From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
- adamw (159)
- cmurf (67)
- Viking-Ice (64)
- jreznik_ (21)
- kparal (15)
- roshi (12)
- satellit (9)
- robatino (9)
- zodbot (7)
- tflink (6)
- pwhalen (5)
- drago01_ (4)
- cwickert1 (3)
- satellit_f20 (3)
- jreznik (3)
- sgallagh (2)
- cwickert (2)
- mkrizek (1)
- pschindl (1)
Agenda
- Previous meeting follow-up
- Matrix revisions
- Fedora 20 Final status
- Open floor
Previous meeting follow-up
- jreznik to move forward with proposing switch to 'feature preview mode' for thinp - this was proposed to fesco but deferred to anaconda team on the basis thinp isn't actually the area giving us many problems right now, though everyone recognizes the issue of overwork for anaconda storage devs. kparal posted mockups to anaconda-devel-list
- cmurf and kparal to discuss status of btrfs with anaconda team - aside from kparal's mockup, not done yet (cmurf was ill). adamw had an informal discussion with anaconda devs where the idea of btrfs as a tech preview was not ruled in or out, but it may be quite late to try and change it for F20
Matrix revisions
- We have test cases to check the checksums for most media, but not for the cloud images
- adamw said he would draft new test cases and submit them to the list
Fedora 20 Final status
- As of the meeting, final freeze was the following day. Final TC2 was undergoing testing, and TC3 was expected soon. The blocker list was quite long, and TC2 test coverage was not complete
- Several important-looking critical path updates did not have sufficient karma to go stable yet. We agreed to send a mail asking for karma to try and get them out before the freeze
- Two KDE-related bugs were proposed as blockers; we agreed to check with KDE team that they were under control
Open floor
N/A
Action items
- adamw to draft a new test case and matrix row for validating cloud image checksums
- adamw to make sure the desktop tests are completed for TC2
- jreznik to check in with KDE team if they're on top of the two proposed KDE blockers or if help would be appreciated
- cmurf to send a quick email to test-announce asking folks to test and karma critpath updates ahead of freeze tomorrow
IRC Log
| adamw | #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Nov 25 16:00:14 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| * adamw thwaps meetbot with a wrench | 16:00 | |
| adamw | #meetingname fedora-qa | 16:01 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 16:01 |
| cmurf | seriously | 16:01 |
| adamw | #topic Roll call | 16:01 |
| adamw | cmurf: seriously. i have the golden touch | 16:01 |
| adamw | OK, who's about for some loosely-labelled 'fun'? | 16:01 |
| cmurf | no i figured meetbot has needed backside of the head treatment for months | 16:01 |
| * jreznik will be ready soon, a dog needs to go out for a sec | 16:01 | |
| * Viking-Ice fetches coffee | 16:01 | |
| * roshi is here | 16:01 | |
| * mkrizek is here | 16:02 | |
| * tflink is here | 16:02 | |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: mine's a double double | 16:02 |
| cmurf | oh yeah coffee, brb | 16:02 |
| * adamw leaves two minutes for everyone to get coffee | 16:05 | |
| adamw | i'm a goddamn humanitarian | 16:05 |
| cmurf | or a realist | 16:05 |
| adamw | heh | 16:06 |
| adamw | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 16:06 |
| adamw | "jreznik to move forward with proposing switch to 'feature preview mode' for thinp" | 16:07 |
| adamw | well, i know about that one | 16:07 |
| Viking-Ice | the not so ready thinp ;) | 16:07 |
| * pschindl is late but here | 16:07 | |
| adamw | #info "jreznik to move forward with proposing switch to 'feature preview mode' for thinp" - this was proposed to fesco but rejected on basis thinp isn't actually the area giving us many problems right now, though everyone recognizes the issue of overwork for anaconda storage devs | 16:07 |
| jreznik | yeah, kparal sent a mockup to anaconda devel list | 16:07 |
| cmurf | i think thinp is more of an unknown, the issue is that it's caused other LVM problems that are still getting flushed out | 16:08 |
| adamw | hmm, that was a bit off | 16:08 |
| adamw | #undo | 16:08 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0xa328dd0> | 16:08 |
