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I18N Project Meeting 2009-01-20 Minutes
- 2009-01-20 0500 UTC on #fedora-meeting at Freenode
Agenda
Please add agenda items or propose to fedora-i18n-list ahead of the meeting.
- Features/IBus -- JensPetersen
- Yum langpacks extension -- JensPetersen
- Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute
- default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592]) -- User:Alsadi
- Fonts package renaming
- Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim
- Next meeting
Log
15:00:01 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings 15:00:11 <juhp> okay I make time now 15:00:33 <juhp> so welcome to the first fedora-i18n meeting in a while 15:00:51 <pravins> hi all 15:00:52 <juhp> hopefully will be become more regular this year :) 15:01:08 <sflanigan> g'day 15:01:20 <phuang> hi 15:01:24 <juhp> hi guys 15:01:27 <paragn> hi 15:01:34 <juhp> who else is participating in the meeting? 15:01:40 <jamesni> hi 15:01:45 <tagoh3> hi 15:02:06 <Kaio> hi 15:02:10 <juhp> we have an agenda for the meeting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings#Agenda 15:02:24 <juhp> let's get started 15:02:39 <juhp> * IBus feature 15:02:50 <dychen_> hi 15:02:58 <juhp> first topic is ibus feature for f11 15:03:19 <juhp> phuang is pushing ahead with ibus for f11 15:03:58 --> yshao (n=yshao@60.247.97.98) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:03:59 <juhp> yesterday we switched comps to ibus so that tomorrow's rawhide should default now to ibus rather than scim 15:04:29 <phuang> juhp, thanks 15:04:52 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/IBus has been moved to ready for fesco - so will be good to get feedback from them on the plan 15:05:08 <juhp> :) 15:05:25 <-- bpepple has quit ("Ex-Chat") 15:06:17 <juhp> there is still quite a lot of work to do to complete the feature work in time for beta 15:06:40 * asgeirf attempts to sneak in a slightly delayed 'hi!' 15:06:42 --> rahul_b (n=rbhalera@123.236.183.101) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:07:19 <juhp> phuang: it is very important that the feature is completed in good time for the beta if it is going to be in f11:) 15:08:00 <juhp> I think dychen_ and Kaio will be doing some work on the engines 15:08:20 <phuang> juhp, Yeah. I will do my best to achieve it 15:08:30 <juhp> phuang: btw I was curious how easy do you think it is to write an engine in a language other than C or python? 15:08:35 <juhp> phuang: thanks 15:08:37 <dychen_> Yes, current I am workin on the building problem between libChewing and ibus-python. 15:08:45 <Kaio> juhp☺ mainly ibus-table, and ibus-anthy 15:08:45 <juhp> dychen_: great 15:08:57 <juhp> Kaio: sounds good 15:09:32 <juhp> if you have comments on the plan now or on the talk page would be a good time/place to do that too 15:09:53 <dychen_> juhp, as soon as my libUnihan-iBus interface ready, they can use SQL table as engine. :-) 15:09:53 --> sdziallas (n=sebastia@p57A2C2C6.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:09:57 <phuang> juhp, It is not very hard. I could provide some libraries for other languages to make it easy. 15:10:14 <juhp> phuang: ok - np was just thinking about that 15:10:28 <juhp> in fact there are already a few comments there 15:10:33 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/IBus 15:10:55 <phuang> juhp, Currently, developers can only use dbus wrappers directly in other languages. 15:11:04 <juhp> first one I was discussing with nim-nim and it is big and outside the scope of f11 so I moved it to another agenda item 15:11:44 <juhp> phuang: ok - so for c/python there is a nicer api, right? 15:12:22 <juhp> second item I answered on fedora-devel-list earlier 15:12:47 <juhp> phuang: any comment on third question - about remote X support? 15:13:00 <juhp> I imagine it would be similar situation to scim 15:13:03 <phuang> yeah. DBus is transparency in c & python 15:13:09 <juhp> ok 15:13:44 <juhp> any other discussion on this important topic before we move on? 15:14:25 <juhp> so aim is to have C implemention in rawhide before Beta so that it can be tested enough for final f11 15:14:30 <-- rahulb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:14:34 <phuang> Remote X session could have a remote ibus daemon, or use locale ibus via XIM 15:14:50 <juhp> okay 15:15:27 <juhp> phuang: can you follow? and I can take care of the other two 15:15:38 <pravins> juhp: when we suppose to develop scim-sinhala etc for ibus? 15:16:04 <juhp> pravins: good question - how important do you think it is? 15:16:28 <pravins> phuang: what you think? 