QA/Meetings/20120611

Attendees

• adamw (124)
• tflink (54)
• j_dulaney (23)
• kparal (12)
• nirik (8)
• maxamillion (7)
• zodbot (4)
• strace (2)
• lmacken (2)
• mkrizek (2)
• jskladan (1)
• Cerlyn (1)
• robatino (1)
• pschindl (1)

Agenda

• Previous meeting follow-up
• Fedora 18 check-in
• Bugzilla upgrade work
• AutoQA update
• Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

• adamw to review F17 retrospective and come up with an action plan - not done yet, but he's working on it
• adamw to work with rbergeron to make sure housekeeping gets done for f16/f17/f18 - also not complete; j_dulaney reported from SELF that spot will handle EOL bugs

Fedora 18 check-in

• The current F18 feature list contains no features we find particularly sensitive from a QA standpoint aside from the new anaconda UI. other features to keep an eye on are the package group re-organization, /tmp-on-tmpfs and the kerberos changes

Bugzilla upgrade work

• tflink will ensure the blocker bug tracker page is fixed for new bugzilla, it may be turned into a static HTML page rather than part of mediawiki
• We aren't aware of any other QA scripts that need fixing, and Bodhi is already dealt with

AutoQA update

• Apart from some minor movement on RATS, nothing significant

Open floor

• j_dulaney noted that there was further discussion of ARM as a primary arch at SELF, and asked for it to be added to the agenda for the next meeting

Action items

• adamw to review F17 retrospective and come up with an action plan
• adamw to work with rbergeron to make sure housekeeping gets done for f16/f17/f18
• tflink to fix up blocker bug page for new bugzilla, probably as fedora-hosted static HTML rather than in MW
• tflink to set up QA git account

