QA/Meetings/20130218

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= Attendees =
 
= Attendees =
 +
* adamw (120)
 +
* Viking-Ice (47)
 +
* nirik (27)
 +
* cwickert (25)
 +
* tflink (21)
 +
* kparal (12)
 +
* satellit (6)
 +
* zodbot (3)
 +
* jskladan (1)
 +
* mkrizek (1)
 +
* robatino (1)
 +
* pschindl (1)
  
 
= Agenda =
 
= Agenda =
* Blocker review process
 
 
* Automatic blocker proposal
 
* Automatic blocker proposal
 +
* Blocker review process
 
* Open floor
 
* Open floor
 
== Blocker review process ==
 
* Requested by viking-ice last week
 
  
 
== Automatic blocker proposal ==
 
== Automatic blocker proposal ==
* Thoughts on adamw's 'automatic blocker' proposal
+
* The [http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-February/113840.html proposal] was generally approved of by the group
 +
* It was agreed to add Andre's suggestions and more strongly emphasize other bugs cannot be made automatic blockers
 +
 
 +
== Blocker review process ==
 +
* Limiting meetings to 3 hours and separating blocker review from QA meetings on Mondays seemed to work well during F18 cycle
 +
* viking-ice proposed using a dedicated channel for blocker review meetings instead of -qa or -bugzappers
 +
** tflink and kparal had concerns about having another channel to monitor, but adamw and viking pointed out this would mean not needing to use -bugzappers any more
  
 
== Open floor ==
 
== Open floor ==
 +
* viking-ice wondered whether the nightly images were worth the effort of building: nirik said that building them is not much effort, and adamw and others said they were aware of some testing being done on them
 +
* viking-ice suggested we have a basic smoke test matrix that all spins must go through at least once before being promoted as part of a final release
 +
** cwickert said he had made a similar proposal before and supported the idea
 +
 +
== Action items ==
 +
* adamw to write a second draft (of the automatic blocker proposal) with andre's proposed changes and stronger explanation not to put 'grey area' bugs in the automatic blocker list
 +
* adamw to draft up changes to the blocker bug meeting SOP for 3-hour hard limit, no-reviews-during-qa-meetings, and a dedicated channel for meetings, send to list for further discussion
 +
* viking-ice to discuss the 'smoke test for spins' idea further with nirik and cwickert
  
