Meeting:Docs IRC log 20091008

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Sparks #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01
zodbot Meeting started Thu Oct 8 00:01:03 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01
Sparks #topic Roll Call 00:01
* Sparks 00:01
* jjmcd is here 00:01
* bcotton is here (who is this guy anyway) 00:01
jjmcd And according to my watch, you were within a couple seconds, probably IRC lag 00:01
* danielsmw is here 00:02
* Sparks wants to shoot the guy who schedules a meeting in the middle of an amateur radio contest! 00:02
jjmcd There's always a contest 00:02
ianweller i wonder who that was 00:02
Sparks  :) 00:02
Sparks 70cm is dead anyway 00:03
Sparks Okay, let's get started... 00:04
Sparks #topic Old Business 00:04
Sparks danielsmw: What the status on the editor for Zikula? 00:05
danielsmw Sparks: i've been working on it for the past hour 00:05
Sparks  :) 00:05
danielsmw Sparks: rpmlint comes out clean now 00:05
Sparks danielsmw: Very cool! 00:05
danielsmw so I think i may go ahead and put it on bugzilla 00:05
danielsmw Yup. 00:06
Sparks Excellent. 00:06
Sparks Let us know if you need any support. 00:06
Sparks Thanks for packaging it! 00:06
danielsmw Sparks: Will do. I probably will later this evening 00:07
danielsmw No problem1 00:07
Sparks rudi: I see you changed the license info on the Fedora brand package for Publican 00:07
rudi Yep -- all done 00:08
Sparks rudi: Excellent 00:08
jjmcd rudi, does that also include the additional localization? 00:08
rudi jjmcd -- kinda 00:08
Sparks ianweller: Did you figure out how to change the license on the wiki? 00:08
rudi It includes the feedback file 00:09
ianweller Sparks: it's in localsettings.php 00:09
ianweller which is in puppet 00:09
Sparks ianweller: So you are good to go? 00:09
rudi But "Document Conventions" is part of the publican package 00:09
rudi not the Fedora brand package. 00:09
ianweller Sparks: sure i'll work on a patch sometime tonight and test it somewhere 00:09
jjmcd That seems odd 00:09
rudi (I also missed 4 languages in the package I released the other day, there's a corrected package in Bodhi now that should appear soon to fix that) 00:10
jjmcd All the langs except Chinese are now building 00:10
rudi Well, since "Document Conventions" documents how Publican renders various XML tags, this doesn't tend to change from brand to brand. 00:10
rudi If someone came up with a very heavily customized brand that *did* change how those tags were rendered, they could also create a new "Document Conventions" text to ship with that package 00:12
rudi Which would override the one in Common_Content/common 00:12
rudi Anyway, I'll see if I can package the extra "Document Conventions" translations into a new release of Publican 0.44 for us 00:13
jjmcd good deal 00:13
Sparks Okay... 00:14
Sparks #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:15
Sparks #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:15
Sparks Can anyone provide an update? 00:15
Sparks Well, I know danielsmw will be submitting the editor for Zikula for review tonight. 00:16
danielsmw Yup. 00:16
Sparks Anyone else have an update? 00:17
Sparks Okay, moving on 00:17
Sparks #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:17
Sparks * #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:17
Sparks #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:17
jjmcd kudos to ianweller for his announcement and notoriety 00:18
Sparks I think ianweller sent out the announcement on Monday. 00:18
Sparks ianweller: Have you received any feedback? 00:18
ianweller no 00:18
jjmcd Sparks, showed up in LWN 00:18
Sparks Cool 00:18
ianweller i am looking into the wiki crap at the moment if anybody's wondering 00:18
jjmcd Just reach into your bucket of magic pixie dust 00:19
Sparks I think quaid was working on contacting previous contributors 00:19
Sparks ianweller: do you have a link for that LWN article? 00:20
* ianweller looksies 00:20
Sparks I think the big thing is going to be #7... Make changes to the guides. Rebuild all current versions and push them to docs.fp.o and repos. (All) 00:21
ianweller http://lwn.net/Articles/355546/ 00:21
ianweller they just copy/pasted my emai 00:21
ianweller email* 00:21
Sparks That means that all guides will need to be updated ASAP. 00:21
Sparks ianweller++ 00:21
