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zodbot Meeting started Thu Sep 9 23:57:58 2010 UTC. The chair is jadudm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:57
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:57
jadudm If I knew more about zodbot, I'd add other chairs. But, I don't. 16:58
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jadudm #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/HCD/Website_Testing_Resources 16:58
jadudm #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/HCD/Website_Testing_Needs 16:58
jadudm #link Website_redesign_2009_requirements#Tasks 16:58
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mizmo jadudm, i'd pull up the wiki page on the meeting bot but, the wiki is down :( 17:00
mizmo which might cause some problems here too 17:00
mizmo (all the mockups are on it :( ) 17:00
jadudm The wiki page came up for me. Do you mean fp.org/wiki is down? 17:00
mizmo yeh 17:00
mizmo the fpo wiki is down 17:00
jadudm Oops. See what you mean. 17:01
jadudm Perhaps it was cached. 17:01
jadudm MURPHY STRIKES. 17:01
khane dun dun dun 17:01
jadudm Well, this page is in my browser (Website_redesign_2009_requirements#Tasks) 17:01
kauffmj lol 17:01
mizmo so the fedora wiki is in a planned outage and will be out for 2 hours 17:01
jadudm Should I stick it in an etherpad for us to see for the time being? 17:01
mizmo they just took it down 17:01
jadudm Awesome! 17:01
mizmo :-/ 17:01
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mizmo i think smooge is going to try to bring it back up for us though 17:02
jadudm IN SOVIET FEDORA, WEBSITE COMES UP FOR YOU 17:02
mizmo heh 17:02
jadudm I pasted the website redesign 2009 requirements here: http://openetherpad.org/8CQ0kocfmC 17:03
mizmo awesome 17:03
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jadudm I must have caught it just before it went down. So. Would you like a quick intro from who is working with you? Or, shall we take it as a given that there's a group from Allegheny here? 17:04
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mizmo whatever works! 17:04
jadudm Would the Allegheny crew mind pasting in a link note with a pointer to your user pages on the rockalypse wiki? 17:05
mizmo sijis_vacation <= is on vacation, he is our main developer on the project, and Jef (who is normally in here as Schendje) is in the netherlands so he's probably sleeping now :) 17:05
* mizmo <= Máirín Duffy, fedora design team lead & Red Hat interaction designer 17:05
jadudm #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Jadudm 17:05
jadudm I'm Matt. 17:05
kauffmj #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Kauffmj 17:05
khane http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Khane 17:05
kauffmj I'm Jonathan Miller Kauffman. 17:05
khane I'm Evan 17:05
hildebe #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Hildebe 17:05
hildebe I'm Eric Hildebrand 17:06
yaworsw http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Yaworsw 17:06
jadudm khane: the #link tells zodbot to include it in the transcript all special-like. 17:06
* johnsog <- #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Johnsog 17:06
khane ah 17:06
johnsog I'm Genevieve Johnson 17:06
rdcrng #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Rad 17:06
keepd I'm Jamie Keep: http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Keepd 17:06
mizmo yaworsw, where is salamanca? im from westerlo ny 17:06
yaworsw #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Yaworsw 17:07
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jadudm mfody: just dropping pointers to our user pages on the wiki. 17:07
yaworsw its about an hour and a half south of buffalo 17:07
mizmo ah okay 17:07
mizmo (westerlo is an hour+ south west of albany) 17:07
yaworsw sorry my wiki page is pretty bare at this point i'll make sure to update it much more soon 17:07
mizmo id show you my fedora wiki page but... :-p 17:08
yaworsw complete other side ha 17:08
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mizmo yeh my bro went to geneseo though so ive driven out your way sort of before 17:08
jadudm Cool. That serves as an attendance of sorts, too. :) 17:09
mizmo have any of you heard of / used Fedora before? 17:09
yaworsw haha 17:09
jadudm (We'll catch Matt and Sam before we're done.) 17:09
rdcrng I have been using it for 3 years. 17:09
rosss I'm here 17:09
mizmo wow awesome 17:09
kauffmj i used it once 17:09