 
== IRC Log ==
 
== IRC Log ==
 +
{|
 +
|- id="t16:00:05"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
 +
|| [[#t16:00:05|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:05"
 +
! style="background-color: #42427e" | zodbot
 +
| style="color: #42427e" | Meeting started Mon Feb 18 16:00:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
 +
|| [[#t16:00:05|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:05"
 +
! style="background-color: #42427e" | zodbot
 +
| style="color: #42427e" | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
 +
|| [[#t16:00:05|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:09"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #meetingname fedora-qa
 +
|| [[#t16:00:09|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:09"
 +
! style="background-color: #42427e" | zodbot
 +
| style="color: #42427e" | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
 +
|| [[#t16:00:09|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:11"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic roll call
 +
|| [[#t16:00:11|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:16"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | morning folks, who's around?
 +
|| [[#t16:00:16|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:28"
 +
| colspan="2" | * kparal waves
 +
|| [[#t16:00:28|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:29"
 +
| colspan="2" | * satellit listening
 +
|| [[#t16:00:29|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:00:34"
 +
| colspan="2" | * mkrizek is here
 +
|| [[#t16:00:34|16:00]]
 +
|- id="t16:01:06"
 +
| colspan="2" | * nirik is lurking
 +
|| [[#t16:01:06|16:01]]
 +
|- id="t16:01:52"
 +
| colspan="2" | * pschindl is here
 +
|| [[#t16:01:52|16:01]]
 +
|- id="t16:02:08"
 +
| colspan="2" | * tflink is here
 +
|| [[#t16:02:08|16:02]]
 +
|- id="t16:02:36"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | hey, the gang's all here, now- OH NO WATCH OUT FOR THAT METEOR DRIVEN BY A RAPTOR
 +
|| [[#t16:02:36|16:02]]
 +
|- id="t16:03:53"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | jskladan will survive and free us from the raptor dictatorship
 +
|| [[#t16:03:53|16:03]]
 +
|- id="t16:03:54"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | wow, tough crowd.
 +
|| [[#t16:03:54|16:03]]
 +
|- id="t16:03:59"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | heh
 +
|| [[#t16:03:59|16:03]]
 +
|- id="t16:06:08"
 +
| colspan="2" | * jskladan lurks
 +
|| [[#t16:06:08|16:06]]
 +
|- id="t16:06:17"
 +
| colspan="2" | * adamw waves from under meteor
 +
|| [[#t16:06:17|16:06]]
 +
|- id="t16:06:49"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | hum, we don't seem to have a viking-ice yet
 +
|| [[#t16:06:49|16:06]]
 +
|- id="t16:07:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | tflink: do you know what it was he wanted to discuss about the review process?
 +
|| [[#t16:07:21|16:07]]
 +
|- id="t16:07:51"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | oh no, we're one viking short
 +
|| [[#t16:07:51|16:07]]
 +
|- id="t16:09:33"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | if no-one knows what it was he wanted to talk about, we'll skip that item
 +
|| [[#t16:09:33|16:09]]
 +
|- id="t16:09:35"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | adamw: wasn't it on the agenda for last week
 +
|| [[#t16:09:35|16:09]]
 +
|- id="t16:10:00"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | nvm
 +
|| [[#t16:10:00|16:10]]
 +
|- id="t16:10:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | oh, it was about the changes we kept making in F18
 +
|| [[#t16:10:32|16:10]]
 +
|- id="t16:10:48"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | oh, the "QA:TestCase" topic from 0128?
 +
|| [[#t16:10:48|16:10]]
 +
|- id="t16:10:49"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | keeping a static IRC channel, capping meetings @ 3hrs etc.
 +
|| [[#t16:10:49|16:10]]
 +
|- id="t16:10:54"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | oh, i see.
 +
|| [[#t16:10:54|16:10]]
 +
|- id="t16:11:06"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | well, let's do the other topic first
 +
|| [[#t16:11:06|16:11]]
 +
|- id="t16:11:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic Automatic blocker proposal
 +
|| [[#t16:11:19|16:11]]
 +
|- id="t16:11:41"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | seems like most of the feedback on the 'automatic blocker' idea is +ve, i'll adjust it to incorporate andre's suggestions, any other thoughts?
 +
|| [[#t16:11:41|16:11]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:01"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #info the proposal is https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-February/113840.html
 +
|| [[#t16:12:01|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:05"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | it seems like a good idea to me
 +
|| [[#t16:12:05|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:22"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | but it will increase the average time that we spend on bugs in meetings though :)
 +
|| [[#t16:12:22|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | tflink: will it?
 +
|| [[#t16:12:32|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:35"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | since we won't have the really easy ones bringing the average down
 +
|| [[#t16:12:35|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:40"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | ah
 +
|| [[#t16:12:40|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:44"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | the _average_ time
 +
|| [[#t16:12:44|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:53"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | yes, bad for statistics! nack!
 +
|| [[#t16:12:53|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:12:58"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | :)
 +
|| [[#t16:12:58|16:12]]
 +
|- id="t16:13:13"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | heh
 +
|| [[#t16:13:13|16:13]]
 +
|- id="t16:13:22"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | lies, damn lies, and tflink statistics
 +
|| [[#t16:13:22|16:13]]
 +
|- id="t16:13:27"
 +
! style="background-color: #488888" | robatino
 +
| style="color: #488888" | will there be automatic freeze exceptions as well (for oversized non-blocking desktops, for example)?
 +
|| [[#t16:13:27|16:13]]
 +
|- id="t16:13:39"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | robatino: i didn't reply to that mail yet, but it seems reasonable
 +
|| [[#t16:13:39|16:13]]
 +
|- id="t16:13:57"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i'll try and come up with a new draft soon; i might emphasize the rules a bit harder too
 +
|| [[#t16:13:57|16:13]]
 +
|- id="t16:14:10"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | so no-one can claim they misread it and just start slapping acceptedblocker on everything they propose
 +
|| [[#t16:14:10|16:14]]
 +
|- id="t16:15:03"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | yeah, hopefully this won't be abused
 +
|| [[#t16:15:03|16:15]]
 +
|- id="t16:15:11"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | but we won't know until we try
 +
|| [[#t16:15:11|16:15]]
 +
|- id="t16:16:02"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | ah, the viking's here
 +
|| [[#t16:16:02|16:16]]
 +
|- id="t16:16:13"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice: we're on the 'automatic blocker' proposal - any further thoughts on that?
 +
|| [[#t16:16:13|16:16]]
 +
|- id="t16:16:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | nope I agree to it fully
 +
|| [[#t16:16:32|16:16]]
 +
|- id="t16:17:12"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | ( I needlessly  worried a bit about that gray area )(
 +
|| [[#t16:17:12|16:17]]
 +
|- id="t16:18:11"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cool
 +
|| [[#t16:18:11|16:18]]
 +
|- id="t16:18:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | ok, i'll send out a second draft with andre's suggestions soon then
 +
|| [[#t16:18:19|16:18]]
 +
|- id="t16:18:31"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #info group generally supports the automatic blocker proposal
 +
|| [[#t16:18:31|16:18]]
 +
|- id="t16:18:55"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #action adamw to write a second draft with andre's proposed changes and stronger explanation not to put 'grey area' bugs in the automatic blocker list
 +
|| [[#t16:18:55|16:18]]
 +
|- id="t16:19:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic Blocker review process
 +
|| [[#t16:19:32|16:19]]
 +
|- id="t16:19:51"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice: we held this one in case you showed up - so, you said you wanted some discussion about this?
 +
|| [[#t16:19:51|16:19]]
 +
|- id="t16:21:11"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | nothing comes to mind at the moment
 +
|| [[#t16:21:11|16:21]]
 +
|- id="t16:21:38"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | so I got nothing new to add atleast
 +
|| [[#t16:21:38|16:21]]
 +
|- id="t16:22:01"
 +
| colspan="2" | * adamw checks log
 +
|| [[#t16:22:01|16:22]]
 +
|- id="t16:22:26"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice well what did we learn about the blocker bug meetings
 +
|| [[#t16:22:26|16:22]]
 +
|- id="t16:22:29"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice well we should set a fixed channel and keep with the 3hour max limit
 +
|| [[#t16:22:29|16:22]]
 +
|- id="t16:22:37"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | tflink #info discussion around the blocker review process for F19 would be wise before we get into testing
 +
|| [[#t16:22:37|16:22]]
 +
|- id="t16:22:41"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | okay, that's where we were coming from.
 +
|| [[#t16:22:41|16:22]]
 +
|- id="t16:23:02"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | so i guess this is about whether we want to formalize any of the f18 changes to the blocker bug meeting process
 +
|| [[#t16:23:02|16:23]]
 +
|- id="t16:24:01"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I think the 3 hour limit turn out working well but still I doubt ( or let's say I hope )  that we wont be experiencing that again this release cycle
 +
|| [[#t16:24:01|16:24]]
 +
|- id="t16:24:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | we can hope :)
 +
|| [[#t16:24:21|16:24]]
 +
|- id="t16:24:22"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | we all hope so :)
 +
