From Fedora Project Wiki

< QA‎ | Meetings


People present (lines said)

  • jlaska (97)
  • adamw (70)
  • wwoods (41)
  • kparal (22)
  • lmacken (9)
  • Viking-Ice (7)
  • buggbot (3)
  • zodbot (3)
  • Oxf13 (1)



Previous meeting follow-up

  • FTBFS topic?

Team agreed milos jacubicek's ftbfs proposal is tabled until he comes back with more info.

  • Viking-Ice investigating creating a test case for bug#530452 ... and adding to F12 install matrix
  • preupgrade test updates

Per last weeks FESCO meeting on preupgrade, QA team took an action item to update the preupgrade test cases (QA:Testcase Preupgrade and QA:Testcase Preupgrade from older release). Fedora QA trac ticket#30 is tracking this update. User:rhe and User:Kparal have adding their thoughts to the issue.

Fedora 12, almost there ...

Reviewing final QA tasks prior to release


  • unresolved bug remains ... what's the plan?

Only remaining non-tracker bug is RHBZ #533621 Can't Boot After F12 b2 DVD Upgrade on sytem with RAID1 /boot. Adamw suggested this isshue should be removed from the blocker list, as the team previously agreed it wasn't a blocker (it's actually not about RAID /boot but about drive order changing between install and upgrade).


Jlaska asked the team to think about a method for dividing up remaining 22 common F12 bugs. Volunteers needed to help clear out the list of CommonBug? bugs needing notes.

Course of action is either ... DUD:

  1. Drop - Remove keyword CommonBugs
  2. Update - Already documented or addressed, add link to entry in bugzilla whiteboard
  3. Document - Document issue on Common_F12_bugs and add link to entry in bugzilla whiteboard

The current list:

Bug State Component Summary
RHBZ #533350 NEW anaconda Can't shrink encrypted partition
RHBZ #536705 NEW anaconda F-11/ppc -> F-12-RC4-ppc upgrade does not offer bootloader upgrade choice
RHBZ #480290 NEW kernel rndis downloads are awesome, but upload does not work or very slow.
RHBZ #533545 NEW preupgrade Fedora 11 preupgrade to F12/rawhide destroys grub on raid (warning about grub on RAID not displayed)
RHBZ #489907 ASSIGNED xorg-x11-drv-intel [KMS] Does not recover from DPMS standby with KMS enabled
RHBZ #531111 ASSIGNED xorg-x11-drv-intel REGRESSION : vmlinuz- - intel 855GM xorg freezing
RHBZ #527209 ASSIGNED kernel Large file transfers are killing BCM5906M tg3 Ethernet card
RHBZ #514000 ASSIGNED alsa-lib Aureon 5.1 MkII can't do 5.1 anymore
RHBZ #533392 ASSIGNED comps dracut-network not included in F-12-RC1 DVD install
RHBZ #533621 ASSIGNED anaconda Can't Boot After F12 b2 DVD Upgrade on sytem with RAID1 /boot
RHBZ #533533 MODIFIED anaconda Unbootable system if /boot sotware raid and GRUB installed in /boot instead of MBR
RHBZ #530541 ON_QA preupgrade Free space check on /boot not thorough enough
RHBZ #524808 CLOSED RAWHIDE kernel swiotlb should be enabled when VT-d setup fails
RHBZ #524417 CLOSED RAWHIDE anaconda Anaconda: /sbin/loader crash on kickstart installation
RHBZ #500808 CLOSED CURRENTRELEASE anaconda partitioning backtrace: removal of logical part
RHBZ #509632 CLOSED RAWHIDE anaconda (/dev/pts not mounted after boot) error creating child process
RHBZ #527506 CLOSED NOTABUG anaconda F-12 - ppc64.img does not boot on IBM Power5 system
RHBZ #530393 CLOSED RAWHIDE kernel tpm_tis 00:0a: tpm_transmit: tpm_send: error -62
RHBZ #484862 CLOSED DUPLICATE GConf2-dbus GConf2-dbus : Conflicts with other packages
RHBZ #528537 CLOSED RAWHIDE kernel fails to get kickstart file over nfs.
RHBZ #528222 CLOSED RAWHIDE initscripts LiveCD intermittently gets stuck during shutdown
RHBZ #527552 CLOSED ERRATA preupgrade GError and TypeError: Parsing primary.xml error: attributes construct error

There wasn't a lot of discussion in the meeting on volunteers or a strategy to help reduce the size of the list. Adamw noted he was confident in his ability to walk down the CommonBugs? list later today.

