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* ricky has changed the topic to: Fedora Websites Meeting - Who's Here?
* mchua is here!
* ricky  :-)
* hiemanshu is here!
* mchua volunteers to post logs after meeting.
* hiemanshu 's work got stolen by mchua
mchua hiemanshu: if you want to do it, be my guest  :)
hiemanshu Sure
ricky nb|away: ping
mchua w00t!
ricky mizmo doesn't seem to about around either :-/
ricky s/about/be/
hiemanshu ricky, she is at FUDcon
ricky And markg85 couldn't make it today
hiemanshu Berlin
ricky Oh yeah, she mentioned that last time
* nb|away is a bit here, but has to leave in about 30 mins
hiemanshu great nb|away
ricky Hopefully she has access to some people to test with there  :-)
* Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving")
* ricky has changed the topic to: Fedora Websites Meeting - Task List
hiemanshu I think 1)blogs.fp.o
ricky mchua: is the
most recent URL, right?
mchua ricky: right.
mchua ricky: though I'd suggest zooming through that very, very
quickly and using as a
better agenda list instead
ricky Ah, cool
ricky For the CMS item, docs has been packaging like crazy  :-)
hiemanshu yeah i heard that yesterday as well
mchua my tasks are marked as "got hosed this week," but i'll do
join.fp.o stuff for an hour or so after this meeting
ricky They're working closely with upstream to get all the licensing
issues worked out - there may also be a test instance, although I
have'nt seen the URL yet
ricky Fedora Community can probably be taken off - that has been
deployed for a while now  :-)
* mchua updates list
ricky ianweller has written and packaged an extension for the
mediawiki 302 redirects
hiemanshu mchua, blogs.fp.o we are working on that as well
ricky He might be at lunch now though
ricky I've been putting some thought into the decision making process stuff
mchua ricky: is that going to hit the list soon?
ricky Nothing totally solid yet, but I'd like to try out working
with sending patches to the mailing list and getting comments on them
before committig
ricky **committing
ricky Sure
mchua sweet
ricky That way it's easy for even new peple to keep track of what
changes are going on
hiemanshu ricky, but as onekopaka said, its a little too messy
ricky You all saw that with hiemanshu's get-fedora-all patch earlier
today - please make comments, even if it's just a "this is fine and
ready to push"
mchua another thing I've seen come in over the lists are messages to
webmaster@, which ricky seems to mostly be answering... is there
anything we can do to help with that queue?
ricky hiemanshu: It gets better once the process is worked out.
Like how you had trouble with sending the patch the first few times
ricky Documentation for sending patches will be a first step
hiemanshu ricky, cant we have a Trac install like infra does?
mchua +1 for a patch-sending howto!
mchua hiemanshu: can we use bz? it's already up, docs is (sorta)
using it for a todo list.
mchua or they tried a bit, anyway, I haven't checked lately on how
that experiment went.
ricky We can have a trac, but it's much easier for contributors to
comment publicly and get their name out to us on the mailing list.
ricky It's also nice to have one place to go to find out what's
going on in websites.
hiemanshu mchua, ricky, this would be better to talk when he have
more people around
* mchua agrees
ricky Sure, and I'll bring it up on list as well.
ricky Anyway, next thing
ricky I think our priorities kind of got skewed - most people spent
the week working on blogs.fp.o instead of the other stuff we agreed on
* mchua will tinker with bz for a few minutes for fun, but doesn't
expect anything to come of it - just wanting to see what a websites
task list in bz would look like.
ricky But some work is better than nothing, definitely  :-)
mchua hey, blogs.fp.o is important.
mchua should we go through projects and see what the status of each
is, see where we are right now?
