From Fedora Project Wiki

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 07-MAY-07

Status of the Merge

  • f13
  • I'm poking at some software bill wrote a while ago to build package repos out of Koji.
  • I'm somewhat close to having a repo of packages created in a test environment.
  • expected to be at this point on Thursday, but well, we all forgot about ppc64
  • some of the extras importing didn't go as quickly as I 'd hoped.
  • plan for now I _think_ it will be koji -> repo of packages as rawhide
  • people can use pungi to make installable trees, I'll probably make one somewhere.
  • I need to work on the multilib stuff to make sure it's multilibbing like distill did.
  • no plan yet around needsign/package signing
  • ppc64 things are still uploading/importing; build status is unknown
  • found a few things that didn't have matching NVRs did not build--libupnp-1.4.3-1.fc7 for example
  • warren
  • volunteers to be "bit mover" while f13 is at the Red Hat Summit
  • jwb
  • need a document explaining how to get your package into the release... something like "If you did FOO before the merge, here is how to do FOO now"
  • will take a crack at the before/after document
  • lengthy technical discussion around using auto-add script and building packages with koji
  • all builds must be performed manually
  • no specific decisions were made
  • notting will work on getting automated builds working over the next three days
  • notting
  • there's some stuff that won't build due to various errors - i've filed some bugs, but still have more to file
  • ocaml and maven are being worked on
  • things that BR mono will need ifarched
  • i'll try and attack maven again later *ugh*
  • everything on the missing dep tracker should be OK now
  • 1224 SRPMS built so far, give or take a few
  • using ibiblio--mmcgrath and f13 will discuss at Summit

mirror layout and getting bits to said mirror

  • f13
  • Since we're still doing Extras for 6/5, perhaps we just tie into that rsync process to get development synced as well? Compse rawhide to the place that is servied by buildsys: rsync?
  • symlinks or hardlinks are the plan.
  • nirik: proposed mirror layout changes look sane
  • No formal decisions made

Building Rawhide

  • not going to have a post-fc7 rawhide until fc7 goes gold
  • important to be able to use rawhide to tackle F7 blocker BZs
  • rawhide push will be good for checking EVR and broken deps issues.
  • can't make rawhide automated today; will try to enable eventually. No date set.
  • nirik: should we eventually revisit signing rawhide?
  • would possibly make it so yum could detect what repo a package was from and help with all the repotag nightmares?
  • f13:
  • I'd like rawhide to be signed, with the buildsystem throwaway key but that'll involve an automated signing system.
  • we have a signing system; manual or automated
  • discussion of getting a "real" rawhide working before we branch and also how/when to branch
  • no decision reached

F7 Blocker List

Schedule Slip

  • f13
  • not entirely convinced we'll be ready for deep freeze by Thursday, though probably 'frozen enough to branch cvs'
  • okay with more slipping because what we just did (merge) was _huge_ and we're not coming back online as fast as I hoped we would.
  • can't feel good about deep freezing only a couple days after a merged repo shows up.
  • decision reached:
  • slip 1 week on the freeze and re-evaluate blockers next week
  • no explicit decision made on GA date
  • state that merger took longer/more effort than panned for
  • need more time for rawhide to settle down a bit and maintianers to get their builds in.

Build System Outage

  • outage on Wed for about an hour and a half. We're getting some new filers installed.
  • Time: TBD

