ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2008-mar-10

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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-03-10

Beta Release

PreUpgrade

  • rel-eng has agreed to maintain the file and it will be distributed on the mirrors
  • pub/linux/fedora/releases/releases.list

Master Mirror Space

  • after the board's talk with legal, we're clear to remove anything we want from the mirror.
  • https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/421 is the ticket for the disk space
  • Discussion about what releases need to be kept around and which ones can be deleted to free up space
  • Potentially getting up to 2TB of space from HP

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* warren here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* notting is here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13ping: notting warren jwb rdieter jeremy wwoods poelcat spot<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* wwoods here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
rdieterhere<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
jwbhere<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
jwbish<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
* poelcat here<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13I'm trying to chanage the wiki page to list the now adjusted UTC time<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13but I'm getting 500'd<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13ok, well<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Beta Freeze<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
wwoodsso.. rel-eng meeting adjusts for DST (i.e. it's tied to US Eastern time)?<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13Tonight is the beta freeze, for tomorrow's rawhide.<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13wwoods: yeah<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13dist-f9-beta exists, is continually updated with the latest dist-f9 stuff, and I've got signing writing out signed packages right now<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13rawhide tomorrow will likely have a bunch newly signed packages, but likely not all of them<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13I'll update dist-rawhide later tonight<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
warrenabout what time will the cut-off be?<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwbupdate it as in ?<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13dist-rawhide -> dist-f9 right now, tonight it'lls witch to -> dist-f9-beta<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwbyeah, ok<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13dist-rawhide is what feeds rawhide composes.<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwbyep, just making sure i understood<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13warren: 0700 UTC~<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13warren: likely a bit before<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* spot is here<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13so lots and lots of test trees coming<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13RHEL5 selinux is thwarting my attempts at using rhel5 + mock to compose trees, so we might not be able to do them in PHX for beta<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13but I'll be keeping a test location in sync with the trees I compose<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13wwoods: you have us a testing grid right?<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13we should make an announcement regarding it and invite people to use rawhide to test things<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoods<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install</a> is the test plan<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoods<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/TestSummaryTemplate">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/TestSummaryTemplate</a> is the "fill in the boxes" summary of results<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jeremysorry I'm late... free lunch ran long :)<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13mmmmm<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13so....<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
f13life is going to be busy for a bit.  Anything else anybody would like to add?<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13We should keep in pretty constant contact with the state of the beta<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jeremywwoods: any indicator of how we're looking, especially relative to last week?<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jwbppc was mostly happy last friday<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13daily runthroughs of the blocker list, culling the non blockers, etc..<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13jeremy: X is better, still some evdev oddities, but not bad<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13trees are composing pretty regularly<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13including ppc<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13perl landed today<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
jeremyf13: yeah, that's my impression too.  but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
* jeremy saw perl too<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
warrenI would really appreciate if somebody could review my ltsp package, been working constantly for more than 2 weeks getting that ready.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jwbwhat does that have to do with Beta?<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jeremyalso, if we find a place to put it (I'll talk to mmcgrath in a bit), I can put up a live image<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13I think the NetworkManager bits to reliably read system config files landed so we can flip NM on by default<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
warrenjwb, I was told it needs to go in before beta or it doens't go in at all.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jwbwhy is that?<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
warrenfeature freeze?<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13if it's a freature<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jwbit can go in.  it just won't be called a feature<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jeremyf13: we should check with dcbw where that stands (NM)<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoodsjeremy: stage2 stuff is still problematic. haven't tried an iso install today yet<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13jeremy: yeah, I got a text message on Friday/Sat saying that the bits landed upstream and that he was going to do a rawhide build<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13yes, stage2 worries me a lot<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoodsstage2=XXX definitelly doesn't work yet<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jeremywwoods: clumens should be around I think and is your best bet for fixage<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoodshe's in targeted selection training<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jwb?<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jeremywwoods: "stay on target!" :)<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
* nirik wonders if the kvm vmware video finds no modes is known/filed/being looked at? <a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
jeremynirik: it's filed (and affects vmware vmware too afaik)<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
wwoodsgah. the internal mirror disappeared from the mirrorlist for rawhide for some reason<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
nirikok, sounds good. I should see if the 'root can't login on console' thing I just saw is filed too.<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
jwbwelcome to life for the rest of us wwoods<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
