fixed or whathaveyou ...
Sparks quaid: Once Publican behaves itself then Apr 01 20:48
it should be too difficult to review.
spot quaid: yes, but you have to realize that the Apr 01 20:48
average person is going to see
"HolyCrap-Documentation_Everywhere-OMG_WTF-1.0-ja"
spot and they aren't going to want to review it. Apr 01 20:48
quaid are we considering the multiple language SRPMS Apr 01 20:49
because:
quaid a) Publican only supports that and we have no Apr 01 20:49
choice
quaid b) We think it's the right way to go (f-r-n is Apr 01 20:49
20 MB and growing ...)
spot quaid: our infrastructure can't handle updating Apr 01 20:49
just a single lang subpackage
quaid c) Publican could be made to support something Apr 01 20:49
else and we'd prefer that, but can't make that happen
Sparks d) all of the above Apr 01 20:49
spot so, if that is important to you, your only real Apr 01 20:50
option is to separate out by lang
quaid ah Apr 01 20:50
spot i tried literally for several hours to find Apr 01 20:50
another way
quaid so if i want to update the French release notes Apr 01 20:50
spot there just isn't one Apr 01 20:50
stickster quaid: Yeah, ianweller unfortunately was Apr 01 20:50
mistaken about that one
quaid right now I need to push a whole package Apr 01 20:50
quaid and with subpackages, i would have to update Apr 01 20:50
the base and all the subs?
quaid but with true stand-alone perlang packages, i Apr 01 20:50
can update them individually.
stickster quaid: Right. Apr 01 20:50
quaid ok Apr 01 20:51
stickster At least, spot and f13 both say that's Apr 01 20:51
how it works.
stickster (which to me means bankworthy) Apr 01 20:51
quaid so Apr 01 20:51
quaid if (b) is the way, we think it's right and Apr 01 20:51
Publican is pushing us in the right direction ...
quaid then doesn't our decision fall from that Apr 01 20:51
realization?
spot well, again, the question is: Apr 01 20:51
spot how realistic is your need to push single lang Apr 01 20:51
subpackages separately?
rudi Packaged up I don't know how big it would be, Apr 01 20:52
but right now the IG with its 36 languages and dozens of screenshots in
each language is up to 600 MB here
jjmcd We have a ways to go before we get to Apr 01 20:52
"thousands", but not as far as we would like
spot if it is a real need, then its a need. Apr 01 20:52
glezos stickster, indeed, we'll be happy to Apr 01 20:52
provide any help requested.
quaid rudi: hot diggity! Apr 01 20:52
stickster It's a real need in my experience, IFF. Apr 01 20:53
we want to respond to translation updates quickly and uniformly from web
to RPM.
quaid (user guide + install guide + release notes + Apr 01 20:53
security guide + selinux guide) * 10 $lang_average == about what we can
expect
spot stickster: okay then. your only option is lang Apr 01 20:53
separated packages.
quaid so not 2000, more like 50+ and not all at once Apr 01 20:53
spot your biggest hurdle will be getting them Apr 01 20:54
reviewed
glezos stickster, the Q is how quickly? We have Apr 01 20:54
the same needs with normal packages, but we don't have langpacks.
stickster glezos: For much the same reasons Apr 01 20:54
stickster Look, Docs is blazing a trail! Apr 01 20:54
quaid we need a few sponsors in Apr 01 20:54
stickster wooo Apr 01 20:54
quaid Docs Apr 01 20:54
*quaid looks at ke4qqq Apr 01 20:54
spot you don't have to be a sponsor to do a review. Apr 01 20:55
spot just sponsored. Apr 01 20:55
quaid ok Apr 01 20:55
spot and if you're low on that front, let me know Apr 01 20:55
quaid I don't want the review process in our way. Apr 01 20:55
spot i can almost certainly sponsor some folks Apr 01 20:55
stickster I'm sponsored Apr 01 20:55
*quaid will sign up Apr 01 20:55
stickster I maintain some packages already Apr 01 20:55
*Sparks would like to be Apr 01 20:55
stickster What would be *most* helpful is for Apr 01 20:56
someoneNotMe() to write the template review.
quaid Sparks: let's do it, like buddy parachuting! Apr 01 20:56
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#fedora-meeting
Sparks If we could manage it all in house, that Apr 01 20:56
could alleviate some of the problems that we are facing, imo
stickster If the template's there, I can commit to Apr 01 20:56
a mess o' reviews.