| adamw | #info "jreznik to move forward with proposing switch to 'feature preview mode' for thinp" - this was proposed to fesco but deferred to anaconda team on basis thinp isn't actually the area giving us many problems right now, though everyone recognizes the issue of overwork for anaconda storage devs | 16:08 |
| jreznik | seem reasonable and in case of big issues we will follow up with anaconda guys | 16:09 |
| adamw | cmurf: sorry i couldn't do a better job representing your view at the meeting, didn't have any references to hand | 16:09 |
| cmurf | ? | 16:09 |
| Viking-Ice | what was anaconda's dev take on it | 16:09 |
| adamw | #info kparal posted mockups of how it could be done to anaconda-devel-list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/anaconda-devel-list/2013-November/msg00049.html | 16:10 |
| cmurf | which view? | 16:10 |
| * kparal arrives late | 16:10 | |
| Viking-Ice | looks noticeable | 16:10 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: dlehman doesn't think it's necessary to put thinp in feature preview mode | 16:10 |
| Viking-Ice | and btrfs ? | 16:11 |
| adamw | but he understands where we're coming from in general, that there's just too much storage stuff | 16:11 |
| adamw | i'm not sure if anyone made a definite decision about btrfs, have to look back in the logs | 16:11 |
| adamw | anyone else remember? | 16:11 |
| * cmurf got sick, kparal did all the work | 16:11 | |
| cmurf | (mockup, etc) | 16:11 |
| kparal | I didn't see any decision about btrfs | 16:11 |
| kparal | and no reply to my mockup either :) | 16:12 |
| cmurf | so we haven't had a btrfs throwdown and i think we just try to skate through to final | 16:12 |
| cmurf | mkfs.btrfs flags a big all caps EXPERIENTAL banner at the user | 16:12 |
| Viking-Ice | well then we add all the thinp issues to the blocker list | 16:12 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: like what? i couldn't actually find any when fesco asked | 16:12 |
| Viking-Ice | regardless if they are some corner cases | 16:13 |
| cmurf | it's completely reasonable that the installer notify users | 16:13 |
| adamw | but yeah, if you're aware of any that look blocker-y, they get to be blockers | 16:13 |
| cmurf | even if it's a belated addition | 16:13 |
| Viking-Ice | yes I would think so | 16:13 |
| cmurf | most of the LVM, conventional or thinp, problems aren't data risking things, they're boot problems | 16:14 |
| cmurf | and mounting problems | 16:14 |
| cmurf | so you get cases where an LV just can't be found or activated | 16:14 |
| Viking-Ice | right | 16:14 |
| Viking-Ice | and those should be blockers | 16:14 |
| * pwhalen is here | 16:14 | |
| Viking-Ice | if it prevents boots or causes issues at bootup they are clear blockers | 16:15 |
| adamw | so for the record: http://ur1.ca/g3h88 is the conversation we had in #anaconda shortly after the fesco discussion | 16:15 |
| cmurf | Viking-Ice: agreed, although then to be consistent the same applies to btrfs | 16:15 |
| adamw | it kinda spun off in a different direction quite quickly, but on the topic, dlehman said "it might be nice to make both thinp and btrfs tech previews...of course it'd mostly have been nice if I'd done it for alpha" | 16:16 |
| adamw | so i think he's of the opinion that it's too late at this point | 16:16 |
| adamw | but we didn't make an absolutely definite decision | 16:16 |
| Viking-Ice | the only point it's to late is when we have already released ;) | 16:16 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: +1 | 16:16 |
| adamw | heh | 16:16 |
| roshi | +1 | 16:17 |
| adamw | so in the agenda, we have this: "cmurf and kparal to discuss status of btrfs with anaconda team" | 16:17 |
| adamw | did you guys have any discussions i haven't covered yet, or shall i #info the informal one from above? | 16:17 |
| cmurf | well i was delerious on illness so that didn't happen | 16:17 |
| adamw | owch :( hope you're better! | 16:17 |
| kparal | I had no separate discussion on btrfs | 16:17 |
| cmurf | i'm fine | 16:17 |
| adamw | ok | 16:17 |
| Viking-Ice | that would have been intersting discussion had it taken place high on pain meds lol | 16:17 |
| cmurf | no pain meds | 16:17 |
| cmurf | no sick meds | 16:18 |
| cmurf | coffee, tea, water, and candy | 16:18 |
