| markg85 | mchua, here and ready for the meeting |
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| ricky | I'm not sure either. I guess it'd depend on how many other dependencies could get pulled it |
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| juank_prada | ok got it |
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| juank_prada | ill check if i can help on that later :) |
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| mchua | hey markg85 - ready to go as well. |
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| mchua | thanks for your patience, it's been a really hectic day |
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| mchua | (anybody else here to take a look at the tasks lists? juank_prada, ricky?) |
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| juank_prada | oh are we having a meeting today? |
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| mchua | juank_prada: not a formal one |
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| mchua | juank_prada: ricky started updating the status of the (long-ignored) <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Tasks">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Tasks</a> stuff a few days back |
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| mchua | juank_prada: and since markg85 and I were working on some stuff we thought today would be a good day to check in, and figured we'd invite anyone else who'd like to join us |
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| juank_prada | ok.. i've been somehow since last year so i would like to catch up with you guys |
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| juank_prada | good |
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| juank_prada | let me check the task list |
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| * ricky is partially here |
| markg85 | one thing before we start... please don't ask to many or long questions.. my head hurts like hell and feels like it's about to explode |
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| * giarc is lurking but at work |
| mchua | markg85: np |
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| mchua | juank_prada: yay! catching up is good, I'm new so I've got a lot of ramping up to do. |
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| mchua | markg85: ok. |
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| juank_prada | mchua, im not new... but i've been lost ^^ |
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| mchua | ok, so the first thing was markg85 , "Braindump thoughts on what needs to be improved to the wiki, as specific as possible." Mark, I can't find that on your userpage anymore, where should we look? |
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| markg85 | mchua, max cleand it up. look one revision back |
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| mchua | *browser loads...* |
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| markg85 | the max version sums it all up fairly good |
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| markg85 | <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Markg85&oldid=107486">https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Markg85&oldid=107486</a> |
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| mchua | markg85: how do you think it went this week? i know we had some getting-started bumps, which is normal when you're getting used to contributing to a project for the first time |
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| mchua | but this is looking good to me |
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| juank_prada | i would like to know if there has been any ideas or discussion around fp.org main site.. |
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| mchua | juank_prada: we're kind of doing that right now, the discussions are scattered and just starting. |
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| markg85 | mchua, besides talking there wasn't much we did ^_^ so i can't really say it went well or horrible |
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| markg85 | mchua, in terms of "productivity" it went horrible.. in terms of getting to know how things work in fedora it went well |
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| juank_prada | i mean... the get-fedora site was updated with an easy way to download fedora but still think it on some other section an improvement is needed |
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| mchua | markg85: I miss seeing the images of your mockups, do you want to repost those somewhere? |
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| juank_prada | mchua, i mean the static website not the wiki ^^ |
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| mchua | juank_prada: that's actually what markg85 was working on - gathering and coming up with "here's how the website could look better" thoughts. |
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| markg85 | mchua, they are in the link i gave: <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Markg85&oldid=107486">https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Markg85&oldid=107486</a> |
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| juank_prada | oh good my bad then ... hehe as i said... im catching up |
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| mchua | markg85: yeah, but they don't show up as images - would you like me to move them to a brainstorms section on the webpages wiki? |
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| mchua | (I can do that right now.) |
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| markg85 | mchua, go ahead |
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| markg85 | mchua, they do show up here btw.. |
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| mchua | juank_prada: there are a lot of people with ideas on how the site should be improved, but I don't think we've all realized who else is talking about it yet :) so you should write out your thoughts and share them! (Do you have notes on your ideas for fp.o on a wiki page somewhere?) |
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| mchua | markg85: I think it's mostly that my laptop's wifi is molasses today. :) Will move 'em over. |
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| markg85 | ok |
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| juank_prada | mchua, some time ago i posted some ideas on my blog... i might bring them back to discussion if thats ok |
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| mchua | juank_prada: totally, yes! |
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| markg85 | juank_prada, with images? |
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| juank_prada | yeap |
