From Fedora Project Wiki

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-09-15

F10 Beta

  • froze on Thursday
  • have had a few recent days of installable rawhide
  • review of development progress and stability in different areas

IRC Transcript

f13 ping: notting jeremy spot lmacken wwoods warren rdieter_afk poelcat 10:00
* notting is here 10:00
* spot is here 10:01
jeremy hi 10:01
* poelcat here 10:01
* wwoods 10:02
f13 probably enough to get started 10:02
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - BETA!!! 10:02
f13 We froze on Thursday night, and I started the signing process then 10:03
wwoods woo, etc 10:03
f13 quite a lot of packages got signed and written, but not everything. I'm trying to find teh problem ones and fix those up 10:03
f13 rawhide itself has composed OK the past couple days, and anaconda is usable at least in how I've tried it 10:04
f13 but I suspect things are still a bit... rough there. 10:04
f13 I invited a few folks to give us status on their areas, mclasen: desktop, ajax: X, kylem,j-rod: kernel 10:04
f13 and clumens: anaconda 10:04
f13 in the interest of letting these folks get back to work... 10:05
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Beta - Desktop 10:05
f13 mclasen: can you start us out? 10:05
mclasen sure 10:05
mclasen I don't think there's anything blocking the beta, as far as desktop is concerned 10:05
mclasen after the gdm messup last thursday got straightened out 10:05
f13 mclasen: is there still an issue with doing shutdowns and such? 10:06
f13 or is that in the gdm fix? 10:06
mclasen problem areas that need attention after the beta are smb support 10:06
clumens THUD 10:06
mclasen f13: thats all the one-line gdm typo of last thursday 10:06
wwoods bluez will probably need some poking, since it's all-new 10:06
wwoods and requires special hardware to test 10:06
f13 mclasen: interesting. I thought I was still seeing it. 10:07
mclasen bluez, yeah, I don't know why that was pushed in on freeze day ... 10:07
f13 ah, I have the wrong gdm. ok. 10:07
f13 mclasen: bluez was non-functional before beta as it was 10:07
f13 mclasen: I talked with david woodhouse a bit and we wanted to get something in that was usable for beta. 10:07
mclasen sure 10:07
jeremy mclasen: with the live image I built this morning, I'm seeing hangs on login. killing pulseaudio a few times eventually gets me logged in 10:08
wwoods jeremy: you sure it's killing pulse and not just the keyboard/mouse making the system unhang? 10:08
mclasen there's been a bunch of PA bugs filed this weekend 10:08
jeremy wwoods: not necessarily 10:09
* jeremy just saw this before lunch 10:09
notting mclasen: well, part of the gdm/CK issue is that it broke PA too 10:09
wwoods is the GDM/CK thing also the cause of the PK failure-to-authenticate junk? 10:09
mclasen I guess we need to wait till lennart arrives in Portland and figures out hotel wifi... 10:09
* lmacken arrives a bit late 10:09
notting wwoods: yes. 10:09
wwoods figured as much. 10:09
mclasen anyway, thats all the status I have 10:09
f13 ok, thanks. 10:10
f13 mclasen: so as far as you know, we're not really waiting on anything desktop related for the beta? 10:10
mclasen yeah 10:10
f13 thanks. 10:10
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - kernel 10:10
f13 kylem: j-rod: take it away 10:10
kylem Everything seems like it's chugging along to ship with .27 in F10. 10:11
kylem we're at -rc6, things have calmed down a lot, and weren't it for KS this week (though, maybe because Linus is at home in Portland for it) we'll have -rc7 this week. 10:11
j-rod ya, things are generally happy, I have four or five machines all rolling along just fine on current kernels 10:11
kylem rawhide seems fine on my machines, there's a few bug reports about non-booting machines, but they generally seem to be the usual ones that gets fixed when -debug gets switched over. 10:12
j-rod just some quirkiness w/graphics on one box, though I'm not the only one seeing it 10:12
j-rod (bug 462098) 10:12
buggbot Bug medium, medium, ---,, NEW, Intel display hangs unless the system gets mouse/keyboard input 10:12
kylem that's an interrupt bug, keithp fixed that upstream this weekend. 10:13
kylem (iirc) 10:13
wwoods ah yes - if someone could attach xorg.conf / log info to that bug, I'd appreciate it (my affected machine is at home) 10:13
j-rod kylem: oh really?... 10:13
j-rod wwoods: I just did 10:13
wwoods or a comment indicating "yes, we know what's causing this, hang on for a fix" 10:13
wwoods j-rod: my hero! thanks. 10:13
f13 airlied was just building a kernel and davej has one kernel build thats newer than what is currently tagged for beta, I'd like to know if and what we should be pulling in. 10:13
