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Attendees
- tflink (118)
- handsome_pirate (40)
- atodorov (26)
- nirik (12)
- adamw (11)
- zodbot (7)
- kparal (7)
- ignatenkobrain (2)
- satellit (2)
- spoore (1)
- mkrizek (1)
- Southern_Gentlem (1)
- pschindl (1)
Agenda
- Fedora 20 Planning / Change review
- Open floor
Fedora 20 Planning / Change review
- F20 branch and Alpha TC1 scheduled date has been changed to 2013-08-20: public schedule, QA schedule
- Changes/VisibleCloud
- We're still not clear on what exactly should be tested for cloud images other than "do they boot"
- atodorov suggested that the EC2 AMIs could be checked for amazon's AMI creation guidelines
- There were also concerns about how to test cloud images w/o an EC2 account and whether we want/need to worry about granting access to either an account for testing or an openstack instance - will require more discussion
- Testing cloud images on infra's private cloud may be an option for some testing
- Changes/LabeledNFS
- We should probably test nfs sourced installs from a F20 server with labeled nfs some - it's not clear whether there could be read errors on the server even though anaconda runs in permissive
Open floor
- atodorov is joining (part time) Fedora QA and helping with installation related items short term. He is a member of RH's 'RTT' team, which does anaconda testing for RHEL: he will be able to help us run some automated testing of Fedora images on RH's automated testing setup
Action items
N/A
IRC Log
| tflink | #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting | 14:32 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Aug 5 14:32:16 2013 UTC. The chair is tflink. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:32 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 14:32 |
| tflink | #meetingname fedora-qa | 14:32 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 14:32 |
| tflink | #topic Roll Call | 14:32 |
| tflink | #chair adamw kparal | 14:32 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: adamw kparal tflink | 14:32 |
| tflink | anyone here to be called a roll? | 14:32 |
| * satellit listening | 14:32 | |
| * mkrizek is here | 14:33 | |
| * atodorov is here (will introduce myself later) | 14:33 | |
| * kparal joins late | 14:33 | |
| * spoore is listening | 14:33 | |
| * pschindl is here | 14:34 | |
| * tflink waits a few more minutes as more people join | 14:34 | |
| tflink | ok, let's get started | 14:37 |
| * tflink is ad-libbing a bit, hopefully will cover the parts that adamw had in mind | 14:37 | |
| tflink | #topic Fedora 20 Planning/Change Review | 14:38 |
| * handsome_pirate is here, btw | 14:38 | |
| tflink | supposedly TC1 is scheduled for this week | 14:39 |
| tflink | but I can't find the date | 14:39 |
| tflink | oh, I think this schedule has been changed recently | 14:39 |
| tflink | yep, everything got shifted back by ~ 2 weeks | 14:40 |
| tflink | #info fedora 20 branch is now scheduled for "no later than 2013-08-20" | 14:41 |
| nirik | yes, it's moved out 2 weeks from the 'no later than' thing. | 14:41 |
| tflink | #info fedora 20 alpha TC1 is now scheduled for 2013-08-20 | 14:42 |
| tflink | #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/Schedule | 14:42 |
| tflink | #link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-20/f-20-quality-tasks.html | 14:42 |
| * tflink is reading through the changes marked in the meeting outline | 14:43 | |
| nirik | I think that was decided as the actual schedule... but perhaps it didn't get enough votes. | 14:44 |
| tflink | nirik: do you know if that was in a fesco ticket or meeting minutes? | 14:44 |
| nirik | in ticket, let me look | 14:45 |
| handsome_pirate | Either way, I'm +1 for more time | 14:45 |
| nirik | https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1095#comment:22 | 14:45 |
| nirik | so if folks don't think thats reasonable, do bring it up there. Otherwise the +2 week version is what we have | 14:45 |
| tflink | I'm sure there will be lots of happy us-ians about thanksgiving plans :) | 14:47 |
| tflink | nirik: we were planning on the old schedule, so another 2 weeks isn't going to be a horrible thing :) | 14:47 |
| nirik | yeah | 14:48 |
| * handsome_pirate will survive working through Thanksgiving | 14:48 | |
| nirik | ditto on both accounts. | 14:48 |
| tflink | the timing may get interesting for other reasons, but let's cross that bridge if/when we get there | 14:48 |
| tflink | so, the list of features identified for attention today are: | 14:49 |
| tflink | System Wide: | 14:49 |
| tflink | LabeledNFS | 14:49 |
| tflink | NetworkManagerBonding | 14:49 |
| tflink | NetworkManagerBridging | 14:49 |
