QA/Meetings/20130805

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Contents

Attendees

  • tflink (118)
  • handsome_pirate (40)
  • atodorov (26)
  • nirik (12)
  • adamw (11)
  • zodbot (7)
  • kparal (7)
  • ignatenkobrain (2)
  • satellit (2)
  • spoore (1)
  • mkrizek (1)
  • Southern_Gentlem (1)
  • pschindl (1)

Agenda

  • Fedora 20 Planning / Change review
  • Open floor

Fedora 20 Planning / Change review

  • F20 branch and Alpha TC1 scheduled date has been changed to 2013-08-20: public schedule, QA schedule
  • Changes/VisibleCloud
    • We're still not clear on what exactly should be tested for cloud images other than "do they boot"
    • atodorov suggested that the EC2 AMIs could be checked for amazon's AMI creation guidelines
    • There were also concerns about how to test cloud images w/o an EC2 account and whether we want/need to worry about granting access to either an account for testing or an openstack instance - will require more discussion
    • Testing cloud images on infra's private cloud may be an option for some testing
  • Changes/LabeledNFS
    • We should probably test nfs sourced installs from a F20 server with labeled nfs some - it's not clear whether there could be read errors on the server even though anaconda runs in permissive

Open floor

  • atodorov is joining (part time) Fedora QA and helping with installation related items short term. He is a member of RH's 'RTT' team, which does anaconda testing for RHEL: he will be able to help us run some automated testing of Fedora images on RH's automated testing setup

