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Meetbot link:


  • kparal (101)
  • Viking-Ice (45)
  • tflink (36)
  • jreznik (35)
  • roshi (9)
  • pschindl (5)
  • zodbot (4)
  • nirik (3)
  • satellit (3)
  • sgallagh (2)
  • robatino (2)
  • mkrizek_ (1)


  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 20 Beta retrospective
  • Fedora 20 Final planning
  • thoughts so far
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC2) - not reported yet, Viking-Ice will try to reproduce and report it this week

Fedora 20 Beta retrospective

  • CommonsBugs page was not up-to-date, any help would be welcome

Fedora 20 Final planning

  • Official schedule link
  • FESCo approved a week shorter schedule for Final
  • Final change deadline is now 2013-11-26
  • TC1 compose would be done when releng was ready thoughts so far

  • jreznik from Base WG would like to arrange a meeting with other teams members to discuss the future processes

Open floor

  • A new blockerbugs app release would happen soon
  • blockerbugs app will have an API
  • taskbot will be renamed to taskotron to avoid name trademark clashes

Action items

  • roshi to help out adamw with CommonsBugs page
  • roshi to file Final TC1 compose request
  • viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC5)


kparal #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 16:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Nov 11 16:00:52 2013 UTC. The chair is kparal. Information about MeetBot at 16:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00
kparal #meetingname fedora-qa 16:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 16:00
kparal #topic Roll Call 16:01
kparal who's here? 16:01
* satellit listening 16:01
* mkrizek_ is here 16:01
* jreznik is lurking 16:02
* pschindl is here 16:02
* kparal pokes tflink and roshi 16:02
* tflink is here 16:03
* Viking-Ice is here 16:03
kparal #chair pschindl tflink roshi 16:03
zodbot Current chairs: kparal pschindl roshi tflink 16:03
* roshi is here 16:03
kparal let's roll 16:04
kparal #topic Previous meeting follow-up 16:04
kparal " viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC2) " 16:04
kparal there's bug number (bad bad adamw), but since we release Beta I guess we're good 16:05
Viking-Ice not much happened in that regard since I was dealing with death in the family 16:05
kparal *no bug number 16:05
kparal Viking-Ice: sorry to hear that 16:05
kparal Viking-Ice: what's the bug number? 16:05
Viking-Ice kparal, thans 16:05
Viking-Ice mean thanks 16:05
Viking-Ice no bug number 16:05
Viking-Ice I did not get around to duplicate the issue I encounter from tc5 16:06
kparal ok, understood 16:06
kparal do you want to keep the action item? 16:06
Viking-Ice yeah this is a final blocker for sure ( and would have been a beta blocker ) if still present 16:06
kparal #info viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC2) - not reported yet, Viking-Ice will try to reproduce and report it this week 16:08
kparal #action viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC5) 16:08
kparal ok, that's all from last week 16:08
kparal moving on 16:08
kparal #topic Fedora 20 Beta retrospective 16:08
kparal #info adamw already sent an announcement to test-announce names "Fedora 20 QA Retrospective page is up" 16:09
kparal the words of the classic say: "We use the retrospective page to track things that went well and things 16:09
kparal that didn't go so well during the Fedora 20 validation process, and for 16:09
kparal tracking ideas we have but don't have time to act on during the rush of 16:09
kparal doing validation (that's the wishlist). 16:09
kparal Please, add any feedback you have of this type to the retrospective 16:09
kparal page! There are instructions on the page for adding feedback." 16:09
kparal do you have anything Beta-related that you would like to discuss here and now? 16:10
tflink how's the commonbugs page coming? 16:10
kparal let's see 16:11
kparal not updated in a month 16:11
jreznik resize bugs should be added there at least 16:12
* satellit update the non-blocking tests for sugar-desktop and soas. I added an external link to some suggestions 16:12
kparal a lot of bugs not yet documented: 16:12
kparal #info CommonsBugs page is not up-to-day, any help would be welcome 16:12
kparal does somebody feel like having an action item for this? :) 16:13
* tflink volunteers roshi 16:14
kparal eggscelent! 16:14
roshi works for me 16:14
kparal #action roshi to help out adamw with CommonsBugs page 16:14
roshi it was on the list of things to work on :) 16:14
kparal thanks, roshi 16:14
kparal pschindl: remind me to ask our interns to help out as well if needed 16:15
pschindl kparal: ok 16:15
* satellit that link is here 16:15
tflink btw, it should really be done before tomorrow 16:15
kparal hmm, right, tomorrow is the release day, right? 16:16