f13oh, also<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13syslinux doesn't seem to like recent kvm<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
jeremywwoods: I can try to take a look too if you have concrete reproducers of problems<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsforget that! I don't wanna deal with slow mirrors like you suckas<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsjeremy: sure<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsoh. right-alt is still enter (or space) in anaconda. grumble grumble<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsupgrade traceback... while looking for /etc/rpm/platform<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
wwoodsbluh. I'll take this stuff offline and report bugs and junk<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13ok.<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13we got works ahead of us<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
jeremybut otherwise, would it really be a freeze? :)<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13bad day for selection training.<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsbasically: shit's rough but I'm hopeful<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
* jeremy at least feels like we're freezing on top of something more solid<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
nottingmmm, frozen quicksand<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
jeremyf13: and an entire bad week for me.  woo!<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13nice<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13well, anything else on Beta?<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
nottingjeremy: punting redoing keymaps to match X?<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jeremynotting: yeah, I thought we decided that a few weeks ago<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13alright;<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Floor<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13Given the beta, I'm not focusing on anything else this week.  Is there anything else anybody wants to bring up?<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
* warren falls through the open floor.<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
* f13 watches warren fall through the hole in the roof<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoodsthis might be an infrastructure thing instead, but<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoodsthe preupgrade feature requires a place to put a releases.list file<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoodswhich.. surprise! lists available releases<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
nottinga place... on the mirrors? on the wiki? in space?<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
wwoodsthat's the question, really<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoodsdoes something like that go on the mirrors, or do we just find some random place in the fp.o space to put it<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
wwoodsit's kind of the Official (machine-parseable) List O' Available Releases<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13we probably don't want it to be a SPOF<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoodsand it'll need some (small amount of) rel-eng involvement to flip bits when releases are made public<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13so..<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13pub/linux/fedora/releases/releases.list ?<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoodse.g.: add Fedora 9 when F9 is released<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
wwoods<a href="https://fedorahosted.org/preupgrade/browser/dev/releases.list">https://fedorahosted.org/preupgrade/browser/dev/releases.list</a><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
f13ok<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13so yeah, I think dropping it in pub/fedora/linux/releases/ makes sense<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
wwoodsf13: works for me. but yeah - requires updating when releases are.. released. which is a releng-y task.<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13aight.<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13I have one other peice of business I forgota bout<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Master Mirror Space<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoodsf13: so - can I say that rel-eng has agreed to maintain the file and it'll be distributed on the mirrors? :D<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13wwoods: sure<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoodsrad. thanks.<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13<a href="https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/421">https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/421</a> is the ticket for the disk space<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13after the board's talk with legal, we're clear to remove anything we want from the mirror.<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13Which could be everything up to the Fedora 7 bits<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
nirikBeta is gonna have jigdo bits, correct?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f13I'm still syncing stuff to spinning disks in Bostford but once that's done we can do some rm -rfing<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f13nirik: yes<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
nottingf13: so, fc6 disappears completely? no archive?<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13I'm going to announce likely later this week the pending removal of the bits, temporary for now, ideally put back in archive.fedoraproject.org later with redirects from the old locations<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13notting: we'll want to put the bits back online eventually, we just don't have the resources to do so immediately<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
nottingdo the mirror heads in rdu/tpa have similar space issues?<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13but we have to clear something off to handle 9's release with split media once again, and secondary arch content.<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13notting: I do believe so, they're all supposedly matched sets<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
nottingwell, do we have space for 9 release w/o seconday arches?<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
nottingand is there a concrete plan for the future other than begging?<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
jeremynotting: begging...  with feeling  ?<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
jwbf13, which secondary arch content?<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
f13jwb: ia64 is the immediate need<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
f13they're ready to start having us pick up their rawhide droppings<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwbcool<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwbwasn't aware of that<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwbare they all hooked into koji?<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
dgilmorejwb: partly<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwbexplain?<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
dgilmorejwb: I need to finish making things work<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13notting: Without scrubbing /some/ content we don't have room for 9 at all<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
dgilmorejwb: they are queueing builds  but not trying to reproduce the buildroot<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13notting: my future plan is that we only keep the active or active -1 releases on the netapps, and we archive things to an archive server with less costly space issues<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwbdgilmore, and that's acceptable?<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
nottingf13: sure, but we don't have one of those yet :)<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