| tflink | VisibleCloud | 14:49 |
| * handsome_pirate just cced himself to schedule ticket | 14:49 | |
| tflink | Self Contained: | 14:49 |
| tflink | NetworkManagerCLIAddConnection | 14:49 |
| tflink | Links available from wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20130805 | 14:50 |
| tflink | anything in particular that people feel should be discussed? | 14:50 |
| * tflink interprets silence as a "not so much" | 14:51 | |
| * handsome_pirate is looking through them | 14:51 | |
| tflink | I think adam had concerns about visable cloud and our lack of cloudy testing but I don't know more details than that | 14:52 |
| handsome_pirate | LabeledNFS may want some attention | 14:52 |
| tflink | s/visable/visible | 14:52 |
| tflink | handsome_pirate: yeah, that could cause issues with nfs sourced install media | 14:52 |
| tflink | in addition to any more testing | 14:52 |
| * tflink is looking forward to bridging support in NM | 14:53 | |
| handsome_pirate | +1 bridging | 14:53 |
| * atodorov has an old RFE open for VPN over NM bonding | 14:53 | |
| handsome_pirate | The question that keeps coming up with cloud is how do we test? | 14:53 |
| handsome_pirate | re: visible cloud | 14:54 |
| tflink | handsome_pirate: not sure, honestly | 14:54 |
| handsome_pirate | For instance, I don't have a credit card, so I can't spin up an Amazon instance to test it | 14:54 |
| tflink | I think that the expectation is that people are either willing to pay for EC2 or have access to some openstack thing | 14:54 |
| handsome_pirate | Ah | 14:54 |
| atodorov | handsome_pirate: I have RedHat backed EC2 account, also specialize in installation testing | 14:54 |
| handsome_pirate | atodorov: But, I don't | 14:55 |
| handsome_pirate | I don't work for RH | 14:55 |
| tflink | handsome_pirate: I really don't know what the plan is there - the cost barrier to EC2 testing is one issue, though | 14:56 |
| atodorov | handsome_pirate, tflink: reasouce issue aside, what do you want to test for cloud images on amazon ? | 14:56 |
| kparal | the cloud people tested it themselves in the past releases, I don't expect it to change this time | 14:56 |
| Southern_Gentlem | kparal, but better to communicate than assume | 14:57 |
| handsome_pirate | kparal: Well, if it's going to be an official (almost primary) release, should QA not give it a go? | 14:57 |
| tflink | kparal: I think the concern is that the cloud folks really aren't testing all that much and if we want to be advertising more, qa should be testing in some form | 14:57 |
| handsome_pirate | ^^ | 14:57 |
| tflink | atodorov: that's a good question, really. cloud isn't all that different from VMs other than initial boot | 14:57 |
| * ignatenkobrain here | 14:58 | |
| atodorov | tflink: agree, if it boots then it works :). for EC2 however we may want to test some of their AMI creation guidelines, like for example remove your ssh keys from the image | 14:58 |
| tflink | there's a lot of "OMG, it's cloud and therefore all complicated and stuff ..." which it is, but not as much from the users perspective | 14:58 |
| ignatenkobrain | hi all ! | 14:58 |
| * handsome_pirate gets that | 14:59 | |
| handsome_pirate | It's a glorified VM | 14:59 |
| tflink | atodorov: good point, especially with the concerns raised about digitalocean as of late | 14:59 |
| handsome_pirate | I just think that QA should pass off on it if we're going to be making it as visible as it's going to be | 14:59 |
| atodorov | tflink: I'm not aware of this. Can you send me a link pls | 14:59 |
| tflink | atodorov: http://missingm.co/2013/07/identical-droplets-in-the-digitalocean-regenerate-your-ubuntu-ssh-host-keys-now/ | 15:00 |
| tflink | handsome_pirate: sure, but now we've come full circle to "what do we want/need to test about cloud images?" | 15:01 |
| handsome_pirate | tflink: We don't exactly have much in the way of criteria, do we? | 15:01 |
| tflink | I'd love to test more of the qcow2 images, I *think* they're pretty much the same as AMIs content-wise | 15:01 |
| handsome_pirate | tflink: I assume that at least the minimal criteria would apply | 15:01 |
| tflink | handsome_pirate: because they're pretty much glorified VMs | 15:01 |
| handsome_pirate | tflink: Aye | 15:02 |
| handsome_pirate | As I said above | 15:02 |
| tflink | the fancy stuff is more os/distro agnosti | 15:02 |
| tflink | agnostic | 15:02 |
| handsome_pirate | It would be cool to make sure it works | 15:02 |
| tflink | handsome_pirate: yep, I liked the phrase so I'm stealing it :-P | 15:02 |
| handsome_pirate | heh | 15:02 |
| handsome_pirate | It's Creative Commons :) | 15:02 |
| tflink | anyhow, we're getting off into the weeds a bit | 15:03 |
