I18N/Meetings/2009-01-20

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I18N Project Meeting 2009-01-20 Minutes

Agenda

Please add agenda items or propose to fedora-i18n-list ahead of the meeting.

  • Features/IBus -- JensPetersen
  • Yum langpacks extension -- JensPetersen
  • Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute
  • default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592]) -- User:Alsadi
  • Fonts package renaming
  • Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim
  • Next meeting

Log

juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings 15:00
juhp okay I make time now 15:00
juhp so welcome to the first fedora-i18n meeting in a while 15:00
pravins hi all 15:00
juhp hopefully will be become more regular this year :) 15:00
sflanigan g'day 15:01
phuang hi 15:01
juhp hi guys 15:01
paragn hi 15:01
juhp who else is participating in the meeting? 15:01
jamesni hi 15:01
tagoh3 hi 15:01
Kaio hi 15:02
juhp we have an agenda for the meeting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings#Agenda 15:02
juhp let's get started 15:02
juhp * IBus feature 15:02
dychen_ hi 15:02
juhp first topic is ibus feature for f11 15:02
juhp phuang is pushing ahead with ibus for f11 15:03
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juhp yesterday we switched comps to ibus so that tomorrow's rawhide should default now to ibus rather than scim 15:03
phuang juhp, thanks 15:04
juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/IBus has been moved to ready for fesco - so will be good to get feedback from them on the plan 15:04
juhp  :) 15:05
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juhp there is still quite a lot of work to do to complete the feature work in time for beta 15:06
*asgeirf attempts to sneak in a slightly delayed 'hi!' 15:06
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juhp phuang: it is very important that the feature is completed in good time for the beta if it is going to be in f11:) 15:07
juhp I think dychen_ and Kaio will be doing some work on the engines 15:08
phuang juhp, Yeah. I will do my best to achieve it 15:08
juhp phuang: btw I was curious how easy do you think it is to write an engine in a language other than C or python? 15:08
juhp phuang: thanks 15:08
dychen_ Yes, current I am workin on the building problem between libChewing and ibus-python. 15:08
Kaio juhp☺ mainly ibus-table, and ibus-anthy 15:08
juhp dychen_: great 15:08
juhp Kaio: sounds good 15:08
juhp if you have comments on the plan now or on the talk page would be a good time/place to do that too 15:09
dychen_ juhp, as soon as my libUnihan-iBus interface ready, they can use SQL table as engine. :-) 15:09
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phuang juhp, It is not very hard. I could provide some libraries for other languages to make it easy. 15:09
juhp phuang: ok - np was just thinking about that 15:10
juhp in fact there are already a few comments there 15:10
juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/IBus 15:10
phuang juhp, Currently, developers can only use dbus wrappers directly in other languages. 15:10
juhp first one I was discussing with nim-nim and it is big and outside the scope of f11 so I moved it to another agenda item 15:11
juhp phuang: ok - so for c/python there is a nicer api, right? 15:11
juhp second item I answered on fedora-devel-list earlier 15:12
juhp phuang: any comment on third question - about remote X support? 15:12
juhp I imagine it would be similar situation to scim 15:13
phuang yeah. DBus is transparency in c & python 15:13
juhp ok 15:13
juhp any other discussion on this important topic before we move on? 15:13
juhp so aim is to have C implemention in rawhide before Beta so that it can be tested enough for final f11 15:14
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phuang Remote X session could have a remote ibus daemon, or use locale ibus via XIM 15:14
juhp okay 15:14
juhp phuang: can you follow? and I can take care of the other two 15:15
pravins juhp: when we suppose to develop scim-sinhala etc for ibus? 15:15
juhp pravins: good question - how important do you think it is? 15:16
pravins phuang: what you think? 15:16
juhp pravins: at least we have maps for Sinhala in m17n like Indic langs but of course in long term would like to see more IMEs 15:16
juhp currently it is not default for Sinhala and not installed by default in distro anyway fwiw 15:16
juhp the default, I mean 15:17
pravins aha 15:17
phuang juhp, yeah. We have the map in m17n. 15:17
juhp it was earlier I think 15:17
tagoh3 juhp: is there any languages not supported by ibus right now? 15:17
tagoh3 which was supported by scim 15:17
juhp tagoh3: I can think of any off hand particularly 15:18
juhp of course there are more IMEs available at this time still for scim 15:18
juhp then again m17n handles nearly all langs 15:19
juhp but I don't think we lose any default IMEs by moving to ibus 15:19
juhp for langs that use IM 15:19
juhp shall we move on? 15:20
phuang ok 15:20
juhp # Yum langpacks extension 15:20
juhp okay asgeirf pointed out to me the recent discussion on fedora-devel-list about comps 15:21
juhp and actually notting posted a prototype yum plugin that is close to this idea 15:21
juhp so probably I will see if that can be used to solve the long-standing issue with getting conditional packages like langpacks installed 15:22
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juhp I was even pondering a feature for it, but glad to see that other people also see the importance of this and getting rid of the language support conditional nonsense eventually hopefully 15:23
juhp hope this can be improved for f11 anyway 15:24
juhp # Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute 15:24
juhp I might call this submodes (or minor modes in the sense of emacs) for input methods 15:25
pravins  :) ->☺ U+263A 15:25
pravins  :( -> ☹ U+2639 15:25
juhp yeah 15:25
juhp I would like to have a nice unicode input method in m17n or ibus more probably 15:25
juhp but mixing of IMEs is very interesting 15:26
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juhp a bit like combining xkb maps I guess 15:26
juhp phuang et al: any thoughts on that 15:26