| jreznik_ | and as I said, kparal sent a proposal how to deal with experimental stuff :) gimp monkey! | 16:18 |
| cmurf | LOL | 16:18 |
| * satellit_f20 here late listening | 16:18 | |
| kparal | I think the important fesco messages is that they can do whatever they see fit, even with btrfs | 16:18 |
| Viking-Ice | so what they overule us ? | 16:18 |
| adamw | #info "cmurf and kparal to discuss status of btrfs with anaconda team" - aside from kparal's mockup, not done yet (cmurf was ill). adamw had an informal discussion with anaconda devs where the idea of btrfs as a tech preview was not ruled in or out, but it may be quite late to try and change it for F20. | 16:18 |
| jreznik_ | kparal: yep and that we don't have anything like official tech preview but if anyone wants to say this is experimental, it's still ok | 16:18 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: the 'they' in that sentence was 'anaconda team', i believe | 16:19 |
| kparal | yes | 16:19 |
| adamw | basically, fesco left it up to the anaconda devs what to do | 16:19 |
| cmurf | they are excellent delegators | 16:19 |
| adamw | so shall i set an action on cmurf/kparal again for this week, or what? | 16:19 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, does not change matter there is no point in release criteria if it can be overruled | 16:19 |
| sgallagh | adamw: We left it up to the anaconda devs to decide if the bugs can be fixed for final or not. | 16:19 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: there's nothing in any discussion about overriding release criteria | 16:19 |
| adamw | sgallagh: thanks | 16:19 |
| sgallagh | If not, I'm still of the opinion that sticking (experimental) next to the drop down is ok | 16:20 |
| kparal | I think it's anaconda's decision right now | 16:20 |
| Viking-Ice | sgallagh, there is also the bootup ( lvm/dracut/systemd ) so this is not limited to anaconda only | 16:20 |
| adamw | well i'm kinda of the opinion that the anaconda team's a bit like a log on a river | 16:20 |
| adamw | unless it gets some fairly serious poking from the outside they just keep rolling along | 16:20 |
| kparal | :) | 16:20 |
| adamw | if everyone just says 'eh, leave it to anaconda' and waits on anaconda team to make decisions, what will happen is forward momentum - we'll just keep going with what we've got | 16:21 |
| cmurf | true | 16:21 |
| adamw | i don't mind that, so long as (as viking points out) no-one else minds release slips... | 16:21 |
| Viking-Ice | we seem to be dealing with a serious lvm issue in 1026860 ( which has not yet been proposed as a blocker ) | 16:22 |
| kparal | poking volunteers welcome, I don't feel like doing that this week | 16:22 |
| Viking-Ice | throw that in misture with lvm thinp ;) | 16:22 |
| cmurf | .bug 1026860 | 16:22 |
| Viking-Ice | mean mixture | 16:22 |
| zodbot | cmurf: Bug 1026860 Instantiated service is not run, it stays in inactive state (and systemd debug log does not state why) - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1026860 | 16:22 |
| cmurf | it may have been caused by the lvm thinp changes | 16:22 |
| adamw | that one is proposed as a blocker, isn't it? | 16:22 |
| jreznik_ | it's proposed | 16:23 |
| adamw | it's in the 'needs more info to vote on' pile | 16:23 |
| jreznik_ | I talked to Peter today | 16:23 |
| cmurf | long hang for bugzilla... | 16:23 |
| Viking-Ice | oh right missed comment 18 | 16:23 |
| jreznik_ | I have an answer for your question how severe it is, he promised me to put it into bz, not sure it's there | 16:23 |
| adamw | that'd help | 16:23 |
| jreznik_ | also he's now in touch with systemd guys as he needs help | 16:23 |
| Viking-Ice | Well Václav has pinged Kay about it | 16:24 |
| jreznik_ | adamw: what he says - in short - mostly hw raid should be impacted | 16:24 |
| Viking-Ice | being a race condition in udev so for some it will work others it fails | 16:24 |
| Viking-Ice | if the moon correctly aligns with the sun boom you cannot boot | 16:25 |
| adamw | okay, we've taken a long time on this...so for now, the ball is in anaconda team's court, and if no-one does anything definite we'll carry on with the current state where we have to consider bugs in all anaconda storage mechanisms, inc thinp and btrfs, as potentially release blocking. if anyone is very unhappy about that or the consequences of it, please raise it on list or with anaconda team. | 16:25 |
