Meeting:IRC Support SIG 2009-04-02

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---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - Init process. Apr 02 09:30
nirik who all is here for the irc support sig meeting? Apr 02 09:30
*EvilBob Apr 02 09:30
*zcat barely here Apr 02 09:30
*roguedaemon Apr 02 09:30
EvilBob zcat: that is nothing new Apr 02 09:30
*EvilBob ducks Apr 02 09:30
*zcat throws bacon into shark infested waters, and watches EvilBob Apr 02 09:31
*nirik will wait a few more for folks to wander in. Apr 02 09:31
nirik ok, I guess we can get started. Apr 02 09:32
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - Voting news Apr 02 09:33
nirik I talked with G about using the fedora voting app for op votes... he has some enhancements in mind that would make that possible. Apr 02 09:33
EvilBob nirik: cool Apr 02 09:33
nirik I'm not sure what the timeframe for those is howeverr. Apr 02 09:33
*thomasj Apr 02 09:33
nirik so, we need to figure out what to do in the mean time... Apr 02 09:34
nirik last week linuxguru was proposed. I'm afraid I haven't had time to even ask if he is interested... Apr 02 09:34
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EvilBob Continue as it has been would be my suggestion, that way it only changes once. Apr 02 09:35
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EvilBob less chance for confusion Apr 02 09:35
nirik yeah Apr 02 09:35
roguedaemon he was here last week and didnt say no... Apr 02 09:35
nirik so, we could vote on list? Apr 02 09:35
thomasj +1 Apr 02 09:36
nirik ok, thats fine with me... Apr 02 09:36
nirik anything else on voting? Apr 02 09:36
EvilBob Just to thank you for talking to G about it Apr 02 09:37
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nirik BTW, the tickets are: https://fedorahosted.org/elections/ticket/24 and https://fedorahosted.org/elections/ticket/25 for that enhancement Apr 02 09:37
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nirik ok, moving on... Apr 02 09:37
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - Classroom this weekend Apr 02 09:38
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nirik as usual, we are still looking for teachers. :) Please feel free to sign up... note that this time the times should be good for europe/asia. It's easy to teach a class. ;) Apr 02 09:38
EvilBob che had a question about how we are advertising it in the channel using the bot. Apr 02 09:39
nirik also, I have had the bot advertising every 3 hours in channel. Do we think thats too much ? Apr 02 09:39
nirik yes, just getting to that. ;) Apr 02 09:39
EvilBob nirik: I personally think it is fine but I am also not paying attention to the channel a lot. Apr 02 09:40
*thomasj thinks is fine as well Apr 02 09:40
nirik I can stop it if we think thats too much spamming. Or change it. I thought 3 hours would be long enough to not cause too much trouble... Apr 02 09:40
roguedaemon "normal" people probably dont stick around that long Apr 02 09:40
che nirik, i am just thinking that spamming the channel is not a great way of advertizing things Apr 02 09:40
EvilBob nirik: anything less than 3 hours would be to frequent Apr 02 09:40
roguedaemon 3 hours doesnt strike me as too frequent Apr 02 09:40
che nirik, and it sets a wrong precedent Apr 02 09:41
nirik che: well, irc users are a pretty prime target for this... Apr 02 09:41
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che nirik, yeah but freenode/ Apr 02 09:41
nirik in what way? Apr 02 09:41
vwbusguy- (passively here) Apr 02 09:41
che nirik, yeah but freenode/#fedora should be different than the usual irc ;) Apr 02 09:41
che nirik, bot spam is just annoying. uppercase letters are annoying too ;) Apr 02 09:41
che nirik, an on join notice or a link in the topic would be much better. Apr 02 09:42
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nirik well, both are sadly a bit full I fear. ;( Apr 02 09:42
EvilBob No one reads either of those in my experience Apr 02 09:42
roguedaemon some people never quit Apr 02 09:42
roguedaemon that too Apr 02 09:42
thomasj Nobody reads /topic Well, at least very less people Apr 02 09:42
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nirik well, the topic is for sure, the join might not be too bad, but it might lessen the impact of the current one. Apr 02 09:42
che announcing the stuff on the forum and mailinglist gets the message to alot more people. Apr 02 09:42
EvilBob thomasj: Very *few* people Apr 02 09:43
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che i am not against pushing the classroom stuff and also not against the bot Apr 02 09:43
nirik che: yes, we are doing those things too, but many of them are not irc users... Apr 02 09:43
roguedaemon personally, i have never paid much attention to anything in irc but what happens in channel Apr 02 09:43
che just the general idea of repeated messages to the channel Apr 02 09:43
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EvilBob che: yes it would and they should be there also, but again it is about the target audience Apr 02 09:43
nirik perhaps we should make it not advertise so much in advance tho... Apr 02 09:43