15:16:32 <juhp> pravins: at least we have maps for Sinhala in m17n like Indic langs but of course in long term would like to see more IMEs 15:16:54 <juhp> currently it is not default for Sinhala and not installed by default in distro anyway fwiw 15:17:04 <juhp> the default, I mean 15:17:08 <pravins> aha 15:17:18 <phuang> juhp, yeah. We have the map in m17n. 15:17:19 <juhp> it was earlier I think 15:17:21 <tagoh3> juhp: is there any languages not supported by ibus right now? 15:17:37 <tagoh3> which was supported by scim 15:18:01 <juhp> tagoh3: I can think of any off hand particularly 15:18:29 <juhp> of course there are more IMEs available at this time still for scim 15:19:05 <juhp> then again m17n handles nearly all langs 15:19:23 <juhp> but I don't think we lose any default IMEs by moving to ibus 15:19:39 <juhp> for langs that use IM 15:20:02 <juhp> shall we move on? 15:20:11 <phuang> ok 15:20:31 <juhp> # Yum langpacks extension 15:21:02 <juhp> okay asgeirf pointed out to me the recent discussion on fedora-devel-list about comps 15:21:27 <juhp> and actually notting posted a prototype yum plugin that is close to this idea 15:22:16 <juhp> so probably I will see if that can be used to solve the long-standing issue with getting conditional packages like langpacks installed 15:22:18 --- knurd_afk is now known as knurd 15:23:41 <juhp> I was even pondering a feature for it, but glad to see that other people also see the importance of this and getting rid of the language support conditional nonsense eventually hopefully 15:24:13 <juhp> hope this can be improved for f11 anyway 15:24:36 <juhp> # Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute 15:25:00 <juhp> I might call this submodes (or minor modes in the sense of emacs) for input methods 15:25:17 <pravins> :) -> ☺ U+263A 15:25:22 <pravins> :( -> ☹ U+2639 15:25:27 <juhp> yeah 15:25:59 <juhp> I would like to have a nice unicode input method in m17n or ibus more probably 15:26:17 <juhp> but mixing of IMEs is very interesting 15:26:20 <-- sdziallas has quit ("Ex-Chat") 15:26:28 <juhp> a bit like combining xkb maps I guess 15:26:45 <juhp> phuang et al: any thoughts on that 15:27:25 <phuang> juhp, It is good 15:27:30 <juhp> we probably won't do it for f11 say unless it is easy but interesting idea for the future 15:27:49 <phuang> juhp, yeah. 15:28:05 <pravins> yeah 15:28:07 <asgeirf> it would certainly get IMs more exposure :) 15:28:08 <juhp> it would certainly do something that other OSes can't 15:28:16 <juhp> asgeirf: right that too 15:28:20 <phuang> pravins, currently, ibus gtk im module, could do this. But qt im moudule & xim can not 15:28:37 <juhp> in fact I think we need to think about how to deal with xkb - a lot of people have talked about this 15:28:50 <juhp> the current dichotomy is quite ugly 15:29:25 <juhp> to us anyway - there should just be keyboard layouts and everything else should be an input method ;) 15:30:15 <phuang> juhp, I think we could let ibus to manage xkb. But I still need do more investigation on xkb. 15:30:20 <juhp> phuang: how does ibus-gtk deal with xkb issue again? 15:30:22 <juhp> okay 15:30:26 <juhp> that would be good 15:31:21 <juhp> pravins: in the mean time you could write an input map for emoticons, etc 15:31:28 <juhp> might catch on in irc... :) 15:31:41 <pravins> juhp: surely i will try for that 15:31:45 <juhp> great 15:31:51 <pravins> but :) and :( these are very common 15:32:02 <juhp> yeah 15:32:03 <pravins> and we can add these in existing mim files 15:32:16 <juhp> and things like arrows, and what not 15:32:34 <juhp> pravins: yeah but not everyone may want them that i the problem 15:32:40 <juhp> is 15:32:43 <pravins> hmm 15:32:46 <phuang> pravins, yeah. maybe we could create a common mim file for it. And let others include it. Is it possible? 15:33:13 <juhp> or some conditional configure way of combining m17n maps 15:33:19 <pravins> phuang: yeah, that is also nice 15:33:20 <juhp> configuration 15:33:43 <pravins> yes we can start something like that 15:33:57 <juhp> pravins: thanks for bringing it up 15:34:12 <pravins> juhp: welcome :) 15:34:38 <juhp> # default vfat fs encoding in F11 -- User:Alsadi 15:34:49 <juhp> default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592]) 15:35:06 <juhp> is Alsadi here? 15:35:17 <juhp> I think he wanted to bring attention to this issue 15:35:58 <juhp> it is really something more for the desktop team I guess but we can help to try to get a satisfactory solution for international users 