| cmurf | ack | 16:25 |
| adamw | jreznik_: hwraid? interesting. | 16:25 |
| adamw | #topic Matrix revisions | 16:26 |
| adamw | so, this one comes from robatino | 16:26 |
| adamw | robatino: are you around? | 16:26 |
| robatino | yes, but not qualified to make the changes | 16:26 |
| jreznik_ | adamw: sorry, BIOS RAID to be correct... | 16:26 |
| adamw | jreznik_: ah, that makes more sense. | 16:26 |
| jreznik_ | I'll ask him to put it into bz, or I can try to translate it | 16:26 |
| cmurf | imsm raid | 16:26 |
| cmurf | what's the problem? | 16:27 |
| jreznik_ | but let's move on - adamw is right - if anyone is not happy with the latest decision, should poke on the anaconda list | 16:27 |
| Viking-Ice | I thought we had move to the matrix ;) | 16:28 |
| cmurf | yes | 16:28 |
| jreznik_ | Viking-Ice: ah, missed that, sorry :D | 16:28 |
| cmurf | bios raid matrix.... | 16:28 |
| cmurf | what's the problem? | 16:28 |
| * jreznik_ read it as Martix revisions :) | 16:28 | |
| adamw | i was hoping robatino would be around | 16:28 |
| adamw | hehe | 16:28 |
| adamw | yes, we need to revise martix! | 16:29 |
| cmurf | he just replied | 16:29 |
| adamw | oh yes, there he is | 16:29 |
| adamw | lost in the flood | 16:29 |
| adamw | hi robatino! so the idea is https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-November/118791.html , yes? | 16:29 |
| robatino | i just pointed out the problem. i don't know how to fix it | 16:29 |
| Viking-Ice | hmm sounds like something that should be automated | 16:30 |
| kparal | we should put it into " Cloud images" section | 16:30 |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: no doubt about that. but it is not | 16:30 |
| adamw | i guess we'd just write a test case that looks like the ARM one and put it in the matrix | 16:30 |
| Viking-Ice | kparal, what why | 16:30 |
| Viking-Ice | ( the cloud section ) | 16:30 |
| robatino | technically, you could say that verifying checksum files shouldn't be in the matrix at all, since ot | 16:30 |
| robatino | it's not a problem with the images themselves | 16:30 |
| kparal | we can add a test case for Images/ checksums into Cloud section in the matrix | 16:31 |
| Viking-Ice | yes it should not be in the matrix | 16:31 |
| adamw | robatino: nah, i wouldn't buy that: the checksums are part of the compose process | 16:31 |
| robatino | but they can be fixed if they're broken, unlike the other tests | 16:31 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, images and their checksums should be validated at compose time | 16:31 |
| adamw | the compose process doesn't just produce images, it produces the package trees and metadata bits, seems to make sense to consider checking all of those part of 'release validation' | 16:31 |
| Viking-Ice | this does not belong in our matrix | 16:31 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: everything _should_ be checked before it gets to QA | 16:32 |
| cmurf | roshi: your dual boot windows test has been in progress for at least 18 hours, want me to fill it in? I've already done it, it works. | 16:32 |
| adamw | happily it isn't and I can feed my cat :P | 16:32 |
| roshi | haha | 16:32 |
| roshi | sorry - thought I updated that | 16:32 |
| roshi | but yeah, it works | 16:32 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, in perfect pony world yeah *everything* | 16:32 |
| robatino | i should point out that the checksum tests in general have 2 parts: verifying a checksum file, and verifying an embedded checksum. for the Images/ dir tests, only the first applies | 16:33 |
| robatino | only the second part is a problem with the images themselves | 16:33 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: anyway, we already check the checksums for everything else, so it's clearly inconsistent that we don't do it for the cloud images | 16:33 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, yup | 16:34 |
| adamw | robatino: why do you say you're not qualified to fix this, btw? it's pretty straightforward | 16:34 |
| robatino | i don't know anything about cloud images. anyway, i'm sleep deprived now | 16:34 |