ricky Sure, but for pretty much everything other than blogs.fp.o,
it'll be "same as last week"
hiemanshu mizmo and markg85 are not here
mchua well, blogs.fp.o isn't even on
Websites#Projects, so that should at
least go up
ricky I was hoping that mizmo would be around to clarify what she
meant user gallery
ricky **meant by
hiemanshu ricky, thats what i have been waiting for before i can start
nb|away ricky, well, fwiw, i dont think I had anything else that I
was supposed to do, then hiemanshu and onekopaka ended up helping
ricky hiemanshu started looking at that a bit, but we wanted to be
clear on some technical details first
ricky nb|away: Yup, that's definitely fine
nb|away mchua, depends on if it is being considered a websites
project or a infrastructure project
ricky I'd consider it more of an infrastructure thing, but since
websites people working on it and are excited by it, it might as well
be added
nb|away yeah true
* hiemanshu agrees
ricky So are there any concrete goals that we should set for next
week on any of these tasks?
mchua I've got some for join.fp.o that I'm typing up right now
mchua for a lot of the projects, I'm just not sure what the next action is
ricky OK, that we can discuss.
mchua for instance, maybe on the decision making process it's "
ricky will be sending a draft
here's-how-to-present-your-patch-to-the-list checklist to the mailing
list " or... I'm not sure.
ricky For get.fp.o, the things I'd personally like to see a solution
to the x86_64 problem and the "experienced users need the DVD" issue.
hiemanshu ricky, no concrete goals i think
mchua ricky: get.fp.o goals++
mchua ricky: what's the "and for next week, towards this goal, we
should probably do X" thing?
* J5 ( has joined
ricky Hm, on one hand I don't want to rush things as important as
get-fedora, and on the other hand, I don't want it to get stuck on
hiemanshu ricky, i ll make a few patched for get.fp.o and send it
over to the list with some screenshots
ricky One thing I'm wondering about is how x86_64 can be presented
in a way that doesn't hide KDE x86_64.
hiemanshu patches*
ricky hiemanshu: What is your proposed solution to presenting x86_64
KDE though?
hiemanshu ricky, have a bracket saying (x86_64 version)
ricky I think we generally agree that for now at least, x86 on the
front page is the friendliest choice, so x86_64 would need to be on a
differnt page
ricky Uh-oh, I'm sure the brackets will be highly debated, but send
in a patch and hopefully something good will come out of it
hiemanshu ricky, yes but we need to make it a little more obvious to
point to get-fedora-all
ricky Some good discussion, at the very least
ricky mizmo had a great idea for that - insert some keywords into
the get-fedora-all link
ricky So people scanning the page for x86_64 will know where to go,
for example.
ricky How to do that in a non-confusing way is still up for discussion though.
ricky Anyway, let's move on
hiemanshu ricky, i ll work out something and send over the pathces
ricky What is the next step to move fp.o forward?
hiemanshu patches*
ricky We came out with a list of things that users should be able to
do at fp.o
hiemanshu ricky, markg85 told me there is near to nil feedback on the site
ricky The last I heard of it markg85 was trying to get feedback on
hiemanshu <markg85> hiemanshu, just that i'm disappointed at the
feedback for from the websites mailinglist. To be
precise: 0 feedback. mizmo, you where right like you said.
* mchua updating to
reflect this convo - holle if I'm wrong
ricky OK, so maybe we should be trying other ways to get feedback then.
ricky Like people in real life are always good  :-)
hiemanshu Yes
mchua well, maybe one action item for each of us would be to take
10-15 min and write up feedback that mark asked for
* kital has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
ricky Hopefully mizmo will also have some feedback from FUDCon, so
this cna probably wait until she comes back
* mchua nods
* hiemanshu follows
ricky I'm kind of with mizmo on the "my feedback is pointless
without context" though.
* onekopaka_ipod ( has
joined #fedora-websites
ricky My action for that will be to bring my critiques to the docs
team - I haven't actually done that yet, and that's the obvious first
ricky join.fp.o - we can have plenty of good actions for that
mchua freshly added. I'll get crackin' on them.  ;)
ricky for new and old contributors alike, it might be good to write
up your experiences getting involved and what hurdles there were
ricky Another thing to do is go to various group within Fedora and
map out their join processes
ricky If you can't map them out based on documentation on the wiki,
then that's definitely an area for improvement
mchua yep. oh, the process, not just the websites people go to?
mchua good call.