keepd Sams here 17:09
jadudm #link http://wiki.rockalypse.org/User:Rosss 17:09
hildebe I have it Virtualboxed, yeah 17:09
johnsog mismo: i have worked with fedora last semester in a class with jadudm 17:09
mizmo rdcrng, i really like your user page lol 17:09
yaworsw i only use it in the labs at school but i have ubuntu installed on my desktop... i just need a monitor for it now lol 17:10
rdcrng Lol, thanks. Don't really know how to make intro pages. 17:10
jadudm We have a pretty savvy bunch overall, in one form or another. 17:11
rdcrng And here's my life story kind of pages aren't my favorite. 17:11
jadudm I'm not 100% sure how best to run the meeting, but we'll learn. 17:11
jadudm I guess I can say that we're keen to do our first round of learning on usability testing on the Fedora website, and I think we've got a fairly high degree of overlap between our observations and your top ten list. 17:12
mizmo oooh the wiki is back up i think 17:12
mizmo oh okay great 17:12
* jadudm does a wiki jig 17:12
mizmo well can you walk me through your process so far? 17:12
yaworsw could you post the like the link to the wiki where we put our notes from yesterdays class? 17:12
jadudm I think I did at the top. I'll repeat them: 17:12
khane #http://wiki.rockalypse.org/HCD/Website_Testing_Needs 17:12
jadudm Ah, thanks. 17:12
yaworsw ah that was before i got here 17:13
jadudm And the top ten from mizmo: Website_redesign_2009_requirements#Tasks 17:13
jadudm I think we missed focusing on that in our conversation. 17:13
jadudm Anyone want to take a stab at our process so far? 17:13
mizmo it looks like you started with a whiteboard discussion - http://wiki.rockalypse.org/HCD/Website_Testing_Resources 17:14
khane we all pretty much agreed on no 1 from mizmo's list, that was a big part of our discussion 17:15
mizmo and did you look at the existing www.fedoraproject.org? 17:15
jadudm Right. Our process was first to identify resources that would help us with doing testing, and that morphed into discussion of the fp.o site. 17:15
yaworsw the redesign looks much better imo 17:15
quaid BTW, I threw a late and slightly random insight-driven email on the related thread on the mailing list: 17:15
quaid #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2010-September/008564.html 17:16
jadudm Our next step was to discuss with you needs/directions/focus. 17:16
* quaid leaves that for later and returns to le lurk 17:16
jadudm Our next step will then be to immerse ourselves in literature regarding testing, and start cutting our teeth. 17:17
mizmo okay cool 17:17
jadudm We can easily divide into groups of 3/3/4, having 10 people. 17:17
mizmo each group tests a chunk of the redesign? 17:17
jadudm Exactly. 17:17
mizmo okay cool 17:17
jadudm (btw, team: dive in wherever/whenever.) 17:18
quaid jadudm: coincidentally, we need some of that "about testing" material for the "Practical OSS Exploration" textbook - I'd like a feed of your reading/research list as it becomes available. 17:18
keepd *dives 17:18
mizmo it's irc, it's supposed to be funny & chatty lol 17:18
khane well, what are 3 areas that you feel need the most work? 17:18
* quaid hides mizmo's PSP 17:18
mizmo khane, in the redesigns? 17:18
khane yea 17:18
mizmo hmm let me think 17:18
mizmo so i know the download pages still need a lot of work 17:19
mizmo we have some folks who are .... picky.... and quite particular 17:19
khane haha 17:19
khane well, hopefully we won't dissapoint 17:19
* jadudm looks at rdcrng 17:19
rdcrng Yeah no kidding, we *almost* had a heated debate about it already. 17:19
mizmo so we did a big redesign of the download pages in our current template - it was released last may 17:19
mizmo and i literally got hate mail over the bittorrent link being hard to find :-p 17:20
mizmo whoops 17:20
khane we looked at the mockup pretty in-depth 17:20
mizmo i know there are some cases like that we're probably missing still 17:20
mizmo i did a blog post on it but haven't revisited those pages yet 17:20
jadudm do you consider download to be a space where you're happy with the design, or would you like us to put it through the paces? 17:20
mizmo oh please put it through the paces 17:20
mizmo we must be missing things 17:20
mizmo we were pretty aggressive in simplifying it 17:21
mizmo we ended up doing a patch a couple days after release for bittorrent 17:21
mizmo i think there are other things folks are sitll a bit ornery about in those pages 17:21
