QA/Meetings/20121015

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Contents

Attendees

  • adamw (107)
  • tflink (73)
  • kparal (42)
  • jreznik (28)
  • Viking-Ice (24)
  • dan408- (13)
  • zodbot (8)
  • mkrizek (6)
  • jskladan (5)
  • nirik (4)
  • brunowolff (4)
  • pschindl (3)
  • jsmith (2)
  • Southern_Gentlem (1)
  • Martix_ (1)
  • Cerlyn (1)
  • satellit_e (1)
  • maxamillion (1)

Agenda

  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • adamw to consider revisions to 'kickstart delivery method' criterion - Adam still didn't get enough round tuits, sorry
  • tflink to ask other interested parties (anaconda team, fesco...) to look over the beta criteria and see if there's anything they feel should be dialled down - Tim posted a thread that got some responses but it went down a detour, we will try again

Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review

  • F18 Beta TC4 landed Saturday, comes with a regression in NetworkManager
  • New upgrade tool is still not testable so far as we know
  • We agreed that as new upgrade tool is still not complete, QA does not recommend freezing for Beta at this time

Mini blocker review

  • #864981 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
  • #866115 was accepted as a blocker under the automatic partitioning criterion
  • #866486 was accepted as a blocker under the update install criterion
  • #866434 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
  • #866441 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
  • #866519 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained

Open floor

N/A

Action items

  • tflink try again with asking other teams to review the updated release criteria
  • adamw to update fesco freeze ticket

IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting fedora-qa 15:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Oct 15 15:00:05 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00
adamw #topic roll call 15:00
adamw call me a roll! 15:00
* kparal arrives late 15:00
* satellit_e listening 15:00
* mkrizek is here 15:00
* maxamillion is here 15:01
* Cerlyn watches 15:01
* Southern_Gentlem [icks up a roll and says hello adamw 15:01
* Martix_ waives from Eiffel Tower on FUDCon Paris! 15:01
* brunowolff is here 15:02
* jreznik is here 15:02
* nirik is lurking 15:02
* tflink is here late, got the time mixed up 15:03
* adamw can just see martix from here 15:03
* jskladan lurks 15:04
adamw #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:05
adamw #info adamw to consider revisions to 'kickstart delivery method' criterion - still didn't get enough round tuits, sorr 15:05
adamw #undo 15:05
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2678d350> 15:05
adamw #info adamw to consider revisions to 'kickstart delivery method' criterion - still didn't get enough round tuits, sorry 15:05
adamw #chair tflink brunowolff 15:05
zodbot Current chairs: adamw brunowolff tflink 15:05
adamw " tflink to ask other interested parties (anaconda team,fesco...) to look over the beta criteria and see if there's anything they feel should be dialled down" 15:06
adamw you got somewhere on that, right? 15:06
tflink yeah, there has been a discussion going on test@ 15:07
tflink but unless there is something I'm forgetting at the moment, there wasn't much in the way of specific requests 15:08
tflink some interesting insight into how the blocker process is viewed, though 15:08
adamw right, we got a bit sidetracked there 15:08
brunowolff Yeah, Redhat should be more like us. 15:08
jreznik brunowolff: ? 15:09
adamw brunowolff: shhh, don't make the big pouty giant angry =) 15:09
adamw jreznik: rhel still uses what is essentially the old Fedora blocker list process: everyone throw crap at the list then arbitrarily take it off when it's time to ship. 15:09
adamw which turns out to have been the source of most of dcantrell's concerns, when he thought the fedora blocker list still worked like the rhel one... 15:09
brunowolff Red Hat (made oops on the spelling above) doesn't have Nice to Have and overloads blockers which has some interesting effects. 15:09
jreznik ah, you mean this 15:10
jreznik ok 15:10
adamw so yeah, maybe we could go for a reboot of that discussion with more emphasis on blocker criteria changes 15:10
tflink probably wouldn't hurt 15:10
* pschindl had some problem with connection, but is here now 15:11
adamw hi pschindl 15:11
adamw #info tflink to ask other interested parties (anaconda team,fesco...) to look over the beta criteria and see if there's anything they feel should be dialled down - tflink posted a thread that got some responses but it went down a detour, we will try again 15:12
tflink adamw: action? 15:12
tflink I suppose I could do it :) 15:12
adamw #action tflink try again with asking other teams to review the updated release criteria 15:12
adamw #topic Fedora 18 Beta status check 15:13
adamw #info F18 Beta TC4 landed Friday 15:13
adamw or possibly saturday. 15:13
adamw #undo 15:13
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x283815d0> 15:13
adamw #info F18 Beta TC4 landed Saturday 15:13
adamw i've been a bit out of the loop since then, any major explosions show up? 15:13
kparal NM regression 15:14
kparal a lot of related bugs 15:14
kparal sometimes NM crashes and then a lot of weird things happen in anaconda 15:14
jreznik and still no fedup in testable state, asking wwoods on #anaconda... latest status I have is from Friday... 15:15
jreznik don't expect change there 15:15
tflink jreznik: are we still planning to enter freeze tomorrow? 15:15
adamw #info TC4 comes with a regression in NetworkManager 15:16
kparal adamw: bug 866434 15:16
jreznik tflink: that's the question.. 15:16
adamw #undo 15:16
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x17625490> 15:16
jreznik I don't see any objections in the ticket 15:17
adamw #info TC4 comes with a regression in NetworkManager: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866434 15:17
jreznik and by default, we freeze 15:17
adamw jreznik: well, we'd advise against it still if the upgrade tool still isn't done. 15:17
tflink we should probably update the ticket, then 15:17
nirik any news on fedup? ;( 15:18
* nirik is happy to help package or the like if it will help. 15:18
tflink has it even been submitted for review yet? 15:18
* nirik doesn't think so, looks. 15:18
jreznik no, it wasn't 15:18
adamw #info new upgrade tool is still not testable so far as we know 15:19
jreznik from Friday - The current status is: ALMOST WORKING. 15:19
jreznik but packaging on todo 15:20
jreznik wwoods: are you around? 15:20
adamw propose #agreed as new upgrade tool is still not complete, QA does not recommend freezing for Beta at this time 15:21
tflink ack 15:22