Action items

N/A

IRC Log

tflink #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 14:32
zodbot Meeting started Mon Aug 5 14:32:16 2013 UTC. The chair is tflink. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:32
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:32
tflink #meetingname fedora-qa 14:32
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 14:32
tflink #topic Roll Call 14:32
tflink #chair adamw kparal 14:32
zodbot Current chairs: adamw kparal tflink 14:32
tflink anyone here to be called a roll? 14:32
* satellit listening 14:32
* mkrizek is here 14:33
* atodorov is here (will introduce myself later) 14:33
* kparal joins late 14:33
* spoore is listening 14:33
* pschindl is here 14:34
* tflink waits a few more minutes as more people join 14:34
tflink ok, let's get started 14:37
* tflink is ad-libbing a bit, hopefully will cover the parts that adamw had in mind 14:37
tflink #topic Fedora 20 Planning/Change Review 14:38
* handsome_pirate is here, btw 14:38
tflink supposedly TC1 is scheduled for this week 14:39
tflink but I can't find the date 14:39
tflink oh, I think this schedule has been changed recently 14:39
tflink yep, everything got shifted back by ~ 2 weeks 14:40
tflink #info fedora 20 branch is now scheduled for "no later than 2013-08-20" 14:41
nirik yes, it's moved out 2 weeks from the 'no later than' thing. 14:41
tflink #info fedora 20 alpha TC1 is now scheduled for 2013-08-20 14:42
tflink #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/Schedule 14:42
tflink #link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-20/f-20-quality-tasks.html 14:42
* tflink is reading through the changes marked in the meeting outline 14:43
nirik I think that was decided as the actual schedule... but perhaps it didn't get enough votes. 14:44
tflink nirik: do you know if that was in a fesco ticket or meeting minutes? 14:44
nirik in ticket, let me look 14:45
handsome_pirate Either way, I'm +1 for more time 14:45
nirik https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1095#comment:22 14:45
nirik so if folks don't think thats reasonable, do bring it up there. Otherwise the +2 week version is what we have 14:45
tflink I'm sure there will be lots of happy us-ians about thanksgiving plans :) 14:47
tflink nirik: we were planning on the old schedule, so another 2 weeks isn't going to be a horrible thing :) 14:47
nirik yeah 14:48
* handsome_pirate will survive working through Thanksgiving 14:48
nirik ditto on both accounts. 14:48
tflink the timing may get interesting for other reasons, but let's cross that bridge if/when we get there 14:48
tflink so, the list of features identified for attention today are: 14:49
tflink System Wide: 14:49
tflink LabeledNFS 14:49
tflink NetworkManagerBonding 14:49
tflink NetworkManagerBridging 14:49
tflink VisibleCloud 14:49
* handsome_pirate just cced himself to schedule ticket 14:49
tflink Self Contained: 14:49
tflink NetworkManagerCLIAddConnection 14:49
tflink Links available from wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20130805 14:50
tflink anything in particular that people feel should be discussed? 14:50
* tflink interprets silence as a "not so much" 14:51
* handsome_pirate is looking through them 14:51
tflink I think adam had concerns about visable cloud and our lack of cloudy testing but I don't know more details than that 14:52
handsome_pirate LabeledNFS may want some attention 14:52
tflink s/visable/visible 14:52
tflink handsome_pirate: yeah, that could cause issues with nfs sourced install media 14:52
tflink in addition to any more testing 14:52
* tflink is looking forward to bridging support in NM 14:53
handsome_pirate +1 bridging 14:53
* atodorov has an old RFE open for VPN over NM bonding 14:53
handsome_pirate The question that keeps coming up with cloud is how do we test? 14:53
handsome_pirate re: visible cloud 14:54
tflink handsome_pirate: not sure, honestly 14:54
handsome_pirate For instance, I don't have a credit card, so I can't spin up an Amazon instance to test it 14:54
tflink I think that the expectation is that people are either willing to pay for EC2 or have access to some openstack thing 14:54
handsome_pirate Ah 14:54
atodorov handsome_pirate: I have RedHat backed EC2 account, also specialize in installation testing 14:54
handsome_pirate atodorov: But, I don't 14:55
handsome_pirate I don't work for RH 14:55
tflink handsome_pirate: I really don't know what the plan is there - the cost barrier to EC2 testing is one issue, though 14:56
atodorov handsome_pirate, tflink: reasouce issue aside, what do you want to test for cloud images on amazon ? 14:56
kparal the cloud people tested it themselves in the past releases, I don't expect it to change this time 14:56
Southern_Gentlem kparal, but better to communicate than assume 14:57
handsome_pirate kparal: Well, if it's going to be an official (almost primary) release, should QA not give it a go? 14:57
tflink kparal: I think the concern is that the cloud folks really aren't testing all that much and if we want to be advertising more, qa should be testing in some form 14:57
handsome_pirate ^^ 14:57