mizmo so 17:21
mizmo #1 is the download pages, i think they can still use work 17:21
mizmo #2 i would say is the visual design 17:21
yaworsw the more that i look at the features + screenshots page the more i feel like there is an overloading amount of information being thrown at the user 17:22
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mizmo i think some of the issues with the visual design - well, i'm trying to appeal to fedora's (rather recently defined) target user 17:22
mizmo yaworsw, (that was going to be my #3 ) :) 17:22
mizmo User_base 17:22
yaworsw i like that it gives options to read more for everything but there sure are an aweful lot of options 17:22
mizmo thats the target user definition 17:22
jadudm #link User_base 17:22
khane i think for our purposes we're going to try and see if we can simplify as much as possible 17:23
jadudm #info target user base for the website redesign 17:23
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mizmo some folks have given me feedback such that maybe this design is too corporate 17:23
jadudm khane: or, more specifically, see what kinds of revisions come out of a testing process 17:23
mizmo (oh ps, for #1, here's the link to the blog post going over the problems with get.fpo) 17:24
smooge Hi. site should be working better 17:24
mizmo thanks smooge !! 17:24
jadudm smooge: that's awesome. thank you! 17:24
jadudm smooge: our timing for this meeting was Murphy-inspired w.r.t. downtime. Thanks for the help. 17:24
mizmo i did a blog post really recently about how older versions of the front page's visual design were seen as being too 'corporate' 17:24
keepd We discussed the idea of the design being too corporate and we were curious what exactly that meant. Is that a bad thing?? 17:24
mizmo http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/fedoraproject-org-redesign-update/ <= you can see the old vs. the new there 17:24
mizmo well 17:25
mizmo let me show you something 17:25
mizmo :) it's going to be funny but maybe slightly inappropriate so i apologize in advance 17:25
mizmo http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55201 17:25
mizmo this is some discussion on the latest design (the attempt at being less corporate) from the debian user forums 17:25
mizmo they are kinda bashing it :) 17:26
mizmo but keep in mind, look at debian.org to see where they are coming from too 17:26
mizmo there's a concern i think for authenticity 17:26
mizmo if the site looks too corporate, there are a few problem 17:26
mizmo #1 - people might assume fedora is not free (actually if you look at ubuntu.com they have a big ad either on the front or on the download page saying yes, yes it's really free) 17:26
jadudm Wow. 17:26
jadudm Do you own fireproof clothing? 17:27
mizmo hehe 17:27
mizmo i thought the mockup was hilarious though.... 17:27
mizmo theres a unicorn man or somehting 17:27
mizmo #2 - if the fedora site looks too corporate, we might lose some of our authenticity - you how indie bands sometimes make it big then they 'sell out' and their music isn't as good either, it's kind of watered down. i think there's a big concern about fedora being perceived that way 17:28
yaworsw well i think that getting the message out that it is free could be done in the same way ubuntu does it 17:28
yaworsw say it's free in big bold text 17:28
rdcrng Well, think that one of the problems of communities like Debian's is that they are almost impregnable by anyone who doesn't consider themselves a computer expert / geek. 17:28
mizmo #3 - we want people to realize they can dive in and help too. if things look too polished, people might think there's no place for them 17:28
rdcrng Truth is most people put themselves into the "computer challenged" category 17:29
* quaid notes that the word "free" is overly loaded in this context. 17:29
kauffmj wow, just like paper prototyping!!! 17:29
mizmo i dont know if you folks have heard of this, but i've seen it in action and it's true - if you try usability testing using pencil sketches vs polished mockups, people are less willing to be candid about the more polished design 17:29
quaid how about, "Yes, zero cost!"? 17:29
mizmo so if you have a more polished website - maybe folks think you don't need help or people to join 17:29
mizmo quaid, the problem with zero cost is folks who don't want the 'software freedom' message to be lost get a bit upset 17:29