ricky (Same if you can't *find* the documentation on the wiki :-))
* mchua changes item
mchua *grin*
ricky Once we have a bunch of these mapped out, we can find the
common parts and ideally break it down into almost a howto format.
mchua yep.
hiemanshu yeah
ricky So that's one action - write up your experience/difficulties
and map out groups.
mchua when I get back from washington DC I'm going to ask mizmo and
eve and some designers to help go through these notes and make a "join
process heuristic"
hiemanshu ricky, the writing part is what mizmo meant by user gallery i think
ricky I'd be happy to write out my experiences with
* onekopaka_laptop (
has joined #fedora-websites
mchua (what makes a good join process, basically)
mchua ricky: awesome!
ricky hiemanshu: Well, I mean write out not as in to put up on a
site, but as something for us to analyze for ways to improve
* onekopaka_ipod has quit (Client Quit)
ricky So feel free to be critical and say "getting into websites was
not as easy as it could be because if XYZ"
hiemanshu ricky, yeah great idea, you mean something like feedback
mchua +1
ricky OK, so just for the record, can I ask which groups people will
be writing up their experiences on?
mchua I will do websites and packaging
mchua (actually, I'm already doing packaging:
hiemanshu web/sysadmin/sysadmin-test
ricky Nice  :-)
mchua I'll also look around the other groups and try to get the
newest members to write about their experiences
ricky Much appreciated, thanks!
hiemanshu great mccann
hiemanshu great mchua*
ricky OK, now...
* ricky has changed the topic to: Fedora Websites Meeting - Open Floor
ricky Does anybody have anything else they want to discuss before we close up?
onekopaka_laptop what did I miss?
hiemanshu onekopaka_laptop, just about everything
onekopaka_laptop I noticed
* onekopaka_laptop hates oversleeping
mchua onekopaka_laptop: we'll mail out logs, no worries.
ricky onekopaka_laptop: We got some tasks for people to work on -
writing up their join processes to Fedora and what their
difficulties/thoughs on it were
ricky Any groups you'd want to write about for next week?
onekopaka_laptop yeah, I saw that on my iPOd
mchua ricky: open floor - do we need to worry about not having
anyone on translation?
hiemanshu ricky, the decision making process, do we have a general
opinion or we have heads on top, taking final decisions?
nb|away ricky, im a member of sysadmin/sysadmin-devel/sysadmin-test
onekopaka_laptop iPod*
nb|away and web
nb|away so i can write up those too
* mchua writes nb down
* mchua will send reminders to the list
ricky hiemanshu: That's one part I haven't fully thought out yet -
my first step was to get decisions in the open (posted to the mailing
* mchua has also done irc interviews quite a bit before, if people
find it easier to schedule 30m to talk rather than "egh, a task I have
to do at some undefined point"
ricky But actually deciding yes or no... I don't have a set of
rules for that yet.
hiemanshu ricky, we might have to work on that as well when you are
done with the infra work
ricky mchua: No for the translation question - translation is
something that happens thoughout, so it's not really its own task
ricky Yeah. The decision making process is a hard one.
hiemanshu what i plan is to have a jury, say about N people whose
votes will count
ricky On one hand, we don't want good work to get lost, on the other
hand, we don't want bad work to go through, and on the other other
hand, we don't want to ever discourage people from doing work whether
it's used or not :-/
ricky I'm not crazy about voting for this sort of thing. Showing
support is good, but if somebody is against a patch, for example, I'd
like to see a reasoned case for why the change doesn't benefit users
instead of just a "-1"
mchua ricky: thanks - i figure if by mid july we have no movement on
translation, then start panicking a little more, but that sounds good.
ricky mchua: As long as the site stays translated, I'm happy  :-)
onekopaka_laptop yep
ricky OK, so anybody else have anything they want to bring up?
mchua not me.
hiemanshu nothing for now
ricky All right then
onekopaka_laptop nope
* ricky has changed the topic to: Fedora Websites Meeting - Meeting Close
ricky Thanks for coming, everybody
ianweller whee
-- Regards, Hiemanshu Sharma.
-- Fedora-websites-list mailing list

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