tflink atodorov: that's a good question, really. cloud isn't all that different from VMs other than initial boot 14:57
* ignatenkobrain here 14:58
atodorov tflink: agree, if it boots then it works :). for EC2 however we may want to test some of their AMI creation guidelines, like for example remove your ssh keys from the image 14:58
tflink there's a lot of "OMG, it's cloud and therefore all complicated and stuff ..." which it is, but not as much from the users perspective 14:58
ignatenkobrain hi all ! 14:58
* handsome_pirate gets that 14:59
handsome_pirate It's a glorified VM 14:59
tflink atodorov: good point, especially with the concerns raised about digitalocean as of late 14:59
handsome_pirate I just think that QA should pass off on it if we're going to be making it as visible as it's going to be 14:59
atodorov tflink: I'm not aware of this. Can you send me a link pls 14:59
tflink atodorov: http://missingm.co/2013/07/identical-droplets-in-the-digitalocean-regenerate-your-ubuntu-ssh-host-keys-now/ 15:00
tflink handsome_pirate: sure, but now we've come full circle to "what do we want/need to test about cloud images?" 15:01
handsome_pirate tflink: We don't exactly have much in the way of criteria, do we? 15:01
tflink I'd love to test more of the qcow2 images, I *think* they're pretty much the same as AMIs content-wise 15:01
handsome_pirate tflink: I assume that at least the minimal criteria would apply 15:01
tflink handsome_pirate: because they're pretty much glorified VMs 15:01
handsome_pirate tflink: Aye 15:02
handsome_pirate As I said above 15:02
tflink the fancy stuff is more os/distro agnosti 15:02
tflink agnostic 15:02
handsome_pirate It would be cool to make sure it works 15:02
tflink handsome_pirate: yep, I liked the phrase so I'm stealing it :-P 15:02
handsome_pirate heh 15:02
handsome_pirate It's Creative Commons :) 15:02
tflink anyhow, we're getting off into the weeds a bit 15:03
handsome_pirate Aye 15:03
atodorov #link http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/AESDG-chapter-sharingamis.html#public-amis-identity 15:03
tflink #info we're still not clear on what exactly should be tested for cloud images other than "do they boot" 15:03
tflink #info atodorov suggested that the EC2 AMIs could be checked for amazon's AMI creation guidelines 15:04
tflink is ^^^ 15:04
tflink phrased well enough to understand? 15:04
handsome_pirate Aye 15:05
atodorov yup 15:05
tflink I wonder if that fits better into the automation stuff that the cloud SIG has been talking about 15:05
* tflink hasn't asked them about their progress on that front lately 15:05
handsome_pirate tflink: I can ping them about it 15:05
tflink handsome_pirate: otherwise I'm sure it'll come up @ flock 15:06
handsome_pirate True 15:06
tflink #info there are also concerns about how to test cloud images w/o an EC2 account and whether we want/need to worry about granting access to either an account for testing or an openstack instance - will require more discussion 15:07
tflink OK, any more concerns about cloud 15:07
tflink  ? 15:07
* adamw apparently can't read clocks 15:07
adamw morning folks 15:08
* tflink has always been of the opinion that clocks are overrated :) 15:08
tflink adamw: you've already been chaired, feel free to take over 15:08
* tflink isn't sure if there were specific concerns you had about the listed features 15:08
* handsome_pirate thinks adamw should fire himself 15:08
adamw i'm with handsome_pirate on the visible cloud stuff, that's why i put that Change on the meeting list, fwiw 15:08
adamw the others are just changes that are new since last meeting 15:09
adamw tflink: you may as well keep driving 15:09
tflink tagged nfs might be interesting for install testing 15:09
tflink adamw: ok 15:09
tflink any other concerns about visible cloud images? 15:09
* satellit afk 15:10
tflink #topic Fedora 20 Planning/Change Review - LabeledNFS 15:10
adamw i haven't read all the scrollback, but my thinking was we might need to tweak the criteria a bit and maybe add a test case or two, just for the t hings that have been discussed 15:10
* nirik notes we could look at granting some qa folks access to the infra private openstack cloud... 15:10
nirik (if testing in openstack is desired) 15:10
adamw check the image boots and any important 'first time steps' for cloud images fly 15:11
tflink nirik: the thought was that it might be a better option than EC2 testing most of the time 15:11
tflink it -> openstack 15:11
handsome_pirate +1 15:11
nirik yeah, could be. 15:11
nirik but they are quite different too... so both would be best. 15:12
tflink nirik: true but I figured that we could get the common stuff done with openstack to reduce the amount of paid testing needed for EC2 15:13
* nirik nods 15:13
atodorov tflink: we can use some spot instances in EC2 as well to reduce the cost further 15:13
tflink #undo 15:13
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x249ba610> 15:13
tflink atodorov: true, I've certainly done that before and saved money 15:14
tflink as long as you don't mind getting an instance ripped out from underneath you suddenly :) 15:14
tflink which has happened to me 15:14