|| [[#t16:24:22|16:24]]
 +
|- id="t16:24:29"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | but it does seem like a reasonable rule indeed
 +
|| [[#t16:24:29|16:24]]
 +
|- id="t16:24:54"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | but I suspect that it's going to keep happening every once in a while until/if we redo the process
 +
|| [[#t16:24:54|16:24]]
 +
|- id="t16:25:00"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | but that's not happening for F19
 +
|| [[#t16:25:00|16:25]]
 +
|- id="t16:25:08"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | and perhaps we should introduce new channel dedicated just for this ( not qa as some people wanted and not bugzappers and not meeting )
 +
|| [[#t16:25:08|16:25]]
 +
|- id="t16:26:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I also think it's better not to do blocker bug meetings in the midst of qa meetings or atleast I think it's better to just end the qa meeting and move to another channel
 +
|| [[#t16:26:19|16:26]]
 +
|- id="t16:26:47"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | we did that once in the last cycle and it worked out fine
 +
|| [[#t16:26:47|16:26]]
 +
|- id="t16:26:55"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | so it's a decent idea
 +
|| [[#t16:26:55|16:26]]
 +
|- id="t16:27:04"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | yeah, I don't have any objections
 +
|| [[#t16:27:04|16:27]]
 +
|- id="t16:27:06"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | it does get a bit messy having to look in qa meeting logs for blocker review
 +
|| [[#t16:27:06|16:27]]
 +
|- id="t16:27:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i can draft up a few changes to the sop
 +
|| [[#t16:27:21|16:27]]
 +
|- id="t16:27:35"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | not sure about the dedicated channel, though unless we re-purpose #fedora-bugzappers
 +
|| [[#t16:27:35|16:27]]
 +
|- id="t16:27:39"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | eh
 +
|| [[#t16:27:39|16:27]]
 +
|- id="t16:27:42"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i don't mind it
 +
|| [[#t16:27:42|16:27]]
 +
|- id="t16:27:46"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | the reason I personally favor moving/using qa channel is likely hood of more participation
 +
|| [[#t16:27:46|16:27]]
 +
|- id="t16:27:48"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | not like channels cost anything
 +
|| [[#t16:27:48|16:27]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:06"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | tflink, we cant kill bugzappers if we continue to use it
 +
|| [[#t16:28:06|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:06"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | it's just one more channel to join and keep an eye on :)
 +
|| [[#t16:28:06|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:07"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | channels actually do cost. ;)
 +
|| [[#t16:28:07|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:08"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i can see viking's argument that using -bugzappers is kinda weird
 +
|| [[#t16:28:08|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:20"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | the only reason to use -bugzappers any more is for these meetings though
 +
|| [[#t16:28:20|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:20"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | they cost in attention of people...
 +
|| [[#t16:28:20|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:31"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | so the net cost of a new channel is 0, as if we used one, everyone could quit -bugzappers...
 +
|| [[#t16:28:31|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:40"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | that'd work for me
 +
|| [[#t16:28:40|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:28:48"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | I don't much care about what the channel is named
 +
|| [[#t16:28:48|16:28]]
 +
|- id="t16:29:08"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | but using a dedicated channel does open some interesting possibilities with irc bots in the future
 +
|| [[#t16:29:08|16:29]]
 +
|- id="t16:29:17"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice: i think we convinced him ;)
 +
|| [[#t16:29:17|16:29]]
 +
|- id="t16:30:12"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | everyone is familiar and usually on the qa channel ( devs/qa community members ) but we might be interrupted like happened that one time if we use it in the midst of the meeting
 +
|| [[#t16:30:12|16:30]]
 +
|- id="t16:30:16"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | okay, so how about this, i'll draft sop changes for all the above ideas and we can kick it around further on list
 +
|| [[#t16:30:16|16:30]]
 +
|- id="t16:30:20"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | yeah, that's the problem with using -qa
 +
|| [[#t16:30:20|16:30]]
 +
|- id="t16:30:24"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | it's a pretty active channel
 +
|| [[#t16:30:24|16:30]]
 +
|- id="t16:31:39"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I assume we want as much activity on that channel
 +
|| [[#t16:31:39|16:31]]
 +
|- id="t16:32:08"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | ( which usually means more vibrant and active community )
 +
|| [[#t16:32:08|16:32]]
 +
|- id="t16:32:10"
 +
| colspan="2" | * nirik is happy with another channel as long as we kill bugzappers. net 0 is good.
 +
|| [[#t16:32:10|16:32]]
 +
|- id="t16:32:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | okay.
 +
|| [[#t16:32:21|16:32]]
 +
|- id="t16:32:43"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice: sure, we want -qa to be active, but as you said, it gets awkward if we're having a two-hour blocker meeting and someone shows up wanting to chat about something else.
 +
|| [[#t16:32:43|16:32]]
 +
|- id="t16:33:36"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | yeah, agreed that #fedora-qa is not the right place for review meetings
 +
|| [[#t16:33:36|16:33]]
 +
|- id="t16:33:40"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | just throw it on the test list new channel any suggestion for the name of that channel and or use the qa channel and see how the community reacts/wants it
 +
|| [[#t16:33:40|16:33]]
 +
|- id="t16:33:46"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | sounds good.
 +
|| [[#t16:33:46|16:33]]
 +
|- id="t16:34:15"
 +
! style="background-color: #854685" | tflink
 +
| style="color: #854685" | it sounded like a good idea when it was first proposed but in reality, it caused more problems than it solved :-/
 +
|| [[#t16:34:15|16:34]]
 +
|- id="t16:34:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #action adamw to draft up changes to the blocker bug meeting SOP for 3-hour hard limit, no-reviews-during-qa-meetings, and a dedicated channel for meetings, send to list for further discussion
 +
|| [[#t16:34:21|16:34]]
 +
|- id="t16:36:08"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | okay then
 +
|| [[#t16:36:08|16:36]]
 +
|- id="t16:36:14"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | looks like that's all we had on the agenda, so...
 +
|| [[#t16:36:14|16:36]]
 +
|- id="t16:36:16"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #topic open floor
 +
|| [[#t16:36:16|16:36]]
 +
|- id="t16:36:51"
 +
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | satellit
 +
| style="color: #4d4d93" | anymore koji builds to test f19?
 +
|| [[#t16:36:51|16:36]]
 +
|- id="t16:37:17"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | koji builds?
 +
|| [[#t16:37:17|16:37]]
 +
|- id="t16:37:31"
 +
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | satellit
 +
| style="color: #4d4d93" | lives to test
 +
|| [[#t16:37:31|16:37]]
 +
|- id="t16:37:38"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I've been wondering a bit about that do we really need iso files ?
 +
|| [[#t16:37:38|16:37]]
 +
|- id="t16:37:52"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | ( other then alpha beta final )
 +
|| [[#t16:37:52|16:37]]
 +
|- id="t16:37:59"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | as in nightly's
 +
|| [[#t16:37:59|16:37]]
 +
|- id="t16:38:01"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | satellit: I have been holding off doing them while the mass rebuild is running. Should resume tomorrow or so.
 +
|| [[#t16:38:01|16:38]]
 +
|- id="t16:38:04"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | they're useful, sure.
 +
|| [[#t16:38:04|16:38]]
 +
|- id="t16:38:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | aren't we usually using them only to test anaconda?
 +
|| [[#t16:38:21|16:38]]
 +
|- id="t16:38:26"
 +
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | satellit
 +
| style="color: #4d4d93" | I rely on the .iso's for soas
 +
|| [[#t16:38:26|16:38]]
 +
|- id="t16:38:28"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | in f18 cycle we didn't use them a lot as we were making TCs almost constantly
 +
|| [[#t16:38:28|16:38]]
 +
|- id="t16:38:44"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | but in previous cycles they've gotten a decent amount of use. not that weird to ask someone to check something with a nightly.
 +
|| [[#t16:38:44|16:38]]
 +
|- id="t16:39:12"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | also tflink's composes lowered our usage of nightlies
 +
|| [[#t16:39:12|16:39]]
 +
|- id="t16:39:51"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | do we have download stats on the iso's
 +
|| [[#t16:39:51|16:39]]
 +
|- id="t16:40:44"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | not sure koji tracks that...nirik?
 +
|| [[#t16:40:44|16:40]]
 +
|- id="t16:41:09"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | kparal: we're aiming to do fewer smoke builds for f19, to save tflink all the work.
 +
|| [[#t16:41:09|16:41]]
 +
|- id="t16:41:12"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | I don't know that it does off hand...
 +
|| [[#t16:41:12|16:41]]
 +
|- id="t16:41:16"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | there's probibly http logs.
 +
|| [[#t16:41:16|16:41]]
 +
|- id="t16:41:23"
 +
| colspan="2" | * nirik could look if you like.
 +
|| [[#t16:41:23|16:41]]
 +
|- id="t16:41:49"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I've briefly been touching/pondering the idea if we somehow can use Colin Walters OStree to our advantage (  https://live.gnome.org/OSTree )