IRC Transcript

f13ok, who's here.  Role call.<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
* rdieter here<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
Idea.png f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Team Meeting<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
* wwoods here<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
* mclasen is probably going to drop out at some point<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
* mmcgrath here<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
* warren here<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
poelcatpresent<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jwbhere<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* jeremy is here<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jeremy(mostly)<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
warrenDo we need davej?<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jwbwhen do we not need davej?<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jeremyhe may still be in nyc<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13heh<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13we could use a notting.<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13I"m txting him.<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
rdieterf13: the previous summoning failed? :)<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
warrencrazy kids<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13rdieter: indeed<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
warrenrdieter, if we summon now, we'll be stuck for 5 minutes in the summoning animation.<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jwb"r u thr"  "ur hot.  need u now"<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13jwb: creepy.  it's like you're watching my phone over my shoulder.<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
jwbkoji has altered my state of mind and granted me new found powers<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
rdieterall bow down to the almighty koji-bot.<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
wwoodsheh jwb is a mighty build-taggin' machine<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
warren* jwb is now known as koji-bot.<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
jwbphear me<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsso how far are we from having koji-rawhide?<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
f13hrm, no notting, so whatever.<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
f13Status of the merge.<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
f13wwoods: I'm poking at some software bill wrote a while ago to build package repos out of Koji.  I'm somewhat close to having a repo of packages created in a test environment.<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jwbthe "natives formerly known as extras maintainers" are getting restless<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
mmcgrathbrb<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13yeah, tell me about it<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13I expected to be at this point on Thursday, but well, we all forgot about ppc64<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13and some of the extras importing didn't go as quickly as I 'd hoped.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
wwoodsso is the plan to do koji--pungi-->rawhide all on the external machines, and everyone will mirror from there?<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
warrenWith people gone at the summit, I *hope* we can get at least rawhide trees going before they leave.  we would be in MUCH better shape.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13wwoods: actually the plan for now I _think_ it will be koji -> repo of packages as rawhide<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
warrenI'm going to be stuck playing "keep developers happy" while things are broken this week.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
wwoodsah, right on<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13and then people can use pungi to make installable trees, I'll probably make one somewhere.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13warren: given that I'm gone at the summit too, I hope that as well.<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoodsso what are the roadblocks for making the repo from koji? I'm happy to help<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13I may spend many a summit night doing stuff with it though.<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13wwoods: really it's just tweaking the code.<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13I need to work on the multilib stuff I think, to make sure it's multilibbing like distill did.<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
warrenare we settled on the new tree structure for the mirrors?  There was a question about updates-testing, was that resolved?<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13and we need some what to weed out noarch packages that aren't supposed to be on said arch (have to trace back to srpm and look at ExcludeArch/ExclusiveArch in the srpm)<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13warren: what was the question?<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
warrenf13, somebody's mail indicated that updates-testing was missing from the new tree sturcture<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
* warren finds the mail<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13If somebody wants to play bit-mover and move some bits around for mirror staging that would be kind of cool.<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
f13<a href=""></a>  I see testing there.<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
warrenf13, ok, I dno't know what he was talking about.  nm<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
warrenf13, I can play bitmover, but I need more context of what needs to be done and where.<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
warreni'll be here all week<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
warrenPeople will blame me for things being broken in both core and extras =)<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
* wwoods is also not going to the summit<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
warrenok good wwoods can share the blame.<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodstotally<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13notting is on the way.<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
* warren waits five minutes.<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13warren: unfortunately bit moving is rather involved :(<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
warrenf13, I want to know what is involved<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13warren: to be perfectly honest I'm not entirely sure which part needs to be done where.  I drafted the layout, but didn't necessarily write down where each move has to happen.<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodslooking over the tasklist - what's the plan for needsign / package signing?<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13wwoods: open question.<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jwbwhilst we wait... is someone working on a "Here's wtf you need to do with koji" doc for former-Extras package maintainers?<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13wwoods: Koji has the ability to keep a signed header in the database.  I think I can make some code magically appear that deals with copying packages locally, signing them with gpg, and importing the signed header into Koji, potentially writing out the signed package to the file system.<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13wwoods: that code will probably need some tuning though.<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
wwoodsjwb: /usr/share/doc/koji-1.1/docs/HOWTO.html seems pretty dang good so far<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
jwbwwoods, that's not what i mean<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
wwoodsjwb: ah, okay<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