| handsome_pirate | Aye | 15:03 |
| atodorov | #link http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/AESDG-chapter-sharingamis.html#public-amis-identity | 15:03 |
| tflink | #info we're still not clear on what exactly should be tested for cloud images other than "do they boot" | 15:03 |
| tflink | #info atodorov suggested that the EC2 AMIs could be checked for amazon's AMI creation guidelines | 15:04 |
| tflink | is ^^^ | 15:04 |
| tflink | phrased well enough to understand? | 15:04 |
| handsome_pirate | Aye | 15:05 |
| atodorov | yup | 15:05 |
| tflink | I wonder if that fits better into the automation stuff that the cloud SIG has been talking about | 15:05 |
| * tflink hasn't asked them about their progress on that front lately | 15:05 | |
| handsome_pirate | tflink: I can ping them about it | 15:05 |
| tflink | handsome_pirate: otherwise I'm sure it'll come up @ flock | 15:06 |
| handsome_pirate | True | 15:06 |
| tflink | #info there are also concerns about how to test cloud images w/o an EC2 account and whether we want/need to worry about granting access to either an account for testing or an openstack instance - will require more discussion | 15:07 |
| tflink | OK, any more concerns about cloud | 15:07 |
| tflink | ? | 15:07 |
| * adamw apparently can't read clocks | 15:07 | |
| adamw | morning folks | 15:08 |
| * tflink has always been of the opinion that clocks are overrated :) | 15:08 | |
| tflink | adamw: you've already been chaired, feel free to take over | 15:08 |
| * tflink isn't sure if there were specific concerns you had about the listed features | 15:08 | |
| * handsome_pirate thinks adamw should fire himself | 15:08 | |
| adamw | i'm with handsome_pirate on the visible cloud stuff, that's why i put that Change on the meeting list, fwiw | 15:08 |
| adamw | the others are just changes that are new since last meeting | 15:09 |
| adamw | tflink: you may as well keep driving | 15:09 |
| tflink | tagged nfs might be interesting for install testing | 15:09 |
| tflink | adamw: ok | 15:09 |
| tflink | any other concerns about visible cloud images? | 15:09 |
| * satellit afk | 15:10 | |
| tflink | #topic Fedora 20 Planning/Change Review - LabeledNFS | 15:10 |
| adamw | i haven't read all the scrollback, but my thinking was we might need to tweak the criteria a bit and maybe add a test case or two, just for the t hings that have been discussed | 15:10 |
| * nirik notes we could look at granting some qa folks access to the infra private openstack cloud... | 15:10 | |
| nirik | (if testing in openstack is desired) | 15:10 |
| adamw | check the image boots and any important 'first time steps' for cloud images fly | 15:11 |
| tflink | nirik: the thought was that it might be a better option than EC2 testing most of the time | 15:11 |
| tflink | it -> openstack | 15:11 |
| handsome_pirate | +1 | 15:11 |
| nirik | yeah, could be. | 15:11 |
| nirik | but they are quite different too... so both would be best. | 15:12 |
| tflink | nirik: true but I figured that we could get the common stuff done with openstack to reduce the amount of paid testing needed for EC2 | 15:13 |
| * nirik nods | 15:13 | |
| atodorov | tflink: we can use some spot instances in EC2 as well to reduce the cost further | 15:13 |
| tflink | #undo | 15:13 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x249ba610> | 15:13 |
| tflink | atodorov: true, I've certainly done that before and saved money | 15:14 |
| tflink | as long as you don't mind getting an instance ripped out from underneath you suddenly :) | 15:14 |
| tflink | which has happened to me | 15:14 |
| tflink | and others, I assume | 15:14 |
| atodorov | tflink: for personal use I set a high enough spot bid and haven't seen an instance shutting down on me | 15:15 |
| tflink | #info testing cloud images on infra's private cloud may be an option for some testing | 15:15 |
| tflink | atodorov: yeah, I learned about not setting the bid too low when my hadoop cluster fell over when instances got yanked :) | 15:16 |
| tflink | ok, anything else before moving on? we have ~ 15 minutes left | 15:16 |
| * handsome_pirate is good | 15:16 | |
| tflink | #topic Fedora 20 Planning/Change Review - LabeledNFS | 15:16 |
| tflink | I should have split off the cloud stuff as well but either way | 15:17 |
| tflink | my main question here is whether we want to account for labeled nfs for install tesitng | 15:17 |
| tflink | testing | 15:17 |
| * tflink apparently can't spell today | 15:17 | |
| handsome_pirate | We should | 15:18 |
| adamw | how do you mean 'account for'? | 15:18 |
| tflink | adamw: testing installs with and without | 15:18 |
| adamw | so basically run the NFS install tests against F20 servers? | 15:18 |