 +
|| [[#t16:41:49|16:41]]
 +
|- id="t16:42:29"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i remember reading his blog post on it and thinking 'hmm, that's interesting', but i didn't really have any concrete ideas
 +
|| [[#t16:42:29|16:42]]
 +
|- id="t16:43:16"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | so, httpd logs are kept for iso downloads. What info from there would you find useful?
 +
|| [[#t16:43:16|16:43]]
 +
|- id="t16:43:57"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i think viking was curious about how much the nightlies are downloaded?
 +
|| [[#t16:43:57|16:43]]
 +
|- id="t16:44:07"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | 4569 downloads in 2012-12
 +
|| [[#t16:44:07|16:44]]
 +
|- id="t16:44:11"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | adamw, yeah that's where I'm at came across it looks interesting wondering if we can take some kind of advantage of it but nothing concrete yet
 +
|| [[#t16:44:11|16:44]]
 +
|- id="t16:44:29"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | nirik, each release?
 +
|| [[#t16:44:29|16:44]]
 +
|- id="t16:44:31"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | 5117 in 2013-01
 +
|| [[#t16:44:31|16:44]]
 +
|- id="t16:44:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | or total
 +
|| [[#t16:44:32|16:44]]
 +
|- id="t16:44:34"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | total
 +
|| [[#t16:44:34|16:44]]
 +
|- id="t16:44:41"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | any ".iso " download
 +
|| [[#t16:44:41|16:44]]
 +
|- id="t16:45:10"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | nightlys are only kept for a week or so tho.
 +
|| [[#t16:45:10|16:45]]
 +
|- id="t16:45:43"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I'm just trying to asses the benefit of using it
 +
|| [[#t16:45:43|16:45]]
 +
|- id="t16:45:47"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | vs overhead
 +
|| [[#t16:45:47|16:45]]
 +
|- id="t16:45:53"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | the overhead's pretty tiny
 +
|| [[#t16:45:53|16:45]]
 +
|- id="t16:45:57"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i think it's just nirik firing a script
 +
|| [[#t16:45:57|16:45]]
 +
|- id="t16:46:05"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | yep.
 +
|| [[#t16:46:05|16:46]]
 +
|- id="t16:46:06"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | if it doesn't build, we don't try and fix it
 +
|| [[#t16:46:06|16:46]]
 +
|- id="t16:46:10"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | and we keep wanting to automate it.
 +
|| [[#t16:46:10|16:46]]
 +
|- id="t16:46:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | makes sense
 +
|| [[#t16:46:21|16:46]]
 +
|- id="t16:46:26"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | it's useful also for spins folks to test if they ever do
 +
|| [[#t16:46:26|16:46]]
 +
|- id="t16:46:36"
 +
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | satellit
 +
| style="color: #4d4d93" | +1
 +
|| [[#t16:46:36|16:46]]
 +
|- id="t16:47:26"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | technically gnome users should be testing the gnome spin as well while we try to focus our energy on the core function
 +
|| [[#t16:47:26|16:47]]
 +
|- id="t16:47:47"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | but yeah
 +
|| [[#t16:47:47|16:47]]
 +
|- id="t16:48:46"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | how much testing did other then the *DE spin get
 +
|| [[#t16:48:46|16:48]]
 +
|- id="t16:49:17"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I think those might be getting little to no testing even from their maintainers
 +
|| [[#t16:49:17|16:49]]
 +
|- id="t16:49:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | I don't think there's any reasonable way to quantify that. ;)
 +
|| [[#t16:49:19|16:49]]
 +
|- id="t16:49:27"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | in f18 not a huge lot, for f15-&gt;f17 i tried to get decent amount of testing for the non-blocking spins
 +
|| [[#t16:49:27|16:49]]
 +
|- id="t16:49:28"
 +
| colspan="2" | * nirik did in fact test the Xfce spin a number of times.
 +
|| [[#t16:49:28|16:49]]
 +
|- id="t16:49:40"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | we at least made sure the whole desktop matrix was done once or twice at each milestone
 +
|| [[#t16:49:40|16:49]]
 +
|- id="t16:49:57"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | for xfce and lxde
 +
|| [[#t16:49:57|16:49]]
 +
|- id="t16:50:00"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | satellit tests sugar quite a lot
 +
|| [[#t16:50:00|16:50]]
 +
|- id="t16:50:40"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I'm not worried about the *DE spins ( and sugar ;) )  they all have active communities it's the other ones that concern me
 +
|| [[#t16:50:40|16:50]]
 +
|- id="t16:50:50"
 +
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | satellit
 +
| style="color: #4d4d93" | I also do VirtualBox installs from spins to test yum installs of other DE's with sugar
 +
|| [[#t16:50:50|16:50]]
 +
|- id="t16:51:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | outside of the desktops and sugar, hell if i know.
 +
|| [[#t16:51:19|16:51]]
 +
|- id="t16:51:26"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | you may well be right that they don't get much of a look.
 +
|| [[#t16:51:26|16:51]]
 +
|- id="t16:51:29"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I'm wondering if we should not come up with a test matrix for those that the spin maintainers have to walk through and "pass" before release
 +
|| [[#t16:51:29|16:51]]
 +
|- id="t16:51:52"
 +
| colspan="2" | * nirik nods. Suggested as much to the spins list a while back.
 +
|| [[#t16:51:52|16:51]]
 +
|- id="t16:51:58"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i don't mind the idea in theory, as it does kinda suck when we ship stuff that's utterly borked
 +
|| [[#t16:51:58|16:51]]
 +
|- id="t16:52:07"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | even if it's a spin we explicitly don't support
 +
|| [[#t16:52:07|16:52]]
 +
|- id="t16:52:26"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | maybe you two could get together and re-propose it to spins?
 +
|| [[#t16:52:26|16:52]]
 +
|- id="t16:52:50"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | what's releng take on something like that
 +
|| [[#t16:52:50|16:52]]
 +
|- id="t16:53:22"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | ( anything we might handout at various events needs to be thoroughly tested  )
 +
|| [[#t16:53:22|16:53]]
 +
|- id="t16:53:35"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | the spins setup is disfunctional, but attempts to fix it haven't met with anything concrete.
 +
|| [[#t16:53:35|16:53]]
 +
|- id="t16:53:50"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | cwickert would be the one to involve in those discussions
 +
|| [[#t16:53:50|16:53]]
 +
|- id="t16:54:18"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | ?
 +
|| [[#t16:54:18|16:54]]
 +
|- id="t16:54:36"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | cwickert: spins process... didn't go so well last cycle. ;(
 +
|| [[#t16:54:36|16:54]]
 +
|- id="t16:54:44"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | yes, I know
 +
|| [[#t16:54:44|16:54]]
 +
|- id="t16:55:12"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | cwickert, to bring you up to speed qa/releng requesting test matrix spin has to pass before being released
 +
|| [[#t16:55:12|16:55]]
 +
|- id="t16:55:13"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | but I'm afraid it will become worse when we kill the spins
 +
|| [[#t16:55:13|16:55]]
 +
|- id="t16:55:16"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i don't think we hand out anything but the multi-install and multi-desktop
 +
|| [[#t16:55:16|16:55]]
 +
|- id="t16:55:22"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | and the regular install / desktop of course
 +
|| [[#t16:55:22|16:55]]
 +
|- id="t16:55:56"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | Viking-Ice: that means what exactly?
 +
|| [[#t16:55:56|16:55]]
 +
|- id="t16:56:00"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | I was thinking a 2 person checkoff of a test matrix for each spin we want to promote on spins.fedoraproject.org. The rest can exist, just in a corner of alt.
 +
|| [[#t16:56:00|16:56]]
 +
|- id="t16:56:42"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | cwickert, test matrix spin maintainers have to walk through which ensures atleast no surprises
 +
|| [[#t16:56:42|16:56]]
 +
|- id="t16:56:48"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | for their spins
 +
|| [[#t16:56:48|16:56]]
 +
|- id="t16:56:51"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | this is the proposal
 +
|| [[#t16:56:51|16:56]]
 +
|- id="t16:57:04"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | Viking-Ice: argh
 +
|| [[#t16:57:04|16:57]]
 +
|- id="t16:57:38"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | cwickert, the *de spins are not much worries since those have active community's it's the other spins
 +
|| [[#t16:57:38|16:57]]
 +
|- id="t16:57:45"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | Viking-Ice: please consider me as an idiot who doesn't have a clue what a "test matrix spin maintainer" is
 +
|| [[#t16:57:45|16:57]]
 +
|- id="t16:57:58"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: there should've been some punctuation or grammar in there :)
 +
|| [[#t16:57:58|16:57]]
 +
|- id="t16:58:10"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | uhum yes
 +
|| [[#t16:58:10|16:58]]
 +
|- id="t16:58:24"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | I know what a test is, I know what a test matrix is, I know what a maintainer is
 +
|| [[#t16:58:24|16:58]]
 +
|- id="t16:58:27"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | the idea is that there would be *a* test matrix (basically just a test plan) that spin maintainers have to run through to have their spin 'approved' or whatever for a release, just a very basic 'does it boot?' smoke test
 +
|| [[#t16:58:27|16:58]]
 +
|- id="t16:58:34"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | I think we are talking about "it boots, selinux is enforcing and works, it lets you login, etc"
 +
|| [[#t16:58:34|16:58]]
 +
|- id="t16:58:36"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | but who is supposed to maintain the test matrix for a spin?
 +
|| [[#t16:58:36|16:58]]
 +
|- id="t16:58:58"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: it'd be a generic one i think
 +