Sparks This will be coming up in the near future. 00:22
rudi I feel a world of CVS hurt a-comin :) 00:23
Sparks #action Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license 00:23
Sparks rudi: Yeah 00:23
* danielsmw is afk for a bit 00:23
Sparks Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:23
rudi Are we just republishing F11 docs? 00:23
rudi Or further back too? 00:23
Sparks rudi: I think just F11. 00:24
rudi +1 !!!!!! 00:24
Sparks F10 will be EOL soon anyway. 00:24
Sparks rudi: Unless you want to go back to the FC days.  :) 00:24
rudi Uh.... 00:25
rudi NO 00:25
rudi  :) 00:25
Sparks IMO if people are going to want to use some of our information they would probably want to get it from the latest source and not an old guide. 00:25
* Sparks thinks ianweller got off easy during this ordeal 00:25
Sparks Okay, moving on. 00:26
Sparks #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:26
Sparks #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:26
Sparks Does anyone have an update on this? 00:26
Sparks Going... 00:26
Sparks going... 00:27
Sparks gone. 00:27
rudi Still blocked by the NotEnoughHoursInTheDay bug 00:27
Sparks rudi: Understood. 00:27
rudi Expect some traction after I finish on the Publican 1.0 User Guide :) 00:27
Sparks rudi: You might want to shoot ke4qqq an email on this as I think he wanted to work on it but probably has the same bug. 00:27
rudi (RSN) 00:27
Sparks #topic Guide needs? 00:27
* ianweller hsa to run 00:27
Sparks Okay, anyone have any guides that are in need? 00:28
rudi Sure -- my blocker is getting the content together that legal has agreed to release to the wider community 00:28
Sparks ianweller: Cya 00:28
jjmcd I sent a wuery to qrplinux-L looking for help 00:28
jjmcd no joy 00:28
jjmcd I think I will ping QRP-L, a much bigger list 00:28
bcotton the RPM guide might need a new owner, i am ashamed to admit that I havent done squat with it all summer :-/ 00:28
Sparks jjmcd: On the Amateur Radio guide? 00:28
jjmcd affirm 00:28
jjmcd bcotton: same bug as rudi? 00:28
Sparks jjmcd: Okay. I need to take a stab at some of it. 00:29
bcotton jjmcd: a combo of that and NotEnoughExperience 00:29
Sparks rudi: Which guide is this that you are having legal issues on? 00:29
jjmcd Sparks, it would be nice to have something fairly complete for F12 00:29
Sparks jjmcd: Might be too late in the game 00:29
jjmcd could be 00:30
rudi No guide -- I got left behind -- I was still talking about the Open Source Style Guide 00:30
Sparks rudi: Ahhh 00:30
rudi (and Red Hat's internal Style guidelines) 00:30
Sparks rudi: understood 00:30
Sparks bcotton: What do you need? More help or more time or both? 00:30
jjmcd bcotton, you might be able to get some help from Florian. He asked us to do it, probably could provide content guidance 00:31
bcotton Sparks: a bit of both. i'm taking a new job later this month, which should give me a bit more time once i get settled. i'll also get more experience with git and rpm building, and so forth 00:31
Sparks bcotton: Put the word out on the f-docs-l and see if there are any takers. 00:32
bcotton sparks: to help or to take? i'd be okay with either. i know the guide is rather dated, but i dont want to let it languish any more than it needs to 00:32
Sparks bcotton: Whichever you feel most comfortable. You'd probably find helpers first, though. 00:33
bcotton (i'll also try to hang out in the IRC channel more, i've been fairly absent for a while) 00:33
bcotton sparks: can do! 00:33
Sparks Okay 00:33
Sparks jjmcd and rudi: How goes the RNs? 00:33
jjmcd Well, 00:33
jjmcd I need one small edit before I make the beta rpm 00:34
jjmcd Next move I guess is to update docs.fp.o 00:34
rudi jjmcd -- I've been doing that as langs hit 100% 00:34
jjmcd We have been building every night anf the L10N gang has been working hard 00:34
Sparks excellent 00:35
rudi A couple of thoughts: 00:35
rudi 1) this time, I think we should only move langs to d.fp.o if there's been L10N work in the current cycle 00:35
rudi 2) langs should remain "Drafts" until they hit 100% 00:36
rudi I think we're getting to the point where we should present readers with something a bit more polished 00:37
rudi Some of you may have seen the French L10N team take a firm stand on this recently ;) 00:37