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| * markg85 likes visual stuff ^_^ |
| mchua | juank_prada: and I'm new here as well, so you definitely don't have to ask my permission for this stuff ;) |
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| * mchua likes visual stuff too |
| mchua | (but is less good at making it) |
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| juank_prada | <a href="http://juankprada.livejournal.com/7682.html">http://juankprada.livejournal.com/7682.html</a> |
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| juank_prada | some of the things i present there were already discussed so it would be good to avoid that discussion again and start from where all that was left |
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| juank_prada | this is another one -> <a href="http://juankprada.livejournal.com/4805.html">http://juankprada.livejournal.com/4805.html</a> |
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| markg85 | juank_prada, i'm brand new here. i have no clue what's been discussed/implemented/rejected about those ideas (still reading) |
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| juank_prada | which uses mizmo_ templates |
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| juank_prada | the thing is... we have to avoid lots and lots of links and provide as less server requests as possible (AJAX?) |
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| mchua | ricky, mizmo_, quaid, et al - we've got 3 people catching up on websites stuff here, so it's a bit of blind-leading-the-blind. ;) if we're getting really off-track, please holler! |
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| * mchua can't believe how slow the wiki is loading right now... maybe my wifi is just angsty. |
| juank_prada | it might be better to discuss such things with them on a official meeting imho |
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| juank_prada | by now we can brainstorm some things to discuss with them... maybe taking into a count the current get-fedora section as an example of how they want things to be |
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| juank_prada | of course there is always improvements to make on that section |
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| markg85 | juank_prada, a few points. 1. all your links are 404 (page not found) |
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| juank_prada | what? |
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| * kital has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
| mchua | juank_prada +1 - I consider this a brainstorm chat. (Sorry I'm so quiet right now, I'm trying to put Mark's stuff into the wiki, and page load times are killing me.) |
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| markg85 | juank_prada, 2. i like your Get Fedora mackup a lot more then the current one online (as far as the mockup is readable) |
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| juank_prada | really?... how is that i can actually check that :P |
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| markg85 | juank_prada, <a href="http://juankprada.livejournal.com/7682.html">http://juankprada.livejournal.com/7682.html</a> the links there are all 404.. |
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| juank_prada | oh.. the links for the images are broken |
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| markg85 | and the demo |
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| juank_prada | yeah i have a problem with my fedorapeople space.. |
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| juank_prada | i forgot about that |
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| markg85 | mchua, then just skip it for now ^_^ put it somewherein your agenda where you have the time for it |
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| markg85 | mchua, i'm not in a rush |
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| juank_prada | well... that design was reject in pro of the actual get-fedora design |
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| mchua | juank_prada, markg85 - <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Brainstorms">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Brainstorms</a> |
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| mchua | juank_prada: if you could put whatever links/designs you have there, that would rock |
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| juank_prada | ill try to organize all my proposals somewhere to make comparisons, i'm sure i have some other mockups somewhere else |
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| markg85 | juank_prada, your proposal would be my idea of an "advanced" selection. the default one would then be those in my mockups or something else we still have to think out |
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| mchua | markg85: yeah, sorry, I'll defer further wiki monkeying-around 'till after we're done talking. But hey, we have a page now. :) |
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| markg85 | mchua, oke :) |
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| juank_prada | one thing that was discussed back then was the idea of having a one click download method from the main site |
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| juank_prada | which imho is a must |
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| markg85 | mchua, juank_prada: just a question in between.. do you 2 run Fedora 11? |
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| juank_prada | i do |
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| mchua | markg85: not yet, I'm still on f10. was planning to upgrade this weekend. |
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| mchua | f11 looks totally sweet. |
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| juank_prada | yes it does... and runs even better :) |
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| * mchua rejoices |
| mchua | I'm looking forward to it then! |
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| mchua | juank_prada: see, this is why we need people like you here, because you know what's been discussed in the past :) |
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| juank_prada | guys i have to go.. its time for my knee therapy :S |
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| markg85 | mchua, juank_prada: i'm planning to install it soon then write down all my issues i find while installing it and first time using it since my opinion can now be relatively objective :P |
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| mchua | juank_prada: if you could email or post to the wiki links to the old design discussions you think should be brought up again, that would be wonderful |