QA Retrospective

Let's hold a retrospective (e.g. post-mortem, release review etc...) next week. Please collect 1 or 2 ideas for things that when well, and the same for things that you'd like to see improved for Fedora 13. We will review and discuss during next weeks meeting.

jlaska will post email to the list after meeting to start discussion. Please feel free to respond with your input.

Over the next week, data will likely come back from Fedora 12 users for additional discussion items.

AutoQA update

wwoods updates

A lot of time spent wrestling preupgrade last week. However, the current tasks include finalizing the post-koji-build with several patches kparal found and merging private autoqa branch work.

Held a discussion with Fedora release engineering group last week around a strategy for ensuring no broken dependencies are released. The solution will involve the post-koji-build, in addition to a post-bodhi-update hook. Also discussed writing a test that checks added/dropped/changed dependencies against known requirements in the public repo(s).

Lmacken and wwoods talked about how best to detect updated bodhi packages. Lmacken provided an update AMQP message/QMF events. Wwoods discussed the JFDI-design philosophy that's behind a lot of AutoQA at the moment.

16:46:46 <jlaska> wwoods: are there aspects of the koji watcher that kparal can assist with ... if it relates to rpmguard or package sanity? 16:46:58 <wwoods> time is running short so probably it'll be a discussion about design rather than a demo of a prototype 16:47:54 <wwoods> kparal's suggestion about having autoqa have a way to run tests locally is probably the best path forward 16:48:17 <wwoods> once that's written we can make sure rpmguard works as expected *in parallel* with setting up the watcher on the autotest host 16:48:43 <kparal> perfect Plan for this week:

  1. Stop working on preupgrade
  2. add --local flag to autoqa
  3. polish rpmguard w/ kparal
  4. get watcher working
  5. test-enable rpmguard in production
  6. kparal suggested -- fix lots of issues we run into
  7. jlaska added -- success
  8. adamw asked -- profit?

kparal corrected the last sugguestion, with ... nope, world domination

kparal updates

Kparal updated the group on his AutoQA activities, which included several patches sent to

Kparal also identified several road blocks to participation and included several ideas for improving test development for newbies (see Out of that document jlaska has drafted an AutoQA Use Cases on the wiki: AutoQA_Use_Cases. Kparal asked for suggestions and contributions to the document.

Kparal noted that the autoqa-devel list is being used more and more I would say, so if anyone is interested in autoqa development, please subscribe.

Kparal finished, but indicated he'll have more progress once the large autoqa-0.3 changes in wwoods private branch are merged into master.

lili and rhe updates

User:liam, User:rhe and User:mgracik held their first meeting on Friday, November 13 where they discussed the DRAFT proposal for adding installation verification to autoqa. The proposal is starting to take shape at Is_anaconda_broken_proposal.


Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Upcoming QA events

  • 2009-11-17 - Fedora 12 GA
  • 2009-11-23 - Fedora 12 QA Retrospective discussion

Action items

  • jlaska will propose Common_F12_Bugs after meeting for bug#530541
  • jlaska to send request for retrospective feedback to fedora-test-list@