kparal ack 15:22
mkrizek ack 15:22
pschindl ack 15:22
adamw #agreed as new upgrade tool is still not complete, QA does not recommend freezing for Beta at this time 15:22
adamw #action adamw to update fesco freeze ticket 15:22
adamw shall we do some blocker review tflink? looks like there's a few to get through 15:22
adamw #topic Fedora 18 Beta mini blocker review 15:23
dan408- sorry im late, but here 15:23
adamw hi dan 15:24
adamw tflink: want to run this bit? 15:24
dan408- hi adamw 15:24
tflink adamw: ok, give me a sec to get ready 15:24
adamw SEC DENIED 15:24
dan408- heh 15:24
dan408- happy monday 15:24
dan408- adamw: i made a change to comps for mate-desktop so anytime you guys wanna do a new compose lemme know :) 15:25
dan408- pretty quiet for a meeting 15:26
adamw we're waiting on tflink to start up the blocker review bit 15:27
tflink ok, the sorting is going to be off 15:27
dan408- adamw: did you reproduce the hostname issue? and did anyone report the mouse/cursor issue for firstboot? 15:27
tflink since that stuff takes a bit until I get it into the main app 15:27
tflink do we want to go through all of them today or just the ones that changed? 15:28
adamw just go with the new ones / ones that changed 15:28
dan408- ^ 15:28
adamw ones where we're obviously gonna have nothing, skip 'em 15:28
adamw and proposed blockers only 15:28
jreznik +1 15:29
tflink well, lets just do the 6 that have been proposed recently 15:30
tflink #topic (864981) BootLoaderError: bootloader install failed 15:30
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=864981 15:30
tflink #info Proposed Blocker NEW 15:30
Viking-Ice should blocker bug meeting *always* be held on the QA channel and started after the official QA meeting has ended so we do not wind up hogging the meeting channel? 15:30
dan408- hi Viking-Ice 15:30
jreznik Viking-Ice: it makes sense 15:31
* kparal thinks we should not make meeting on #fedora-qa at all, always use a different channel 15:31
adamw we only have 6 15:31
dan408- let's go 15:31
adamw let's just do these 15:31
adamw we have 1.5hrs till anyone else needs the room, i believe. 15:31
jreznik yep, fesco moved to wed 15:32
dan408- wed same time jreznik? 15:32
tflink I'm a little fuzzy on the partitioning setup here 15:32
adamw this is a pretty wonky error 15:32
dan408- i can still crash the partitioning 15:33
adamw it sounds like it's maybe a hybrid MBR 15:33
tflink it's autopart, sure but something sounds strange in the VM setup 15:33
kparal unfortunately we don't have Jan here 15:33
dan408- well if i do reclaim space without clicking the check box then hit continue it crashes 15:33
Viking-Ice yeah this is weird 15:34
tflink do we have enough info totake a vote? 15:34
adamw dan408-: that's not on topic. 15:34
kparal let's punt and ask Jan to reproduce and provide more data about existing layout on disk 15:34
adamw kparal: the key question is the disklabel here i believe. might be worth asking clumens/pjones what's needed. 15:35
adamw but yeah, sounds like a punt. 15:35
kparal it seems clumens might have an idea what's wrong in there 15:35
* jreznik have not seen everything, does not know where to look :) 15:35
jreznik kparal: yep, seems like clumens has an idea 15:36
tflink proposed #agreed 864981 - This seems severe but it would be good to have some more information - ask reporter to reproduce and provide more details on VM setup 15:36
Viking-Ice ack 15:36
adamw ack 15:36
kparal (ask reporter and clumens) 15:36
kparal ack 15:36
jskladan ack 15:36
* jreznik is asking clumens for more info in #anaconda... 15:36
tflink #agreed 864981 - This seems severe but it would be good to have some more information - ask reporter to reproduce and provide more details on VM setup 15:36
tflink #topic (866115) ValueError: ('invalid size specification', '0 b') 15:37
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866115 15:37
tflink #info Proposed Blocker NEW 15:37
jreznik well, "i'm just amazed by that error message" 15:37
Viking-Ice btw you will need to use either grub-install --force --boot-directory=/mnt/boot /dev/sda1 or grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt/boot /dev/sda so this might have been triggered by wrong or unavailable path 15:37
Viking-Ice in anaconda 15:38
kparal Viking-Ice: maybe you can add that information to the bugzilla? thanks 15:38
adamw several people hitting this, looks pretty blockery. 15:38
tflink yeah, sounds like 15:38
adamw comment #17 is a pretty straightforward case that definitely ought to work 15:39
adamw so +1 blocker, alpha part criterion 15:39
tflink proposed #agreed 866115 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion: "The installer must be able to complete an installation using automatic partitioning to any sufficiently large target disk, whether unformatted, empty, or containing any kind of existing data" 15:39
Viking-Ice ack 15:39
kparal ack 15:39
brunowolff ack 15:39
jreznik ack 15:39