|| [[#t16:58:58|16:58]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:00"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | can there be specific tests for a spin?
 +
|| [[#t16:59:00|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:06"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | who is to maintain them and so on
 +
|| [[#t16:59:06|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:17"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | there is tons of questions
 +
|| [[#t16:59:17|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i think this idea would just be a very basic generic 'smoke test'
 +
|| [[#t16:59:19|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | spin-specific tests are possible but would be a different thing
 +
|| [[#t16:59:32|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:43"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | qa would maintain the matrix I suppose we already have criteria for "core" the rest is just packages on top of that
 +
|| [[#t16:59:43|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:44"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | we actually already have one such matrix for the security lab spin (though no-one ever runs it)
 +
|| [[#t16:59:44|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:45"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | ok, I'm sorry, I need to stop here, FAMSCo meeting
 +
|| [[#t16:59:45|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:52"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | but we DO need to talk about this
 +
|| [[#t16:59:52|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t16:59:54"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | anyway, it seems like a decent idea
 +
|| [[#t16:59:54|16:59]]
 +
|- id="t17:00:06"
 +
| colspan="2" | * nirik nods.
 +
|| [[#t17:00:06|17:00]]
 +
|- id="t17:00:12"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #action viking-ice to discuss the 'smoke test for spins' idea further with nirik and cwickert
 +
|| [[#t17:00:12|17:00]]
 +
|- id="t17:00:12"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | I know the spins went badly
 +
|| [[#t17:00:12|17:00]]
 +
|- id="t17:00:29"
 +
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | nirik
 +
| style="color: #4b904b" | yeah, I don't think anyone disagrees... just how we improve them. ;)
 +
|| [[#t17:00:29|17:00]]
 +
|- id="t17:00:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | but on the other hand I am very frustrated about getting little or no feedback from QA about my requests
 +
|| [[#t17:00:32|17:00]]
 +
|- id="t17:00:45"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | sorry, which requests?
 +
|| [[#t17:00:45|17:00]]
 +
|- id="t17:01:11"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | yeah I missed those to
 +
|| [[#t17:01:11|17:01]]
 +
|- id="t17:01:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | adamw: changelogs in the announcements for the differenc milestones, better browsability in the wiki, meaningful renaming of the tracker bugs
 +
|| [[#t17:01:32|17:01]]
 +
|- id="t17:01:51"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | oh, those
 +
|| [[#t17:01:51|17:01]]
 +
|- id="t17:02:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | are you coming to devconf?
 +
|| [[#t17:02:19|17:02]]
 +
|- id="t17:02:27"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | 1) i talked to andre about that one and we edited the text of the announcements somewhat to make it clearer that the 'changelog' is in the trac ticket
 +
|| [[#t17:02:27|17:02]]
 +
|- id="t17:02:36"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | 2) unfortunately didn't get to that one yet
 +
|| [[#t17:02:36|17:02]]
 +
|- id="t17:02:39"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | 3) we did that
 +
|| [[#t17:02:39|17:02]]
 +
|- id="t17:02:44"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | I'd appreciate if we can discuss some things
 +
|| [[#t17:02:44|17:02]]
 +
|- id="t17:02:45"
 +
| colspan="2" | * Viking-Ice still lost...
 +
|| [[#t17:02:45|17:02]]
 +
|- id="t17:02:49"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: nope
 +
|| [[#t17:02:49|17:02]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:01"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | I will be there kparal as well
 +
|| [[#t17:03:01|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:05"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | Viking-Ice: these are requests from some time back, i don't recall exactly what the forum was but i recall the discussion now
 +
|| [[#t17:03:05|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: right, you can talk to viking and kparal there (probably also jskladan)
 +
|| [[#t17:03:19|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:33"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | perhaps this should end up in our trac instance
 +
|| [[#t17:03:33|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:34"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: did you miss the tracker bug renaming thing? cos that was a whole thing a few weeks back.
 +
|| [[#t17:03:34|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:37"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | in a pub :)
 +
|| [[#t17:03:37|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:40"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i think it may well be there
 +
|| [[#t17:03:40|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:52"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | kparal, with rotten shark bits ;)
 +
|| [[#t17:03:52|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:03:53"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i'm pretty sure i filed tickets at the time
 +
|| [[#t17:03:53|17:03]]
 +
|- id="t17:04:13"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | Viking-Ice: that's not really a czech speciality
 +
|| [[#t17:04:13|17:04]]
 +
|- id="t17:04:19"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/273 is the ticket for the 'browsability' thing
 +
|| [[#t17:04:19|17:04]]
 +
|- id="t17:05:20"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/272 is for the 'changelog' thing...it's not that we didn't give you any feedback, really, but andre didn't entirely agree with the proposal...
 +
|| [[#t17:05:20|17:05]]
 +
|- id="t17:05:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | 307 for some of it?
 +
|| [[#t17:05:21|17:05]]
 +
|- id="t17:05:44"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | that wasn't part of cwickert's request, no. but i do need to finish that up. sigh
 +
|| [[#t17:05:44|17:05]]
 +
|- id="t17:05:54"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | so much stuff to do
 +
|| [[#t17:05:54|17:05]]
 +
|- id="t17:06:07"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | anyhoo, we're a bit over time
 +
|| [[#t17:06:07|17:06]]
 +
|- id="t17:06:07"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | kparal, I will be bringing a box of bits for people to try as requested ;)
 +
|| [[#t17:06:07|17:06]]
 +
|- id="t17:06:11"
 +
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | Viking-Ice
 +
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | yup
 +
|| [[#t17:06:11|17:06]]
 +
|- id="t17:06:16"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | so let's wrap up
 +
|| [[#t17:06:16|17:06]]
 +
|- id="t17:06:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | adamw: 3) we did that?
 +
|| [[#t17:06:21|17:06]]
 +
|- id="t17:06:28"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: the tracker bug renaming,.
 +
|| [[#t17:06:28|17:06]]
 +
|- id="t17:06:43"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | adamw: I don't think so
 +
|| [[#t17:06:43|17:06]]
 +
|- id="t17:06:51"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | what are the names now?
 +
|| [[#t17:06:51|17:06]]
 +
|- id="t17:07:12"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-January/113405.html
 +
|| [[#t17:07:12|17:07]]
 +
|- id="t17:07:22"
 +
! style="background-color: #818144" | kparal
 +
| style="color: #818144" | Viking-Ice: let's hope it's not an attempt to wipe out Brno's Red Hat office :-)
 +
|| [[#t17:07:22|17:07]]
 +
|- id="t17:07:24"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | I am searching the wiki for 5 minutes now for the NTH have bugs :(
 +
|| [[#t17:07:24|17:07]]
 +
|- id="t17:07:32"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: they're called FreezeException now
 +
|| [[#t17:07:32|17:07]]
 +
|- id="t17:07:41"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: and they're always listed at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers
 +
|| [[#t17:07:41|17:07]]
 +
|- id="t17:08:36"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | which is linked from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Blocker_Bug_FAQ and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_blocker_bug_process
 +
|| [[#t17:08:36|17:08]]
 +
|- id="t17:09:53"
 +
| colspan="2" | * adamw sets fuse
 +
|| [[#t17:09:53|17:09]]
 +
|- id="t17:10:16"
 +
| colspan="2" | * cwickert needs to bail out for the FAmSCo meeting
 +
|| [[#t17:10:16|17:10]]
 +
|- id="t17:11:03"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | cwickert: let us know what you think about the new names
 +
|| [[#t17:11:03|17:11]]
 +
|- id="t17:12:04"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | adamw: I made a proposal, so I probably prefer what I proposed, right?
 +
|| [[#t17:12:04|17:12]]
 +
|- id="t17:12:21"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | well i'd *hope* not everyone thinks that way :)
 +
|| [[#t17:12:21|17:12]]
 +
|- id="t17:12:34"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | i had a proposal too, and so did tflink, but we both prefer the final scheme
 +
|| [[#t17:12:34|17:12]]
 +
|- id="t17:12:34"
 +
! style="background-color: #97974f" | cwickert
 +
| style="color: #97974f" | I mean, the new names are better than the old ones, but still I consider mine better :P
 +
|| [[#t17:12:34|17:12]]
 +
|- id="t17:12:43"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | anyhoo
 +
|| [[#t17:12:43|17:12]]
 +
|- id="t17:12:46"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | time to end this nightmare!
 +
|| [[#t17:12:46|17:12]]
 +
|- id="t17:12:52"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | thanks for coming folks
 +
|| [[#t17:12:52|17:12]]
 +
|- id="t17:12:54"
 +
! style="background-color: #407a40" | adamw
 +
| style="color: #407a40" | #endmeeting
 +
|| [[#t17:12:54|17:12]]
 +
|}
 +
 +
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Latest revision as of 03:30, 19 February 2013