IRC Transcript

adamw #startmeeting 2009-11-16 Fedora QA meeting 16:01
zodbot Meeting started Mon Nov 16 16:01:18 2009 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at 16:01
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:01
adamw #topic gathering people 16:01
adamw who's here? 16:01
* Oxf13 16:01
* jlaska is half here 16:01
* kparal is here 16:01
adamw do we get to pick which half? 16:01
jlaska adamw: why not 16:02
adamw we'll take the top 16:02
jlaska hehe 16:02
adamw do we have a wwoods? 16:02
* Viking-Ice 50% here.. 16:03
wwoods you have nine and a half wwoodses 16:03
adamw hey viking 16:03
adamw oh wow, it's an army 16:03
wwoods more wwoods than you know what to do with 16:03
Viking-Ice .com 16:03
adamw alrighty 16:04
adamw #topic previous meeting follow-up 16:04
adamw so yeah, uh 16:04
adamw i'm winging this 16:04
adamw just a sec 16:04
jlaska adamw: apologies ... don't have any action items from last week ... pulling in the previous meeting tasks 16:04
adamw don't see any 16:05
jlaska we have a few that continue to carry over. .. not sure if we want to continue that ... or drop them from the list 16:05
adamw oh iswym 16:05
adamw yeah we should follow up on 2009-11-02 16:05
* jlaska looking at QA/Meetings/20091116 16:05
adamw point of order, btw: shouldn't that have been wwwwwwwwwvoods? 16:05
Viking-Ice Uhum Still "investigating" need to get of my lazy as and write the dam test case.. 16:06
wwoods adamw: ha! good point. I'll file a bug. 16:06
adamw still havn't heard from milos on the ftbfs topic 16:06
adamw i think we can stop carrying that one unless he comes back with it 16:07
jlaska sorry ... wrong channel 16:07
jlaska adamw: okay, sounds good, I'll drop from next weeks agenda 16:07
adamw not sure what was meant by 'preupgrade test cases' 16:07
jlaska I've got a link ... 16:08
adamw #agreed milos jacubicek's ftbfs proposal is tabled until he comes back with more 16:08
jlaska just wanted to follow-up from the FESCO meeting ... I've asked Hurry to take a peak at ensuring the existing preupgrade tests will capture the failure case identified this release 16:08
wwoods the existing preupgrade test cases didn't account for the fact that *most* users running preupgrade will have 3 kernel packages installed 16:09
jlaska wwoods: yeah 16:09
adamw ah, yeah, that. we should fix that. 16:09
jlaska Hurry and Kamil have some feedbackin the ticket now, I'll be replying later todya 16:09
jlaska today 16:10
adamw while we're at it, can we think of any other things real-world preupgrade usage would be likely to hit that we wouldn't recreate from a clean install? 16:10
jlaska of course ... others are welcome to 16:10
adamw (that we care about. so, not rpmfusion stuff.) 16:10
jlaska adamw: good topic ... can we move that down to the post-mortem prep? 16:10
adamw I'M RUNNING THIS MEETING DAMNIT! *froths at mouth* 16:10
adamw i mean, uh, yes of course :) 16:10
jlaska adamw: :) 16:11
adamw in that case...we're done with follow-up I guess 16:11
adamw did we miss anything anyone wanted to follow-up on from the last two weeks? 16:11
adamw ok 16:12
adamw #topic fedora 12: coming soon 16:12
kparal tomorrow, right? 16:12
adamw so, yeah, stickster asked me to let everyone know that since fedora 12 has no bugs, we're all fired 16:12
kparal :) 16:13
adamw it's been a blast, everyone 16:13
adamw :) 16:13
adamw yeah, tomorrow 16:13
wwoods hah. so let's delete this Common_F12_bugs page then 16:13
adamw yeah, that thing's completely wrong, i dunno what idiot wrotei t 16:13
adamw so yep, that's the common bugs page 16:13
adamw in case anyone isn't aware of the idea by now, we put common bugs onto it 16:14
adamw there's quite a lot of things that still need to be added 16:14
adamw jlaska, could you make with the Magic List? 16:14
jlaska QA/Meetings/20091116#Common_F12_Bugs 16:14
jlaska 22 bugs on the list 16:14
adamw shiny 16:15
jlaska I was hoping we could discuss a method to divide up the list 16:15
jlaska I'm happy to take the installer issues ... if people want to divide by component 16:15
jlaska there's too much on the list for just adamw to complete for tomorrow 16:15
