QA/Meetings/20130527

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Contents

Attendees

  • adamw (101)
  • tflink (32)
  • kparal (26)
  • j_dulaney (17)
  • jreznik (8)
  • nirik (5)
  • zodbot (5)
  • satellit_e (4)
  • Martix (1)
  • jskladan (1)
  • Cerlyn (1)
  • pingou (1)
  • pschindl (1)

Agenda

  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 19 Beta review/wrap-up
  • Fedora 19 Final planning
  • Taskbot
  • Test Days
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • nirik to work on revising the 'desktop updates' test case to be more generic - not done yet
  • martix to co-ordinate with Thermostat test day runners to make sure they'll be ready or postpone the event - this was done, and the event went off fine
  • nirik to remove F20 from bugzilla for now - this was done, the few bugs opened were moved to Rawhide

Fedora 19 Beta review/wrap-up

  • 19 Beta RC4 will be released as Beta tomorrow
  • kparal will produce stats on contributors to testing
  • Common_F19_bugs needs updating and we want to ensure the issue with PackageKit permissions and a note on the current state of initial-setup make the release notes

Fedora 19 Final planning

  • Final TC1 scheduled for 2013-06-04
  • Final freeze scheduled for 2013-06-18
  • Final release criteria need to be revised into the new format
  • We should complete the Final tests on Beta to identify any current blockers ahead of time

Taskbot

  • Taskbot is tflink's new idea for automated testing
  • jreznik noted that this should be synchronized with the Fedora revamp proposal and development resources may be available in relation to that
  • Some discussion of the best way to structure taskbot design and the work of writing it to be open to contribution and to achieve practical results as soon as possible
  • Code is at http://taskbot.tirfa.net for now

Test Days

Open floor

  • Flock session submission deadline is 2013-05-31, so if you have ideas for sessions, please submit them

Action items

  • adamw and anyone else to work on updating Common_F19_bugs
  • adamw to talk to rbergeron and make sure packagekit/policykit issue makes it into the beta release notes
  • adamw to complete 'new model' criteria revision by converting the final criteria
  • tflink to update the iscsi test case for newUI
  • tflink to schedule first blocker review meeting for this week
  • adamw to look at extracting some test cases from Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup for use as optional test cases (or even enforceable partitioning test cases) for the validation matrices
  • martix to ensure spice test day is ready on time
  • satellit_e to work on some test cases for SoaS

IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:02
zodbot Meeting started Mon May 27 15:02:01 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:02
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 15:02
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:02
adamw #topic roll call 15:02
adamw morning folks! how is everyone? 15:02
* j_dulaney slumps in, all tired 15:02
* satellit_e listening 15:02
* j_dulaney pulled an all night hacking run 15:02
* jreznik is partially here from bed - sick today :( 15:03
pingou take care jreznik 15:03
* Cerlyn watches 15:04
* jskladan tips his hat 15:04
* j_dulaney twitches 15:04
* kparal joins 15:04
* adamw sets up a coffee iv for j_dulaney 15:05
* j_dulaney gets high from the caffeine 15:06
adamw no tflink in the house? 15:07
* pschindl is here 15:07
j_dulaney Holiday in the US 15:07
j_dulaney Memorial Day 15:07
adamw pfeh 15:08
adamw .fire tflink 15:08
zodbot adamw fires tflink 15:08
adamw #chair kparal 15:08
zodbot Current chairs: adamw kparal 15:08
adamw #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:08
adamw "nirik to work on revising the 'desktop updates' test case to be more generic" - did you get anywhere on that, nirik? 15:09
nirik nope. :) 15:09
nirik will try this week. 15:09
adamw alrighty. 15:10
adamw #info "nirik to work on revising the 'desktop updates' test case to be more generic" - not done yet, nirik will try to work on it this week 15:11
adamw #info "martix to co-ordinate with Thermostat test day runners to make sure they'll be ready or postpone the event" - martix checked in, and they were ready in time 15:11
adamw "nirik to remove F20 from bugzilla for now" - you again, nirik 15:11
nirik done. 15:12
nirik nuked. wiped. 15:12
nirik I moved all 10 bugs in it to rawhide. 15:12
adamw thanks. 15:13
adamw #info "nirik to remove F20 from bugzilla for now" - done, nuked, wiped, bugs moved to rawhide 15:13
adamw #topic Fedora 19 Beta review/wrap-up 15:13
adamw so, in case anyone missed it, we approved F19 Beta RC4 at go/no-go on thursday, it will be released tomorrow 15:14
adamw big thanks to everyone for validation testing 15:14
j_dulaney And there was much rejoicing 15:14
kparal I'll create some contributors stats, hopefully this week 15:14
adamw #info 19 Beta RC4 will be released as Beta tomorrow 15:14
adamw #info kparal will produce stats on contributors to testing 15:14
adamw the couple of things I have noted down are that we need to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs and make sure the release notes cover the PackageKit/PolicyKit thing and maybe initial-setup 15:15
adamw anyone have anything else we need to do as part of beta wrap-up? 15:15
tflink this isn't so much wrap up for beta as prep for final but the iscsi test case needs some editing to work with newui 15:17
kparal I couldn't test the UEFI grub fix today, our mirrors were dead 15:17
tflink and there's a final prep section - should have waited 5 minutes 15:18
adamw tflink: :) 15:18
adamw kparal: ah, was wondering about that, i can try if i can get past the exhaustion issue somehow :/ 15:18
kparal adamw: reflashing bios worked for us 15:18
adamw this is my production desktop so i'm a bit reluctant to do that. anyhow 15:19
kparal but the current uefi hw is really crap 15:19
adamw oh, while we're on the topic - if you can still flash yours, pjones is interested in what happens if you flash your firmware and then do nothing but install fedora over and over till it breaks 15:19
adamw if it really breaks after 10 tries, something's very wrong somewhere, he says 15:19
kparal adamw: I guess it will be around 15-20. I can definitely try it once our mirrors are back online 15:20
adamw ok 15:20
adamw he says the nvram ought to have space for hundreds or thousands of install attempts 15:20
adamw it should only really get filled up by stuff like coredumps 15:20
tflink there's that s-word :) 15:20
adamw so if it gets filled up by a few install attempts, either there's something wonky kernel-side or you have a really bad firmware 15:20
j_dulaney tflink: Quiet! 15:21
kparal that depends. we did a 10 f19 installations, everything was fine. then we installed f18, upgraded, and the game was over 15:21
kparal *10x f19 installations 15:21
kparal damn, you get the meaning, ten installations :) 15:21
kparal but I think it was because f18 by default still uses coredump-to-nvram approach 15:22
kparal so it filled up 15:22
adamw kparal: right, that's why he wants you to just to f19 install attempts, as coredump storing is currently disabled so it shouldn't affect things 15:22
adamw but we're taking up meeting time here :) 15:23
adamw #action adamw and anyone else to work on updating https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs 15:23
adamw #action adamw to talk to rbergeron and make sure packagekit/policykit issue makes it into the beta release notes 15:23