j-rod well, no xorg.conf, since there wasn't one 10:13
j-rod airlied's kernel didn't help my situation... curious if that patch is the same one kylem is talking about... 10:14
kylem my home dsl is completely hosed, so i can't get at my email, so i can't let you know, i'm afraid. :( 10:15
f13 suck 10:16
f13 ok, so there are potentially newer kernels we'll need, we'll have to keep an eye on that. 10:16
f13 anything else on kernel? 10:16
kylem f13, i'd say going with the latest and greatest is probably the best idea. 10:16
kylem f13, nope. 10:16
kylem oh, i spent a portion of the weekend chugging through rawhide wireless bug reports, going to attack those this week. 10:17
kylem but that's post-beta, i'm afraid :\ 10:17
f13 k 10:17
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - anaconda 10:17
f13 clumens: you have the floor 10:17
clumens gentlemen, i'd like to discuss the topic of soup. 10:18
clumens no seriously, things are looking up from last week this time. static networking is probably busted, but preupgrade works and livecds work last time jeremy tested them, and all the install methods do something. 10:19
clumens what are the main concerns. 10:19
clumens question mark 10:19
notting clumens: networking is better than friday? will poke. 10:20
clumens notting: it's certainly better than thursday 10:20
wwoods bug 461493 is annoying but easily worked around 10:21
buggbot Bug medium, medium, ---,, NEW, 'ksdevice=link' causes traceback 10:21
f13 clumens: I'm mostly curious what we plan to target over the next day or so, given that we have to be ready to compose by Thursday in order to ship on time 10:21
clumens i don't plan on doing anything except bugs 10:21
clumens hans committed some iscsi stuff that'd get picked up if we rebuilt, and dlehman wants to get in a patch that redoes the encrypted passphrase UI 10:22
clumens gets rid of the many passphrases, replaces it with a global one 10:22
f13 ok, that's something I'd like to see built today if it's going to happen 10:22
clumens the passphrase stuff? 10:23
f13 clumens: yeah 10:23
wwoods yeah, agreed 10:23
clumens i'll say he's go for committing, as long as he promises he's not leaving town this week. 10:24
wwoods dlehman and I talked about that earlier - reducing overall complexity is good. If it's going in, I'd like to see it built ASAP so we can get wider testing. 10:24
clumens it's mostly minus signs 10:24
wwoods sweet, sweet minus signs 10:24
clumens i guess the major question mark is still networking. everything else seems reasonably solid, weirdo corner cases excepted. 10:25
f13 clumens: can your team whip up a good set of release notes for beta concerning networking in anaconda? That's a fairly visible change don't wnat people to be filing bugs about missing config screens 10:25
clumens yeah i'll ask david to write something up about it 10:25
clumens where should they be posted? 10:26
f13 that's a good question 10:26
wwoods if there's a NM-in-anaconda feature page, that'd be ideal 10:26
f13 yeah, that'd be a good start. 10:26
wwoods otherwise, um 10:26
f13 I think any release wiki page for beta would pull data from the feature pages 10:26
clumens additionally does there need to be a release note talking about how you won't typically be prompted for installation source? 10:26
wwoods f13: it will 10:26
f13 clumens: that would be a good note too 10:27
wwoods oh, I guess we could throw it on the (to-be-created) f10b installer test matrix page? 10:27
clumens there's no feature page 10:27
clumens for either 10:27
wwoods jlaska: ping - do you have an empty template for somehere? 10:28
f13 clumens: wow, that seems quite featurey to not have a page :/ 10:28
f13 clumens: 10:29
wwoods oh nice 10:30
clumens f13: it's been a feature forever, so that probably just slipped through the cracks 10:30
clumens yeah we can add something there 10:30
f13 ok, anything else regarding installer? 10:32
f13 doesn't sound like it. 10:32
clumens i don't have anything 10:32
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - X 10:32
f13 ajax: please take the floor 10:32
ajax OH NOES 10:32
ajax so uh. intel has some weird thing where refresh rate drops through the floor, and we're not really sure why 10:33
ajax airlied's been looking at it. i'm not sure how close he is to a solution. i'm tempted to back out the entirety of the intel drm patches, but i'm not even sure that'd be a fix. 10:34
f13 this makes life pretty... interesting for people on intel kits 10:34
ajax radeon+kms is still a little touchy on some hardware, but at least stabilizes itself if you say nomodeset on kcmdline, so, not as worried about that 10:34