Contents

[edit] Attendees

  • adamw (120)
  • Viking-Ice (47)
  • nirik (27)
  • cwickert (25)
  • tflink (21)
  • kparal (12)
  • satellit (6)
  • zodbot (3)
  • jskladan (1)
  • mkrizek (1)
  • robatino (1)
  • pschindl (1)

[edit] Agenda

  • Automatic blocker proposal
  • Blocker review process
  • Open floor

[edit] Automatic blocker proposal

  • The proposal was generally approved of by the group
  • It was agreed to add Andre's suggestions and more strongly emphasize other bugs cannot be made automatic blockers

[edit] Blocker review process

  • Limiting meetings to 3 hours and separating blocker review from QA meetings on Mondays seemed to work well during F18 cycle
  • viking-ice proposed using a dedicated channel for blocker review meetings instead of -qa or -bugzappers
    • tflink and kparal had concerns about having another channel to monitor, but adamw and viking pointed out this would mean not needing to use -bugzappers any more

[edit] Open floor

  • viking-ice wondered whether the nightly images were worth the effort of building: nirik said that building them is not much effort, and adamw and others said they were aware of some testing being done on them
  • viking-ice suggested we have a basic smoke test matrix that all spins must go through at least once before being promoted as part of a final release
    • cwickert said he had made a similar proposal before and supported the idea

[edit] Action items

  • adamw to write a second draft (of the automatic blocker proposal) with andre's proposed changes and stronger explanation not to put 'grey area' bugs in the automatic blocker list
  • adamw to draft up changes to the blocker bug meeting SOP for 3-hour hard limit, no-reviews-during-qa-meetings, and a dedicated channel for meetings, send to list for further discussion
  • viking-ice to discuss the 'smoke test for spins' idea further with nirik and cwickert