adamw if anyone wants to help out with commonbugs, that'd be great: see http://bit.ly/fedora-commonbugs-proposed for the list of bugs that may need to be added to the page 15:24
adamw #topic Fedora 19 Final planning 15:25
adamw so i had a couple of things noted down here 15:25
adamw #action adamw to complete 'new model' criteria revision by converting the final criteria 15:26
adamw #info Final TC1 scheduled for June 4th (2013-06-04) 15:26
adamw #info final freeze scheduled for 2013-06-18 15:27
tflink the iscsi installation test case needs updating for newui 15:27
adamw what else do we need to get ready for final? 15:27
adamw roger 15:27
adamw there's probably a few others too...i meant to do a comprehensive sweep through them between 19 and 20 15:27
adamw #action tflink to update the iscsi test case for newUI 15:28
tflink meant or want? 15:28
adamw whichever you prefer 15:29
adamw anyone have anything else to suggest? 15:29
tflink I assume you meant between 18 and 19, but them's details 15:29
adamw no, i meant 19 and 20 15:31
adamw but possibly 'mean' not 'meant; 15:31
adamw nothing else for 19 final prep? 15:34
adamw one note, then: we should probably cover the 'final' tests on beta and file blocker bugs for anything that fails 15:35
adamw help give us early warning of any final blockers 15:35
* kparal and vbocek have been already working on that 15:36
tflink and we might want to start blocker review meetings this week - the list was already pretty long when I last looked at it 15:36
kparal adamw: I just though we should fill in the empty test cases using Beta RC4 but wait for Final TC1 15:37
kparal *shouldn't 15:37
adamw kparal: it's fine to add them to the matrix, in fact it helps get a quick overview of the status 15:37
adamw thanks for working on it already 15:37
adamw tflink: that's a point 15:37
kparal at least for Desktop the packages changed a lot, since we've been unfrozen 15:37
adamw #action tflink to schedule first blocker review meeting for this week 15:38
adamw alright, we're running low on time so moving on 15:38
adamw #topic Taskbot 15:38
adamw #info http://tirfa.com/an-initial-idea-for-taskbot.html is Tim's idea for revising our approach to automated testing (and rebuilding autoqa) 15:39
adamw really just wanted to point it up and maybe have a quick q&a for anyone with questions :) 15:39
jreznik for taskbot - it would be great to coordinate with fedora revamp initiative - seems like a good fit 15:40
tflink jreznik: yeah, we've already been pinged about that 15:40
kparal tflink: so, the idea is to replace autotest, keep a half of the autoqa library. what about resultsdb? 15:40
tflink kparal: not 100% sure yet - need to talk to josef about it 15:41
kparal ok 15:41
tflink I didn't use it in the proof of concept for 2 reasons 15:41
kparal I like the architecture, at least in some points it will be a definite improvement 15:41
tflink 1 - I would rather everything use json over restful interfaces instead of xmlrpc 15:41
jreznik tflink: I'm aware of that and the whole revamp concept is all about automatic qa + processes around it 15:41
kparal if we can implement it 15:41
tflink 2 - I wanted to play with angular for the frontend instead of templating in the app 15:42
tflink yeah, human resources are going to be a bit of an issue, as always 15:43
kparal we can discuss the technical details in qa-devel. but what about some other details, like manpower. do you have some idea how many people we would need to work on it? 15:44
adamw and will the work be set up such that it's easy for people to contribute, or will that be difficult? 15:44
tflink depends on what we want done and how quickly 15:44
* j_dulaney is +1 public git repo 15:45
tflink it is all public 15:45
kparal the contribution should be easier 15:45
tflink than it is? yes 15:45
kparal no need to request patches approval 15:45
tflink I'd like to have code reviews for all core changes 15:46
j_dulaney +1 code reviews 15:46
kparal sure, I meant for third-party tests 15:46
tflink the task maintainers would be responsible for their own tests, though 15:46
tflink given our experience with autoqa, I assume that we're going to be hard pressed to find contributers to taskbot itself 15:47
adamw for third party tests great, but I meant the work of the actual conversion to taskbot 15:47
jreznik do you talk about contributions to the system or test cases? we would definitely need contributions from devels, mitr would like to sell it in the way - contribute test case and there would be smaller chance someone will break your stuff without knowing it (and that's the main idea behind revamp) 15:47
tflink jreznik: my initial target for taskbot is going to be no external tests 15:48
tflink once the core is solid, we can start talking about external tests 15:48
j_dulaney tflink: Where can I start poking? 15:48
kparal I agree we will hardly find someone willing to contribute to the system core. for third-party tests I assume there should be enough interest 15:48