jwbwwoods, i meant "this is wtf you need to do to get your packages into $release"<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13wwoods: I think he's looking for more of the "If you did FOO before the merge, here is how to do FOO now"<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
jwbright, what f13 said<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
wwoodsright right<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
nottingf13: sorry<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
wwoodsyeah, that's important stuff. sadly I know very little about how Extras worked pre-merge.<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
jwbwwoods, people built packages and they were pushed<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
warrenOne big issue that came up is adding of new packages... I was misinformed earlier that auto-populate from owners.list to koji would happen.<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
warrenI need to know exactly howt to add packages to koji.  I might be able to tie it into the CVS adding procedure.<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jwbwwoods, there's lots of stuff now that they have to deal with.  rel-eng requests during freeze, updates stuff, etc<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jwbwarren, f13 sent us an email on that<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
warrenjwb, where?<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
warrenjwb, I've been swamped<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
nottingwarren: we have a script that can auto-add, it's just not on<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
warrennotting, ok, so I need not worry about this?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
warrennotting, you going to summit too?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
warrennotting, possible to turn it on before summit?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwbwarren, to cvsadmin-members<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwbwarren, in short: koji add-pkg --owner <FAS user id> dist-fc7 <package><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
warrenjwb, although with notting's mention of auto-add, do we need to do this or not?<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
nottingwarren: well, it will still be a delay for whatever to run out of cron<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
warrennotting, how often?  can it run as often as the acl script?<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
warrenthat would be VERY logical<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwbor be part of the acl script?<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13I just realized though<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13adding the package to dist-fc7 isn't enough, it has to be added to f7-final too<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
warrenf13, we can adjust the script as needed<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13f7-final doesn't inherit from dist-fc7 (as then builds would be overridden)<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13warren: nod, it just has to be added twice<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13although.<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jwbf13, what?<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
warrennotting, how often can we run auto-add?  why not do it as part of the 30 minute acl gen.<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13I suppose we could make inheritance work.  hrm.<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jwbf13, why are we adding new packages to f7-final?<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
* jwb is slightly confused<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13I am too.<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13I don't remember what we decided about new packages being added to hte collection during this time<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
warrenjwb, people continue to add things to Extras now.  We want packages in FE6 to be newer than F7?<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13whether they'd land in rawhide or be in the Everything tree<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
warrenoh!<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
warrenHow about this:<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
nottingwarren: well, it would require me putting my koji certs somewhere i may not want to. aside from that...<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
warrenauto-add to dist-fc7, allow builds there.<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
warrenbut only allow in f7-final if requested and approved by rel-eng.<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
warrenwhich might be rare<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
nottingf13: so we have policy that there will be stuff in the buildroot we won't ship?<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwbthat's what i've been doing<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
* notting is confused<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
warrennotting, where is acl gen currently running?<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
nottingcvs<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
f13notting: unfortunately not.  This is the really sucky sucky part of releasing a distro<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
warrennotting, generate a non-notting user with the koji perm?<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
f13we basically have two options.<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13option A) no builds get into build roots without rel-eng interaction.<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
nottingwarren: don't think a non-person admin koji user is *better*<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13keeps buildroots sane.  Adds a _ton_ of lag gime when somebody needs to build an interdependent stack of packages.<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
warrennotting, in the long-term what option do we have?  If we cannot trust cvs-int, aren't we screwed?<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
warrennotting, we have to automate this *somehow* or we lose.<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13option B) buildroots continue to self populate, need rel-eng to interact to get your stack into rawhide/final.<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
nottingwarren: why should koji necessarily trust it over other machines?<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
warrenOption B is OK if we have nagmail and pull in packages that were part of the buildroot when we tag a f7-final package.<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
nottingwarren: i'm not saying i can't put the perms there<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13with option B it is far easier to prepare a stack of packages for release, but then you have buildroots with stuff that isn't necessarily shipped.<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
warrennotting, 1) We need automation or we lose.  2) cvs is supposed to be one of our most secure boxes, we're screwed if it isn't.  3) why not just do it?<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
nottingwarren: *shrug* i'm not going to say we 'lose' if we have to run one simple command-line program, but, eh, whatever<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
nottingwarren: more relevant: cvs runs rhel4. koji?<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
warrennotting, what other option we have?  we really can't handle adding of new packages manually.<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
nottingwarren: a) we do now b) offtopic?<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
warrennotting, I mean, we already do it manually for cvs, it only makes sense that the fruit of that effort go into koji, it is the same problem.<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13notting: koji client works on RHEL4<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
warrennotting, *I* am being blamed for packages not being buildable in koji.  This should be automated especially if we have a script to do so.<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