dgilmorejwb: for now<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jwbwait, why?<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13notting: correct.  We have some of the stuff for it, but it's being used for backups right now<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13jwb: because it's better than nothing<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
nottingf13: yeah, just hosting non-critical things without a concrete plan for space  acquisition makes me nervous<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13I still think that reproducing the buildroot exactly is impossible<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
jwbi've offered to send hard drives before<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
jwbjeremy says that's pointless<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
f13notting: we have plans, and budgets, but they're in later quarters<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
nottingf13: did we not think we'd run out of space this fast?<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
nottingjwb: drives is sort of misleading. would need drives, and a box, in the colo, and some sort of redundancy...<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
jwbyeah, hence pointless<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13notting: I don't think mmcgrath was aware that we were going to do split media for 9 again, and wasn't expecting to host secondary arches<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
nottingthen... say no?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warrenwe could do split media jigdo only...<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13notting: board already said yes.<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warrenor all media jigdo only...<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
f13warren: I'd rather not<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
nottingf13: then tell the board they have their head up their ass and cough up some hardware<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jwbf13, what the board says and what we can physically accomplish are entirely different things<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13we /can/ accomplish it<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13there is no reason to keep Fedora Core 2 crap on the master mirror share<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13it's just silly<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jwb1-6 can go<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13we can temporarily move it offline until the archives space frees up<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jwbwhy are we hosting it at all anymore again?<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
jwbthe old stuff i mean<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingi'm just not sure i see the point of 'oh, we'll put it somewhere else later'<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13cleaning 1-6 off (basically the core/ directory) gives us ample space.<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingafter all, you're going to blow up their fc6 installs for 6 months anyway<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingwhy would the users then care that you're putting it back<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
warrenblow up?<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
nottingyum doesn't like no baseurls existing<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
f13maybe they'll get the point that their release isn't supported anymore<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
warrendoes removing 1-5 give us enough space?<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
nottingadmittedly, they haven't seen updates for however long, but now they'll get loud errors<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13warren: depends on how fast other arches spin up<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
nottingi just don't like the ridiculous measures to support (IMO) a silly decision<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
warrennotting, +1<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
jwbarent' you on the board?<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
nottingjwb: doesn't mean people listen to me<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13notting: then please go talk to the board and spot, 'cause that's where the pressure is coming from<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
jwbnotting, i'm just wondering if you said the same during the board meeting<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13HP has already sent us a box to hold the bits on disks until we can get archives up and runing.<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
warren<notting> and is there a concrete plan for the future other than begging? <-- This doesn't bode well.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13concrete plans involve budgetary planning, which we're doing.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13although a lot of the problem is finger pointing when it comes to "who is going ot pay for this"<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13notting: but please don't use releng as a method to further disagree with the board.  I don't really like being put in that position.<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
jwbwhy is that?<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
* warren wonders if we should split the ISO and package mirrors into different trees.<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13jwb: we elect a board for a reason, they've made a decision, and we're doing the best we can to accomplish their decision.<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13warren: wtf are you talking about?<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
warrenIt makes less and less sense to have multiple copies of the same thing.<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
nottingf13: it's the responsibility of rel-eng to give feedback to the board if what they ask for is nuts<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13it also makes less and less sense to carry really old content on the expensive master mirror.<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
jwbi think we should ax the older releases regardless of the current discussion<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
jwbat very least 1-4<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13notting: well, I don't necessarily agree that it's nuts.  I think the timing is a little off, but it's nothign we can't deal with.<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13jwb: 1-4 doesn't give us enough space IIRC<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f131-5 gets us closer<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f131-5 + the Fedora 7 Test [1234] may just about cover it<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13we may get away with keeping 6 on the master netapp<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
jwbdoes that include extras 3-5?<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
nottingf13: this deletion is planned for... post-beta?<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13jwb: yes, that includes it.<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
f13notting: planned for as soon as I get the bits mirrored to the HP box in bostford, and send an announcement to the mirrors / users<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
f13could be before beta, but will probably be after.<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
f13notting: but if you can convince the board to choose a different course of action before then...<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
nottingf13: do you or don't you want to be cc'd?<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13as it stands, getting new mirrors bootstrapped is pretty tough given how much old content there is.<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jwbnotting, please cc rel-eng<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13notting: sure, keep me cc'd, I'd like to be informed.<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13jwb: ++<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