jjmcd Last time there were a lot of langs at 80-90%, shouldn't we pull the trigger on those? Or should we encourage the translators to move that last few percent. 00:37
Sparks I didn't 00:37
Sparks rudi: Can you elaborate? 00:37
rudi (They nuked the entire F12 RN fr.po file because they didn't want to see mishmashed docs published) 00:37
rudi (and don't have plans to translate the F12 RN) 00:38
rudi jjmcd -- I think we need to provide the encouragement to squeeze out that last 10%-20% 00:38
Sparks rudi: So let me get this straight... There were French translations and they removed them all? 00:39
rudi Sparks -- yes 00:39
rudi French translations carried over from previous cycles 00:39
Sparks rudi: That's not going to sit well with me at all. 00:39
rudi For headings and stuff 00:39
Sparks rudi: Why did they do that? 00:39
Sparks What was the reasoning? 00:40
rudi Sparks -- because they saw us (docs) publishing half-complete work in the past and didn't want it to happen again 00:40
jjmcd Sounds so terribly French of them 00:40
ryanlerch rudi: what was the % translated when they nuked it? 00:40
Sparks so they aren't going to do them at all? 00:40
rudi Sparks -- they have no plans to for F12 00:40
Sparks I'm not good with that 00:40
rudi ryanlerch -- only about 10%–20% 00:41
rudi Reused strings. 00:41
Sparks Okay... anything else? 00:42
rudi It does mean, however, that if they decide that they want to do RN in French for (say) F13, they'll need to rebase the PO to F10 00:42
rudi (or start from scratch, as they choose) 00:42
Sparks That's just nuts 00:42
rudi True, but they probably didn't realise that they could just ask us not to publish the doc ;) 00:43
Sparks I'll keep my thoughts to myself at the moment. 00:43
rudi And, I sympathise with their desire not to publish half-finished work to the world 00:43
Sparks Okay, moving on. 00:43
Sparks Anything else in the guide department? 00:43
Sparks #topic New guides? 00:44
Sparks Any new guides to be discussed? 00:44
jjmcd You don't have enough? 00:44
Sparks I don't have enough time to work on the guides I want to work on! 00:44
Sparks  :) 00:44
Sparks #topic Other business 00:45
rudi Just noting that the Virt Guide is up 00:45
Sparks Anyone have anything else they want to talk about? 00:45
Sparks rudi: +1 00:45
rudi On the F12 drafts page 00:45
jjmcd Sparks 00:45
rudi Check it out! :) 00:45
jjmcd You are aware that the beta meeting moved a week 00:45
Sparks jjmcd: Yes... Was going to mention that to you... :) 00:45
jjmcd  :-) Poelstra sent me a note, I wasn't sure it also went to you 00:46
Sparks jjmcd: I saw it on the logistics list. Are you on that? 00:46
jjmcd Not sure, don't think so 00:46
jjmcd I already have too many lists 00:47
Sparks Okay, that list was created as a joint list kinda thing... mutual aid? 00:47
Sparks Okay, anything else? 00:48
jjmcd Yep, the note from JP was posted to logistics so I guess I am on it 00:48
Sparks I actually have something. 00:48
Sparks The first meeting after the F12 release I'll accept nominations for "leader" of the Docs Project. 00:49
Sparks We'll give that a week and then we'll have a poll setup to vote. 00:49
Sparks So be thinking of someone you'd like to see running this thing. 00:49
Sparks I think it is a good idea to do this every release or two... 00:50
jjmcd I don't know if you can get out of it that easy 00:50
Sparks just to keep the ideas new and the momentum moving. 00:50
Sparks jjmcd: One can try. 00:50
Sparks jjmcd: All I have to do is nominate you.  :) 00:50
* ryanlerch nominates zodbot, he is always in meetings... 00:50
rudi lolz@ryanlerch 00:50
Sparks ryanlerch: That's true. And he does take really good notes. 00:50
* bcotton seconds ryanlerch's nomination 00:50
jjmcd I'll decline, but maybe I should nominate EvilBob, he is always at these meetngs, too 00:51
bcotton but here's a question: why can't zodbot be a she? 00:51
EvilBob that is what I get for having a good bouncer 00:51
Sparks bcotton: zodbot sounds too masculine 00:51
jjmcd what about Sonar_Gal? 00:51
jjmcd Always coming and going 00:52
Sparks  :) 00:52
Sparks Okay, anything else? 00:52
danielsmw ls 00:53
* danielsmw apologizes 00:53
Sparks rm -Ir danielsmw 00:53
jjmcd better than firefox http://myfavepornsite & 00:53
Sparks 5 00:54
Sparks 4 00:54
Sparks 3 00:54
Sparks 2 00:54
Sparks 1 00:54
Sparks Thanks everyone for coming! 00:54
Sparks #endmeeting 00:54