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roguedaemon considering its a one day a week think, maybe every 3 hours is too much Apr 02 09:43
EvilBob nirik: when did it start? Apr 02 09:44
thomasj EvilBob, thanks :) Apr 02 09:44
*nirik looks back Apr 02 09:44
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nirik late monday. Apr 02 09:45
nirik roguedaemon: classes are one weekend a month. Apr 02 09:45
roguedaemon right Apr 02 09:45
EvilBob no matter what we will be missing a lot of people on IRC that are not regulars Apr 02 09:45
nirik so perhaps make it only announce like thur/friday or something. Apr 02 09:45
nirik EvilBob: sure. Many people will join, ask questions and leave and never see it. Apr 02 09:46
che yup Apr 02 09:46
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che and alot people are idle Apr 02 09:46
che and once they look they probably dont scroll up ages... Apr 02 09:46
roguedaemon and during classroom time the previous weekend maybe Apr 02 09:46
EvilBob the only way we could get everyone the is to announce every 15 minutes. lets do that Apr 02 09:46
EvilBob NOT Apr 02 09:46
nirik yeah, that would be way too spammy. Apr 02 09:46
che so basically we agree that it is not very efficient this way Apr 02 09:47
EvilBob roguedaemon: I think that would be a good idea Apr 02 09:47
nirik how about we move it only announcing thur->class time on those weekends every 3 hours and adjust more if we like later? Apr 02 09:47
EvilBob roguedaemon: that would get the message to people that are active on the weekends and not the work week guys Apr 02 09:47
nirik che: yeah, although I have seen people say that they would attend based on that... or that looks interesting. Apr 02 09:47
che nirik, no doubt. it is a 500 people channel. some people of the target audience have seen it. Apr 02 09:48
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roguedaemon dont forget the need for teachers also Apr 02 09:48
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*nirik nods. Thats not a bad idea either... if they are active at that time, they might be next weekend. Apr 02 09:48
che nirik, just the repeated messaging part is something we should think about. Apr 02 09:48
che nirik, there must be a better solution that even gets better impact Apr 02 09:48
roguedaemon i have to agree Apr 02 09:49
nirik che: yeah, I would like to find such a thing... but I thought the impact vs cost/annoyance here was still worth doing. Apr 02 09:49
che nirik, it could be worse but personally i am scared that it will end up in alot announces Apr 02 09:49
che nirik, because other fedora partys might step up and have their stuff announced too Apr 02 09:50
nirik yeah, which would get back to every 5minutes. ;) agreed. Apr 02 09:50
che nirik, were do you draw the line? Apr 02 09:50
che nirik, everyone will complain then.. "unfair" and theyd be right Apr 02 09:50
*nirik nods. It's a very valid concern. Apr 02 09:50
vwbusguy- what about a mailing list Apr 02 09:51
roguedaemon i'm guessing fedbot cant shorten the interval on its own over time? Apr 02 09:51
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nirik vwbusguy-: like fedora-list ? or fedora-announce? we have those. ;) Apr 02 09:52
nirik roguedaemon: no, only specific intervals. Apr 02 09:52
vwbusguy- nirik, right but use that as a means of communicating the classroom Apr 02 09:52
vwbusguy- primary means Apr 02 09:52
che ok i could help scripting if necassery... just python right? Apr 02 09:52
roguedaemon its irc, people most people who use irc just use irc Apr 02 09:52
che but then again the core problem remains Apr 02 09:52
nirik vwbusguy-: yes, we do. Many people do not subscribe to the lists. Apr 02 09:52
vwbusguy- fair enuff Apr 02 09:52
nirik well, I still think it has some value, but I agree it's a slippery slope. :) Apr 02 09:53
roguedaemon nirik: it would be a nice feature though if it could Apr 02 09:53
che well i dont doubt you reach a few users more but you will never reach everyone anyways Apr 02 09:54
che and i do see the good intentions to get the irc people informed Apr 02 09:54
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che thats probably as close to target audience as it can get Apr 02 09:54
nirik yep. How about we limit it for now to closer to the event and think about it more moving forward for a better solution? Apr 02 09:54
che nirik, +1 Apr 02 09:54
che nirik, i am sure a better one can be found. Apr 02 09:54
nirik ie, let it run until classes this weekend, and next time we can do something else, and/or only run it closer to the event. Apr 02 09:55
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roguedaemon spam during class hours the previous weekend, and a couple days before Apr 02 09:55
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nirik after this weekend we would have a month to consider a better/nicer plan. ;) Apr 02 09:56
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nirik sound good? any other input on this? Apr 02 09:56
che nirik, i am happy with that personally. Apr 02 09:57
nirik ok, moving on then... Apr 02 09:57