nottingi'd just feel *much* better if archives was actually live now.<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
nottingwas there something that prevented the HP donation going somewhere it could be used in a public manner?<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13notting: rack space in PHX<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13== 0<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
nottingand we can't send it to serverbeach?<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13no ability to put things outside the firewall in Bostford<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
f13serverbeach provides us machines, not the other way around<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
warrennotting, serverbeach does only dedicated, not colo.<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13we'd have to buy another machien from them, or more storage<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
nottingso, barring adding a cname for archives.redhat.com to elvis.redhat.com...<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13and getting IS to agree to putting another box in the colo<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
warrenhow much space does elvis have?<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
nottingabout 22G ;)<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13does elvis have the 400~ gigs we need?<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13s/colo/dmz/<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
warrennotting, where is elvis anyway?<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
nottingsomewhere in the rdu 4th floor lab, iirc<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
warrenf13, what do you mean by redirect?  http redirect?<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13warren: yes<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13warren: if we can.<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
warrenf13, and do we allow rsync access to archive.fp for people who want to mirror it for no good reason?<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13warren: saves us from re-filing export approval for all the old releases.<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
nottingwell, actually elvis is a nursing home in texas with jfk battling mummies. but that's besides the point<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13warren: it should.<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13well, nothing will be deleted before our next meeting<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
nottingf13: how much space will the in-6-months archives.fp.o be?<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
f13notting: that's a mmcgrath question<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
nottingand i suppose there's not really space on spins either<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
spotnotting: HP is working on donating much more storage to us<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
f13probably not that much space, but again, that's a mmcgrath question.<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
spoti'm working with mmcgrath to find a home for it.<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
jwbspins has about 84gig free<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
spotabout 2 TB<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
jwbthough i think mmcgrath recently had an upgrade for spins somewhere<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
nottingf13: dumb question - we want to have a written offer of some sort for F9 to handle some of these GPL issues. is there a way to beta test that without tying us into keeping the beta for however many years?<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
f13... beta test a written offer?<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
jwbthat seems... bad.  and also a question for fedora-legal<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
f13what do you want to test?<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
nottingf13: i.e., does including the first wording of this offer in the beta tie us to keeping the beta online for 3 years<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
* jwb <- not lawyer<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
f13notting: word it in such a way that it doesn't.<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
nottingheh<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
f13I don't think you can just put "NOT!" at the bottom.<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
nottingmdomsch: are you in charge of that?<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
f13you can put a chucnk of text saying "This is where the written offer will be"<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
f13but I'm curious what you're trying to ... test<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
nottingthe last i heard is that there was going to be something in the toplevel readme about the source offer<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
nottingand i don't want it to cause problems later<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
f13yeah, I'm not capable of answering that<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
mdomschI'm still working on it..<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
mdomschwon't be ready this week though<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
nottingf13: but whatever we do, you *do* want to make sure it doesn't apply to betas?<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
mdomschI need to get FSF legal (brett smith?) to ack that for GPLv2 we don't _have_ to provide physical media with source, if it's online<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
jwband alphas and rcs<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
mdomschGPLv3 fixed that particular madness<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
mdomschnotting, right - we really only want that to apply to releases<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomschwhere we can expect to press media<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomschat least for now<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
jwbmdomsch, why the v2/v3 distinction?<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
nottingmdomsch: and is this using gpl as the original source license, or gpl as the collective license.<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomschthere's a desire to allow GPLv2 3b) for everything - but we're far from there yet<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomschnotting, both...<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
mdomschjwb, v2 (in the FSF's opinion of the past) meant we had to put source on physical media for people if they wanted it, because we put the binaries on physical media<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
f13notting: that is correct.  Making pre-releases stick around for 3 years will very very very quickly run us out of disk space<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
mdomschv3 says basically "putting them online is sufficient"<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jwbis there something preventing us from using gplv3 which has this issue fixed ?<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
mdomschjwb, all the v2-licensed code in the distro? :-)<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jwboh, yes<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
nottingf13: sorry to drag things off-topic. anything else?<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
f13I got nothing, but a hungry belly<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
f13anybody else?<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jwblet's talk about spins<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jwbjust kidding :)<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
f13thanks all<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>

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