tflink yep 16:16
roshi ok 16:16
kparal ok, no interns then 16:16
kparal robatino: maybe you'd like to discuss your proposal of forwarding FEs into the next milestone? 16:17
kparal kind of related 16:17
robatino i thought it should be on the mailing list? 16:17
Viking-Ice why should we not do that ? 16:17
kparal the last email I saw was roshi proposing a vote in the meeting 16:18
Viking-Ice FE's are FE's there is nothing wrong with moving them between milestones it's not like we are obligated to pull them in, in that next milestone anyway 16:19
jreznik but once on the list, especially auto generated list put into the ticket... 16:19
kparal the question was whether to move them to accepted or proposed state for the next milestone 16:19
robatino all blockers and FEs are regularly re-evaluated anyway, correct? seems like the risk is minimal, especially since if they're automatically promoted, it would be at the beginning of the next stage 16:20
jreznik kparal: proposed - I don't have any objection 16:20
tflink we don't always review the proposed FEs, though. my only concern would be if the list got huge 16:20
kparal I think roshi has a good point that between Alpha-Beta it is not that risky and we could auto-accepted. but for Final, I wouldn't recommend this 16:20
jreznik bigger issue I'd say are that bugs that were swaying from being blocker, not being blocker, then forgotten, popping for several other releases... 16:21
Viking-Ice tflink, huge list == longer meeting time ;) 16:21
Viking-Ice + I think this or next release cycle we be the last as we know it anyway 16:21
roshi yeah - is going to change things 16:22
Viking-Ice after that main focus will be on whatever baseOS picks decides 16:22
kparal robatino: as far as I know, we don't spend time with acceptedFEs during blocker review meetings. so it's usually adamw's call when creating the request 16:22
kparal so, I give +1 to roshi's reply in that thread 16:23
kparal if more people want to voice their opinion, please do that in that thread 16:24
kparal alright 16:24
kparal let's move 16:25
kparal #topic Fedora 20 Final planning 16:25
kparal it seems we should receive first Final compose tomorrow 16:25
Viking-Ice that's fast 16:25
kparal 16:25
tflink they took a week off of final 16:26
Viking-Ice no rest for the wicked ay 16:26
tflink er, moved final freeze back one week 16:26
kparal but I haven't seen any compose request, or maybe adamw hasn't subscribed me 16:26
Viking-Ice tflink, not forward 16:26
kparal so, I don't know if it's going to happen 16:26
Viking-Ice who's bright idea was that 16:26
Viking-Ice jreznik, you? 16:26
kparal the go/nogo is Thu 2013-12-05 16:26
kparal so, 3 weeks and a bit 16:26
jreznik Viking-Ice: everyones from the go/no-go, actually I was not as sure about that but... 16:27
kparal #info FESCo approved a week shorter schedule for Final 16:27
kparal Viking-Ice: if we slip, we slip. nothing changes in that regard 16:27
kparal in that distant possibility that we have no blocker, we release before Christmas 16:28
kparal would be definitely nice 16:28
jreznik with this decision, TCs should come really early, so anyone to file the request? 16:28
jreznik kparal: would be nice, really... 16:28
Viking-Ice let's call that yule or winter solstice christmas is fake and filled with coca cola santas around the world 16:28
sgallagh kparal: For clarity, we approved the shorter schedule to avoid the holidays. If any slip occurs, it means the release must come after the new year. 16:28
tflink I don't think there's a point in filing the TC request before stuff moves from updates-testing to stable 16:29
kparal sgallagh: thanks for clarification 16:29
jreznik tflink: yep, that was the question how far we are 16:29
kparal since adamw is out today, does somebody have experience with filing compose requests? does somebody want to take it? 16:29
Viking-Ice sgallagh, slipping past new year would have been betterr 16:29
Viking-Ice no point in stressing everyone in QA 16:29
tflink infra doesn't unfreeze until tomorrow, so a push won't happen until then 16:29
tflink infra/releng 16:29
sgallagh Viking-Ice: Isn't stress part of the job description? (kidding) 16:29
Viking-Ice kparal, the workflow for that seemed to be utterly borken 16:30
tflink has anyone talked to the anaconda devs on whether moving things up is practical? 16:30
* tflink is thinking about the resize-happy-fun-time stuff 16:30
Viking-Ice it looked like the same infra ticket was always re-used 16:30
kparal #info releng unfreezes tomorrow, the compose request serves no purpose today 16:30
Viking-Ice mean releng ticket 16:30
pschindl tflink: I talked to vpodzime and he looked quite happy about that 16:31
tflink if that code isn't going to be done in time, moving freeze up is just going to create churn and other PITA activities 16:31