rdcrng Free refers not only to cost 17:29
jadudm "a bit" upset 17:29
mizmo rdcrng, that's 100% true. 17:29
quaid mizmo: I mean, in reference to the costing confusion 17:30
rdcrng Free as in liberation from corporate hold over software 17:30
quaid that you said Ubuntu solved by saying, "yes, it's really free" (iirc) 17:30
mizmo quaid, oh i know. but that's why it's not a simple solution to do 17:30
mizmo quaid, they probably care less about that kind of flak than we do 17:30
yaworsw well i bet the website would lose a lot of it's corporate feel if we simply removed some of the gloss 17:30
rdcrng agree 17:31
quaid well, if we say, "It's 100% free. What does that really mean?!?" and link out to the 2 explanations, that might work :P 17:31
rdcrng the old website has the simplicity 17:31
rdcrng just needs some navigational improvement 17:31
yaworsw mizmo, what is your absolute favorite part of the website? 17:31
mizmo but the current website it also doesnt really explain what fedora is, rdcrng 17:31
jadudm yaworsw: good question. 17:31
mizmo yaworsw, the current site or the redesign? 17:31
yaworsw redesign 17:31
mizmo hmm 17:32
yaworsw i suppose you can say your favorite part of the current site too, that wouldn't hurt haha 17:32
mizmo i think probably my favorite part of the redesign is the slideshow on the front page 17:32
mizmo right now we don't have a space like that to really highlight the awesome things we do 17:33
mizmo theres some wiki pages, but i think wikis are a bit intimidating for folks just wanting to learn the basics about waht fedora is and what makes it cool 17:33
mizmo so i think the slideshow is a good opportunity to get lots of great content out there - in a scoped-out, limited space so it doesn't overrun the website or overcrowd it either 17:33
yaworsw ahh there is a website i know of that does a slideshow thing that looks really nice but i can't think of the url 17:34
hildebe what are the subjects of the other slides? 17:34
mizmo my favorite part of the current website - well, it's nice that it's slim in size and fast-loading, but that's been a constraint that's caused it to kind of suck in a lot of other ways 17:34
mizmo hildebe, we haven't fleshed them all out yet, but we have some samples, one sec 17:34
jadudm we'll all have fiber soon, so speed won't be an issue. 17:34
mizmo hildebe, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign/Mockups/Www.fpo#Slideshow_Banners 17:35
mizmo hildebe, those sample slides use an earlier template 17:35
yaworsw anyway where i was going with that question is i read a book on creativity professor jadud gave me, in the book there was a portion about a web designer. he said whenever he would get stuck designing a website we would remove his favorite part of the website and then try to move forward from there 17:35
mizmo but we were thinking maybe 5-6 slides: 1 to explain what fedora is, 1 to talk about our community, and 3 or 4 to highlight some interesting features 17:35
mizmo yaworsw, heh thats an intriguing idea 17:35
yaworsw is matt R here? 17:36
jadudm He had a meeting that he was afraid would run into the chat. 17:36
rdcrng hard to accept idea :D 17:36
jadudm he might not be. 17:36
yaworsw ah, he had some comments about the slideshow 17:37
hildebe I really think the slideshow is a great idea considering the target user, I don't think i could get behind the suggestion of removing it... 17:37
jadudm so, I'm going to bring us back around to our question. 17:37
mizmo rdcrng, i get where its coming from though. eg when i was designing the newer features mockup (i think the one in the wiki is a bit old at this point), i actually lost my source file and had to start from scratch for most of it, and i think it came out better for it 17:37
jadudm which is: what are the aspects of the site we're going to begin by testing. 17:37
jadudm it sounds like download is clearly an issue, and one of our teams should focus on that. 17:37
khane i say features as well 17:38
jadudm (we might try and cycle quickly through a couple of things, so we may hit more than 3 things... we're all experimenting with this process here) 17:38
jadudm khane: say a bit more? 17:38
* keepd Points that the Fedora Wiki down 17:38
mizmo well 17:38
khane it may not need as much work, but its important that we see what needs to be done 17:38
yaworsw hildebe: i agree but perhaps if we consider removing it we can find a better way to include that information. if we decide to remove it that does not mean that we can't decide to put it back 17:38