*Sparks votes to give all packages to stickster Apr 01 20:56
for review
Sparks quaid: Yeah! Apr 01 20:57
*spot hates to run, but is there anything else Apr 01 20:57
you need from me? :)
Sparks spot: What does it take to knight us? Apr 01 20:57
spot Sparks: if by that you mean "sponsor", i just Apr 01 20:57
need to see that you possess basic RPM competancy and an understanding
of the Fedora Packaging Guidelines
spot usually, i do that with a new package review Apr 01 20:58
*Sparks has had his package in review since Apr 01 20:58
DECEMBER!
spot Sparks: email me the bz Apr 01 20:58
spot i will look at it tomorrow Apr 01 20:58
Sparks spot: I will but you'll hate it. Apr 01 20:58
Sparks  :) Apr 01 20:58
Sparks Okay, anything else for spot? Apr 01 20:58
spot is it mono? java? Apr 01 20:58
jjmcd Don't takt Sparks away from the Networking RNs Apr 01 20:59
spot fortran77? Apr 01 20:59
Sparks spot: Security-Guide Apr 01 20:59
quaid Sparks: I think you have what you need if FESCo Apr 01 20:59
ratifies to get it approved, right?
Sparks quaid: Kinda... Apr 01 20:59
quaid he's already on the Cc: on that bug iirc Apr 01 20:59
Sparks Ok Apr 01 20:59
Sparks Thanks spot! Go have some supper. Apr 01 20:59
spot thanks guys, good luck. Apr 01 20:59
quaid so update the bug with the ratified guidelines Apr 01 20:59
as a tickler :)
quaid thx Sparks Apr 01 21:00
quaid spot I mean! Apr 01 21:00
*spot puts on his crash helmet and dives into a Apr 01 21:00
foxhole
Sparks spot: Yeah, that's probably needed. Apr 01 21:00
Sparks Okay, so anything else on the topic? Apr 01 21:00
quaid Docs_team++ Apr 01 21:00
Sparks Okay... next up is... Apr 01 21:00
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Apr 01 21:00
Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSC) Charter
Sparks Wow, is this thing old... Apr 01 21:01
jjmcd stable - better word Apr 01 21:01
*leitz Apr 01 21:01
(n=leitz@adsl-21-134-243.clt.bellsouth.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
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Sparks Apr 01 21:01
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter
Sparks jjmcd: Ha! Apr 01 21:02
Sparks Oh, it's stable... and buggy Apr 01 21:02
Sparks So I'm not going to get into it tonight Apr 01 21:02
but take a peek at it, add your comments to the Talk page, and we'll
come back to it next week.
Sparks Questions? Comments? Crude remarks? Apr 01 21:02
quaid mmm, tasty cruft Apr 01 21:03
Sparks Okay... next up is... Apr 01 21:03
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Apr 01 21:03
CMS Update <-- ke4qqq
Sparks ke4qqq: What do you have for us tonight? Apr 01 21:03
Sparks ke4qqq: ??? Apr 01 21:04
Sparks Okay, he might not be here tonight. I Apr 01 21:05
know the core has been packaged and he was working on getting modules
packaged.
Sparks If anyone has some spare time I'm sure Apr 01 21:05
he could use you to work on packaging.
Sparks Questions? Comments? Apr 01 21:05
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Apr 01 21:05
DocsProject wiki pages changes
Sparks Okay, so I archived some pages today Apr 01 21:06
that were dealing with FDSCo stuff from years past.
jjmcd You're erasing our history??? Apr 01 21:06
Sparks laubersm: What tasks are pending for the Apr 01 21:06
wiki?
*danielsmw gasps Apr 01 21:06
Sparks jjmcd: Archiving is NOT the same as Apr 01 21:06
erasing.
Sparks gees Apr 01 21:06
*Sparks wishes he could archive jjmcd... :) Apr 01 21:07
*danielsmw gasps again Apr 01 21:07
jjmcd That guy is nothing but trouble Apr 01 21:07
Sparks Have we stayed up past everyone's bed Apr 01 21:07
time?
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Apr 01 21:07
Open Discussion
jjmcd I saw laubersm come in Apr 01 21:07
Sparks Okay... It's late... does anyone have Apr 01 21:08
anything they want to talk about?
*glezos still sees his name on an FDSCo page and Apr 01 21:08
wondering why the hell it's there since there are so many awesome guys
working on Docs today.
danielsmw Oh, I have something to say Apr 01 21:08
stickster It's better to burn out than to fade Apr 01 21:08
away!
*laubersm is on pda = slow typing Apr 01 21:08
danielsmw A while ago I made a compat package to Apr 01 21:08
make mw-render work again
Sparks laubersm: yikes Apr 01 21:08
danielsmw but i'm not getting sponsored because i Apr 01 21:08
basically do no other packaging
quaid glezos: cruft abounds in the house of the Apr 01 21:08
carpenter
danielsmw anyone else want to take it and submit? Apr 01 21:08
glezos quaid, what can we do to change it? Apr 01 21:08
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#fedora-meeting
quaid glezos: volunteer to help clean up wiki pages :) Apr 01 21:09
Sparks danielsmw: That sucks... Okay, so do Apr 01 21:09
you have a bz ticket #?