| adamw | robatino: just write a test case that's a copy of the ARM one with the appropriate changes, and draft a change to the template page that adds a row for that test case to the 'cloud images' table | 16:34 |
| adamw | robatino: hell, i didn't know anything about cloud images when i put them in the matrix for alpha either. :P | 16:34 |
| adamw | but i can take the #action if you like. | 16:35 |
| Viking-Ice | speaking of cloud hows testing from that community going? | 16:35 |
| robatino | please do | 16:35 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: they've tested things when we've pinged them that they need testing, at least. ARM seems a little more proactive | 16:35 |
| * satellit yum update does work in non-blocking soas via terminal no need to grey out box | 16:36 | |
| pwhalen | adamw, seems!? :) | 16:36 |
| adamw | no cloud image test results filed for Final TC1 or TC2 | 16:36 |
| adamw | pwhalen: i'm being diplomatic :) | 16:36 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, not worried about arm, how the cloud community proceeds dealing with their stuff is an indicator how well the output from WG's will be handled | 16:37 |
| adamw | #action adamw to draft a new test case and matrix row for validating cloud image checksums - https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-November/118791.html | 16:37 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: welp...there's the answer | 16:37 |
| jreznik_ | for cloud, especially to related to first class cloud images change... | 16:37 |
| adamw | moving on to try and keep under time... | 16:38 |
| adamw | #topic Fedora 20 Final status | 16:38 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, welp they did not do so well with the alpha phaze | 16:38 |
| tflink | IIRC, most of the f20 cloud test results have been submitted by nirik, red_alert or me | 16:38 |
| tflink | but I could easily be wrong there | 16:38 |
| adamw | sounds about right to me | 16:38 |
| adamw | #info TC2 is currently undergoing testing. latest anaconda is one build newer than TC2, TC3 will probably come soon | 16:39 |
| cmurf | freeze is this week? | 16:39 |
| adamw | #undo | 16:39 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x86e9850> | 16:39 |
| tflink | cmurf: tomorrow | 16:39 |
| adamw | #info TC2 is currently undergoing testing. latest anaconda is two builds newer than TC2, TC3 will probably come soon | 16:39 |
| adamw | #info Final freeze is tomorrow | 16:40 |
| cmurf | oh goody | 16:40 |
| jreznik_ | cmurf: yes | 16:40 |
| adamw | #info blocker list is still pretty full, and there is missing test coverage on TC2 still | 16:41 |
| adamw | it'd be good if we can get ARM and cloud testing done for TC2, and the Final desktop tests - i wish we'd got those done earlier, it's getting late | 16:41 |
| adamw | #action adamw to make sure the desktop tests are completed for TC2 | 16:41 |
| adamw | anything on f20 status that i've not covered? | 16:42 |
| adamw | anything anyone sees as a potential big problem on the horizon or anything? | 16:42 |
| pwhalen | adamw, is there an area in particular for arm? believe I only need some more desktops, but not release blocking | 16:42 |
| cmurf | geoip might not be working | 16:42 |
| adamw | pwhalen: oh, sorry, i may have been looking at out-of-date pages | 16:42 |
| adamw | cmurf: i believe it's supposed to be fixed for live in tc2. does seem better here. | 16:43 |
| pwhalen | base and install are complete | 16:43 |
| cmurf | https://geoip.fedoraproject.org/city | 16:43 |
| cmurf | i get bogus values | 16:43 |
| adamw | oh, upstream geoip | 16:43 |
| cmurf | null for everything | 16:43 |
| jreznik_ | there are a few potential bombs in proposed blockers... | 16:43 |
| cmurf | wrong lat long | 16:43 |
| adamw | cmurf: works fine here... | 16:43 |
| cmurf | *shrug* | 16:43 |
| adamw | jreznik_: which ones worry you particularly? | 16:43 |
| cmurf | worked fine for beta | 16:43 |
| jreznik_ | adamw: that plasma related one seems like upstream is fighting without any success | 16:44 |
| * satellit I see honolulu sometimes in California locations esp if wireless AP used | 16:44 | |
| kparal | satellit: that should be fixed in newest anaconda build | 16:44 |
| satellit | k | 16:44 |
| cmurf | there is a langtable update that fixes the default if geoip isn't working | 16:44 |