tflink and others, I assume 15:14
atodorov tflink: for personal use I set a high enough spot bid and haven't seen an instance shutting down on me 15:15
tflink #info testing cloud images on infra's private cloud may be an option for some testing 15:15
tflink atodorov: yeah, I learned about not setting the bid too low when my hadoop cluster fell over when instances got yanked :) 15:16
tflink ok, anything else before moving on? we have ~ 15 minutes left 15:16
* handsome_pirate is good 15:16
tflink #topic Fedora 20 Planning/Change Review - LabeledNFS 15:16
tflink I should have split off the cloud stuff as well but either way 15:17
tflink my main question here is whether we want to account for labeled nfs for install tesitng 15:17
tflink testing 15:17
* tflink apparently can't spell today 15:17
handsome_pirate We should 15:18
adamw how do you mean 'account for'? 15:18
tflink adamw: testing installs with and without 15:18
adamw so basically run the NFS install tests against F20 servers? 15:18
tflink not sure it'll make a huge difference, though. anaconda runs in permissive 15:18
tflink adamw: it sounds like less of a concern when you put it that way 15:19
tflink so probably not needing to call out install tests with labeled nfs so much 15:19
handsome_pirate Still, it may not be a bad idea to do it once, just to check 15:20
adamw sure 15:20
atodorov tflink, adamw: anaconda runs in permissive but who handles access enforcement - client or server ? 15:20
tflink atodorov: good question 15:20
tflink server, I assue 15:21
tflink NFSv3 is RPC based 15:21
atodorov then it is possible to get a read error 15:21
tflink I assume that NFSv4 is going to be similar that way 15:21
tflink but I've never really gotten into how NFSv4 actually works 15:22
handsome_pirate But, assumptions ... 15:22
tflink yeah, I know 15:23
tflink #info we should probably test nfs sourced installs from a F20 server with labeled nfs some 15:23
tflink #undo 15:23
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x26085f90> 15:23
tflink #info we should probably test nfs sourced installs from a F20 server with labeled nfs some - it's not clear whether there could be read errors on the server even though anaconda runs in permissive 15:24
tflink any other stuff to bring up before open floor? 15:24
tflink atodorov: do you want to do a bit of an introduction? 15:25
atodorov tflink: yes, I will be quick 15:25
tflink #chair atodorov 15:25
zodbot Current chairs: adamw atodorov kparal tflink 15:25
tflink atodorov: go ahead, not sure what you want to call the topic 15:26
kparal #topic Fedora QA and RTT cooperation 15:26
tflink kparal: that works :) 15:26
atodorov #info atodorov is joining (part time) Fedora QA and helping with installation related items short term. Long term I'd like to work on ifrastructure too. I have 6+ years of anacodna testing experience for RHEL 15:26
atodorov that's the short info ^^^ 15:27
adamw welcome! 15:27
handsome_pirate Ahoy! 15:27
atodorov I'm coming from RedHat's internal team that work on installation testing for RHEL 15:27
tflink welcome to the party! 15:27
kparal atodorov should be running some RTT tests in house and sending us results on the TCs and RCs 15:27
kparal that could save us a ton of manual work, or at least identify some interesting bugs 15:27
atodorov I will be working with kamil in the short term and bring some of the internal installation testing wisdom and automation to Fedora 15:27
tflink I forget, what is RTT short for? 15:28
* handsome_pirate is happy to see more vict... I mean helpers 15:28
kparal Release Test Team 15:28
atodorov RTT == Release Test Team 15:28
atodorov aka Installation QE 15:28
tflink thanks, I knew what they did, just not what RTT meant :) 15:28
tflink atodorov, kparal: anything else you guys want to cover before moving into open floor? 15:29
atodorov one more thing 15:29
atodorov long term I'd like to see a Fedora QA lab (infrastructure) like we have for RHEL - all automated 15:29
atodorov feel free to include me in meetings and such on this topic 15:29
tflink atodorov: we're working on it :) 15:30
atodorov I can do Python and Django and Bash coding ;) 15:30
kparal ok, thanks 15:30
handsome_pirate atodorov: See tflink's taskbot blog posts 15:30
atodorov handsome_pirate: will do, still getting up to speed 15:30
* handsome_pirate has to go 15:31
handsome_pirate peace, y;all 15:31
tflink atodorov: I'll have some questions about how RTT automates installs but that'll be for another time 15:31
* atodorov has worked on Beaker patches for EC2 in the past but they never got merged back I think 15:31
atodorov tflink: I will introduce myself on the mailing list and you can ping me via email 15:32
tflink anyhow, we're over time so if there's nothing else that needs to be covered in meeting ... 15:32
tflink atodorov: sounds like a plan 15:32
tflink #topic Open Floor 15:33
tflink Any items for open floor? 15:33
* tflink sets the Fedora QA patent-pending non-deterministic fuse for [0,5] minutes 15:34
tflink boom! 15:35
tflink Thanks for coming everyone! 15:35
tflink #endmeeting 15:35

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