tflink #agreed 866115 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion: "The installer must be able to complete an installation using automatic partitioning to any sufficiently large target disk, whether unformatted, empty, or containing any kind of existing data" 15:39
tflink #topic (866486) Apper: cannot perform system update 15:40
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866486 15:40
tflink #info Proposed Blocker NEW 15:40
adamw no graphical updates in kde 15:40
jreznik rdieter: any news on this? 15:40
adamw that sounds blockery. 15:40
tflink it would be nice to have some logs here, though 15:40
mkrizek rdieter mentioned that he's seen that and 'killall packagekitd' helped, not in my case though 15:41
jreznik seems like apper issue, pkcon updates works 15:41
kparal I guess this could be influenced by recent PK update. it automatically cancels background operations when some foreground operations are active 15:41
kparal so that you can use gpk-application when system tries to download system updates in the background 15:41
tflink I'm going to have to go with -1 blocker, though 15:42
* kparal will include relevant info into the bugzilla 15:42
tflink the change to the criteria never made it onto the list 15:42
tflink and by list I mean the list in the wiki 15:42
Viking-Ice -1 blocker as well 15:42
adamw er 15:43
adamw what change? 15:43
* kparal is confused as well 15:43
adamw the criteria require graphical updating to work at *alpha* and have for years 15:43
adamw viking and i were planning to _loosen_ that requirement to beta, but that's pretty irrelevant :) 15:43
tflink alpha - graphical or text method must work @ alpha 15:43
adamw yes. right now both must work at alpha. 15:44
tflink beta - graphical AND text must work (might have been final) 15:44
* adamw waits for tflink to catch up 15:44
tflink ok, I thought that part had ghone through 15:44
kparal actually Alpha is still AND 15:44
kparal just looking at it 15:44
Viking-Ice we never changed it? 15:44
adamw it doesn't matter whether we changed it or not. 15:44
Viking-Ice or decided to change it after F18 15:44
adamw this would be a beta blocker under the old version and the new version. 15:44
jreznik in alpha we said graphical is not needed, I don't remember any mention of beta thus... 15:45
mkrizek but it's beta we're talking about 15:45
tflink proposed #agreed 866486 - VIolates the following F18 alpha release criterion: "The installed system must be able to download and install updates with yum and the default graphical package manager in all release-blocking desktops" 15:45
adamw the old version requires graphical updating to work at alpha. the new version requires graphical updating to work at beta. this is beta. 15:45
Viking-Ice ack 15:45
adamw ack 15:45
jreznik ack 15:45
kparal yes we loosened this in Alpha, but never updated the wiki 15:45
kparal ack 15:45
mkrizek ack 15:45
adamw kparal: i need to check back on that thread, yeah 15:45
tflink #agreed 866486 - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion: "The installed system must be able to download and install updates with yum and the default graphical package manager in all release-blocking desktops" 15:45
tflink #topic (866434) DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.0 was not provided by any .service files 15:45
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866434 15:46
tflink #info Proposed Blocker NEW 15:46
kparal this is the NM regression 15:46
kparal anaconda blows in all sorts of different places because of that 15:46
kparal (at least that's what anaconda devs suppose) 15:46
tflink is anyone else seeing this? 15:47
adamw yeah, it sounds like other people were getting farther, or else they wouldn't hit that 0b size bug... 15:48
kparal today I saw it like 20 times 15:48
kparal it's racy, so sometimes you see it, sometimes you don't 15:48
adamw oh there's several bugs duped off as this one 15:48
kparal all of that are mine reports 15:48
kparal that's what I mean by blowing up in different places 15:48
adamw all from kparal 15:48
adamw heh 15:48
adamw is this in a VM? 15:49
kparal yep 15:49
kparal tomorrow I can try bare metal 15:49
tflink thoughts on blockery-ness? 15:50
adamw it'd help if others could reproduce 15:50
adamw punt till wed 15:50
adamw we should have a better idea by then 15:50
jreznik punt 15:51
tflink proposed #agreed 866434 - It would be good to have more data on the number of people affected by this an more confirmation of the cause - will revisit when more information is available 15:51
jreznik ack 15:51
jskladan ack 15:51
kparal ack 15:51
Viking-Ice ack 15:51
pschindl ack 15:51
mkrizek ack 15:51
tflink #agreed 866434 - It would be good to have more data on the number of people affected by this an more confirmation of the cause - will revisit when more information is available 15:51
tflink #topic (866441) TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable 15:51
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866441 15:51
tflink #info Proposed Blocker NEW 15:51