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - Stats Apr 02 09:57
nirik http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as usual. Apr 02 09:57
nirik the bot got the classroom url on the top list. ;) Apr 02 09:58
thomasj hehe Apr 02 09:58
nirik pulseaudio continues to be a high link. Apr 02 09:59
che i only beat the guy because he told me to "beat him to it" Apr 02 09:59
roguedaemon lol EvilBob Apr 02 09:59
che just to clarify :D Apr 02 09:59
nirik I think it's worked pretty well to point beta users over to fedora-qa... Apr 02 09:59
nirik anyone have anything more on stats? Looks like a pretty normal week, although we did have a high user count this week I think. Apr 02 10:00
Khaytsus F11 fever Apr 02 10:00
thomasj yep Apr 02 10:00
che but the channel is constantly growing too Apr 02 10:00
nirik yeah, f11 release time will be busy. ;) Apr 02 10:00
che if you watch over a longer period Apr 02 10:01
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Khaytsus Speaking of which I think I could spee=nd a week logging bugs on F11b :/ Apr 02 10:01
che rawhide is getting better but there are still various issues Apr 02 10:01
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che there are also various upcoming things... Apr 02 10:01
thomasj Peak for #fedora@freenode: 537 (Wed Apr 1 20:19:11 2009) Apr 02 10:01
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - Open Floor Apr 02 10:01
che like no ctrl + alt + backspace Apr 02 10:01
Khaytsus Yeah, F11B != rawhide I suppose Apr 02 10:01
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nirik yeah, anaconda has some rough spots still. ;( Apr 02 10:01
che i guess it wont be enabled by default anymore Apr 02 10:01
Khaytsus I've updated a few systems, but the installer is what worries me Apr 02 10:01
che there is also an active discussion about killing various system-config-* on the devel list Apr 02 10:02
Khaytsus che: No, what I meant is F11B is a somewhat old snapshot of rawhide at this point Apr 02 10:02
che Khaytsus, yup Apr 02 10:02
nirik che: indeed. I think in the meeting(s) before f11 releases we should try and go over some of those things. Apr 02 10:02
che nirik, definitely Apr 02 10:02
Khaytsus I think killing system-config-* and making a tool that pulls a lot of that together would be nice Apr 02 10:02
nirik also tapping on devices with buttons is disabled by default. I suspect a lot of users will hit that. Apr 02 10:02
Khaytsus I want to start thinking about F11 with my install guide too sometime Apr 02 10:02
che nirik, maybe we should also have a dedicated meeting earlier about those things because we have to deal with the issues in the end. Apr 02 10:02
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Khaytsus So if anyone comes up with F11 specific (or not) things to add to that, let me know. Apr 02 10:02
che nirik, giving proper feedback to developers cant hurt. especially if we do it as "SIG" Apr 02 10:03
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che nirik, there is a tendency of killing troubleshooting stuff and that is of concern for me Apr 02 10:03
zcat nirik, touchpad tap was disabled *again*? Apr 02 10:03
nirik che: well, decisions have been made. I think we could/should do docs/wiki pages on how to enable the old behavior/etc tho. Apr 02 10:03
che nirik, well for the future. Apr 02 10:03
nirik zcat: yes. Apr 02 10:03
roguedaemon che: me too Apr 02 10:03
che nirik, this time we are too late. Apr 02 10:03
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Khaytsus I'm running an F9 -> F11B upgrade here in a few. Pray for me. Apr 02 10:04
Khaytsus nirik: Yes, good point. I agree. Apr 02 10:04
nirik yeah, I would be happy to discuss f11 support items before release... get as many of us up to speed as we can, and document things that are likely to have lots of people asking. Apr 02 10:04
zcat nirik, more post-install notes then. thanks. reverse tap2click default. reverse dontzap default. Apr 02 10:04
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Khaytsus And maybe pull together/point to some of the new stuff in relation to Xorg and HAL, as I think some more has been pushed into HAL if I am right? Apr 02 10:05
nirik anyone have any other items they would like to bring up? Apr 02 10:05
nirik Khaytsus: yeah, input is there with evdev now... Apr 02 10:05
Khaytsus nirik: Yeah, so people with alterative input devices or want to tweak it, the process has changed Apr 02 10:06
Khaytsus I think the typical user scenarios "just work" but there are edge cases or special configurations.. Apr 02 10:06
nirik yep. Although gsynaptics and synclient and xinput work fine. Apr 02 10:06
Khaytsus Which is good, no more sshmconfig tomfoolery Apr 02 10:07
nirik yeah, especially as it's insecure. :) Apr 02 10:07
nirik ok, if no one has anything more, will go ahead and close out the meeting? Apr 02 10:08
roguedaemon i guess thats a yes Apr 02 10:09
nirik or yes thats a no. or something. ;) Apr 02 10:09
nirik thanks for coming everyone! Apr 02 10:09
---nirik has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule Apr 02 10:10

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