jreznik tflink: well, that resize stuff is pretty bad but before we knew it, fesco already changed schedule and people on go/no-go were still in favour of it 16:31
kparal #info final change deadline is now 2013-11-26 16:31
jreznik tflink: for anaconda - I'd say there's no big difference - it's always post freeze work 16:31
tflink jreznik: just more pressure for them and more churn for the rest of us 16:32
* nirik tries to read up, but notes that updates is already flowing. We unfreze them after all the items from the beta were in stable. 16:32
kparal so, if there's no point in creating the request today, I'll create an action point for adamw to create it tomorrow (or once everything is ready) 16:32
jreznik tflink: well, I asked on the go/no-go if we still want to proceed with that change, nobody objected even knew about the resize issues 16:32
* tflink should have been paying better attention 16:33
kparal nirik: so, can Final TC1 compose start happening today? 16:33
tflink oh well, same old, same old, I guess :-/ 16:33
nirik kparal: I suppose it could, sure. 16:33
* Viking-Ice should have attended that meeting but death and all... 16:33
kparal #info correction: Final TC1 compose can be fired off today 16:34
kparal so, who wants to create the ticket? 16:35
jreznik Viking-Ice: compared to real life happening, this is just Fedora 16:35
kparal seems to cover only Beta, a new ticket should be created for Final 16:35
tflink correct, we create new releng tickets for each milestone 16:35
jreznik sgallagh: btw. the agreement was - if Beta slips one more, we will aim next year, otherwise it would be non-sense one slip = new year for final as we short it a bit just to gain this one week as buffer... but we agreed not to try to release a christamas gift :) 16:36
kparal tflink: roshi: can one of you take this please? I guess guys from CZ want to disconnect asap 16:36
tflink kparal: unless pschindl wants to do it 16:37
jreznik btw. for the question why I reopened the Beta ticket - with dennis, we agreed that for transparency and trackability, we want it to be stated somewhere and ticket looked like a good candidate 16:37
roshi sure, I can take it 16:37
pschindl tflink: I won't be near my computer this evening. So not today :( 16:38
kparal roshi: thanks again 16:38
kparal #action roshi to file Final TC1 compose request 16:38
roshi no problem 16:38
roshi :) 16:38
kparal roshi: please fill the same CC as in the Beta ticket 16:39
roshi will do 16:39
kparal ok, anything else regarding Final schedule? 16:39
kparal #topic thoughts so far 16:40
kparal the agenda says: " The proposal has been moving along quite rapidly, and we haven't yet come up with any kind of formal evaluation or plan for input into the WGs " 16:40
kparal unfortunately, I haven't followed WGs closely 16:40
tflink has anyone been keeping up with all the WGs? 16:41
kparal anyone can say something interesting? 16:41
Viking-Ice for the most part 16:41
* jreznik is trying to follow up with WGs 16:41
Viking-Ice things are just progressing on the path one ( or at least I ) expected 16:41
kparal Viking-Ice: do you have some comments related to QA field? 16:42
jreznik but we as Base WG have the same issue - we need input from other WGs/groups so we probably need some sort of higher level group consisting from WGs members, QA and other teams for coordination 16:42
Viking-Ice kparal, things are no where there yet 16:42
Viking-Ice kparal, but each WG will have to handle that anyway for their "products" 16:42
jreznik so how would QA feel about being part of this group? not sure about how to implement it, but definitely worth discussion 16:43
Viking-Ice we focus only on core/base 16:43
kparal jreznik: does it have to be a formal group with regular meetings, or can we just set some time and meet to discuss stuff? 16:43
jreznik Viking-Ice: that's the question - I think teams like QA, design etc. should back up all the products as a service for them 16:43
Viking-Ice jreznik, what are you proposing exactly 16:43
tflink "qaaas" :) 16:44
jreznik Viking-Ice: I'm not sure - see what kparal asked, how formal it would be, regular or on demand... but at least in the beginning all parties should be in touch regularly 16:44
Viking-Ice jreznik, we arent' going to be backing up anything officially or provide resources explicitly to those groups 16:44
* jreznik is asking people what they think about it before doing formal proposal to board/fesco 16:44
Viking-Ice they willl reach out into these communities and ask for assistance if no responds to that they have to do the work themselves 16:45
jreznik Viking-Ice: why? I think it's the only way how we can succeed... share as much resources, do not fragment more than needed 16:45
Viking-Ice jreznik, because we dont have any resources to share 16:46
Viking-Ice and we should not do that explicitly 16:46
Viking-Ice sub-communities need to stand on their own feed and wg's are nothing more then sub-communites ( just with a bit of direction ) 16:47