| adamw | jreznik_: the KDE-on-ARM one? yeah, that worries me a little | 16:45 |
| jreznik_ | yep | 16:45 |
| pwhalen | me too | 16:45 |
| adamw | that and https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1004621 are potential major KDE issues | 16:45 |
| jreznik_ | and then the systemd long boot one | 16:45 |
| * adamw throws 1004621 on the proposed blocker list | 16:45 | |
| adamw | jreznik_: do you want an action item to check with KDE folks if they think they're well positioned to cope with those two bugs, or if there's something we (fedora) can do to help? | 16:46 |
| jreznik_ | ltinkl and guys are on the arm related one, in touch with upstream | 16:46 |
| jreznik_ | adamw: sure | 16:46 |
| adamw | #action jreznik_ to check in with KDE team if they're on top of the two proposed KDE blockers or if help would be appreciated | 16:47 |
| adamw | cmurf: that would be https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2013-21912/langtable-0.0.21-1.fc20 ? | 16:48 |
| cmurf | correct | 16:49 |
| * satellit other languages in anaconda banners? | 16:49 | |
| adamw | that went into tc2, i believe. | 16:49 |
| adamw | it's why the tc2 images got a bit bigger - but desktop still juuuuust comes out undersize. | 16:49 |
| * satellit no browser in LXDE? | 16:50 | |
| adamw | there's a bug report for that, right? | 16:50 |
| cmurf | langtable-0.0.19-1.fc20.src.rpm is in TC2 | 16:50 |
| adamw | cmurf: yes, tcs get what's stable except for FE/blocker fixes that are requested | 16:50 |
| adamw | cmurf: 0.0.21 won't make final unless it gets lots of karma today, or an FE bug | 16:50 |
| cmurf | oic | 16:51 |
| adamw | cmurf: so...you know what to do :) | 16:51 |
| cmurf | alright well i'll give it karma even though it doesn't fix my bug | 16:51 |
| cmurf | haha | 16:51 |
| adamw | =) | 16:51 |
| adamw | as long as it works, +1 is okay | 16:51 |
| * adamw can't find the bug for LXDE comps issues, anyone? | 16:51 | |
| adamw | oh, got it | 16:51 |
| adamw | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1033746 , it's proposed as an FE. so looks like we're on top of it, satellit | 16:52 |
| satellit | k | 16:52 |
| * adamw CCs cwickert | 16:53 | |
| adamw | OK...anything else for f20 status? | 16:54 |
| cmurf | should an email requesting critpath bug fix testing and karma go out? | 16:54 |
| cmurf | better to have more of those rolled into TC3? | 16:55 |
| adamw | cmurf: sure, wouldn't hurt - you want to send one? | 16:55 |
| cmurf | no | 16:55 |
| cmurf | haha | 16:55 |
| kparal | :)) | 16:55 |
| cmurf | but ok | 16:55 |
| adamw | wrong answer, try again | 16:55 |
| cmurf | I have no idea how to send that big blast variety wth the long list of things to test | 16:55 |
| adamw | #action cmurf to send a quick email to test-announce asking folks to test and karma critpath updates ahead of freeze tomorrow | 16:55 |
| adamw | #undo | 16:55 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x9cb6d90> | 16:55 |
| adamw | wait - are we talking about the blocker status email? | 16:56 |
| adamw | i was gonna do one of those | 16:56 |
| adamw | i thought you rather meant a general 'freeze is tomorrow, let's get as many updates karma'ed and pushed stable as we can' mail | 16:56 |
| cmurf | i meant the later | 16:56 |
| cmurf | latter | 16:56 |
| Viking-Ice | so regarding lxde is someone ( beside cwickert1 ) maintaining that | 16:57 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: cwickert is the main lxde guy. i can commit fixes for something trivial like this, though, if necessary. | 16:57 |
| adamw | #action cmurf to send a quick email to test-announce asking folks to test and karma critpath updates ahead of freeze tomorrow | 16:57 |
| adamw | cmurf: you might want this link: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/critpath?unapproved=True&release=F20&_csrf_token=01503b08d8edf246fad28011d6f319301dde86dd | 16:57 |
| adamw | grr | 16:58 |
| Viking-Ice | if I'm not mistaken that compose issue has been with us in this develoeprs cycle from day one which is a strong cwickert does not have the time to maintain it anymore | 16:58 |
| adamw | https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/critpath?unapproved=True&release=F20 | 16:58 |