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| mchua | juank_prada: see you later! thanks for the thoughts |
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| mchua | juank_prada: and hope your knee gets better! |
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| juank_prada | markg85, perhaps you might want to talk about that with mizmo_ which actually has made some usabillity testing |
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| mchua | markg85: ooh, that's a good idea. I'll do the same. |
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| markg85 | juank_prada, good luck :) |
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| juank_prada | thanks... see you later guys |
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| * mchua digs around |
| mchua | markg85: some stuff I just found, <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Lrileywoods/Usability_Testing">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Lrileywoods/Usability_Testing</a> and <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Usability">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Usability</a> |
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| * juank_prada has quit ("Leaving") |
| mchua | which may or may not be useful to you writing notes on f11, I should look through this stuff myself |
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| * mchua reads |
| * markg85 reads |
| mchua | ...wow, okay, that's a little more involved than what I was thinking, but maybe I'll record a screencast and then tape myself talking over it. Anyhow... |
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| * mchua puts "mark and mel are taking notes on f11 first impressions" on task list so we'll remember |
| mchua | hm, I wonder what else we can do to help this go forward |
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| mchua | ricky, mizmo_ : ping |
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| markg85 | mchua, i wasn't exactly planning on following a usability test list.. just install and use fedora and see what issues i encounter in the first few runs. in detail testing like that stuff on the wiki can be done at any time |
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| * mchua nods |
| mchua | yeah, I'm definitely not going to do a formal test of any sort either |
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| markg85 | mchua, one of the things i noticed while running it under KVM was that i couldn't install fedora.. it doesn't seem see the hdd |
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| ricky | mchua: pong |
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| markg85 | that was just a 10 minutes test run to see how it looked and i was impressed :) |
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| mchua | ricky: we're looking at <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Tasks">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Tasks</a> |
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| mchua | ricky: I think we're out of things to do to help out other than cleaning up <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Brainstorms">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Brainstorms</a> a little |
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| mchua | ricky: any thoughts on new tasks that should be made, or existing tasks that people might want to hand off or get help with? |
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| ricky | What I'd personally like to ese more of is discussion on improving join-fedora and the join process in general |
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| ricky | This involves FAS, the wiki, the various teams, and the static page on the website. |
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| ricky | That's the latest task we were concentrating on discussing before I started drowning in schoolwork :-/ |
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| mchua | ricky: so the end goal of that is to improve our websites to increase the number of quality new contributors? |
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| * markg85 wonders if that has anything to do with my CLA critic ;) |
| mchua | (mnergh, schoolwork...) |
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| ricky | Yes, and to make it a step by step process to get involved. |
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| mchua | ricky: I would *love* to work on that |
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| mchua | ricky: are there any old discussions/notes we should look at? |
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| mchua | ricky: (or people, or particular teams other than "each team should have a good join process"?) |
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| markg85 | add it to the tasks list ^_^ |
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| * ricky searches for the meeting logs |
| * mchua follow's markg85's suggestion *wikiwiki* |
| markg85 | hehe |
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| * mchua dislikes mw table syntax |
| ricky | <a href="https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2009-January/msg00029.html">https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2009-January/msg00029.html</a> |
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| * markg85 misses WYS>IWYG in mw |
| * mchua reads |
| * markg85 is not gonna read it while my head nearly bursts... |
| markg85 | that's a lot to read lol |
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| ricky | A lot of good idea though |
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| mchua | ricky: any thoughts on good deliverables to aim at for this? |
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| markg85 | add it to the brainstorms page plz. |
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| ricky | Well, a new join-fedora page :-) But I'm not too clear on what intermediate steps there are. |
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| ricky | A start is to consolidate and document the various join processes we currently have. |
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| ricky | Figure out how those can be simplified and broken up to be presented on a web page. |
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| mchua | ricky: ok, so a report/tour of current paths to joining fedora (as far as the total new-contributor experience goes, or routes-through-webpages specifically?) |
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| ricky | Yes. |
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| mchua | (as in, are we looking for "a lot of people talk with ambassadors!" or more like "people that start on this page can go to this page and then this page.") |