* f13 wonders if we can get back on topic a bit.<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
warrenThis is totally on topic.<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
warrenWe're stuck on this.<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
warrenWe need this to keep the contributors happy.<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13warren: basically the response I have right now is "tough".  Things are going to be rough.  We may have to do many things by hand right now, deal.<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
warrennotting, where is the auto-add script?  I'll use it myself for now.<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
nottingwarren: in the same place as everything else<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
nottingand, no offense, but mail was sent as to how to add packages by hand - if you're adding packages, you need to read that<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
warrenI misunderstood that it was happening automatically<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
warrenI'll deal with it manually for now.<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
warrenok, move on.<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
nottingwarren: i'll get it set up automatically when i can. might not be for a day or three<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
warrennotting, cool, thanks<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13notting: how far along are we in the ppc64 stuff?<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
nottingf13: fairly far build-wise. dunno about import<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
* notting argues with koji urls<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
nottingf13: figure out what was up with docbook2X?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13notting: I sent mail to you.<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
nottingok<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13notting: if you don't have your certs and koji config in place, querying for stuff won't work too well.<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
nottingf13: yeah, but afaik they were. oh well, it's there now<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
nottingas for ppc64<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13things are still uploading/importing<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
warrennotting, is the acl gen script still running every 30 minutes?  (just not bugzilla sync?)<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
nottingwarren: yep<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13I started the script over again looking at /local/<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
warrenis bugzilla sync coming back?<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
nottingf13: there's another directory, i'll start it over that later. but that extra stuff is stuff that shouldn't be build-reqs<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingonce everything that's built now is imported, we should be *reasonably* good to go for ppc64<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13notting: ok.  I found a few things that didn't have matching NVRs<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingthere's some stuff that won't build due to various errors - i've filed some bugs<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingocaml is being worked on<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13libupnp-1.4.3-1.fc7 for example<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingthings that BR mono will need ifarched<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingand i'll try and attack maven again later *ugh*<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13looks like libupnp was rebuilt later IN koji and successfully pooped out a ppc64 package<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
nottingf13: good.<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
nottingeverything on the missing dep tracker should be OK now<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13ok.<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13notting: so then it's just maven, ocaml, and the things you've filed bugs on?<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13(left to build)<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
nottingf13: more than that, as i haven't filed bugs on everything<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13ok.<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
* notting idly wonders how many of the build failures are things that don't build on any arch ATM :)<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
nottingf13: 1224 SRPMS built, give or take a few<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
f13that's not a small number.<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13so the next thing to talk about.<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13mirror layout and getting bits to said mirror.<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
mmcgrathf13: can we start using ibiblio soon?<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13Since we're still doing Extras for 6/5, perhaps we just tie into that rsync process to get development synced as well?  Compse rawhide to the place that is servied by buildsys: rsync?<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13mmcgrath: you'll be at summit right?  Can we talk there about it ?  I just can't handle more changes.<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
mmcgrathf13: this shouldn't involve any changes on your side if things.  Lets talk at the summit.<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
* nirik wonders if it's possible to hardlink so mirrors don't get piles of bits all at once, and then remove the old dirs later?<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
mmcgraths/if/of/<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13nirik: I do believe symlinks or hardlinks are the plan.<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13nirik: have you seen the proposed mirror layout changes?<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
nirikcool. Re-syncing all of devel core/extras would be anoying.<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
nirikyeap. Looks sane to me.<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
nottingexcept, with content of /extras moving to a different toplevel, hardlinks may not help depending on how you have your sync set up. but, *shrug*<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13yeah, this isn't going to be fun.<a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a>
nottingoof<a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a>
nottingwell, getting bits out:<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
notting- updates and releases are still on-demand, right?<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
nottingso, the question is, do we make rawhide automated or not<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
f13notting: I don't think I can make rawhide automated today<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
f13eventually, yes I"d like it to be automated.<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
nottingf13: step 1. get trees. then worry about push :)_<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
f13heh<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
f13notting: re the ppc64 stuff, /local/ is static now?  No more builds landing there?<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
f13when was the last build that landed there?<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
nottingf13: more stuff landing there shortly<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
nottingthat's the 'needs to be available for building against' destination<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
nirikperhaps we could even revisit signing rawhide? :) (would possibly make it so yum could detect what repo a package was from and help with all the repotag nightmares)<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
nottingand since matthias just built something in the build chain, i can build a few more things now<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
f13notting: argle.  Ok.<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