tflink it sounds like we coulduse more infomration on this one 15:52
kparal there is some problem that might disable the integrated exception reporter, which would be a bad thing 15:53
kparal but we really need anaconda devs feedback 15:53
jreznik but more nth like for me 15:53
kparal let's punt and I'll ask Vratislav tomorrow for more details 15:54
adamw could this be the same NM bug? 15:54
kparal no idea 15:54
adamw just happening at a different time? 15:54
kparal might be, I never saw it before 15:54
kparal but I have seen a lots of empty anaconda-tb-* files today and that makes me nervous 15:54
tflink proposed #agreed 866441 - More information is needed on the cause of this before deciding on blocker status - will wevisit later 15:54
kparal something is really broken in there 15:54
Viking-Ice ack 15:54
adamw ack 15:54
kparal ack 15:54
jskladan ack 15:55
Viking-Ice hmm feels like a non blocker to me though 15:55
tflink #agreed 866441 - More information is needed on the cause of this before deciding on blocker status - will wevisit later 15:55
tflink #undo 15:55
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x1bd964d0> 15:55
tflink #agreed 866441 - More information is needed on the cause of this before deciding on blocker status - will revisit later 15:55
* tflink seems to be channeling elmer fudd ATM 15:55
tflink #topic (866519) BIOS RAID is not shown on harddrive screen 15:56
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=866519 15:56
tflink #info Proposed Blocker NEW 15:56
Viking-Ice is supported ? 15:56
adamw yeah, we have an explicit criterion for RAID at beta, inc BIOS RAID 15:57
tflink in general, yes 15:57
adamw right, we usually set the bar quite high though 15:58
adamw i.e. an error in some particular config isn't enough, we need to be sure it's like all BIOS RAID configs or at least all Intel BIOS RAID configs or something 15:59
Viking-Ice I was more wondering if it was supposed to be shown on the harddrive screen 15:59
adamw so it'd be nice to have another check on this, or if the anaconda team checks and it's definitely a generic issue 15:59
adamw Viking-Ice: yes, a bios raid array ought to show up as a single disk on the diskssel screen 15:59
tflink it would be nice to know what HW was used, too 15:59
adamw yeah 15:59
tflink I see RAID6 but haven't found the HW yet 15:59
Viking-Ice punt for more data? 15:59
adamw and it'd be nice to know what shows on custom partitioning 15:59
adamw i see 'ID_FS_TYPE': 'isw_raid_member', which I think looks like intel bios raid. 16:00
adamw punt sounds good, yeah 16:00
adamw this looks like intel bios raid which means i ought to be able to test and see if i can reproduce 16:01
tflink proposed #agreed 866519 - We need more information on the affected HW and how many people are affected before making a decision on blokcker status 16:01
adamw ack 16:02
Viking-Ice ack 16:02
jskladan ack 16:03
tflink #agreed 866519 - We need more information on the affected HW and how many people are affected before making a decision on blokcker status 16:04
tflink OK, that's all of the newly proposed blockers 16:04
tflink since we're over time, I propose we move on 16:04
Viking-Ice finish that proposed nth? 16:04
tflink Viking-Ice: that shouldn't be on the list, actually 16:04
tflink I need to figure out why it's showing up 16:04
adamw that's all teh blockers? 16:05
tflink all of the recently changed ones, yes 16:05
adamw yay. 16:05
adamw thanks tflink 16:06
adamw #topic open floor 16:06
* kparal recently changed 847831 16:06
* adamw taps on zodbot 16:06
adamw so, anyone have anything for open floor? 16:07
Viking-Ice nothing from me 16:07
adamw i do have a heads-up: i'm having a change of heart on the partitioning criteria and wondering if we're getting too ambitious at beta 16:07
jsmith nothing from me 16:07
adamw but i'll work up a more detailed proposal for the list 16:07
* tflink is planning to release the new blocker tracking app soon 16:07
jsmith adamw: Looking forward to reading it 16:07
tflink not sure when the downtime will work best, though 16:08
Viking-Ice adamw, define ambitious 16:08
adamw the basic idea is 'require much less from custom part at beta, focus on the non-custom path as we did for f17 and earlier' 16:08
adamw Viking-Ice: as in, requiring too much to work at beta 16:08
Viking-Ice yeah well if those changes dont take effect until next development cycle 16:08
Viking-Ice but I'm of the opinion that by beta custom partitioning ought to work 16:09
adamw well we can kick it further on the list 16:09
adamw that was just a sneak preview =) 16:09
Viking-Ice but still the old one is valid until next development cycle 16:10
Viking-Ice since this is not lack change in anaconda's behavior 16:13
adamw so if we don't have anything else... 16:13
* adamw sets fuse for pi minutes 16:13
* kparal looks at his stopwatch 16:13
adamw it doesn't have a pi function? well pfah 16:13
adamw thanks for coming, folks 16:13
adamw #endmeeting 16:13

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