adamw note that X-related ones may occasionally be actually already on the page - matej has been cleaning out whiteboard sections and shortening the commonbugs links as he thinks they're too long, so we may have to come up with a new standard and refine jlaska's search 16:15
jlaska so was curious if folks were interesting in pitching in a bug or 2 16:15
adamw well i wouldn't want to take anyone off other vital work 16:16
adamw e.g. if wwoods is still fixing up preupgrade that should take priority 16:16
adamw i could get through that list if necessary 16:16
wwoods so in the latest preupgrade update I referenced 16:16
jlaska wwoods: so that's the page we should link to from common_F12_Bugs as well? 16:17
wwoods so either that page needs a link to the commonbugs entry for F12 *or* the commonbugs entry for F12 needs to link to the part of that page that describes some ways to clean up /boot 16:17
wwoods your call 16:17
* jlaska nods 16:17
wwoods but yeah that needs to happen as soon as possible 16:17
adamw i, uh, don't see anything about /boot there? 16:17
wwoods that's the problem. 16:18
jlaska wwoods: I'd like to get my feet wet on Common_F12_Bugs ... I'll be happy to take that for after the meeting and send you a draft for comments 16:18
adamw oh, okay. gotcha :) 16:18
wwoods bug 530541 is probably the thing to examine 16:18
buggbot Bug medium, low, ---, skvidal, ON_QA, Free space check on /boot not thorough enough 16:18
wwoods jlaska: sounds good 16:19
jlaska #action jlaska will propose Common_F12_Bugs after meeting for bug#530541 16:19
jlaska I'll also get the RAID one while I'm at it 16:19
jlaska bug#533545 16:20
buggbot Bug high, low, ---, skvidal, NEW, Fedora 11 preupgrade to F12/rawhide destroys grub on raid (warning about grub on RAID not displayed) 16:20
adamw so, also on the list is cleaning F12Blocker 16:21
wwoods jlaska: in theory that should be fixed, but the fact that /boot-RAID requires a wired network connection should be documented, yeah 16:21
jlaska wwoods: okay 16:21
adamw only remains on the blocker list 16:22
buggbot Bug 533621: high, low, ---, rvykydal, ASSIGNED, Can't Boot After F12 b2 DVD Upgrade on sytem with RAID1 /boot 16:22
adamw and we should drop it, as we agreed it wasn't a blocker (it's actually not about RAID /boot but about drive order changing between install and upgrade 16:22
adamw so shall we go ahead and drop it from the list? 16:22
jlaska are we seeing a lot of +1 's on that issue? 16:23
adamw not obviously 16:23
jlaska okay 16:23
adamw there may be other bugs filed which are actually dupes of it, but then i'd expect anaconda triage to be catching them, they usually do 16:24
jlaska I guess it's going off the list, since we're not respinning 16:24
adamw heh 16:24
jlaska is there something to document here? 16:24
adamw sure, we can throw in a commonbugs notice based on radek's most recent comment 16:25
jlaska oh it's tagged already 16:26
jlaska let's drop it 16:26
adamw k 16:26
adamw dropped 16:26
adamw now the only remaining bugs on the list are themselves metabugs: so do we drop 'em from the dependencies and close f12blocker? 16:26
jlaska hmmm ... I don't recall 16:27
jlaska is that one of the release actions for bugzappers 16:27
wwoods move to F13Blocker? 16:27
kparal should they be moved to f13blocker? 16:27
kparal ouch 16:27
adamw wwoods wins 16:27
adamw seems logical 16:27
kparal or F13Alpha? 16:28
adamw no, the alpha blocker list does not necessarily contain everything on the final release blocker list 16:28
* jlaska now back to 100% for qa meeting 16:29
adamw trackers do seem to be listed under bugzappers housekeeping 16:30
adamw 16:30
adamw so i'll probably punt that to tomorrow's bugzappers meeting 16:30
adamw and we'll do the cleanup there 16:30
wwoods typically in the past we just moved everything to the blocker/target for the next release 16:30
wwoods but yeah, the bugzappers will discuss/decide on that 16:31
jlaska #info discuss plan for F12 tracking bugs in Tuesday bugzapper meeting 16:31
adamw jlaska: you wanna take over now? it's your agenda 16:31
jlaska adamw: sure ... but I'll need prodding to move things along :) 16:32
adamw #chair jlaska 16:32
zodbot Current chairs: adamw jlaska 16:32
jlaska so we don't keep kparal too late! 16:32
adamw go for it 16:32
adamw onto 'qa retrospective heads up' 16:32
jlaska Just a heads up kind of topic 16:33
jlaska there may be a release-wide retrospective meeting 16:33