mizmo if i had to pick three things to test 17:38
mizmo that'd be most helpful at this point 17:38
mizmo i think probably they'd be 17:38
mizmo 1) the front page 17:38
mizmo 2) the downloads section of pages 17:38
mizmo 3) the community / join page 17:38
mizmo i think the features one is important to test too 17:39
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mizmo but its got a bit less meat to it i think 17:39
jadudm ok 17:39
mizmo our #1 task for users is downloading fedora and trying it out 17:39
mizmo our #2 getting access to support (but that design isn't ready yet :( ) 17:39
mizmo #3 what is fedora, what's it about <= good for front page testing 17:39
jadudm that was where I was going to suggest we ask some questions -- what tasks are we aiming to support 17:40
mizmo #4 - join fedora <= community/join page 17:40
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jadudm So, had you seen our revised question list? 17:42
rosss what needs refining in the community page? 17:42
jadudm http://wiki.rockalypse.org/HCD/Website_Testing_Needs 17:42
jadudm rosss: good question. 17:42
mizmo rosss, well looking at the mock - Wwwfpo-redesign-2010_7-community.png 17:43
khane probably something that expresses that fp would like help from anyone, and that anyone can provide useful information 17:43
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jadudm Oh, booger. There goes our logs. 17:43
jadudm I'll pull them from my client. 17:43
keepd Were DOOMED Zodbot down 17:43
khane oh noes! 17:43
mizmo our goal is for folks to read this page and learn that fedora's put together by a community, and for them to understand how they can help out, and consider helping out 17:43
mizmo ugh 17:43
yaworsw maybe just moving that blue thing to the top of the page would help with that 17:43
mizmo yaworsw, well let me tell you why we put it on the bottom hehe 17:44
yaworsw basically saying there are tons of things people can do to contribute, do you fit into one of these categories? 17:44
yaworsw allrighty 17:44
mizmo we felt like it'd be rude or abrupt to tell folks to pick a task and start working on fedora first thing 17:44
mizmo so we thought maybe some enticement to want to join before that might be good 17:45
mizmo but im not sure we fulfilled that either yet :( 17:45
jadudm mizmo: in the world of libraries, there's a classic tension between "search" and "browse" functionality. 17:45
yaworsw yeah that makes sense 17:45
mizmo it may not come off that way at all, though 17:45
keepd I'm not sure it would rude, I think it would pull people into the I can contribute mindset. At least that is what it is for me 17:45
mizmo for a lot of these things, 17:46
keepd be** 17:46
mizmo we'll take a guess, mock it up, and ask around 17:46
jadudm it might be that, in our exploration of the community space, we can test multiple scenarios with some people, and see if we can help answer more questions about how best to use that space. 17:46
mizmo a lot of times i do this via blog post or irc 17:46
mizmo i didnt do that for the rudeness of asking people to join question though :) 17:46
rdcrng maybe instead of "find your role..." it could be "here what these people do..." 17:46
rdcrng and it could go to the top 17:46
mizmo that sounds like a great idea jadudm 17:46
yaworsw maybe even replace the cartoon people with real people who do those jobs 17:46
mizmo rdcrng, yeh that might work! 17:46
mizmo i like that idea too ! 17:47
yaworsw sort of give the user the feeling that these really are real people doing this 17:47
rdcrng and all of those could lead to separate pages where in turn you're asked to join in that groups specific way 17:47
mizmo quaid, you'll be our model for content writer, right :) : ):) 17:47
mizmo today that section is this wiki page: 17:48
mizmo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join 17:48
* hildebe looks at quaid 17:48
jadudm :D 17:48
mizmo so here's the content writer one http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join#Content_Writer 17:48
mizmo we are de-wikifying with this mockup, lol 17:48
jadudm quaid doesn't use pencils, does he? 17:48
jadudm he uses Publican 17:48
mizmo hehe thats right 17:49
keepd defiantly needs the de-wikifying 17:49
yaworsw hmm what if we brought the slideshow to the community page and made the slides pictures of artists/writers/etc with a description of how average people can contribute 17:49