[edit] IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 16:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Feb 18 16:00:05 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 16:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 16:00
adamw #topic roll call 16:00
adamw morning folks, who's around? 16:00
* kparal waves 16:00
* satellit listening 16:00
* mkrizek is here 16:00
* nirik is lurking 16:01
* pschindl is here 16:01
* tflink is here 16:02
adamw hey, the gang's all here, now- OH NO WATCH OUT FOR THAT METEOR DRIVEN BY A RAPTOR 16:02
kparal jskladan will survive and free us from the raptor dictatorship 16:03
adamw wow, tough crowd. 16:03
adamw heh 16:03
* jskladan lurks 16:06
* adamw waves from under meteor 16:06
adamw hum, we don't seem to have a viking-ice yet 16:06
adamw tflink: do you know what it was he wanted to discuss about the review process? 16:07
kparal oh no, we're one viking short 16:07
adamw if no-one knows what it was he wanted to talk about, we'll skip that item 16:09
tflink adamw: wasn't it on the agenda for last week 16:09
tflink nvm 16:10
tflink oh, it was about the changes we kept making in F18 16:10
adamw oh, the "QA:TestCase" topic from 0128? 16:10
tflink keeping a static IRC channel, capping meetings @ 3hrs etc. 16:10
adamw oh, i see. 16:10
adamw well, let's do the other topic first 16:11
adamw #topic Automatic blocker proposal 16:11
adamw seems like most of the feedback on the 'automatic blocker' idea is +ve, i'll adjust it to incorporate andre's suggestions, any other thoughts? 16:11
adamw #info the proposal is https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-February/113840.html 16:12
tflink it seems like a good idea to me 16:12
tflink but it will increase the average time that we spend on bugs in meetings though :) 16:12
kparal tflink: will it? 16:12
tflink since we won't have the really easy ones bringing the average down 16:12
kparal ah 16:12
kparal the _average_ time 16:12
kparal yes, bad for statistics! nack! 16:12
kparal  :) 16:12
adamw heh 16:13
adamw lies, damn lies, and tflink statistics 16:13
robatino will there be automatic freeze exceptions as well (for oversized non-blocking desktops, for example)? 16:13
adamw robatino: i didn't reply to that mail yet, but it seems reasonable 16:13
adamw i'll try and come up with a new draft soon; i might emphasize the rules a bit harder too 16:13
adamw so no-one can claim they misread it and just start slapping acceptedblocker on everything they propose 16:14
tflink yeah, hopefully this won't be abused 16:15
tflink but we won't know until we try 16:15
adamw ah, the viking's here 16:16
adamw Viking-Ice: we're on the 'automatic blocker' proposal - any further thoughts on that? 16:16
Viking-Ice nope I agree to it fully 16:16
Viking-Ice ( I needlessly worried a bit about that gray area )( 16:17
adamw cool 16:18
adamw ok, i'll send out a second draft with andre's suggestions soon then 16:18
adamw #info group generally supports the automatic blocker proposal 16:18
adamw #action adamw to write a second draft with andre's proposed changes and stronger explanation not to put 'grey area' bugs in the automatic blocker list 16:18
adamw #topic Blocker review process 16:19
adamw Viking-Ice: we held this one in case you showed up - so, you said you wanted some discussion about this? 16:19
Viking-Ice nothing comes to mind at the moment 16:21
Viking-Ice so I got nothing new to add atleast 16:21
* adamw checks log 16:22
adamw Viking-Ice well what did we learn about the blocker bug meetings 16:22
adamw Viking-Ice well we should set a fixed channel and keep with the 3hour max limit 16:22
adamw tflink #info discussion around the blocker review process for F19 would be wise before we get into testing 16:22
adamw okay, that's where we were coming from. 16:22
adamw so i guess this is about whether we want to formalize any of the f18 changes to the blocker bug meeting process 16:23
Viking-Ice I think the 3 hour limit turn out working well but still I doubt ( or let's say I hope ) that we wont be experiencing that again this release cycle 16:24
tflink we can hope :) 16:24
adamw we all hope so :) 16:24
adamw but it does seem like a reasonable rule indeed 16:24
tflink but I suspect that it's going to keep happening every once in a while until/if we redo the process 16:24
tflink but that's not happening for F19 16:25
Viking-Ice and perhaps we should introduce new channel dedicated just for this ( not qa as some people wanted and not bugzappers and not meeting ) 16:25
Viking-Ice I also think it's better not to do blocker bug meetings in the midst of qa meetings or atleast I think it's better to just end the qa meeting and move to another channel 16:26
adamw we did that once in the last cycle and it worked out fine 16:26
adamw so it's a decent idea 16:26
tflink yeah, I don't have any objections 16:27
adamw it does get a bit messy having to look in qa meeting logs for blocker review 16:27
adamw i can draft up a few changes to the sop 16:27
tflink not sure about the dedicated channel, though unless we re-purpose #fedora-bugzappers 16:27
adamw eh 16:27
adamw i don't mind it 16:27
Viking-Ice the reason I personally favor moving/using qa channel is likely hood of more participation 16:27
adamw not like channels cost anything 16:27
Viking-Ice tflink, we cant kill bugzappers if we continue to use it 16:28
tflink it's just one more channel to join and keep an eye on :) 16:28
nirik channels actually do cost. ;) 16:28
adamw i can see viking's argument that using -bugzappers is kinda weird 16:28
adamw the only reason to use -bugzappers any more is for these meetings though 16:28
nirik they cost in attention of people... 16:28
adamw so the net cost of a new channel is 0, as if we used one, everyone could quit -bugzappers... 16:28
tflink that'd work for me 16:28
tflink I don't much care about what the channel is named 16:28
tflink but using a dedicated channel does open some interesting possibilities with irc bots in the future 16:29
adamw Viking-Ice: i think we convinced him ;) 16:29
Viking-Ice everyone is familiar and usually on the qa channel ( devs/qa community members ) but we might be interrupted like happened that one time if we use it in the midst of the meeting 16:30
adamw okay, so how about this, i'll draft sop changes for all the above ideas and we can kick it around further on list 16:30
adamw yeah, that's the problem with using -qa 16:30
adamw it's a pretty active channel 16:30
Viking-Ice I assume we want as much activity on that channel 16:31
Viking-Ice ( which usually means more vibrant and active community ) 16:32
* nirik is happy with another channel as long as we kill bugzappers. net 0 is good. 16:32
adamw okay. 16:32
adamw Viking-Ice: sure, we want -qa to be active, but as you said, it gets awkward if we're having a two-hour blocker meeting and someone shows up wanting to chat about something else. 16:32
tflink yeah, agreed that #fedora-qa is not the right place for review meetings 16:33
Viking-Ice just throw it on the test list new channel any suggestion for the name of that channel and or use the qa channel and see how the community reacts/wants it 16:33
adamw sounds good. 16:33
tflink it sounded like a good idea when it was first proposed but in reality, it caused more problems than it solved :-/ 16:34
adamw #action adamw to draft up changes to the blocker bug meeting SOP for 3-hour hard limit, no-reviews-during-qa-meetings, and a dedicated channel for meetings, send to list for further discussion 16:34
adamw okay then 16:36
adamw looks like that's all we had on the agenda, so... 16:36
adamw #topic open floor 16:36
satellit anymore koji builds to test f19? 16:36
adamw koji builds? 16:37
satellit lives to test 16:37
Viking-Ice I've been wondering a bit about that do we really need iso files ? 16:37
Viking-Ice ( other then alpha beta final ) 16:37
Viking-Ice as in nightly's 16:37
nirik satellit: I have been holding off doing them while the mass rebuild is running. Should resume tomorrow or so. 16:38
adamw they're useful, sure. 16:38
Viking-Ice aren't we usually using them only to test anaconda? 16:38
satellit I rely on the .iso's for soas 16:38
adamw in f18 cycle we didn't use them a lot as we were making TCs almost constantly 16:38
adamw but in previous cycles they've gotten a decent amount of use. not that weird to ask someone to check something with a nightly. 16:38
kparal also tflink's composes lowered our usage of nightlies 16:39
Viking-Ice do we have download stats on the iso's 16:39
adamw not sure koji tracks that...nirik? 16:40
adamw kparal: we're aiming to do fewer smoke builds for f19, to save tflink all the work. 16:41
nirik I don't know that it does off hand... 16:41
nirik there's probibly http logs. 16:41
* nirik could look if you like. 16:41
Viking-Ice I've briefly been touching/pondering the idea if we somehow can use Colin Walters OStree to our advantage ( https://live.gnome.org/OSTree ) 16:41
adamw i remember reading his blog post on it and thinking 'hmm, that's interesting', but i didn't really have any concrete ideas 16:42
nirik so, httpd logs are kept for iso downloads. What info from there would you find useful? 16:43