kparal kparal: I won't be late. I am attending Caribbean night tonight :) 16:33
jlaska kparal: oh that's right :) 16:33
jlaska so ... I wanted to more just get the brains moving around what worked and what didn't for F-12 16:33
jlaska you may recall we did this for F-11, and previous releases 16:34
jlaska I was planning to kick this off to the list tomorrow inviting comments 16:34
jlaska for discussion in next weeks meeting 16:34
jlaska are there any thoughts to share on a good method for collecting the feedback for discussion next week? 16:34
jlaska Ideally, I'd like to get 1-2 things that people thought went well, along with 1-2 things that need improvement ... from each of us 16:35
jlaska and of course from folks who don't regularly attend the meeting 16:35
jlaska I know that more issues will surface as bug reports come in from F-12 ... but I also wanted to do this soon after release so things are still fresh in your minds 16:35
kparal we can sum it up on some wiki page and copy comments from mailing list there so they won't get lost 16:36
jlaska kparal: good tip, we did that with the F-11 test day survey ... I can try that again for this 16:36
jlaska okay ... well, I'd like to collect and use this feedback to build some common goals for F-13 16:37
jlaska so if folks have thoughts on a good approach to solicit feedback, please catch me after the meeting 16:37
jlaska #action jlaska to send request for retrospective feedback to fedora-test-list@ 16:38
jlaska okay ... it's that time again ... 16:38
jlaska #topic AutoQA update - wwoods 16:38
jlaska wwoods: you want to start things off ... and then we'll jump over to kparal after 16:39
wwoods haven't really had a lot of time for autoqa stuff in the past week because of preupgrade, but 16:39
wwoods we're trying to get the post-koji-build hook finalized and tested so that we can start running post-build tests 16:39
* jlaska looks at the preupgrade elephant 16:39
wwoods we've got the code written and a test system ready, just need some free time 16:40
wwoods I also talked with the rel-eng guys about how we can prevent broken deps in the repos 16:40
wwoods we identified the need for a post-bodhi-update hook 16:40
lmacken bodhi v2.0 will have it :) 16:40
wwoods and talked about writing a test that checks added/dropped/changed dependencies against known requirements in the public repo(s) 16:41
lmacken wwoods: by 'hook' do you mean 'AMQP message/QMF event'? 16:41
wwoods really the only forward progress last week was a couple of issues with the post-koji-build stuff that kparal found 16:42
lmacken because bodhi 2 will be plugin driven, but also AMQP integrated 16:42
wwoods lmacken: maybe later, yes, but at the moment we're using the simplest possible watcher scripts 16:42
wwoods so whatever exists now - polling an RPC / RSS feed / whatever 16:42
wwoods is what the initial design will use 16:42
wwoods getting the watcher working ASAP allows us to start writing the hook and tests immediately 16:43
wwoods and later we can replace the watcher with a nice messagebus listener 16:43
lmacken Moksha comes with an AMQP 16:44
lmacken message consumer API :) 16:44
wwoods that's cool, but I need to pick your brain about what bodhi provides today 16:44
lmacken in it's current state, for post-update hooks? 16:44
lmacken nothing. 16:44
lmacken RSS feeds 16:44
wwoods okay - we'll write a watcher script that polls the feed and launches tests when new items appear 16:44
lmacken ok, cool. 16:45
wwoods that's how all the other watchers currently work. 16:45
wwoods inelegant but JFDI-compliant 16:45
jlaska wwoods: you need a theme for these .... 16:45
jlaska bingo JFDI :) 16:45
wwoods anyway I *really* want to get this preupgrade stuff cleared up so that we can have some time to work on post-build tests 16:46
wwoods wanna be able to talk to packagers/devs about that at FUDCon 16:46
jlaska wwoods: are there aspects of the koji watcher that kparal can assist with ... if it relates to rpmguard or package sanity? 16:46
wwoods time is running short so probably it'll be a discussion about design rather than a demo of a prototype 16:46
wwoods kparal's suggestion about having autoqa have a way to run tests locally is probably the best path forward 16:47