f13nirik: yes, eventually I'd like rawhide to be signed, with the buildsystem throwaway key<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
f13nirik: but that'll involve an automated signing system.<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
f13and we don't even have a signing system.<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
f13manual or automated.<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
nirikyep. Not something to worry about now, just somethign to keep in mind for down the road.<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
mmcgrathdoes the pkgdb have anything like that built into it?<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
wwoodsI'd really like it if rawhide packages were being signed by the time F8 gets close<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
* notting points wwoods at the pony<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
wwoodsyes, that too! also a flamethrower.<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
nirikis the devel branching in cvs still planned for thursday? or is everyone going to be summiting?<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
f13not everybody<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
f13nirik: I'm not entirely convinced we'll be ready for deep freeze by Thursday<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
f13wwoods has been grumbling about the blocker list<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
nottingf13: 'frozen enough to branch cvs'<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
f13well yeah, I suppose.<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
warrenwwoods, +1, although we really don't need to worry about that for now.<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
nirikperhaps a plea to fedora-devel/maintainers/qa to have people poke at blocker bugs might be worth while?<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mmcgrathFYI guys, there's going to be a build system outage on Wed for about an hour and a half.  (They're installing some new filers for us)<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mmcgrathI'll send a note to the list when I get more details about the exact time.<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
warrenA plea to developers about the blocker list will do us little good if we don't have rawhide trees for them to test.<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
wwoodsYeah the blocker list has 104 open bugs on it<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
wwoodsand we have.. 17 days until release?<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
* warren is upset at a core developer who refuses to fix a blocker because "rawhide isn't even pushing, I'll fix it later."<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
f13mmcgrath: oh thank mother of heaven.<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
wwoodswarren: who the hell said that? half the beauty of koji is that people can pull packages straight from the buildsystem now<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
warrenwwoods, caillon<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
mmcgrathf13: I'll believe it when I mount it :)<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
wwoodsrawhide is far less essential now than it was<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
warrenwwoods, it was just an excuse.<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
f13mmcgrath: dirty<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
warrenwwoods, it is a valid argument that you can't upgrade to hte latest packages easily.  his argument is that people wont even see his changes.<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
f13Ok, anything hot on anybody's mind yet, or can I go back to trying to mash things together?<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
wwoodsyeah I don't wanna be all chicken little here but seriously, 3 weeks! 104 bugs!<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
warren+1 to mash!<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
nottingwwoods: wheee<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
f13wwoods: nod.  I'm OK with more slipping.  What we just did was _huge_ and we're not coming back online as fast as I hoped we would.<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
warrenwwoods, go ahead and announce loudly the blocker list, but I think rawhide pushing is going to be very important for the blocker list to be tackled.<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
wwoodswarren: agreed<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jwbwwoods, koji rocks but it is not a replacement for a repo yum can pull from<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
wwoodsyeah probably I should do some blocker triage<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
nirikalso rawhide push will be good for checking EVR and broken deps issues.<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
f13jwb: I think I can get a repo to pull from very quickly<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jwbf13, would be awesome<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
wwoodsjwb: yeah, but the absence of rawhide is no longer a blocker to getting packages in people's hands to test fixes<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
f13it'll just be non-multilib and not mirrored.<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
* nirik suspects there will be lots of EVR problems. ;( <a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
f13and having tonns of people pull from it is going to not be good for the current filer we're using.<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jwbwwoods, individuals, no.  testers as a collective, yes<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
wwoodsjwb: right<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
f13jwb: so I'd rather wait until we have _real_ filers and maybe some other box that can http serve it instead of the koji server itself.<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
wwoodssince we're talkin' about the blocker list here, I'm thinking about individuals<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
wwoods(i.e. bug reporters)<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
f13absolutely<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
jwbok<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
mclasenwwoods: those 104 bugs on the blocker list are self-nominated blockers though, right ?<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
wwoodsrawhide is obviously hugely important, but it's not The Only Way Anyone Can Test Anything anymore<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
wwoodsmclasen: no, those are put there by, basically, the people in this meeting<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
f13wwoods: oh the hidden blocker?<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoodsalthough people *can* add their own, we generally pull them off if they're silly<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoodsso for the most part the blocker list is for-real<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
mclasenwwoods: well, if the blocker list is secret, how are people supposed to know that the release is blocking on them ?<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoodsit's not secret<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
mclasenwhich blocker bug are we talking about ?<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
f13my misword.<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoodsI think f13 was kidding?<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoodsFC7Blocker<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
wwoods<a href=""></a><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
mclasenok<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
wwoodsto be fair, there's a good 15 bugs that are on the ppc64 blocker<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
wwoodsbut yeah I'll do some triage and make some noise<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
wwoodsand we'll re-evaluate for slip next week<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
f13I was thinking of the Test4 blocker bug that we created but didn't advertise.<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