kauffmj that might work 17:50
yaworsw ofc then we lose the ability to display all of the potential roles at the same time 17:50
mizmo yaworsw, well we had a similar idea, I think schenjde has been working on the mockup for this - 17:50
mizmo to have interviews with a person in each role 17:50
mizmo similar to what we did here - 17:50
jadudm ooh... 17:50
mizmo http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ (scroll to the bottom) 17:50
mizmo now what we didn't consider was building that into a slide show 17:50
rdcrng mizmo, i like the interview idea 17:50
jadudm what about a short video interview with people in each role? 17:50
mizmo i think that's an awesome idea 17:50
mizmo right now spins loads up a random one (of two, lol) when you refresh the page 17:50
mizmo having a slideshow would be way better 17:50
mizmo jadudm, that's a great idea too! 17:51
jadudm all good ideas, all testable ideas 17:51
rdcrng ugh testing 17:51
yaworsw youtube fedora interviews = exposure = new users? 17:51
rdcrng just kidding 17:51
mizmo hehe 17:51
* jadudm thought rdcrng was kidding 17:51
mizmo yaworsw, i think so 17:51
mizmo i did a video on fedora 12 a while back 17:51
jadudm so, it sounds like we have two clear targets: downloads and community/onboarding 17:51
mizmo it got so many hits (something like 30k) that google kept emailing me to join their ad program 17:52
khane and we do have recording equipment 17:52
jadudm khane: EXACTLY 17:52
yaworsw haha 17:52
mizmo i dont know if its helpful 17:52
jadudm granted, doing video interviews involves a slightly different set of tricks 17:52
rdcrng maybe you guys could include a video of our class? 17:52
mizmo but an anthropology masters student studied fedora this past year 17:52
mizmo and she had a lot of infomration on our on-boarding process 17:52
mizmo rdcrng, that would be AWESOME 17:53
jadudm rdcrng: we could start with your life story 17:53
mizmo http://www.cyber-anthro.com/beta-an-exploration-of-fedora%E2%80%99s-online-open-source-development-community/ <= this is the anthropologists' report 17:53
khane haha 17:53
rdcrng haha 17:53
yaworsw lol 17:53
hildebe haha 17:53
kauffmj rofl 17:53
johnsog_ haha 17:53
mizmo rdcrng, your life story from your wiki user page needs to be an xcd comic 17:53
mizmo xkcd 17:53
jadudm That's awesome. I wonder if we can get her thesis 17:53
keepd I think Rdcrng should be the picture for people person on the blue bar 17:54
jadudm #action get thesis from diana [@] cyber-anthro.com 17:54
yaworsw #link http://www.cyber-anthro.com/beta-an-exploration-of-fedora%E2%80%99s-online-open-source-development-community/ 17:54
rdcrng i think we should stop here with how much exposure i get and talk about testable ideas 17:54
mizmo diana's report is a good example of how gathering data can really help with a design 17:54
jadudm :) 17:54
yaworsw professor jadud you are teaching a FS101 this semester aren't you? 17:55
jadudm mercy, yaworsw, I've got a reputation in this community 17:55
jadudm don't go runnin' around throwin out the 'p' word. 17:56
hildebe free test subjects? 17:56
jadudm i'm trying to fit in as a leet oss hacker 17:56
yaworsw lol 17:56
khane gotta be PC, its "participants" now 17:56
yaworsw sorry matt the black hat 17:56
rdcrng lol 17:57
jadudm yaworsw: yes. And, there might be other FS groups that would be willing/appropriate to work with us. 17:57
mizmo dont be too leet though, my first irc nick was in leet speek and i got laughed out of channels lol 17:57
kauffmj i could try to volunteer Cup's FS class, since i'm a peer leader 17:57
rdcrng maybe the FS course could be our "test subjects" 17:57
yaworsw mizmo are the mockups in HTML or are they just images at this point? 17:58
mizmo this kind of covers (i think) the kind of folks we're hoping to reach with the design, if that's of help: http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/sweet-caroline/#comment-7292 17:58
-!- jadudm is now known as leetjadudm 17:58
mizmo yaworsw, they are just flat mockups at this point 17:58
hildebe that's what I was going to suggest, I feel like they'd be closer to the target user than a pro like Radu 17:58
mizmo the source is up on the wiki page if they need to be manipulated 17:58
mizmo and if you folks want to try out different ideas im happy to whip out change-o versions of mockups for ya 17:58
* keepd acknowledges 1337jadudm as chair. 17:58
