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#!html <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /> <title>/home/sebastian/#fedora-meeting-2008-04-25-21h39-new.log</title> <link rel="stylesheet" href="irclog.css" /> <meta name="generator" content="irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas" /> <meta name="version" content="2.6 - 2007-10-30" /> </head> <body> <h1>IRC Log 2008-04-25</h1> <table class="irclog"> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">hi all!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">so, who is here for the education sig meeting?</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* rdieter here</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">warren, gregdek ping</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">anybody else?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">okay not very effective, but here we go</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">maybe we should talk about the education spin and collaboration with K12LTSP?!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">i have uploaded a possible kickstart file for a spin to the wiki</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Spin">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Spin</a> ?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">yes!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">i tried to get some of the most important educational apps in</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">but basically, it's just kdeedu, blender and scribus</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">What qualifies as an "educational" app?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Hello - Bryant Patten here for education sig meeting - sorry about being tardy - phone meeting overrun</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Hi</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">rdieter: well, i went through the repos and created a first draft list (<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Apps">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Apps</a>)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">ah, thx.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">whitenitro: we were just talking about the spin and educational apps (<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Spin">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Spin</a>)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">seems very open-ended and overly broad perhaps, hard to quantify what's best to include or not.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">esp if you're limiting yourself to a livecd (or not?)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">yeah... that's true...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">For example, perhaps something to consider omitting would be games (otoh, there do exist educational games).</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">+1</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">i think we cannot put everything on a livecd</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">IMHO, such a cd might be used for an quick overview of edu-apps and might e.g. be handled out by a teacher to his students</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">but we cannot include everything</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">maybe try to focus on 1, 2, or 3 main areas, and make sure to do them well. For example, math/science.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">at least as a first try.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Is it a given that OpenOffice suite is included - in case teachers wanted to send home assignments in ODF?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">WhiteNitro: ooo is too big.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">sounds like a beginning</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Abiword?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">i had abiword in it</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">abiword or kword would be better.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">but for f9, my first tries using gnome (and abiword) become way too big</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">now there are kword, kspread, and kpresenter in it</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">it's just my problem, that an default gnome desktop (without all the software - just the basics and gnome) ist still about 550 MB</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">and then, I'm not able to include kdeedu anymore</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">yeah, basic os/desktop, be it gnome or kde, takes a majority of the space on a livecd, not much room for additional apps.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Is a live DVD a possibility (advance apologies is that is a newbie question)?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">WhiteNitro: no, I was about to suggest considering just that.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">well, I'd normally recommend a dvd... we had a discussion on FDL on this some time ago</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">there's a hard trade off here: the ease/simplicity of using cd-sized, vs. the flexibility of the additional space using >700MB image.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Because the ability for a teacher to hand out a disk at the beginning of the year that contains all the apps for the year would be great.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">that makes some sense</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">One that doesn't required installing on the home machine would be a complete homerun.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">WhiteNitro: I think for that to be possible, serious thought has to be put into narrowing the spin's focus, it can't be everything for everybody.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Or perhaps some kind of image for a 2GB or 4GB flash drive - bootable or portable apps sort of thing</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I was thinking a focus on K-12 education</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">maybe a set of apps for K-6, and 7-12</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">But I hadn't thought through domain specific spins (math, science, etc)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">well... my first idea were age-specific spins, too</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">right, focus on 1 or 2 domains initially, would be my suggestion.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">but domain specific makes also sense, too</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">but there is a major problem:</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">as you may have noticed, we had some havy discussions on spins on FAB and FDL</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">and there is now a spin sig</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">bit i really don't know, how many spins we could provide using the fedora infrastructure</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">that's a good question, but a separate issue, imo.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">without narrower focus, the edu spin as-is would likely be of limitted interest to anyone.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">A parallel problem is that if you force teachers or tech people to decide which of dozens of spins they need, you will lose them as well</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">"For this lesson plan, you need the software on Spin 17A ...."</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">WhiteNitro: yes and no, edu-sig needs to reach out to folks not currently satisified, to find out what they want/need, and help them get what they want.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">True</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">so we need to make some advertisement and ask the people for their opinions?!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">But sometimes too many choices can be overwhelming, no?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">well, right now, there is no choice. The spin doesn't exist yet. :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sdziallas: eventually, yes.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">yet! ;)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I did just get a request for a K-7 Arts Open Source CD (tuxpaint, Pencil, etc)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">:) touche - we will cross that bridge later</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I guess what I'm getting at is... I propose the edu-sig start small, make a small, narrowly focussed spin, make sure it appeals to at least some edu demographic.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">obviously, this won't be everything to everyone, but hopefully, be enough to garner more input, so that other edu-spins could benefit.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Makes sense. What is your suggestion for the focus?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">*shrug*, I threw out Math/Science earlier, but it really could be anything. Any opinions on what would be most in demand, what's might be most popular?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">well... depends... math & science seems to be most useful... maybe chemistry?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I'm biased, I work at a University, Math dept, so take what I say with a grain of salt.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Would these spins have content or just apps?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">WhiteNitro: apps (mainly).</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I mean, later... we could think about something like a portal with educational content and descriptions for the apps</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">[bias confession ] I am strictly in the K-12 world :)</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* sdziallas goes again through the list of apps</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">so tools like audacity or jokosher might be at first way too specific</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">It is a fairly broad list in age and domain (tuxtype to blender)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">true... definitely</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">i should work on this</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I need to re-read the use-case for this spin. Is is something that teachers hand out? That students use for the their own exploration? Home schoolers?