| Viking-Ice | strong indicator | 16:58 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: he wasn't CCed on the bug till now, and the bug was only filed a couple of days ago | 16:58 |
| * cwickert1 still has one update pending for LXDE | 16:59 | |
| adamw | so yeah, folks - even ahead of cmurf's mail, take a look at https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/critpath?unapproved=True&release=F20 and karma karma karma | 16:59 |
| cwickert1 | it's critical path, so feedback is welcome | 16:59 |
| cwickert1 | s/feedback/karma | 16:59 |
| adamw | #info critpath update for f20 that are pending karma are https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/critpath?unapproved=True , please test and karma them | 16:59 |
| adamw | cwickert1: that would be https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2013-21536/lxpanel-0.6.1-1.fc20,lxlauncher-0.2.2-4.fc20,pcmanfm-1.1.2-3.D20130830gitfc8adaab77.fc20,libfm-1.1.2.2-3.fc20,menu-cache-0.5.1-1.fc20 , right? | 17:00 |
| adamw | cwickert: and i take it you'll take a look at the 'missing browser' bug now I cc'ed you? | 17:00 |
| cwickert | adamw: yes and yes | 17:00 |
| adamw | roger | 17:00 |
| adamw | i'll try and build an LXDE live with that update today and get you some karma then | 17:00 |
| cwickert | I think I already filed that myself | 17:00 |
| adamw | OK | 17:01 |
| adamw | #topic open floor | 17:01 |
| adamw | anything for open floor, quickly? | 17:01 |
| * satellit_f20 add test for Soas like the ones on sugarlabs.wiki? | 17:02 | |
| Viking-Ice | well the fact is that there will be no cleanup taking place in this WG nonsense which means we will remain equally fucked as we are now | 17:02 |
| Viking-Ice | ( and have been ) | 17:02 |
| * adamw having trouble keeping up with the WG stuff as they all seem to be scheduling their meetings in the middle of the goddamn night for him | 17:03 | |
| Viking-Ice | so reporters have to know what they will be signing themselves up for | 17:03 |
| adamw | but i saw that apparently there just isn't enough change so now they want to do variant release cycles as well | 17:03 |
| * satellit_f20 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Fedora/Sugar_test_cases | 17:03 | |
| adamw | satellit: the weekly reminder :( sorry i still didn't do that yet, i suck | 17:04 |
| * satellit thanks for looking at it | 17:04 | |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, variant release cycle is inevitable it's just taking longer for some people to realize it + from the looks of it dennis is pulling an Jesse keating so that wont happen anyway | 17:04 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: anything *specific* on the WG stuff that we can constructively discuss/take action on? | 17:05 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, we wont have to things will stay the same from the looks of it which is the reason I walked out of the serverWG since the process is not about any actual change | 17:06 |
| Viking-Ice | at least no change that matters to us | 17:06 |
| Viking-Ice | and will improve things for us here in QA | 17:06 |
| adamw | :/ | 17:06 |
| adamw | i keep resolving to try and stay more plugged into that process but it's not working out. ah, well. | 17:07 |
| adamw | anyone who does want to make an effort to show up to some of the WG meetings and keep tabs on the process, it'd be useful | 17:07 |
| tflink | I've been trying to show up for some of the meetings | 17:07 |
| Viking-Ice | well I'm keeping taps on it's proceeding | 17:07 |
| Viking-Ice | in the server/base stuff | 17:07 |
| adamw | yeah, thanks guys | 17:08 |
| roshi | I can take notes in a WG | 17:08 |
| Viking-Ice | there are no notes to take for us as things stand now and wont be heck we dont even know what they expect from us but I guess our answer will be no anyway | 17:09 |
| Viking-Ice | := | 17:09 |
| Viking-Ice | ;) | 17:09 |
| roshi | looks like we need someone to watch the workstation WG and cloud? | 17:09 |
| adamw | roshi: seems like it | 17:09 |
| adamw | i should really be going to workstation | 17:09 |
| roshi | I can watch workstation | 17:09 |
| Viking-Ice | the cloud WG arguable should not exist the workstation WG is just the usual gnome | 17:09 |
| * roshi has only a little experience with cloud | 17:09 | |
| * satellit I could not test as requires $ to get account | 17:10 | |