wwoods once that's written we can make sure rpmguard works as expected *in parallel* with setting up the watcher on the autotest host 16:48
kparal perfect 16:48
wwoods so: 1) wwoods adds --local flag to autoqa, 2+3) polish rpmguard and get watcher working, 4) test-enable rpmguard "in production" (i.e. for all new builds, sending out public notices, etc) 16:49
wwoods that's the basic plan, I think 16:49
wwoods but item 0) is: fix preupgrade for F12 16:50
kparal 5) fix lots of issue we ran into 16:50
kparal *issues 16:50
jlaska kparal: 6) success 16:50
adamw 7) profit? 16:50
kparal nope, world domination 16:50
jlaska aha 16:50
kparal so, some updates from me? :) 16:51
jlaska wwoods: anything else on your end? 16:51
wwoods nope! kparal: go for it 16:51
jlaska #topic AutoQA update - kparal 16:51
kparal Well, I have sent a few patches for the autoqa, as wwoods noted. You can see them in autoqa-devel list. 16:51
kparal I have also posted a proposal how to make test development easier for new developers: 16:51
kparal Out of that document jlaska has drafted an AutoQA Use Cases on the wiki: AutoQA_Use_Cases 16:52
kparal If you have some suggestion, please contribute. 16:52
kparal The autoqa-devel list is being used more and more I would say, so if anyone is interested in autoqa development, subscribe. James also proposed that our Trac ticket changes could be sent to autoqa-devel to keep people in loop, let's see what they say. 16:52
jlaska wasn't sure ... I could see how it might be noise for some folks 16:52
jlaska but if it's helpful, it's an easy change to make 16:53
kparal hopefully they will tell us 16:53
kparal so that's it for this week, but after wwoods merges his work back to master, be prepared for more :) 16:54
jlaska kparal: looking forward to it! 16:54
jlaska #topic AutoQA update - misc 16:55
jlaska I had an extra bullet here for some misc autoqa stuff 16:55
jlaska some of which was already mentioned, so I'll be brief 16:55
jlaska #info Package autotest - 16:55
jlaska thanks to kparal for help testing the updated packages, I think I'm happy with where things are. They don't fully pass rpmlint at this point, but that's not something I understood as a goal for this first phase 16:56
jlaska I'm planning to catch up w/ Oxf13 or mmcgrath this week for guidance on how to get those updated packages into fedora-infra yum repo 16:56
jlaska #info Packaging autoqa - 16:56
jlaska No new updates on that front ... I'll revisit this once wwoods is happy with the big changes in the private branch 16:57
jlaska it basically works in current git repo ... so not expecting surprises 16:57
jlaska #info AutoQA Use cases draft - AutoQA_Use_Cases 16:57
jlaska This last point kparal noted above 16:57
kparal sorry for stealing :) 16:57
jlaska not at all, thanks for bringing it up 16:58
jlaska I thought this might help shape the discussion for what tasks need completing for the upcoming FUDCon discussion 16:58
jlaska kparal's patch around running autoqa locally helped flesh this out for me. 16:58
jlaska in that we may not have fully outlined how we expect people to interact (or not interact) with the system 16:58
jlaska so I'll be trying to add more data points and the poking kparal and wwoods for guidance on what I'm missing 16:59
jlaska okay ... let's move to open discussion 16:59
jlaska #topic Open discussion - <your topic here> 16:59
jlaska quick 15 seconds and we'll have a <= 1hr meeting 16:59
jlaska :) 16:59
adamw nada! 16:59
jlaska any topics not covered in the agenda today? 17:00
Viking-Ice Fedora no longer runs on the number one supercomputer in the world 17:00
Viking-Ice updated Is_Fedora_For_Me accordingly 17:00
Viking-Ice Jaguar kicked Roadrunner to second place 17:00
kparal interesting 17:00
jlaska heh, "the number two supercomputer" 17:00
jlaska unless there are any other topics ... I'll close out the meeting in 60 seconds 17:01
Viking-Ice Jaguar runs Cray Linux Environment encase ye are wondering.. 17:01
jlaska Alrighty gang ... folks can keep discussing on #fedora-qa or the list of course 17:02
jlaska but we'll call it a wrap for today 17:02
jlaska thanks for your time and adamw for kicking things off 17:02
jlaska #endmeeting 17:03

Generated by 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!