From Fedora Project Wiki

< QA‎ | Meetings


  • adamw (108)
  • Viking-Ice (44)
  • handsome_pirate (33)
  • roshi (24)
  • tflink (20)
  • kparal (9)
  • adamw_webchat (8)
  • jreznik (7)
  • zodbot (5)
  • dgilmore (4)
  • pwhalen (2)
  • sgallagh (2)
  • mkrizek (2)


  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 20 Beta status
  • Test Day status and help wanted
  • Possible elongated schedule for Fedora 21
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • tflink or someone competent to talk to releng about where to file bugs in the cloud .ks and whether it needs to be packaged in the distro - dgilmore will be making sure cloud kickstarts get added to spin-kickstarts package, cloud kickstart bugs should be reported against spin-kickstarts package going forward
  • adamw to talk to anaconda devs and get a build done for beta tc1 with live keyboard bug fixed - there was already a build ready that went into TC1. anaconda team was happy with that build for TC1
  • spstarr to work on iSCSI install testing - spstarr not present at the meeting, did not look like testing had been done for TC1
  • adamw to look into nightly fail - was already resolved soon after the meeting

Fedora 20 Beta status

  • Quite a few required tests had not yet been run for TC1, we needed to get to those for TC1/TC2
  • TC1 ARM images were DOA, dgilmore and pwhalen were dealing with it
  • We decided it would be a good idea to build TC2 soon

Test Day status and help wanted

  • 2013-10-08 would be virtualization test day, and Thursday 2013-10-10 would be GNOME test day
  • adamw and handsome-pirate volunteered to help out with graphics test week
  • Volunteers were still welcome to help run future Test Days

Possible elongated schedule for Fedora 21

  • Per ticket #1178, FESCo wanted solid justifications for possibly providing extra development time for F21
  • viking-ice suggested pushing to have anaconda development cycle adjusted to stabilize earlier in the cycle (would probably need a longer cycle to achieve)
  • tflink wanted to work on test automation and blocker bug app
  • handsome-pirate wanted to work on validation test result tracker app
  • adamw suggested that all those with solid ideas draw up a detailed and realistic proposal for getting somewhere concrete within an elongated release cycle and add them to the FESCo ticket, perhaps after list discussion

Open floor

  • viking-ice suggested a plan to assign 'QA team' members to specific packages or package groups for testing and triage tasks; further discussion needed

Action items

  • adamw to co-ordinate with anaconda team to get a new anaconda build done and roll TC2
  • tflink and handsome_pirate to write up detailed proposals for projects to be worked on in a possible longer f21 schedule and post / link to them in the trac ticket


adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Oct 7 15:00:18 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at 15:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00
adamw #topic Roll call 15:00
* adamw wonders what's ahoyhoy in czech 15:00
adamw ahojhoj, right? 15:00
* pwhalen is here 15:01
* kparal arrives 15:01
* mkrizek is here 15:01
mkrizek adamw: right :) 15:01
adamw ahojhoj it is, then 15:01
adamw ahojhoj from praha 15:01
* jreznik says ahoj to everyone :) 15:01
jreznik better to say ahoj, ahoj :) 15:02
adamw but less burns-ian 15:02
* tflink is 15:03
tflink here 15:03
jreznik adamw: yep 15:03
adamw tflink: aha, was wondering where you lot had got to 15:03
adamw don't you just hate north americans who never seem to be around 15:03
adamw roshi around? 15:04
tflink interesting how that changes as you cross the pond 15:04
roshi yes 15:04
* roshi here 15:04
adamw tflink: i've got huge piles of stuff to do while i'm here, sadly 15:05
adamw but today i've mostly just been wandering around prague being a tourist 15:05
adamw i imagine viking will be showing up as we go along 15:05
adamw #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:05
adamw "tflink or someone competent to talk to releng about where to file bugs in the cloud .ks and whether it needs to be packaged in the distro" - tflink, any news? 15:06
tflink yes, cloud kickstarts need to be merged into spin-kickstarts 15:06
tflink instead of forming a cloud-kickstarts package. IIRC, dgilmore was planning to do this 15:07
adamw ok, is someone in charge of that? 15:07
adamw welp, we need to make sure it happens by GA, i guess 15:07
adamw #info "tflink or someone competent to talk to releng about where to file bugs in the cloud .ks and whether it needs to be packaged in the distro" - dgilmore will be making sure cloud kickstarts get added to spin-kickstarts package 15:07
tflink so bugs like the i386 AMI one would be filed against spin-kickstarts 15:07
adamw #info bugs in cloud kickstarts should be filed against spin-kickstarts 15:08
* Viking-Ice here for a brief moment 15:08
adamw hi viking 15:08
adamw if you're only here briefly, anything in particular you wanted to bring up? 15:08
Viking-Ice well the schedule stuff but I'll probably miss that 15:09
adamw i threw that on as i understand from tflink that fesco wanted people to pitch them specific proposals for work that could be done in a longer cycle 15:09
Viking-Ice as well as I dont know how smart workflow it is to have Fedora bugs block RHEL bugs 15:09
adamw what bug is that? 15:09
adamw often, rhel qe clones bugs we find in fedora, for RHEL 15:10
adamw when you clone, the original blocks the clone by default 15:10
adamw and sometimes they don't remove that 15:10
adamw one reason i hate using clones, but eh 15:10
* handsome_pirate staggers in 15:10
Viking-Ice bug 947815 the blocker bug is open so it's fine ( for now ) 15:10
Viking-Ice but this could have been classic ACCESS DENIED 15:10
adamw i usually figure the rhel folks know what they're doing there 15:10
adamw i think it's more of a problem when rhel bugs block fedora bugs 15:11
adamw if you come across any of those where the rhel bug is private, give one of the rh folks a yell and we'll try and get it opened up or remove the block or something 15:11
adamw shouldn't ever be a case where fedora bugs depend on bugs that are rh-private for rhel reasons, i don't think (though sometimes fedora security bugs are embargoed, which is ok) 15:12
adamw if the fedora bug *blocks* a rhel bug, that's not really our problem - that's up to rhel people to deal with, we can just deal with the fedora bug\ 15:12
* handsome_pirate wonders why a RHEL bug would block a Fedora bug 15:12
adamw handsome_pirate: it's usually just a mistake or a cloning artifact or something when it happens 15:13
adamw so it can usually be fixed 15:13
adamw Viking-Ice: did you have any particular ideas or concerns about the schedule stuff? 15:14
Viking-Ice adamw, mostly that we need it to you know work on stuff 15:16
Viking-Ice but fesco seemed to only give crap about what tflink and dgilmore where working on from qa/releng perspective 15:17
adamw Viking-Ice: any particular 'stuff' you wanted to put on the list? 15:17
handsome_pirate Viking-Ice: What do you mean? 15:17
Viking-Ice adamw, qa community member work stuff like 15:17
handsome_pirate Viking-Ice: What are you talking about, FESCo giving tflink crap? I wasn't there, so a summary would be cool 15:17
Viking-Ice handsome_pirate, fesco was only giving crap ( only interested in ) the work tim and dennis were doing 15:18
jreznik well, that was my concern - that we need something to back up delaying schedule, not to do it just for "we can" but to have a real stuff done 15:18