wwoods(i.e. post-summit)<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
wwoodsf13: ah, that one<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
nottingwwoods: we'll reevaulated for slip after we supposedly freeze?<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
wwoodsIIRC all of those that are still open should be on the FC7Blocker list<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
wwoodsnotting: I thought we weren't freezing yet?<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
jwbwe're slushed<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
nottingis we or ain't we? if we aren't freezing on thursday, we should probably announce it<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>
f13we're slushy now, supposed to freeze on Thursday<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>
f13I can't feel good about deep freezing only a couple days after a merged repo shows up.<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>
wwoodsI'm not too pumped about that either<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
f13and I hate slipping for an undeterminate amount of time.<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
f13My vote.  Yes slip, at least a week.  State that merger took longer/more effort than panned for, need more time for rawhide to settle down a bit and maintianers to get their builds in.<a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a>
jwb+1<a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a>
f13will re-evaluate blocker status next week and decide on further freezes for blocker reasons.<a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a>
jwbat least a week<a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a>
wwoodsYeah I'd really like at least a week after we get the first post-merge rawhide out<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
wwoodswe're still pretty sure that will happen this week?<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
jwband by "rawhide" you mean a real "rawhide" right?<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
f13mumble mumble<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
nottingwwoods: one way or another<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
* jeremy is okay-ish with a slip (well, as okay as can be expected :-)<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
wwoodsmumble, handwave, mumble<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
wwoodsbut yeah, one way or another I would dearly love to have something testable by thursday so we can freeze next thursday (and so we can bang the drums about some blockers)<a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a>
wwoodsso yes, slip a week on the freeze and re-evaluate blockers next week<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
* notting wanders off to go postal<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
f13ok.  We have our normal Monday meeting next week, perhaps we should have a second one on Wed?<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
jwbso we remain in slush?<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
f13jwb: yes.<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
warren+1 slip freeze, too many people gone this week<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
jwbk<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
jwbf13, do you want me to take a crack at the "before->after" doc?<a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a>
f13jwb: sure!<a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a>
f13brb<a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a>
jwbf13, ok i'll try<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
jeremyjwb: would be much appreciated<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
jwbi'll email rel-eng with a link once i have something<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
jeremyand are we going to continue forward with cvs branching on thursday?<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
jwbjeremy, i'd like to get a "real" rawhide working before we branch...<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
jeremyjwb: I'd love to wait until after we have a release to branch... but the overwhelming consensus seems to be that it's causing more problems than it's helping :/<a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a>
wwoodsi get the feeling developers are getting really antsy about the freeze<a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a>
f13yeah, freezes suck<a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a>
jwbjeremy, but if we branch and we don't have the f8 rawhide working people will be more pissed<a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a>
f13getting a release out is _hard_ and somepeople don't like to play along.<a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a>
f13jwb: yeah, we're not going to have a post-fc7 rawhide until fc7 goes gold.<a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a>
nottingso<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
notting1) who wants to go through dist-fc7 but not f7-final stuff and ping people?<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
notting(with buildroots, this is important)<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
notting2) do we want to shunt stuff to not-dist-fc7?<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
jwbf13, so we're not going to open the gates for dist-fc8 until f7 releases?<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
f13should be simple enough to get packages and nvr compare them.<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
f13jwb: goes gold, not necessarily released.<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
jwbok, then why can't we branch at that point?<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
f13there is a lag between gold -> open.<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
f13jwb: some people feel that's _way_ too late.<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
jwbwtf is the difference?<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
f13but then again, these are the same people that don't see the value in rawhide matching what we want to ship during those times too.<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
jwbthere is no rawhide at the moment.  that's my whole point<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
f13jwb: we can branch and allow them to build, and they could get to the "hot" repos, but it wouldn't go out in rawhide.<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
jeremyjwb: people want a place to be able to commit post-f7 things<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
jwbjeremy, hrm...<a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a>
jwbk<a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a>
nirikone issue with the devel freeze is that maintainers of formerly extras packages are pushing fc5/fc6/devel, and so when their devel package isn't in f7, EVR is likely to be broke...<a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a>
f13nirik: yep, something that they have to be aware of<a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a>
f13merging doesn't come for free, there is give/take on both sides of the merge.<a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a>
nirikindeed, but I think there are some already oblivious ones. I guess we can just do the best we can.<a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a>
f13The desire to have more control over the packages that are part of the distribution means that they have to care about the whole distribution.<a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a>
* f13 tries to calm down his crankyness.<a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a>
nirikagreed, but I think some of them just need to be educated about it.<a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a>
f13Ok, we're at over 1.5 hours here, is there anything else that needs to be talked about now?<a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a>
* jwb has to go to a real-life meeting<a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a>
wwoodsI'm good for now. plenty to do for all, I think<a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a>
f13ok, ***** end *****<a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a>

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