15:37:13 <juhp> just to summarise: I believe a fedora kernel patch to change the default encoding for vfat mount to utf-8 was reverted since it changed the behaviour for the fedora kernel compared to upstream and caused problems 15:38:25 <juhp> I Alsadi is suggesting that the hal should nevertheless be made to mount with utf8 by default so that filenames in utf8 appear correctly 15:38:34 <juhp> filename encoding are fun... 15:38:53 <juhp> will try to keep an eye on it 15:39:21 <juhp> # Fonts package renaming 15:39:31 <juhp> this is in progress 15:39:42 <juhp> how are people here doing with it 15:40:04 <juhp> the latest version changes the naming convention from *-fonts-* to *-*-fonts 15:40:44 <juhp> rahul_b, pravins, Kaio, tagoh3, juhp all have fonts 15:41:00 <Kaio> juhp☺ yes 15:41:13 <juhp> I confess to not having updated thaifonts-scalable will do that this week 15:41:28 <tagoh3> not yet finished for {sazanami,hanazono,vlgothic}-fonts. 15:41:50 <juhp> tagoh3: so vlgothic is getting downcased too? 15:41:57 <Kaio> talk to nim-nim if need anyth 15:42:01 <rahul_b> I have lot to do with culmus and amy be even lohit fonts 15:42:03 <juhp> tagoh3: including the base package? 15:42:11 <pravins> not finished yet for samyak-fonts and smc-fonts 15:42:27 <juhp> rahul_b: ok better do lohit first I guess 15:42:29 <rahul_b> have been waiting for final guidelines for that 15:42:39 <juhp> good thinking 15:42:48 <juhp> they seem to be settling down now finally ;) 15:42:54 <tagoh3> juhp: no, not at all 15:43:12 <juhp> tagoh3: ah ok so still VLGothic-fonts? 15:43:19 <tagoh3> right 15:43:21 <juhp> good 15:43:36 <juhp> nim-nim was keen earlier to downcase ;-) 15:43:51 <juhp> maybe another say ;-P 15:44:18 <juhp> I hope by next meeting we will have finished the fonts stuff anyway :) 15:44:40 <juhp> # Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim 15:45:08 <juhp> mailhot put forward an interesting proposal which behdad also seems to buy 15:45:25 <juhp> first described on the ibus feature talk page 15:45:28 --> lfoppiano (n=lfoppian@fedora/lfoppiano) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:45:59 <juhp> but after discussing it earlier on #fedora-devel I think I understand it now too and agree that it sounds attracture 15:46:08 <juhp> erm attractive 15:46:24 <rahul_b> how does it work? 15:46:55 <rahul_b> from input method, or apps will handle on their own? 15:46:56 <juhp> basically the idea is that through the important method (probably) one specifies the language of input 15:47:08 <-- mether has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:47:21 <juhp> rahul_b: well the exact details are still open under discussion 15:47:50 <pravins> rahul_b: might be adding language property field 15:47:53 --> mether (n=sundaram@122.169.28.77) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:48:02 <juhp> im will then communicate this to the app as a language hint which it can use to set the rendering language and which dictionary to use to spellcheck the input 15:48:37 <asgeirf> so this will in other words be like e.g. OpenOffice does, but on a desktop-level? 15:48:48 <juhp> so even if one is not running English desktop say one could still have english spellchecking easily in apps when one wants 15:48:57 <juhp> asgeirf: right 15:49:17 <juhp> well openoffice allows setting fonts I guess? 15:49:44 <tagoh3> asgeirf: at least that sounds like not something can be fixed in one. 15:50:00 <juhp> or importantly for CJK users can specific which Han language (script) they are using 15:50:30 <juhp> well doing it for gtk/gnome might be possible but it sounds complicated 15:50:48 <juhp> it needs to be discussed upstream for anything to happen 15:50:56 <juhp> mclasen was also listening 15:51:28 <asgeirf> KDE4 had a feature called 'sonnet' which was supposed to do language detection and stuff... not sure if it was ever included though... 15:51:43 <juhp> aha interesting 15:52:35 <juhp> ok 15:52:52 <juhp> any other last topics before we draw to a close? 15:53:06 <-- mether has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:53:37 <juhp> I propose to have another meeting here in two weeks time - should be a lot of fedora 11 topics by then I guess after testing alpha :) 15:54:55 <juhp> okay if there are no more comments or topics then let's close the meeting 15:55:06 --- mbonnet is now known as mbonnet__ 15:55:07 --> mether (n=sundaram@122.169.28.77) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:55:10 <juhp> thanks to everyone who joined in 15:55:28 <juhp> # (fedora-i18n meeting closed)