sgallagh handsome_pirate: "Give a crap" vs. "giving crap". I love English. 15:18
sgallagh Viking-Ice: And no, we just were expecting that those two would be representing their respective teams. It was not exclusive. 15:19
adamw right, the idea is to nail down specific proposals, not just 'we got stuffs to do' 15:19
Viking-Ice adamw, as well as we really need to push anaconda development cycle on a different timeline 15:19
Viking-Ice so it's more or less ready when we branch 15:19
Viking-Ice for the branched release 15:20
adamw sounds like a slightly different topic, we'd have to discuss that with anaconda team i guess 15:20
Viking-Ice yes but to be able to do so we need that delay 15:20
Viking-Ice ( to be able to sync that stuff properly ) 15:20
handsome_pirate Viking-Ice: Do you have a link to the logs? 15:20
* handsome_pirate wants to read up on this 15:20
Viking-Ice it's there in the meetbot page 15:21
jreznik or meeting minutes are sent to -devel 15:21
* handsome_pirate will look 15:21
adamw Viking-Ice: i see, yeah, that links up 15:22
adamw ok, i'll try and work that in when the topic comes up, and maybe you can write a post to test@ / anaconda-devel-list@ 15:22
Viking-Ice adamw, if we are going to be able to handle 3 ( or more ) products we need to put anaconda to be on different schedule so we can free up time to focus on those products 15:22
handsome_pirate Oh, the whole Fedora as Three Products thing 15:23
Viking-Ice in relation to that ( or more ) products 15:23
* adamw feels like he's been on the moon for a week 15:23
Viking-Ice in anycase internal meeting so carry on I'll catch up when i get back 15:24
adamw alrighty 15:25
adamw getting back to follow-up... 15:25
* handsome_pirate notes that there still isn't a QA person on FESCo 15:25
* handsome_pirate will brb 15:25
adamw #info "adamw to talk to anaconda devs and get a build done for beta tc1 with live keyboard bug fixed" - there was actually already a build ready at the time, and that went into TC1. i did check if they were happy with the build going into TC1, and they were. 15:25
adamw handsome_pirate: i think no-one wants to stand. i know i don't. :P 15:26
adamw " spstarr to work on iSCSI install testing" - anyone heard from him? 15:26
* adamw checks the matrix 15:26
tflink he was talking about doing it, but I didn't hear anything more 15:28
adamw there's no result for beta tc1 15:28
adamw #info "spstarr to work on iSCSI install testing" - spstarr not around, looks like no result filed for tc1 15:29
adamw #info "adamw to look into nightly fail" - was already resolved when I got to it, I did a pre-TC1 live image test which worked fine 15:29
adamw #topic Fedora 20 Beta status 15:29
adamw we're missing quite a lot of tc1 tests 15:30
adamw would be nice if folks could get around to some of those (including me) 15:30
adamw #info quite a few required tests have not been run for TC1, we need to get to those 15:30
adamw looking at the blocker list, looks like we have some changes to anaconda to check out - could be about time for a TC2 with a new anaconda build, see if the DVD size is fixed 15:32
jreznik DVD size should be fixed, I hope 15:33
jreznik gimp-help langpacks were about 600 MB 15:34
adamw #action adamw to co-ordinate with anaconda team to get a new anaconda build done and roll TC2 15:34
dgilmore adamw: ill have to make some spins-kickstarts changes to work around a dracut bug on arm images 15:34
handsome_pirate adamw: I've run for FESCo and didn't get it 15:35
handsome_pirate adamw: I d/l the DVD iso and it was borked, need to redownload 15:36
handsome_pirate adamw: Checksum didn't pan out 15:36
pwhalen I'll be completing the rest of the ARM matrices today. The images themselves are doa due to the issue dgilmore mentions . I've filed a bug, added to blockers 15:36
adamw sorry...looks like i lagged out there 15:41
adamw #chair kparal tflink 15:41
zodbot Current chairs: adamw kparal tflink 15:41
adamw #info TC1 ARM images are DOA, dgilmore and pwhalen are dealing with it 15:42
adamw dgilmore: are you ready to roll with the fix whenever we go for a TC2? 15:42
dgilmore adamw: well i think the fix is reverting some things in dracut 15:43
dgilmore i have a workaround 15:43
dgilmore need to add dracut-generic-config to the arm images 15:43
adamw ah, i see 15:44
adamw alrighty, sounds like that's about it for Beta 15:46
adamw moving on.. 15:46
adamw #topic Test Day status and help wanted 15:49
adamw roshi: this was sort of for you, just to check in on where we stand with test days and see if you wanted to ask for people to help run some 15:49
roshi for sure 15:49
roshi tomorrow we have Virtualization test day - so if you can make it, that would be great 15:49
kparal gnome test day on thursday should be run by lbrabec and garretraziel 15:50