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| mchua | ? |
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| ricky | Personal experiences (particularly "what made me cross the line to become a contributor") are extremely useful as well. |
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| ricky | Those are both entry points that we'd have to consider |
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| markg85 | the entire wiki is unlikely to be the "made me cross the line" part... |
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| mchua | Ah, cool. One thing I was talking with mizmo_ about was doing an interview series with contributors to ask them specifically about that. |
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| markg85 | for me the blogpost of max did |
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| mchua | Which is a pretty large project, but a smaller, more boot-strappy version would work for the j.fp.o project. |
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| ricky | Yup, that's definitely good. |
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| ricky | One thing I'm still frustrated with is how unclear the function of FAS is vs. mailing lists, IRC channels, etc. |
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| ricky | I'm of the opinion that FAS is not the place you go to join/get involved with a group - the groups there usually exist for tracking and access reasons. |
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| mchua | ricky: okay, thanks - I think that's enough to go from. The metric I'm thinking of is "how many contributions (commits, mailing list posts, etc.) to f12 come from first-time contributors compared to f11"? (not that we'll be able to measure that well, but...) |
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| ricky | The real teams are at the mailing lists, IRC channels, etc. That may need to be emphasized. |
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| ricky | Yup |
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| mchua | ricky: Yeah, that's the same impression I've gotten. |
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| markg85 | ricky, want to know my reasoning NOT to join for a very long time? |
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| mchua | markg85: I'd like you to be one of the first interviewees, if you're willing. |
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| markg85 | might be valuable |
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| mchua | markg85: (though I probably won't start doing that until at least next week) |
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| markg85 | mchua, sure fine with me |
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| markg85 | mchua, my agenda is filled up with school for the comming 2 weeks |
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| mchua | markg85: Oh - then maybe I should catch you at the start of July then. |
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| mchua | markg85: I think this will be something that goes on for a while. |
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| mchua | markg85: and not being hosed is good. |
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| markg85 | assessments, exams, re-exams... learning till my head explodes |
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| markg85 | and then still failing ;) |
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| markg85 | mchua, just ping me when you see me online and when you have time. i probably say yes anyway :P |
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| mchua | ok, I think I've got enough to run with j.fp.o for a bit |
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| mchua | markg85, do you want to do j.fp.o too, or keep focusing on the download experience? |
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| mchua | and ricky, it sounds like you usually call website meetings... did you want to call a (real) one next week? |
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| markg85 | mchua, for the mockups: none in the comming 2 weeks and then only the main fedora page and download for now |
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| markg85 | mchua, for the interview: ping me whenever you have time |
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| mchua | ricky: I'm going to start going through the task list and pinging people for updates, but a real meeting would be good, to catch folks up |
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| mchua | markg85: ok, I will |
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| mchua | markg85, ricky: I think I'm set for now, you guys need anything else from me? |
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| markg85 | mchua, just take a nice long break now before you start working again ^_^ |
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| mchua | *grin* |
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| mchua | I'll do that, my computer is telling me to take an rsi break anyway |
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| mchua | thanks guys! I'll see you later |
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| mchua | and ricky, if you could call a meeting, that would be great, I'll ping people on the task list when I get back |
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| markg85 | mchua, meeting for: j.fp.o + main + get fedora? |
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| mchua | markg85: meeting for the whole websites crew |
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| mchua | I think it'll be the most efficient way for everyone to figure out what everybody else is working on |
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| mchua | (and then have potential partnership goodness) |
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| markg85 | mchua, guess that includes me now as well. |
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| mchua | yep. |
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| * giarc has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
| markg85 | mchua, strange idea that i can finally make a change (or attempt to) in something of fedora |
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| mchua | Bug #52736: that should not be a strange idea. ;) |
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| markg85 | mchua, You are not authorized to access bug #52736. |
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| * iGiarc (n=rooms@ool-4b7ffefa.static.optonline.net) has joined #fedora-websites |
| markg85 | i'm gone. Good luck mchua. |
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| * markg85 has quit ("Leaving") |