IRC Log

adamw	#startmeeting fedora-qa	15:03
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Jun 11 15:03:21 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:03
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:03
adamw	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:03
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:03
adamw	#topic roll call	15:03
adamw	who's around for some qa meetage?	15:03
* pschindl is here		15:03
* mkrizek is here		15:04
* maxamillion is here		15:04
* tflink is here		15:04
* strace is here		15:04
* nirik is lurking		15:04
* jskladan lurking		15:05
* Cerlyn is here		15:05
* kparal around		15:05
adamw	excellent...then i shall UNLEASH THE HOUNDS	15:05
* kparal flees		15:06
adamw	#topic previous meeting review	15:06
adamw	#topic previous meeting follow-up	15:06
adamw	sigh.	15:06
adamw	#chair kparal tflink	15:06
zodbot	Current chairs: adamw kparal tflink	15:06
adamw	here, use this chair to fend off the hounds...if you can.	15:06
adamw	#info adamw to review F17 retrospective and come up with an action plan	15:06
adamw	didn't get this done yet; as you probably saw on friday i got up to clearing through the f16 trac tickets	15:07
* tflink grabs a whip and strikes a lion/hound taming pose		15:07
adamw	so i'm working around to it	15:07
adamw	any questions/notes/personal insults?	15:07
adamw	#info adamw to work with rbergeron to make sure housekeeping gets done for f16/f17/f18	15:08
adamw	oh looky, another one i didn't do yet! well, robyn and i have chatted about housekeeping a bit, but not complete yet.	15:08
adamw	#info neither retrospective nor housekeeping tasks are complete yet, but adamw is working on both	15:09
adamw	#action adamw to review F17 retrospective and come up with an action plan	15:09
adamw	#action adamw to work with rbergeron to make sure housekeeping gets done for f16/f17/f18	15:09
adamw	i'll just throw 'em back on there for next week.	15:09
adamw	anything else?	15:09
maxamillion	not that I can think of :)	15:10
adamw	okely dokely, moving on	15:10
adamw	#topic Fedora 18 check-in	15:11
adamw	probably nothing doing here, but i thought we'd zoom by just in case	15:11
maxamillion	check-in?	15:11
adamw	just a general f18 topic	15:11
adamw	first on the list, any news on anaconda?, i think the answer's no.	15:11
adamw	second, check through f18 features - seemed a good thing to do quickly in a meeting, to see if there's anything else scary on the f18 agenda yet	15:12
adamw	https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/FeatureList	15:13
adamw	anyone see anything that leaps out?	15:13
maxamillion	depends on your defenition of scary I suppose	15:13
adamw	'things that will require love and care to make sure they bleedin' well work and don't screw up release validation'	15:13
adamw	those kerberos changes, for e.g., look like the sort of thing that might break remote login...	15:14
maxamillion	I'll be partaking in the openshift origin efforts, we'd like to have a test day once we're at that point in the release cycle	15:14
maxamillion	ah, rgr	15:14
strace	I will be helping with OpenShift Origin also	15:14
adamw	cool. that would be handled fine by a test day, yeah.	15:14
* tflink doesn't see anything else that jumps out as potentially problematic		15:15
maxamillion	tflink: +1	15:15
adamw	there's usermode migration', but that shouldn't be horrible, most central stuff is PK already and we understand it well enough that hopefully nothing will break in migration..	15:16
adamw	so yeah, looks like so far, no really scary features outside of anaconda new UI.	15:16
* j_dulaney waves		15:16
tflink	the package group changes could be interesting but that page is a little light on the details	15:16
* j_dulaney is still recovering from SELF		15:17
adamw	tflink: yeah, that's notting's baby	15:17
adamw	hi dulaney	15:17
adamw	tflink: i think he's thinking more about the post-install, 'groups you see in packagekit' side, but i agree it's light on detail	15:17
tflink	it's mostly the upgrade stuff that sounds like it could be interesting	15:19
* j_dulaney wonders about the specific topic here		15:19
adamw	j_dulaney: right, sorry - we're reviewing the F18 feature list at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/FeatureList	15:19
tflink	"Users who install Fedora 18 and later upgrade will automatically get group changes for the groups that they have installed."	15:19
adamw	just checking through to make sure we don't see anything scary from a QA perspective there	15:19
j_dulaney	RGR	15:19
adamw	tflink: ah, nice catch. yeah, that'll be worth testing.	15:19
adamw	though it sounds like it mostly affects 19.	15:19
tflink	although I'm not clear if that applies to people upgrading to F18 or from F18	15:20
adamw	hey, that's the first time i officially referred to fedora 19 anywhere. *raises small flag*	15:20
adamw	to me it reads like it applies to upgrades from 18->19 and later.	15:20
tflink	that would make more sense, regardless of the phrasing	15:20
adamw	#agreed the current F18 feature list contains no features we find particularly sensitive from a QA standpoint aside from the new anaconda UI. other features to keep an eye on are the package group re-organization, /tmp-on-tmpfs and the kerberos changes.	15:22
j_dulaney	RPM upgrade may need some poking?	15:23
j_dulaney	Or should that be fine?	15:23
adamw	that's the kind of thing that everyone will be testing all the time, unavoidably	15:23
j_dulaney	Ah	15:23