tflink what about NA timezones? 15:50
adamw #info tomorrow (2013-10-08) is virtualization test day, and thursday (2013-10-10) is GNOME test day; please come if you can 15:50
adamw isn't garretraziel NA? 15:51
tflink brno 15:51
kparal adamw: you'll meet him soon enough :) 15:51
roshi I'll be here for NA timezones on thursday 15:51
kparal roshi: thanks 15:51
kparal also the gnome developers promised their presence 15:51
adamw kparal: sigh, me getting confused again 15:52
adamw roshi: any more coming up later that need help? 15:53
roshi for the graphics test week, we need volunteers to run the scheduled days (requested here: 15:53
roshi we have test days throughout the coming weeks 15:53
adamw i can probably take gfx test week 15:54
adamw should be just after i get back to canada 15:54
kparal how about wayland? that one will need a ton of preparation and I haven't seen it in the request for help 15:54
roshi that's part of the gfx test week 15:54
roshi but yes, we need someone to run that - or we need to split it off and reschedule it 15:54
roshi until someone takes it 15:55
handsome_pirate roshi: I'll get it 15:55
roshi ok, great 15:55
kparal handsome_pirate: there are no previous test cases I think, so they need to be written from scratch 15:56
kparal best to consult this with gnome devs 15:56
handsome_pirate kparal: Roger 15:56
handsome_pirate kparal: I'll start on that this afternoon 15:56
handsome_pirate Actually 15:56
kparal I think that wayland test day can't be done without a heavy participation of gnome devs 15:57
handsome_pirate kparal: I've started poking at Gnome devs 15:57
adamw most likely, and x devs. 15:57
adamw ok, moving on, since time is tight... 15:57
adamw #topic Possible elongated schedule for Fedora 21 15:57
tflink #link 15:58
adamw so as mentioned earlier, fesco is/was wanting specific proposals of work that could be done in a longer release schedule 15:58
adamw #info fesco is wanting specific proposals of work that could be done in a longer release schedule: see 15:59
handsome_pirate roshi: I want to make sure of the date for Wayland: 2013-10-25 15:59
adamw we can certainly add ideas/proposals to that ticket; is there anything we want to kick around? 15:59
adamw we have viking's proposal from earlier about using a longer release to try and shift anaconda development to stabilize earlier, but that'd really need anaconda dev buy-in obviously 15:59
handsome_pirate adamw: I'm +1 for that one 16:00
adamw are there any other ideas? work on any of the tooling we have underway at the moment, blocker bug app etc? 16:00
roshi handsome_pirate: yep - it's already on the wiki and fedocal 16:00
adamw tcms stuff? 16:00
tflink adamw: that had been in the back of my mind 16:00
handsome_pirate adamw: Yeah, time to work on tools would be really amazing 16:00
tflink i got reamed out a little at the last fesco meeting for not having a specific plan, so we'd need more specifics 16:01
adamw well, sounds like we need to come up with fairly realistic and specifically timed-out proposals 16:01
adamw rght 16:01
tflink I didn't realize they were expecting more than proposals for automation or I'd have mentioned it earlier 16:01
adamw and it'll help our credibility if we can realistically commit and stick to anything we propose 16:01
handsome_pirate The question becomes, what do we want to focus on? 16:02
handsome_pirate Also, assignments 16:02
adamw shall i give you two action items? 16:02
adamw yeah\ 16:02
handsome_pirate adamw: Might as well 16:02
handsome_pirate tflink: I'll ping you this afternoon about it 16:03
adamw is there one specific thing you'd like to work on above others, and can commit realistically to getting something concrete done on in, say, 3 months? 16:03
handsome_pirate Well, it is afternoon now 16:03
adamw if so, write up a good solid proposal for it, post it to the list and link from the ticket, i'd say 16:03
handsome_pirate adamw: Testtrack 16:03
handsome_pirate The test results tracking app 16:04
* Viking-Ice jumps back in 16:07
adamw_webchat sorry folks, i'm lagging super-bad 16:09
adamw_webchat someone else want to take over chair to close out the meeting? 16:09
tflink sure 16:09
adamw #action tflink and handsome_pirate to write up detailed proposals for projects to be worked on in a possible longer f21 schedule and post / link to them in the trac ticket 16:10
adamw_webchat there, got that through 16:10
adamw_webchat if anyone else has concrete and achievable ideas for work to be done in a longer schedule, please add them too, of course 16:10
tflink maybe we should collect them outside the trac ticket first 16:11
Viking-Ice I'll try to throw on paper the anaconda stuff and get that discussion going with the anaconda developers 16:11
adamw_webchat right, if it needs discussion and refinement, we can work on that on the list 16:11