mizmo if you want to try your hand at it, they'll all inkcape svg files 17:58
mizmo inkscape that is 17:59
leetjadudm mizmo: my goal is that we cycle rapidly through to hi-fi prototyping, but the big priority will be to do the low-fi mockups and testing 17:59
mizmo okay cool 17:59
johnsog_ mizmo, is there any website usage data from the current fedora website? 17:59
mizmo some, one sec 17:59
mizmo so this is where you can access our awstats pages: http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/ 17:59
mizmo http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/fedoraproject.org/ 17:59
yaworsw #link http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/ 18:00
mizmo i did a survey for download methods too, one sec 18:00
leetjadudm looks like the kind of traffic I get on rockalypse.org 18:00
* leetjadudm coughs violently. 18:00
kauffmj # link http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/fedoraproject.org/ 18:00
rdcrng you wish :D 18:00
mizmo http://mairin.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/getting-fedora-survey-results/ 18:01
mizmo that was a survey of users' preferred download methods (note the subject bias - *current* fedora users, not necessarily from our target market) 18:01
mizmo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics 18:01
mizmo some general fedora project statistics are available there 18:01
leetjadudm 20% bittorrent 18:02
mizmo like how many total downloads, how many contributors, etc 18:02
yaworsw #link http://mairin.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/getting-fedora-survey-results/ 18:02
leetjadudm (is zodbot alive?) 18:02
rdcrng don't think so 18:02
mizmo leetjadudm, i think the admins put a bullet in its head 18:02
johnsog_ zodbot seems to be dead 18:02
leetjadudm s'ok. I'll pull things out by hand later. 18:02
keepd zodbot had an accident 18:02
leetjadudm keep using the syntax: it will make my life easier later. 18:02
mizmo one of the sites they pulled down made zodbot go boom 18:02
mizmo those are pretty much all the stats i know about 18:03
yaworsw i suppose we could just make a quick text parser to take out the links and actions and whatever else we need 18:03
mizmo we try to use open source methods of gathering stats 18:03
mizmo so we dont use anything fancy like omniture 18:03
leetjadudm CTRL-F will work, too. 18:03
yaworsw doh 18:03
leetjadudm So, actually, flipping through the convo, I see three obvious spaces that we all probably think are good places to test: 18:04
leetjadudm 1. downloads 18:04
leetjadudm 2. community/onboarding (+ athro data of überness) 18:04
leetjadudm 3. front page / goal/task routing 18:04
leetjadudm (eg. you hit the main page and want to download, is it easy, etc.) 18:04
rdcrng jonathan said yes 18:04
mizmo yep yep! 18:04
yaworsw saints are up 7-0 18:04
leetjadudm how many of you are in Alden? 18:04
kauffmj radu and i are in alden 103 18:05
johnsog_ there are 3 in 101 18:05
yaworsw i'm in the library 18:05
khane i'm in my house 18:05
* hildebe is at his apartment 18:05
keepd I'm in Alden 18:05
mfody im at my house 18:05
kauffmj where are you jamie?\ 18:05
keepd 101 18:05
leetjadudm i love irc 18:05
-!- leetjadudm is now known as l33tjadudm 18:06
mizmo you folks know about /me 18:06
rdcrng will take me a while to gert there 18:06
* mizmo is stuck in irc. help! get me out of there 18:06
rosss change your name to zodbot, make me feel safer 18:06
l33tjadudm :) 18:06
* hildebe helps mizmo get unstuck 18:06
l33tjadudm I suspect that's considered poor form on these channels 18:06
-!- mizmo is now known as zodbot 18:06
* keepd 1337 **cough** 18:06
* zodbot ate your logs for lunch 18:06
rosss thx 18:06
-!- l33tjadudm is now known as jadudm 18:06
zodbot yum yum 18:06
* zodbot burps 18:06
-!- zodbot is now known as mizmo 18:06
yaworsw oh snap 18:06
johnsog_ haha 18:07
jadudm you know, i've tried to have many a conversation with zodbot. 18:07
jadudm never have they been so entertaining. 18:07
kauffmj mizmo's a doppleganger 18:07
mizmo jadudm, yeh freenode threatens to kick you off in 30 seconds if you don't provide zodbot's nick password 18:07
jadudm sweet 18:07
mizmo nick theft is serious business on freenode 18:07
mizmo on efnet... they're enforced a bit... differently 18:07
mizmo :) 18:07
jadudm i introduced my freshman seminar to IRC this past week 18:07
jadudm a freenode op dropped into #allegheny because we all connected at once 18:08