adamw i think viking was curious about how much the nightlies are downloaded? 16:43
nirik 4569 downloads in 2012-12 16:44
Viking-Ice adamw, yeah that's where I'm at came across it looks interesting wondering if we can take some kind of advantage of it but nothing concrete yet 16:44
Viking-Ice nirik, each release? 16:44
nirik 5117 in 2013-01 16:44
Viking-Ice or total 16:44
nirik total 16:44
nirik any ".iso " download 16:44
nirik nightlys are only kept for a week or so tho. 16:45
Viking-Ice I'm just trying to asses the benefit of using it 16:45
Viking-Ice vs overhead 16:45
adamw the overhead's pretty tiny 16:45
adamw i think it's just nirik firing a script 16:45
nirik yep. 16:46
adamw if it doesn't build, we don't try and fix it 16:46
nirik and we keep wanting to automate it. 16:46
Viking-Ice makes sense 16:46
nirik it's useful also for spins folks to test if they ever do 16:46
satellit +1 16:46
Viking-Ice technically gnome users should be testing the gnome spin as well while we try to focus our energy on the core function 16:47
Viking-Ice but yeah 16:47
Viking-Ice how much testing did other then the *DE spin get 16:48
Viking-Ice I think those might be getting little to no testing even from their maintainers 16:49
nirik I don't think there's any reasonable way to quantify that. ;) 16:49
adamw in f18 not a huge lot, for f15->f17 i tried to get decent amount of testing for the non-blocking spins 16:49
* nirik did in fact test the Xfce spin a number of times. 16:49
adamw we at least made sure the whole desktop matrix was done once or twice at each milestone 16:49
adamw for xfce and lxde 16:49
adamw satellit tests sugar quite a lot 16:50
Viking-Ice I'm not worried about the *DE spins ( and sugar ;) ) they all have active communities it's the other ones that concern me 16:50
satellit I also do VirtualBox installs from spins to test yum installs of other DE's with sugar 16:50
adamw outside of the desktops and sugar, hell if i know. 16:51
adamw you may well be right that they don't get much of a look. 16:51
Viking-Ice I'm wondering if we should not come up with a test matrix for those that the spin maintainers have to walk through and "pass" before release 16:51
* nirik nods. Suggested as much to the spins list a while back. 16:51
adamw i don't mind the idea in theory, as it does kinda suck when we ship stuff that's utterly borked 16:51
adamw even if it's a spin we explicitly don't support 16:52
adamw maybe you two could get together and re-propose it to spins? 16:52
Viking-Ice what's releng take on something like that 16:52
Viking-Ice ( anything we might handout at various events needs to be thoroughly tested ) 16:53
nirik the spins setup is disfunctional, but attempts to fix it haven't met with anything concrete. 16:53
nirik cwickert would be the one to involve in those discussions 16:53
cwickert  ? 16:54
nirik cwickert: spins process... didn't go so well last cycle. ;( 16:54
cwickert yes, I know 16:54
Viking-Ice cwickert, to bring you up to speed qa/releng requesting test matrix spin has to pass before being released 16:55
cwickert but I'm afraid it will become worse when we kill the spins 16:55
adamw i don't think we hand out anything but the multi-install and multi-desktop 16:55
adamw and the regular install / desktop of course 16:55
cwickert Viking-Ice: that means what exactly? 16:55
nirik I was thinking a 2 person checkoff of a test matrix for each spin we want to promote on spins.fedoraproject.org. The rest can exist, just in a corner of alt. 16:56
Viking-Ice cwickert, test matrix spin maintainers have to walk through which ensures atleast no surprises 16:56
Viking-Ice for their spins 16:56
adamw this is the proposal 16:56
cwickert Viking-Ice: argh 16:57
Viking-Ice cwickert, the *de spins are not much worries since those have active community's it's the other spins 16:57
cwickert Viking-Ice: please consider me as an idiot who doesn't have a clue what a "test matrix spin maintainer" is 16:57
adamw cwickert: there should've been some punctuation or grammar in there :) 16:57
Viking-Ice uhum yes 16:58
cwickert I know what a test is, I know what a test matrix is, I know what a maintainer is 16:58
adamw the idea is that there would be *a* test matrix (basically just a test plan) that spin maintainers have to run through to have their spin 'approved' or whatever for a release, just a very basic 'does it boot?' smoke test 16:58
nirik I think we are talking about "it boots, selinux is enforcing and works, it lets you login, etc" 16:58
cwickert but who is supposed to maintain the test matrix for a spin? 16:58
adamw cwickert: it'd be a generic one i think 16:58
cwickert can there be specific tests for a spin? 16:59
cwickert who is to maintain them and so on 16:59
cwickert there is tons of questions 16:59
adamw i think this idea would just be a very basic generic 'smoke test' 16:59
adamw spin-specific tests are possible but would be a different thing 16:59
Viking-Ice qa would maintain the matrix I suppose we already have criteria for "core" the rest is just packages on top of that 16:59
adamw we actually already have one such matrix for the security lab spin (though no-one ever runs it) 16:59
cwickert ok, I'm sorry, I need to stop here, FAMSCo meeting 16:59
cwickert but we DO need to talk about this 16:59
adamw anyway, it seems like a decent idea 16:59
* nirik nods. 17:00
adamw #action viking-ice to discuss the 'smoke test for spins' idea further with nirik and cwickert 17:00
cwickert I know the spins went badly 17:00
nirik yeah, I don't think anyone disagrees... just how we improve them. ;) 17:00
cwickert but on the other hand I am very frustrated about getting little or no feedback from QA about my requests 17:00
adamw sorry, which requests? 17:00
Viking-Ice yeah I missed those to 17:01
cwickert adamw: changelogs in the announcements for the differenc milestones, better browsability in the wiki, meaningful renaming of the tracker bugs 17:01
adamw oh, those 17:01
cwickert are you coming to devconf? 17:02
adamw 1) i talked to andre about that one and we edited the text of the announcements somewhat to make it clearer that the 'changelog' is in the trac ticket 17:02
adamw 2) unfortunately didn't get to that one yet 17:02
adamw 3) we did that 17:02
cwickert I'd appreciate if we can discuss some things 17:02
* Viking-Ice still lost... 17:02
adamw cwickert: nope 17:02
Viking-Ice I will be there kparal as well 17:03
adamw Viking-Ice: these are requests from some time back, i don't recall exactly what the forum was but i recall the discussion now 17:03
adamw cwickert: right, you can talk to viking and kparal there (probably also jskladan) 17:03
Viking-Ice perhaps this should end up in our trac instance 17:03
adamw cwickert: did you miss the tracker bug renaming thing? cos that was a whole thing a few weeks back. 17:03
kparal in a pub :) 17:03
adamw i think it may well be there 17:03
Viking-Ice kparal, with rotten shark bits ;) 17:03
adamw i'm pretty sure i filed tickets at the time 17:03
kparal Viking-Ice: that's not really a czech speciality 17:04
adamw https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/273 is the ticket for the 'browsability' thing 17:04
adamw https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/272 is for the 'changelog' thing...it's not that we didn't give you any feedback, really, but andre didn't entirely agree with the proposal... 17:05
Viking-Ice 307 for some of it? 17:05
adamw that wasn't part of cwickert's request, no. but i do need to finish that up. sigh 17:05
adamw so much stuff to do 17:05
adamw anyhoo, we're a bit over time 17:06
Viking-Ice kparal, I will be bringing a box of bits for people to try as requested ;) 17:06
Viking-Ice yup 17:06
adamw so let's wrap up 17:06
cwickert adamw: 3) we did that? 17:06
adamw cwickert: the tracker bug renaming,. 17:06
cwickert adamw: I don't think so 17:06
cwickert what are the names now? 17:06
adamw cwickert: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-January/113405.html 17:07
kparal Viking-Ice: let's hope it's not an attempt to wipe out Brno's Red Hat office :-) 17:07
cwickert I am searching the wiki for 5 minutes now for the NTH have bugs :( 17:07
adamw cwickert: they're called FreezeException now 17:07
adamw cwickert: and they're always listed at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers 17:07
adamw which is linked from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Blocker_Bug_FAQ and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_blocker_bug_process 17:08
* adamw sets fuse 17:09
* cwickert needs to bail out for the FAmSCo meeting 17:10
adamw cwickert: let us know what you think about the new names 17:11
cwickert adamw: I made a proposal, so I probably prefer what I proposed, right? 17:12
adamw well i'd *hope* not everyone thinks that way :) 17:12
adamw i had a proposal too, and so did tflink, but we both prefer the final scheme 17:12
cwickert I mean, the new names are better than the old ones, but still I consider mine better :P 17:12
adamw anyhoo 17:12
adamw time to end this nightmare! 17:12
adamw thanks for coming folks 17:12
adamw #endmeeting 17:12

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