tflink so we present a more coherant proposal to fesco 16:11
adamw_webchat but we only have two days till fesco meeting 16:11
tflink yep 16:11
* handsome_pirate will get on it after lunch 16:11
adamw_webchat vik: right, that one's going to need buy-in from them of course, it's a no-go if they don't want to do it 16:11
Viking-Ice I'm pretty sure we can floor any kind of product plans if they will not buy into it 16:12
adamw_webchat heh, true 16:12
tflink #chair adamw_webchat 16:12
zodbot Current chairs: adamw adamw_webchat kparal tflink 16:12
tflink is there anything else we'd like to cover? we're already over time 16:12
Viking-Ice we need to somehow find time for that and our largest time consumer is anaconda 16:12
adamw #topic open floor 16:13
adamw and as tflink said, make it snappy :) 16:13
Viking-Ice so the general Idea I have surrounding qa community member is to merge the role of tester and triager 16:13
Viking-Ice since the bottom line is that both skill sets are more or less required ( for proper reporting and triaging ) 16:14
adamw the thing with triage is that it seems like no-one actually wants to do any... 16:14
Viking-Ice as things stand now yes 16:14
Viking-Ice there seems to be little interest in it 16:15
Viking-Ice but we should be able to change that 16:15
Viking-Ice by merged these roles ( hopefully ) 16:15
adamw but sure, so far as the whole group membership thing goes, that's a sensible approach 16:16
adamw so what exactly is the idea in concrete terms? people who read through Join and post up self-introductions can get triagers group membership, or what? 16:16
Viking-Ice well we need to rotated qa community members between components 16:16
Viking-Ice so you know people wont just stick themselves to the most popular component 16:16
adamw it's a bit hard to tell people what to do 16:17
adamw but sure, i like the idea of trying to get qa folks to take on some triage work 16:17
Viking-Ice well people sign up to a community member role and he gets assigned a week task ( or something ) testing and triaging x component 16:18
Viking-Ice then next week he rotates to the next one 16:18
roshi who would manage all that? 16:18
roshi setting up roles, notifying people 16:18
roshi etc 16:18
roshi ? 16:18
roshi or are you thinking some form of automated tool? 16:19
Viking-Ice you mean creating the schedule 16:19
roshi yeah 16:19
Viking-Ice yeah we need to automate the schedule creation 16:19
adamw well, and then making sure any of it actually happens... 16:19
roshi getting new things added to the schedule and whatnot 16:19
tflink week-long rotations seem like they would be a bit on the fast side - might it be better to leave people in a place for longer to gain more experience? 16:19
Viking-Ice tflink, not sure that will work 16:19
roshi I would think 2 week min if that route was taken 16:19
Viking-Ice we need to cover components on full products 16:20
roshi can you define "components" and "full products?" 16:20
Viking-Ice group of components make up x product 16:20
roshi (just so I know exactly what you're meaning - me being a new guy) 16:20
Viking-Ice so for example I first task would be to cover the components that make up the core/baseOS then extend to the next level on top of that 16:21
Viking-Ice etc 16:21
roshi ok 16:21
Viking-Ice I mean our 16:22
Viking-Ice there is no I in team 16:22
roshi do we have a list of all that, or is that something that should be created? 16:22
adamw we have the critpath list 16:22
Viking-Ice yup we can start with that 16:22
* handsome_pirate wonders if anyone has considered how much extra work this is going to be 16:22
adamw we used to try and cover that with triage under bz 16:22
adamw well, it's not like we'd expect 100% coverage right away or anything, i do like the idea of trying to at least get some kind of systematic coverage of different components 16:23
adamw but we're a long way over time at this point 16:23
adamw Viking-Ice: it'd be nice if you'd give us a day's advance notice of big ideas so we can work them into the meeting schedules :P 16:23
Viking-Ice adamw, well perhaps we should just schedule a brain farting session on etherpad and take something to build upon from that 16:24
adamw blue sky thinking! 16:25
handsome_pirate Ponies! 16:25
handsome_pirate Unicorns! 16:25
Viking-Ice so let's close this meeting since the general idea is out there and try to hold a spesific qa member meeting to start working out the larger vision 16:25
handsome_pirate Rainbows! 16:26
adamw sure, we could do that sometime 16:26
adamw Viking-Ice: sounds like a plan 16:26
* adamw sets fuse 16:26
adamw thanks for comin, folks 16:27
adamw #endmeeting 16:27

Generated by 2.12.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!