f13 it manifests itself in weird ways depending on teh app and could lead to a lot of misfiled bugs 10:34
ajax everything else X-wise is in pretty good shape, afaict 10:34
ajax but yeah, the intel thing. 10:35
f13 ajax: how good do you feel about evdev (try 2)? 10:35
wwoods is there a releasenote about, like, what hardware kms is currently enabled on (and how to disable/enable it) 10:35
f13 are the things that caused us to rip it out last release mostly resolved? IE the bizarre keymappings 10:35
ajax wwoods: should be. probably isn't. i can write one though, if we want one for the beta 10:36
ajax f13: keymap stuff should be practically perfect in every way. i haven 10:36
ajax 't seen any problems with it in ages. 10:36
f13 where "ages" == a couple weeks (: 10:36
f13 a few weeks back there was a rash of arrow keys doing wrong things people were reporting 10:36
f13 like screenshot and such 10:37
jeremy whot fixed up the few screwy things I was seeing there 10:37
f13 ajax: I think notes for the beta should focus on what we want people to test in the beta 10:37
ajax well there's an easy way to guarantee that won't happen, which is to hack the server to refuse to load kbd 10:37
wwoods which definitely means: how do I know if modesetting is on? how can I turn it on if it's not? how do I turn it off if it misbehaves? 10:38
ajax but i'd rather not do that; if there's still any keymap bugs, i want to know. i'm pretty confident they're hammered out now. 10:38
f13 ajax: nod, that's great news 10:38
ajax also it no longer crashes if you look at it funny, so, there's that. 10:38
f13 ajax: so should we be looking for you or airlied or both to track the intel issue? 10:39
ajax at this point i think it's both. airlied knows more about it but he's also at plumbers, so he's not exactly free. 10:40
ajax you'd think he could hit an intelian over the head with a laptop until it worked... 10:40
f13 he'd be close enough 10:41
f13 if need be, I'll drive down there and bring a bat too 10:41
jeremy you'd think he couldn't walk 3 feet without tripping over an intelian 10:41
ajax yay attitude of violence 10:42
f13 ok, so we'll track this issue to, as far as beta is concerned. 10:42
f13 anything else on X? 10:42
ajax think that's it 10:43
f13 ok, next... 10:45
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - Plymouth 10:45
halfline uh oh 10:45
f13 halfline: can you give us a rundown on plymouth, as it relates to Beta? 10:45
halfline yea sure 10:45
halfline it has some issues with serial consoles right now 10:45
halfline so if you do console=ttyS0 console=tty0 things don't behave right 10:46
halfline there's about to be a bug filed about a superfluous password prompt popping up 10:46
halfline in some cases when people have encrypted disks 10:46
halfline not sure what that's about yet, since I just found out about it 10:47
halfline it's also missing some finishing touches that will probably land after beta 10:47
halfline just some bits to make the transition between plymouth and gdm really smooth 10:47
f13 k 10:47
f13 so barring any further bugs, we'd at most be looking for a fix for the superfluous prompting? 10:48
halfline right, if i figure out what's going on with the superfluous prompting before beta goes out we could potnetially sneak it in. not a beta blocker by any means though 10:48
f13 it'll just cause a high number of bugs filed, for values of "high" where encryption is involved. 10:49
halfline well hard to say 10:49
halfline since i don't even know the scope of teh problem yet 10:50
f13 true 10:50
halfline it's certainly not everyone seeing it 10:50
f13 ok, anything else on plymouth? 10:51
halfline not off the top of my head 10:52
halfline we should 10:52
halfline make sure we get the release notes updated to reflect the current state of things 10:53
halfline for instance that "nomodeset" will disable modesetting 10:53
f13 yeah, updating the release notes would be appreciated 10:53
f13 ok 10:53
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - Beta composes 10:53
f13 An updated pungi got tagged this morning, which should be "good" for making Beta 10:54
f13 only minor changes, mostly API stuff 10:54
f13 jeremy: is livecd-creator in a good state? 10:54
jeremy f13: nothing broken afaik. I've been building a few random images, but no so much related to the beta specifically 10:55
f13 k 10:55
f13 We have a fuckload of "approved" spins this time around, so that'll be interesting. 10:55
f13 including one that uses a tool we've never used before. 10:55
f13 so I'm going to be running those through their paces over the next day or three 10:57