| adamw | ah, i see the workstation WG has set its very first goal as something that's basically impossible to achieve, whee. | 17:10 |
| Viking-Ice | ;) | 17:10 |
| drago01_ | adamw: which is? | 17:10 |
| adamw | oh well, don't think there's any more specific action needed here | 17:11 |
| adamw | "Upgrading the system multiple times through the upgrade process should give a result that is the same as an original install of Fedora Workstation." | 17:11 |
| adamw | that's never going to happen. | 17:11 |
| tflink | wow | 17:11 |
| roshi | o.O | 17:11 |
| * satellit offline installs are very intrusive | 17:11 | |
| cmurf | more like in the F21 time frame i think the WG's need to be given periodic "recruit for QA" assignment | 17:12 |
| roshi | +1 cmurf | 17:12 |
| adamw | sorry, how do you mean? | 17:12 |
| drago01_ | adamw: not with the current way we do upgrades | 17:12 |
| Viking-Ice | They are aiming for longer support life cycle as well in the serverWG without any buy from devs ( I received few emails where devs contacted me and ask me if the serverWG would sign them up for something they where not willing to do ) | 17:12 |
| drago01_ | adamw: but it isn't impossible to do | 17:12 |
| adamw | drago01_: or any way anyone's done upgrades ever, so far as I'm aware. | 17:12 |
| adamw | that 'how do you mean' was aimed at cmurf | 17:13 |
| drago01_ | adamw: yeah my point is "just upgrade every installed package" is not good enough ... we need some kind of thing that defines what is supposed to be there | 17:13 |
| jreznik_ | Viking-Ice: that concerns me too... | 17:13 |
| Viking-Ice | in anycase things are nowhere near ready for *any* involvement of the support community in the distribution | 17:13 |
| Viking-Ice | QA/Releng/Marketing/Design | 17:13 |
| cmurf | adamw: as in the WG's need to help us recruit some of their own people for testing the things they're asking everyone to build, and that will then need testing | 17:14 |
| Viking-Ice | jreznik_, yeah that was one of the reason I proposed different repos per server roles and walked away as well. I dont want to have that on my consciousness signing people up for something that they are not willing to do. | 17:14 |
| cmurf | in the F21 cycle, our test matrix is going to positively explode | 17:14 |
| Viking-Ice | cmurf, no not for us | 17:15 |
| Viking-Ice | we only care about baseWG | 17:15 |
| Viking-Ice | stuff and the installer | 17:15 |
| cmurf | hence why i'm saying in the f21 time frame because we don't even know such things about installer derivatives | 17:15 |
| adamw | cmurf: could you explain "more like in the F21 time frame i think the WG's need to be given periodic "recruit for QA" assignment" a bit mroe? i didn't quiter grok it | 17:15 |
| Viking-Ice | what ever the layers maybe on top of that from the WG's have to be covered by those WG's | 17:16 |
| cmurf | adamw: I mean for the WG to be assigned, periodically, a recruitment drive for WG participants to participate in QA. | 17:16 |
| adamw | ah, i see | 17:17 |
| Viking-Ice | cmurf, not how the process works | 17:17 |
| adamw | the way we try and get desktop SIGs and cloud/arm to help with testing those areas currently | 17:17 |
| adamw | that certainly sounds like something that should happen, but as viking says, i'm not sure how we 'assign' things to WGs. | 17:17 |
| cmurf | propose that they assign the task to themselves then | 17:18 |
| cmurf | they can say no | 17:18 |
| Viking-Ice | we just write release criteria and ensure they follow it, it's up to them if they meet those release criteria or not ( if not no release ) | 17:18 |
| adamw | sounds reasonable, though we're still a long way ahead of any actual products to test | 17:18 |
| Viking-Ice | very long way ahead | 17:18 |
| adamw | ok, we're 20 mins over time...anything else? | 17:18 |
| Viking-Ice | not from me | 17:18 |
| * cmurf is going to murder more coffee bean deities to create the divine elixir. | 17:19 | |
| * roshi is going to do the same | 17:20 | |
| adamw | you heartless people | 17:21 |
| * adamw goes to play with his new tablet some more I MEAN TEST TC@ | 17:21 | |
| adamw | thanks for coming, folks | 17:21 |
| adamw | #endmeeting | 17:21 |
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