yaworsw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr3S0ziqLus 18:08
mizmo ha nice 18:08
rdcrng that was our class 18:08
yaworsw sorry that took so long to find i think the joke is past at this point 18:08
mizmo heh that song rocks 18:08
rdcrng nice yaworsw 18:08
mizmo so 18:08
jadudm rdcrng: same difference 18:08
mizmo you folks have any more questions? 18:08
hildebe mizmo, you mentioned a fourth point for testing, "features" 18:09
mizmo ah right 18:09
mizmo let me pull upthe latest mockup, the one on the wiki is a couple versions old 18:09
mizmo https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/d/de/Wwwfpo-redesign-2010_1-features.png 18:09
mizmo the main feedback ive gotten on it is 18:09
rosss what is "tutorials" going to look like? 18:09
mizmo - wow awesome stuff! 18:10
mizmo - too long, didn't read "TL;DR" 18:10
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mizmo rosss, so if you look at the front page mockup - 18:10
* mizmo shuffles over to grab it 18:10
mizmo Wwwfpo-redesign-2010_1b-frontpage.png 18:10
mizmo k 18:10
mizmo so under the 'what can you do with fedora?' header 18:10
mizmo see there's the, turn your friends into the hulk thing? 18:11
mizmo the 'tutorials' page is meant to be a listing of all those tutorials 18:11
mizmo and that space onthe front page will randomly load one of them 18:11
yaworsw hahaha i just noticed the istockphoto watermarks on all the images 18:11
hildebe cool idea 18:11
-!- zodbot [~supybot@fedora/bot/zodbot] has joined #fedora-websites 18:11
mizmo the tutorials we have now are 18:11
mizmo Build beautiful color palettes for your home and wardrobe Agave 18:11
mizmo Access your favorite apps with one click custom desktop launchers Tutorial Completed 18:11
mizmo Get organized and build a personal database Gnote Tutorial Completed 18:12
mizmo the hulk one 18:12
khane I have to run, I have to do some comp research before my meeting tomorrow 18:12
rosss thanks 18:12
mizmo heh yeh, we mean to replace those with real fedora user photos 18:12
jadudm khane: thanks. we're wrapping up here. 18:12
khane night all 18:12
yaworsw night 18:12
mizmo later 18:12
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kauffmj goodbye khane 18:12
jadudm ok 18:13
mizmo tajidinabd, btw i just saw your tutorial content now, it's looking great 18:13
jadudm so. 18:13
jadudm i'd say that we've got stuff to pull apart tomorrow in class (as well as discuss readings), and we'll start drawing up battle plans and getting into things. 18:14
mizmo awesome :) 18:14
jadudm we'll use the mailing list (websites@) as well as this space to discuss things as we go. 18:14
jadudm so, we'll go into asnyc mode at this point, and I don't think that we'll try and do another group IRC chat, unless we decide it's useful/a good idea later 18:15
mizmo okie doke 18:15
mizmo do note im usually lurking in here during business hours for quick questions 18:15
jadudm any final comments from our end? 18:15
mizmo sometimes at night too 18:15
yaworsw i thought this was quite productive 18:15
mizmo yay 18:16
kauffmj a lucid conversation 18:16
jadudm righto 18:16
jadudm mizmo: thanks so much. 18:16
mizmo thank *you* all :) 18:16
mizmo im sure your work will be very helpful for fedora 18:16
rdcrng thanks mizmo and everyone else 18:17
yaworsw hopefully lol 18:17
mizmo we're really happy to have you all involved 18:17
rosss thanks, night all 18:17
jadudm well, i'm going to go do the reading for tomorrow at this point... so, thanks all for a good meeting, and i'll see you tomorrow 18:17
mizmo so welcome :) 18:17
mizmo later 18:17
johnsog_ thanks everyone 18:17
rdcrng night 18:17
johnsog_ bye 18:17
keepd night 18:17
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mfody bye 18:17
kauffmj good evening colleagues 18:17
yaworsw see most of you tomorow 18:17
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-!- mfody [~Matt@dynamic-acs-24-144-203-247.zoominternet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18
hildebe adios 18:18
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yaworsw hey 18:18
nb hi 18:18
yaworsw were you here for that whole convorsation 18:19
jadudm yaworsw: yes? 18:19
jadudm me? 18:19
yaworsw oh' 18:19
yaworsw just going to remind you to copy + paste 18:19
jadudm yep 18:19
jadudm :) 18:19
yaworsw lol 18:19
jadudm good call, though 18:19
yaworsw on see you tomorow 18:19
yaworsw ok* 18:19

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