kparal jreznik: personally I'm afraid I don't have time to sit in yet another committee / discussion group / something. but if we set up a time for multiple teams to meet and discuss the problems, I would probably attend. and I guess other QA members as well 16:47
kparal maybe start with one-shot meetings? 16:47
tflink yeah, the timing of this isn't great 16:47
jreznik Viking-Ice: for this, we don't have resources :) 16:48
jreznik kparal: that's my concern about overcommiting people 16:48
* nirik thinks it's hard to talk about QA'ing something where we don't yet know whats being produced/delivered. 16:48
Viking-Ice jreznik, I think tflink or adamw pointed that out at flock 16:48
Viking-Ice matt promised to pull a rabbit out of hat and spawn resources like a wild fire 16:49
tflink Viking-Ice: I don't remember the conversation going quite like that 16:49
jreznik but at least for initial picture where we stand, it would be great to meet - at least that one shot, everyone has some expectations he assume :) 16:49
Viking-Ice jreznik, that things and how they stand are simple RH product manager magically thought hey could tap into QA resources to handle this failing to understand those resources dont exist 16:51
* jreznik will try to propose it this week, just would like to speak with more people to get a clue how to make it... mostly it seems, people are in favor of it 16:51
kparal #info jreznik from Base WG would like to arrange a meeting with other teams members to discuss the future processes 16:51
Viking-Ice I've been trying to get some goddam answers from the anconda people what they can or cannot so we can find space to handle multiple "products" but getting answer from them is like pulling a candy from a baby 16:52
jreznik Viking-Ice: agree, something I'm trying to tell people here, just there are no PM involved :) 16:52
Viking-Ice jreznik, I will be going head against the baseWG with my FedoraOS proposal 16:52
jreznik Viking-Ice: share it pls :) 16:52
Viking-Ice when it's ready 16:53
jreznik Viking-Ice: when it's ready is late as WGs are progressing 16:53
Viking-Ice jreznik, well I asked FESCO to hold the presses until I could present it to the community 16:54
Viking-Ice and they rickrolled me apparently 16:54
jreznik we are bit OT now 16:54
* tflink has a couple of things for open floor 16:55
jreznik but you know, showing stuff early make sense in communities 16:55
kparal alright, anything else to add? 16:55
kparal #topic Open floor 16:56
kparal tflink: what do you have? 16:56
tflink as a heads up, we're going to be doing a new blockerbugs release soon (hopefully in the next several days) 16:56
Viking-Ice jreznik, being allowed to come up with alternative proposal otthen RH product manager living in their ivory tower in phonex tossing prd's which arent applicable to open community between themselves makes no sense but here we are... 16:56
kparal #info a new blockerbugs app release will happen soon 16:57
tflink it should be pretty transparent, but the login mechanism has changed and a few minor-looking changes came in 16:57
tflink the biggest thing is the API support from GSoC 16:57
kparal tflink: do we already have some consumer? 16:57
jreznik Viking-Ice: RH product managers don't touch Fedora at all :) 16:58
* pschindl has to leave. 16:58
kparal pschindl: see you 16:58
tflink kparal: that ended up not happening for GSoC and nobody's written anything yet 16:58
kparal ok 16:58
tflink should be pretty easy, though 16:58
kparal #info blockerbugs app will have an API 16:58
tflink the other thing is that taskbot is going to be getting a name change 16:59
Viking-Ice jreznik, and applying prd's ( without mrd's ) just appeared from nowhere aha 16:59
kparal we had the old one for way too long :) 16:59
tflink the name 'taskbot' did not get approval from legal, so we're going to be changing to 'taskotron' 16:59
tflink which does have approval from legal 16:59
kparal heh. doesn't that violate the Tron brand? :) 17:00
jreznik taskotron :) 17:00
tflink kparal: well, legal did approve the use of the name :) 17:00
kparal #info taskbot will be renamed to taskotron to avoid name trademark clashes 17:00
jreznik kparal: you can say it comes from cyclotron :) 17:00
tflink fortunately, we got this taken care of before anything got into production 17:01
tflink so a pain, but it could have been so much worse :) 17:01
kparal taskotron is cool, love it :) 17:01
* kparal needs to check english pronunciation, however 17:02
* jreznik should leave now to move home before another late evening meeting... 17:02
kparal jreznik: thanks for coming 17:02
kparal tflink: anything else? 17:02
kparal or anyone? 17:02
tflink nope, that was it 17:02
kparal ok, thanks for coming, everyone 17:03
kparal #endmeeting 17:03

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