| tflink | not sure it'll make a huge difference, though. anaconda runs in permissive | 15:18 |
| tflink | adamw: it sounds like less of a concern when you put it that way | 15:19 |
| tflink | so probably not needing to call out install tests with labeled nfs so much | 15:19 |
| handsome_pirate | Still, it may not be a bad idea to do it once, just to check | 15:20 |
| adamw | sure | 15:20 |
| atodorov | tflink, adamw: anaconda runs in permissive but who handles access enforcement - client or server ? | 15:20 |
| tflink | atodorov: good question | 15:20 |
| tflink | server, I assue | 15:21 |
| tflink | NFSv3 is RPC based | 15:21 |
| atodorov | then it is possible to get a read error | 15:21 |
| tflink | I assume that NFSv4 is going to be similar that way | 15:21 |
| tflink | but I've never really gotten into how NFSv4 actually works | 15:22 |
| handsome_pirate | But, assumptions ... | 15:22 |
| tflink | yeah, I know | 15:23 |
| tflink | #info we should probably test nfs sourced installs from a F20 server with labeled nfs some | 15:23 |
| tflink | #undo | 15:23 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x26085f90> | 15:23 |
| tflink | #info we should probably test nfs sourced installs from a F20 server with labeled nfs some - it's not clear whether there could be read errors on the server even though anaconda runs in permissive | 15:24 |
| tflink | any other stuff to bring up before open floor? | 15:24 |
| tflink | atodorov: do you want to do a bit of an introduction? | 15:25 |
| atodorov | tflink: yes, I will be quick | 15:25 |
| tflink | #chair atodorov | 15:25 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: adamw atodorov kparal tflink | 15:25 |
| tflink | atodorov: go ahead, not sure what you want to call the topic | 15:26 |
| kparal | #topic Fedora QA and RTT cooperation | 15:26 |
| tflink | kparal: that works :) | 15:26 |
| atodorov | #info atodorov is joining (part time) Fedora QA and helping with installation related items short term. Long term I'd like to work on ifrastructure too. I have 6+ years of anacodna testing experience for RHEL | 15:26 |
| atodorov | that's the short info ^^^ | 15:27 |
| adamw | welcome! | 15:27 |
| handsome_pirate | Ahoy! | 15:27 |
| atodorov | I'm coming from RedHat's internal team that work on installation testing for RHEL | 15:27 |
| tflink | welcome to the party! | 15:27 |
| kparal | atodorov should be running some RTT tests in house and sending us results on the TCs and RCs | 15:27 |
| kparal | that could save us a ton of manual work, or at least identify some interesting bugs | 15:27 |
| atodorov | I will be working with kamil in the short term and bring some of the internal installation testing wisdom and automation to Fedora | 15:27 |
| tflink | I forget, what is RTT short for? | 15:28 |
| * handsome_pirate is happy to see more vict... I mean helpers | 15:28 | |
| kparal | Release Test Team | 15:28 |
| atodorov | RTT == Release Test Team | 15:28 |
| atodorov | aka Installation QE | 15:28 |
| tflink | thanks, I knew what they did, just not what RTT meant :) | 15:28 |
| tflink | atodorov, kparal: anything else you guys want to cover before moving into open floor? | 15:29 |
| atodorov | one more thing | 15:29 |
| atodorov | long term I'd like to see a Fedora QA lab (infrastructure) like we have for RHEL - all automated | 15:29 |
| atodorov | feel free to include me in meetings and such on this topic | 15:29 |
| tflink | atodorov: we're working on it :) | 15:30 |
| atodorov | I can do Python and Django and Bash coding ;) | 15:30 |
| kparal | ok, thanks | 15:30 |
| handsome_pirate | atodorov: See tflink's taskbot blog posts | 15:30 |
| atodorov | handsome_pirate: will do, still getting up to speed | 15:30 |
| * handsome_pirate has to go | 15:31 | |
| handsome_pirate | peace, y;all | 15:31 |
| tflink | atodorov: I'll have some questions about how RTT automates installs but that'll be for another time | 15:31 |
| * atodorov has worked on Beaker patches for EC2 in the past but they never got merged back I think | 15:31 | |
| atodorov | tflink: I will introduce myself on the mailing list and you can ping me via email | 15:32 |
| tflink | anyhow, we're over time so if there's nothing else that needs to be covered in meeting ... | 15:32 |
| tflink | atodorov: sounds like a plan | 15:32 |
| tflink | #topic Open Floor | 15:33 |
| tflink | Any items for open floor? | 15:33 |
| * tflink sets the Fedora QA patent-pending non-deterministic fuse for [0,5] minutes | 15:34 | |
| tflink | boom! | 15:35 |
| tflink | Thanks for coming everyone! | 15:35 |
| tflink | #endmeeting | 15:35 |
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