adamw	so it likely doesn't need any special poking - we should catch anything that comes up	15:23
j_dulaney	Same with user mode migration, I imagine?	15:23
adamw	broadly, yeah, and given that we've been converting things to PK for years, we ought to have the hang of it by now.	15:24
adamw	next thing on the list was 'retrospective tasks', if i'd done them yet, but i haven't. so, we'll skip that!	15:25
adamw	#topic Bugzilla upgrade work	15:25
adamw	okay, so this is a callback to something that came up during f17 final validation - see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20120514	15:26
adamw	bugzilla got a big version upgrade late in the f17 cycle, and that has impacts on several things that we use in QA. tflink provided a list and we said we'd work on fixing up anything that needs fixing after f17 was done. well, f17 is done now =)	15:26
adamw	tflink: shall we take the things on the list one at a time?	15:26
tflink	adamw: works for me	15:27
adamw	#topic Bugzilla upgrade work - Blocker wiki page will no longer work	15:27
adamw	so, with the BZ upgrade, the script that updates https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Current_Release_Blockers is broken	15:28
adamw	tflink and I updated it manually till we were done with f17, but now it's just stuck	15:28
adamw	had you had some ideas here, tflink?	15:28
tflink	I've looked at the script a little bit and have fixed a few things but it's not done yet	15:28
tflink	in the past, we've talked about possible other solutions for tracking blockers that don't rely on MW or scripts being run	15:28
tflink	I figure that it's a good time to think about that since our previous solution isn't working, anyways	15:29
adamw	what's on the list?	15:29
tflink	adamw: the list?	15:29
nirik	there's a new python-bugzilla.	15:30
nirik	needs mucho testing by everyone. ;)	15:30
adamw	tflink: the list of alternative solutions.	15:30
tflink	nirik: yeah but the scripts using it still need to be updated AFAIK	15:30
tflink	but it isn't crashing as much any more - still hitting proxy errors last I tried, though	15:30
tflink	adamw: anything we do would pretty much be custom	15:31
adamw	you have any ideas you like? throw me a bone =)	15:31
tflink	the options would be to keep it scripted and on the wiki, keep it scripted and generate static html or start making it a more dynamic webapp that can do better tracking	15:31
tflink	like keep track of previous blockers, offer different filters of the bugs to view etc.	15:31
* tflink is just not sure how much interest there is and whether it would be worth the time needed to write such an app		15:32
j_dulaney	It would be cool, but I don't think worth the effort	15:33
adamw	has anyone felt like they wished the current blocker page could do more?	15:33
adamw	i guess i'm with dulaney, it seems to do the job as is	15:33
mkrizek	+1	15:33
tflink	it might be worth the effort to switch to HTML generation instead of MW	15:34
adamw	on the idea that it's more robust?	15:34
tflink	less wonky syntax	15:34
tflink	in theory	15:34
adamw	i guess it wouldn't be a huge effort?	15:35
tflink	we could also get some new features without worrying about app hosting or a db	15:35
tflink	ie build the filters into the HTML	15:35
* nirik might suggest running it in fedora infrastructure... that way we have people who can watch it and knows where it runs, etc.		15:35
adamw	wouldn't be difficult to get permission, would it?	15:36
tflink	the other problem with MW is password expiration - we had several times where the page wasn't updated because the updater's pw was only saved for so long	15:36
* j_dulaney is starting to lean +1 for HTML		15:37
adamw	yeah, if it's not much trouble to do, that seems like the sensible route. using MW isn't gaining us anything in particular, the page is always just used alone.	15:37
tflink	we'd be decreasing the number of edits to the wiki that jlaska is making :)	15:38
j_dulaney	LOL	15:38
nirik	tflink: yeah, for those things we setup a bot account that has no password or doesn't expire it's password or the like.	15:38
nirik	but html works fine too.	15:38
tflink	nirik: we probably should have done that, yeah	15:38
nirik	we already run things that do both... generate html/static pages, and edit the wiki... so either one works.	15:39
adamw	okay, i think we talked this one out	15:39
adamw	tflink, are you happy to work on this? or does anyone else want it?	15:39
tflink	I can do it but I'm not really going to stop others from doing it, either	15:40
tflink	er, would be happy if someone else wanted to do it, rather	15:40
adamw	if any tooling person is looking for a task and finds this interesting, speak it	15:40
kparal	let's wait until we have some interns in Brno :)	15:40
adamw	speak up *	15:40
adamw	kparal: what's the timeframe on that? we'd want the new page up for alpha, obviously	15:41
kparal	hmm, hiring date is mid July	15:41
tflink	when is alpha?	15:41
kparal	provided we find someone suitable	15:41
tflink	when do we branch, rather	15:41
adamw	http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-quality-tasks.html	15:41
kparal	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/Schedule	15:42
adamw	branch date is july 31	15:42
kparal	2012-08-07 Branch Fedora 18 from Rawhide-- Branch Freeze	15:42
adamw	huh	15:42
kparal	interesting	15:42
adamw	different on http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-releng-tasks.html	15:42
adamw	i dunno which wins	15:42
tflink	first blocker meeting is 2012-07-20	15:42