glezos oh -- it's just wiki pages then. Apr 01 21:09
quaid danielsmw: I think you should get to be the Apr 01 21:09
packager
danielsmw Sparks: yeah, hold on Apr 01 21:09
danielsmw quaid: a good idea as well Apr 01 21:09
quaid glezos: well, maybe f-docs-l admin or something, Apr 01 21:09
stuff that's decentralized
danielsmw Sparks: 491946 Apr 01 21:09
Sparks .bug 491946 Apr 01 21:10
buggbot Bug Apr 01 21:10
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 medium, low,
---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy
zodbot Sparks: Bug 491946 Review Request: Apr 01 21:10
odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy -
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=491946
buggbot Bug 491946: medium, low, ---, nobody, Apr 01 21:10
NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy
Sparks stickster: you said you could review Apr 01 21:11
packages?
Sparks  :) Apr 01 21:11
quaid how about abadger1999 or spot Apr 01 21:11
Sparks Yeah, spot! Apr 01 21:11
Sparks danielsmw: It took my package a while to Apr 01 21:12
get noticed. I think mhideo went and poked one of his Brisbane guys to
do it.
abadger1999 k. I'll take it. Apr 01 21:12
Sparks Now that's service right there. Apr 01 21:12
quaid yeah, we can do better reviewing within this Apr 01 21:12
team
abadger1999 Are we sure that the package can't be Apr 01 21:12
ported to the current version of odfpy?
danielsmw lol Apr 01 21:12
quaid and call in favors once it's ready to get Apr 01 21:12
sponsorship
Sparks quaid: +1 Apr 01 21:13
Sparks laubersm: Did you have anything for us Apr 01 21:14
tonight?
laubersm no Apr 01 21:14
jjmcd laubersm: Want to help with research/conversion? Apr 01 21:14
Sparks laubersm: Okay, wanted to give you a Apr 01 21:14
chance to get in there with all the background noise going on.
quaid jjmcd: I'm going to try really, really hard to Apr 01 21:15
appear at the right time and do whatever needs doing at that point.
quaid is there an active Release notes tasks list? Apr 01 21:15
jjmcd I have an ODS, I should make it a wikipage I Apr 01 21:15
guess
jjmcd But I see things disappearing from the list as Apr 01 21:16
we speak
quaid yes plz Apr 01 21:16
quaid ah, your list Apr 01 21:16
quaid we just need on of the usual status with tracker Apr 01 21:16
and who has what "write, edit, convert to xml" columns
jjmcd yes, what I fpasted is basically the short Apr 01 21:16
version
*laubersm is teaching this on the road... will Apr 01 21:16
check list tomorrow
jjmcd I suspect by the end of the Brisbane workday the Apr 01 21:17
list may look different
laubersm rn due thur? time in edt? Apr 01 21:17
jjmcd Need pots by 2359 and we need some time to Apr 01 21:17
prepare the pots
jjmcd 2359Z that is Apr 01 21:18
*warren has quit ("Leaving") Apr 01 21:18
jjmcd so 19L59 EDT Apr 01 21:18
*laubersm has time fri but that doesnt help Apr 01 21:18
jjmcd No, Friday we will be sorting the spec file and Apr 01 21:19
how to tear the big POs apart
*zwu has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 01 21:19
quaid I didn't see any more pushback or request for Apr 01 21:19
more time
quaid but we'll likely see new content for the final Apr 01 21:19
notes
quaid that might have been in this time, possibly Apr 01 21:19
maybe
jjmcd quaid: We can make 2359, but the more hands the Apr 01 21:19
better the quality
quaid righto Apr 01 21:19
rudi Quick question - I feel like I'm missing the Apr 01 21:20
point of something here; why are the individual po files still a problem
for L10N?
*Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving") Apr 01 21:20
jjmcd Transifex only can deal with one Apr 01 21:20
jjmcd Kinda like Publican, and easy fix but ...... Apr 01 21:21
rudi But I've seen translators committing Apr 01 21:21
translations of the Publican Common Content sections; with more than one
po file in the directories in question
quaid via Tx? Apr 01 21:22
rudi Yep Apr 01 21:22
quaid well, even after Paul and Dimitris explained it Apr 01 21:22
today, I still had gaps in my brain about it.
rudi Let me verify what I believe I've seen; but we Apr 01 21:23
can talk about that after the meeting anyway
quaid I got that the web interface doesn't have a way Apr 01 21:23
to display (for download, upload, statistics) the individual PO/POT
files
quaid k Apr 01 21:23
Sparks Anything else? Apr 01 21:23
Sparks 5 Apr 01 21:24
Sparks 4 Apr 01 21:24
Sparks 3 Apr 01 21:24
Sparks 2 Apr 01 21:24
Sparks 1 Apr 01 21:24
Sparks Thanks everyone for coming! Apr 01 21:24
Sparks </meeting> Apr 01 21:24