f13 and doing test composes of content 10:57
f13 I probably won't be able to do a whole lot of testing on my own, so I'm really looking to wwoods and co to nail that wiki grid down 10:58
f13 speaking of... 10:58
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - QA 10:58
f13 wwoods: can you take the floor for a few minutes? 10:58
* f13 taps on wwoods' mic 11:00
wwoods err uh 11:01
* wwoods cough 11:01
wwoods I'll talk to jlaska, we'll have a matrix up by the end of the day for coordinating beta testing 11:01
f13 and some call to arms for testing? 11:02
wwoods unless I'm really confused, Beta is a blocking freeze, so we can turn to the community to test against current Rawhide and consider that equivalent to Beta 11:02
f13 yes, that is correct 11:02
wwoods stuff that's media-specific will require either a) you-put-it-together pungi action or b) patience 11:02
poelcat f13: any chance of putting out early torrent version for community testing? 11:03
wwoods IIRC we've got an internal spin of the initial bits so probably I'll focus on getting RH internal people working on the media-specific stuff 11:03
f13 poelcat: maybe? 11:05
wwoods pre-beta torrents would be nice to have. at the very least, boilerplate instructions for building images 11:05
wwoods or maybe jigdo stuff against alpha? 11:05
f13 that won't help, resigned packages. 11:07
wwoods anyway, prior to release we're mostly concerned with installer testing. functional testing is on the radar, of course, but it's much easier to get community participation on that 11:07
wwoods f13: oh right. 11:07
* poelcat afk for a bit 11:07
wwoods anyway. F10Beta tracker: 11:08
wwoods needs a good triaging 11:08
f13 k 11:08
* mdomsch has been trying to close nastier FTBFS bugs on there 11:09
wwoods if you have updates for any of those, feel free to provide them; if there are major issues with F10Beta, please feel free to add those bugs 11:09
* f13 suddenly has an OHSHIT moment 11:09
f13 oh man. 11:09
notting bear in the kitchen? 11:10
f13 I think I just signed all the beta content with the F8 and 9 test key 11:10
f13 not the f10 test key 11:10
wwoods that's unfortunate! but not catastrophic.. right? 11:11
f13 not catastrophic 11:11
jwb that would be more of an "awww... crap." moment 11:11
f13 although the mirrors might castrate me 11:11
jwb they hate you for .newkey already 11:11
jwb this is minor 11:11
f13 jwb: this is actually more content than .newkey 11:11
f13 a lot more 11:11
jwb when you consider F8 and F9 combined? 11:12
notting f13: oh phooey. i suppose the stock mash configs need updated 11:12
f13 it's only f8/9 /updates/ thus far 11:12
jwb f13, oh 11:12
f13 vs all of dist-f10 11:12
wwoods speaking of configs - the kickstarts for creating Beta are the ones in fedora-release, right? 11:13
mdomsch f13, you haven't pushed 10-Beta to the mirrors yet 11:13
mdomsch you _could_ resign if you wanted to 11:13
* mdomsch ducks 11:14
f13 mdomsch: 10-beta == rawhide 11:14
f13 mdomsch: and much of it /did/ get pushed to mirrors 11:14
mdomsch ugg 11:14
f13 yeah 11:14
f13 this was... not the smartest thing I"ve ever done 11:14
f13 wwoods: yes 11:14
f13 er 11:14
f13 wwoods: I'll have to verify that they match pungi and livecd stuff 11:15
f13 wwoods: we need an updated fedora-release anyway for version number and keys 11:15
* f13 ponders restoring from a backup 11:15
f13 since it doesn't seem rsync is done yet to many places. 11:16
wwoods f13: right. I'll assume that those kickstarts are close enough for now. 11:16
wwoods so, yeah. test matrix will be at RSN 11:16
wwoods bug blocker list at 11:17
f13 k 11:17
wwoods we can discuss making torrents of test images public.. once we have some test images 11:17
f13 anything else on QA? 11:17
wwoods focus pre-release is installer / yum+PK - everything else (features/functional stuff) can be tested post-release 11:18
notting f13: are you using stock mash configs or your own for rawhide 11:19
wwoods #fedora-qa is always open for any further discussion of bug filing / testing stuff. And that's it. 11:19
f13 notting: I haven't touched anything, so I'd assume stock. 11:19
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - open floor 11:20
notting f13: or, it's in the script 11:20
f13 notting: I don't recall futzing with mash configs in teh buildrawhide script, I think it comes from the rpm 11:20
f13 anywho, we're 20 minutes over, any open discussion on beta? 11:20
notting f13: you want rawhide to trust new 8&9 key by default? 11:23
f13 yeah, 8&9, and the 10 keys 11:24
f13 ok, looks like no open issues. 11:27

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