adamw	but either way, sounds like slightly tight timing	15:42
tflink	yeah, I'd rather get it done sooner than later in case there are issues with python-bugzilla	15:43
adamw	i'd rather have it taken care of by someone who's around now in that case	15:44
adamw	yup	15:44
adamw	okay, for now i'll assign to tflink, we can change it if needed	15:44
adamw	#action tflink to fix up blocker bug page for new bugzilla, probably as fedora-hosted static HTML rather than in MW	15:44
tflink	works for me, I need to update my blocker meeting prep scripts anyways	15:44
adamw	tflink: one of us should file a trac ticket too.	15:45
tflink	and they have some codebase overlap with the wiki update script	15:45
adamw	#topic Bugzilla upgrade work - Other scripts using python-bugzilla will likely not work after upgrade	15:45
adamw	for instance =)	15:45
adamw	what others are there?	15:45
tflink	adamw: I assume you mean a qa trac ticket to cover the blocker tracking page stuff? If so, I can do that	15:45
tflink	nothing that I'm aware of in QA land	15:45
adamw	tflink: yeah.	15:46
adamw	tflink: there's https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Test_Day_management#Do_a_post-event_review , which is not a script but an ugly hack i dreamed up for getting a list of bugs from a wiki page. should be trivial to patch up if it needs it.	15:47
* tflink wonders if we should try to put our scripts in more of a single place		15:47
j_dulaney	Or at least list them all out	15:47
adamw	there is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Tools ./	15:48
adamw	which looks like it may need an update.	15:48
tflink	we could request a git repo for the fedora-qa fedorahosted account	15:48
tflink	if there isn't one already	15:48
tflink	the more I think about that, the more it sounds like a good idea	15:49
tflink	at the very least, it could be a base for other scripts - bug output formatting, wiki scraping etc	15:49
adamw	sure, sounds smart	15:50
j_dulaney	+1	15:50
tflink	sounds like /me has multiple actions :)	15:50
kparal	what about using https://github.com/kparal/fedoraqa ?	15:50
adamw	#action tflink to set up QA git account	15:50
adamw	kparal: i'd much rather use a fedorahosted git for 'official' stuff.	15:50
tflink	it's also not tied to a single persons' account	15:51
kparal	I have no problem with that, I'll move my scripts there	15:51
adamw	#topic Bugzilla upgrade work - Bodhi	15:51
adamw	the final thing on this list was "Waiting on testing this week to find out how badly bodhi will be impacted"	15:51
adamw	did bodhi get fixed wrt new bugzilla yet?	15:51
tflink	AFAIK, there was an issue but it's been fixed now	15:52
lmacken	before the new BZ was deployed, yes.	15:52
adamw	eeeeeek, we've been jackwagoned	15:52
adamw	thanks luke	15:52
lmacken	:)	15:52
adamw	#info Bugzilla upgrade work: tflink will take care of the current blockers page, we aren't aware of any other scripts that need fixing, and bodhi has been fixed	15:53
* kparal needs to go, bye		15:53
adamw	kparal: anything for autoqa, quickly?	15:53
kparal	none	15:53
adamw	okey dokey! catch you later	15:53
adamw	anyone have anything else on the new bugzilla?	15:53
adamw	is it just me, or does the 'distribution release' field not exist/show up any more?	15:54
* tflink hadn't noticed but isn't sure if he used it before		15:54
robatino	click on Detailed Bug Information (not terribly obvious)	15:55
adamw	ah. thanks, andre	15:55
adamw	alright, moving on quickly	15:55
adamw	#topic autoqa update	15:55
adamw	tim, do you have anything for this one?	15:56
tflink	nope, I've been working on other stuff, mostly	15:56
tflink	oh, there was some movement in RATS	15:56
* tflink double checks email		15:56
tflink	nothing major, though	15:57
tflink	so, no updates from me	15:57
adamw	okay	15:57
adamw	#info some minor RATS movement, nothing else from autoqa	15:57
adamw	i guess work will be ramping up again soon?	15:58
tflink	hopefully, yes	15:58
adamw	cool.	15:58
adamw	alrighty, very quickly...	15:58
adamw	#topic open floor	15:58
adamw	anything else anyone can think of we need to talk about?	15:58
j_dulaney	adamw: Two things from SELF	15:58
j_dulaney	Firstly, I don't know if this has been communicated to QA at large or not, but Robyn said that Spot will be closing EOL bugs in Bugzilla	15:59
adamw	j_dulaney: aha, great. that was on the agenda for earlier. i'll check in with them on that one	15:59
adamw	#info j_dulaney reports that spot will be handling the EOL bug backlog	15:59
j_dulaney	Secondly, there was some discussion about ARM going primary	16:00
adamw	#info SELF hosted further discussion of ARM as a primary arch	16:00
j_dulaney	My side was QA's role in that, but this would probably be better discussed as a full on topic next week	16:00
j_dulaney	That way we can try to get some of the ARM folks involved	16:00
adamw	sure.	16:01
adamw	thanks!	16:01
j_dulaney	Indeed	16:01
j_dulaney	If you'll drop that on next week's agenda, that's it	16:01
adamw	sure.	16:02
adamw	anyone else?	16:02
* adamw sets fuse for X minutes		16:03
tflink	do we have to solve for X now? This feels like math class :-/	16:03
j_dulaney	Is that Roman Numeral X, or X -1 = 0?	16:04
adamw	who knows!	16:04
tflink	it's a mystery	16:04
j_dulaney	dx/dy = sin x	16:04
nirik	e^(i*pi)	16:04
adamw	you're all wrong! X is now.	16:05
adamw	thanks everyone	16:05
j_dulaney	nirik, why did you have to get all imaginary?	16:05
adamw	#endmeeting	16:05

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