phuang juhp, It is good 15:27
juhp we probably won't do it for f11 say unless it is easy but interesting idea for the future 15:27
phuang juhp, yeah. 15:27
pravins yeah 15:28
asgeirf it would certainly get IMs more exposure :) 15:28
juhp it would certainly do something that other OSes can't 15:28
juhp asgeirf: right that too 15:28
phuang pravins, currently, ibus gtk im module, could do this. But qt im moudule & xim can not 15:28
juhp in fact I think we need to think about how to deal with xkb - a lot of people have talked about this 15:28
juhp the current dichotomy is quite ugly 15:28
juhp to us anyway - there should just be keyboard layouts and everything else should be an input method ;) 15:29
phuang juhp, I think we could let ibus to manage xkb. But I still need do more investigation on xkb. 15:30
juhp phuang: how does ibus-gtk deal with xkb issue again? 15:30
juhp okay 15:30
juhp that would be good 15:30
juhp pravins: in the mean time you could write an input map for emoticons, etc 15:31
juhp might catch on in irc... :) 15:31
pravins juhp: surely i will try for that 15:31
juhp great 15:31
pravins but :) and :( these are very common 15:31
juhp yeah 15:32
pravins and we can add these in existing mim files 15:32
juhp and things like arrows, and what not 15:32
juhp pravins: yeah but not everyone may want them that i the problem 15:32
juhp is 15:32
pravins hmm 15:32
phuang pravins, yeah. maybe we could create a common mim file for it. And let others include it. Is it possible? 15:32
juhp or some conditional configure way of combining m17n maps 15:33
pravins phuang: yeah, that is also nice 15:33
juhp configuration 15:33
pravins yes we can start something like that 15:33
juhp pravins: thanks for bringing it up 15:33
pravins juhp: welcome :) 15:34
juhp # default vfat fs encoding in F11 -- User:Alsadi 15:34
juhp default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592]) 15:34
juhp is Alsadi here? 15:35
juhp I think he wanted to bring attention to this issue 15:35
juhp it is really something more for the desktop team I guess but we can help to try to get a satisfactory solution for international users 15:35
juhp just to summarise: I believe a fedora kernel patch to change the default encoding for vfat mount to utf-8 was reverted since it changed the behaviour for the fedora kernel compared to upstream and caused problems 15:37
juhp I Alsadi is suggesting that the hal should nevertheless be made to mount with utf8 by default so that filenames in utf8 appear correctly 15:38
juhp filename encoding are fun... 15:38
juhp will try to keep an eye on it 15:38
juhp # Fonts package renaming 15:39
juhp this is in progress 15:39
juhp how are people here doing with it 15:39
juhp the latest version changes the naming convention from *-fonts-* to *-*-fonts 15:40
juhp rahul_b, pravins, Kaio, tagoh3, juhp all have fonts 15:40
Kaio juhp☺ yes 15:41
juhp I confess to not having updated thaifonts-scalable will do that this week 15:41
tagoh3 not yet finished for {sazanami,hanazono,vlgothic}-fonts. 15:41
juhp tagoh3: so vlgothic is getting downcased too? 15:41
Kaio talk to nim-nim if need anyth 15:41
rahul_b I have lot to do with culmus and amy be even lohit fonts 15:42
juhp tagoh3: including the base package? 15:42
pravins not finished yet for samyak-fonts and smc-fonts 15:42
juhp rahul_b: ok better do lohit first I guess 15:42
rahul_b have been waiting for final guidelines for that 15:42
juhp good thinking 15:42
juhp they seem to be settling down now finally ;) 15:42
tagoh3 juhp: no, not at all 15:42
juhp tagoh3: ah ok so still VLGothic-fonts? 15:43
tagoh3 right 15:43
juhp good 15:43
juhp nim-nim was keen earlier to downcase ;-) 15:43
juhp maybe another say ;-P 15:43
juhp I hope by next meeting we will have finished the fonts stuff anyway :) 15:44
juhp # Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim 15:44
juhp mailhot put forward an interesting proposal which behdad also seems to buy 15:45
juhp first described on the ibus feature talk page 15:45
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juhp but after discussing it earlier on #fedora-devel I think I understand it now too and agree that it sounds attracture 15:45
juhp erm attractive 15:46
rahul_b how does it work? 15:46
rahul_b from input method, or apps will handle on their own? 15:46
juhp basically the idea is that through the important method (probably) one specifies the language of input 15:46
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juhp rahul_b: well the exact details are still open under discussion 15:47
pravins rahul_b: might be adding language property field 15:47
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juhp im will then communicate this to the app as a language hint which it can use to set the rendering language and which dictionary to use to spellcheck the input 15:48
asgeirf so this will in other words be like e.g. OpenOffice does, but on a desktop-level? 15:48
juhp so even if one is not running English desktop say one could still have english spellchecking easily in apps when one wants 15:48
juhp asgeirf: right 15:48
juhp well openoffice allows setting fonts I guess? 15:49
tagoh3 asgeirf: at least that sounds like not something can be fixed in one. 15:49
juhp or importantly for CJK users can specific which Han language (script) they are using 15:50
juhp well doing it for gtk/gnome might be possible but it sounds complicated 15:50
juhp it needs to be discussed upstream for anything to happen 15:50
juhp mclasen was also listening 15:50
asgeirf KDE4 had a feature called 'sonnet' which was supposed to do language detection and stuff... not sure if it was ever included though... 15:51
juhp aha interesting 15:51
juhp ok 15:52
juhp any other last topics before we draw to a close? 15:52
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juhp I propose to have another meeting here in two weeks time - should be a lot of fedora 11 topics by then I guess after testing alpha :) 15:53
juhp okay if there are no more comments or topics then let's close the meeting 15:54
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juhp thanks to everyone who joined in 15:55
juhp # (fedora-i18n meeting closed) 15:55

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