tflink my fear is that if we try to do everything right off the bat, this is going to implode 15:48
tflink j_dulaney: http://taskbot.tirfa.net for now 15:49
tflink it's like supporting arm - I'm planning on it and it's a requirement but the initial target is x86 to keep things kind of simpler 15:49
j_dulaney tflink: Aye 15:49
j_dulaney Indeed 15:49
jreznik tflink: for the revamp - it's #1 feature we would like to have but I can image less gigantic first step (so the initial version with at least some integration testing prepared by QA)... just keep it in mind we would need such infrastructure 15:50
adamw j_dulaney: it'll move to https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ when it grows up I guess 15:50
tflink adamw: no, it won't - it'll be in a separate git repo and tracker 15:50
adamw ah okay 15:50
tflink jreznik: yeah, I'm still trying to figure out some of this - I'm not 100% sure what we're going to need for infra, if anything 15:51
tflink I was mostly interested in figuring out - a) is there interest in the idea? b) how soon do we want to go forward with this 15:51
tflink I'm not dumb/naive enough to assume that I've thought of everything, so useful input would be appreciated 15:52
adamw cool 15:52
adamw let's move on for now so we can wrap up in time 15:53
tflink one question is about the next steps - do we migrate the fedora cloud or replace autoqa-stg? 15:53
tflink but that can be on qa-devel@ 15:53
adamw further discussion on #fedora-qa, tirfa.com, qa-devel@ 15:53
jreznik tflink: I feel support especially from fesco, a lot of people stand behind it at fudcon but yeah, there's no clear direction now and it's definitely a good topic to talk abou before flock 15:54
tflink jreznik: one motivation for talking about it now was so that I can do a talk/hackfest @ flock 15:54
adamw right, that's an obvious thing we should do 15:54
tflink since the deadline for proposals is in a couple days 15:55
adamw #topic Test Days 15:55
adamw #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup went off fine and produced some useful tests, including things we weren't covering in validation 15:55
jreznik tflink: "before flock" - it should be prepared by flock to be able to move with it there 15:55
* jreznik will contact mitr about it 15:55
adamw #action adamw to look at extracting some test cases from Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup for use as optional test cases (or even enforceable partitioning test cases) for the validation matrices 15:56
adamw #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-23_Thermostat also went off well and looked like it was being useful for the developers 15:56
kparal although attended mainly by the developers themselves :) 15:56
adamw as long as they had fun :) 15:57
adamw #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-28_Virtualization looks to be ready 15:57
adamw are you doing a live image for that one? 15:57
kparal already provided 15:58
adamw great 15:58
adamw #info live image has been provided for virt test day 15:58
adamw #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-30_Spice is being worked on, but test cases not yet present 15:58
adamw Martix: are you in contact with the spice folks? 15:59
Martix adamw: I looked on test day page and I am going contact them 16:00
adamw great 16:00
adamw #action martix to ensure spice test day is ready on time 16:00
adamw #topic Open floor 16:01
adamw just wanted to say again great job everyone getting beta out on time 16:01
adamw thanks for that 16:01
adamw any other business for open floor? 16:01
satellit_e any test cases for sugar needed? or is it too specialized 16:02
j_dulaney satellit_e: Test cases are always appreciated 16:03
adamw it would be nice if it had its own, sure 16:03
adamw we list the desktop cases for it but they're not entirely appropriate 16:03
adamw it might be good to have test cases for the most important elements 16:04
satellit_e let me draw up some simple tests 16:04
* satellit_e ideas for tests 16:04
adamw great, thanks 16:05
adamw #action satellit_e to work on some test cases for SoaS 16:05
adamw anything else, folks? 16:05
j_dulaney +1 to getting ready for flock; proposals close in a couple of days 16:05
adamw yup, good point 16:06
* j_dulaney has two proposed talks 16:06
adamw #info Flock session submission deadline is 2013-05-31, so if you have ideas for sessions, please submit them 16:07
adamw i've got one in and mean to submit another for taking another look at the release criteria 16:07
adamw which will just be me, on my own, wondering why no-one else spends all their time thinking about tweaking release criteria 16:07
j_dulaney adamw: You're too good at it! You drive away the compitition 16:08
adamw heh 16:08
adamw alrighty, thanks for coming everyone 16:08
* adamw sets the Patent Fuse for three chickens and a monkey 16:09
adamw #endmeeting 16:10

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