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">WhiteNitro: I don't think there is a use-case yet, that's part of what's needed, imo. (unless I'm missing something).</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">depends... i think rdieter is right</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">we need a goal for this one</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Well...I don't know if this is relevant or helpful...(jeez - great opening statement )....</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">but we just had an Open Source and Education conference here in Vermont</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">and when we suggested having an art contest for next year's conference of student created art using FOSS tools</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">it got a good reception and a request for a CD 'with all the FOSS art tools'</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">So I will be creating that in the near future</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">that's a good idea.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I would be terrific to have it be a live Fedora CD/DVD if possible</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">so we would have an art specific spin containing e.g. inkscape, blender, gimp, and so on?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">we're veering into something less edu'y and more art'y, but I still think it's something to try.</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* sdziallas found this one in the wiki</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sdziallas: sounds like it.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">If teachers are requesting it for use during school time.....quacks like duck...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">If it helps, here is the conf. info: <a href="http://www.ncose.org/node/11">http://www.ncose.org/node/11</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">WhiteNitro: does the existing FedorArtStudio sound like something that would might work?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">At a first glance, yes - though it may need lower end stuff as well (tuxpaint) for K-2 groups</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* sdziallas has a look at the kickstart file</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">this one is about 1,1 GB</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Speaking of kids, I have to go pick up mine at school. I will watch the Fedora eduction mailing list for next steps.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">WhiteNitro: thx</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">;) yeah... thx</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">WhiteNitro</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Enjoyed it - looking forward to next one</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sdziallas: ok, I think we've identified a few concrete steps on how to move forward.</td></tr> <tr><td class="other" colspan="3"><-- WhiteNitro hat () beendet</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">1. identify use-case</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">2. identify spin-focus</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">1, 2 will affect each other obviously.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">that's true</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">3. spin size (cd size or not)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">4. create kickstart and try to get it approved ?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">5. release the spin and try to get as much feedback as possible ?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I'd say to 5 first.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">don't wait/block on 4</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">well, the "get it approved" part anyway</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I can help produce/host the sucker... I think Axel had offered help on list here too.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">okay. this sounds really good</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I'm not familiar with out distro's edu efforts, like edubuntu, is that something worth looking closer at, maybe steal... err... borrow ideas?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">;) well, i was some time ago involved in the opensuse edu-efforts (not for along time)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">they are only producing a repo or a cd with packages on it</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">but they have some interesting web and wiki pages</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">e.g. they have also lists of desktop / server edu apps</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://opensuse-education.org/">http://opensuse-education.org/</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://en.opensuse.org/Education">http://en.opensuse.org/Education</a></td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">oh, and lest we forget, the other obvious spin use-case/focus would be as a delivery mechanism to ltsp-related stuff, but we'll likely have to wait on warren to fill in the details on how best to accomplish that.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">It isn't ready and thus would be too confusing at this point.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">agreed. i think at least, we might include the possibility to sign on to a K12linux terminal server</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">plus you have the problem of installing the chroot which is a bit of a unique problem</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">hmmm...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">warren: ok, I guess I had naively hoped a livecd could serve as ltsp client somehow maybe. sorta kinda.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">rdieter: well, that part is easy</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">rdieter: I'm was thinking live LTSP server that has the client chroot as well</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">cool, but harder.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">not exactly</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">ok, just cool then. :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">the code already exists for this, but not exactly what you describe</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">let me clarify a bit</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">LTSP in Fedora 9 is pretty functional now</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">but I don't consider it production ready yet</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sdziallas: definitely put some of those related edu-sites/links on our Sig/EDU wiki too.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">we're still missing a few things that Ubuntu has and we have almost no documentation</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">rdieter: i'm going to :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">This means a Linux sysadmin can today deploy a pretty functional LTSP server to serve thin clients</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">but it isn't entirely easy for end-users yet</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">warren: thx, do you see anything else between edu-sig and ltsp-bits that can be mutually beneficial (ie, what can the edu-sig do help you, and maybe vice-versa)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">yes</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I don't have time to define the set of 'edu' apps to install onto the LTSP LiveUSB/LiveDVD</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">and I seriously need more people to actually TRY my stuff and post stuff to the list</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">help me write documentation</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I'm getting almost no feedback despite how functional it has become in Fedora 9</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">if you build it, they will come (hopefully).</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">concerning the set of edu-apps: this shouldn't be a large problem, right? we might clean up the application list and order them and so on...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">rdieter: if you're referring to a "spin" or live spin, that might be a misunderstanding</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">while I do plan on making a live LTSP</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Ubuntu actually is moving away from making it a separate spin</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">instead just making it stuff you install on top of standard Ubuntu</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">This is the direction Eric Harrison wanted to go years ago</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">and that was largely our goal in merging LTSP into Fedora</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">live LTSP server is just a convenient way to demo or install it</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">"clean up application list"</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">do you mean to define your own comps group?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">this would depend on how we are proceeding concerning the edu-spins</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">if we would create different spins for different domains (maths / chemistry / art / ...), this might be useful</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">comps groups for various edu domains would be useful, especfially if we had spins associated with them. :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">if you do different domains then you are treading onto redundancy with other sigs</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">or not, the groups could still be useful.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">also keep in mind that a comps group can have both default and optional</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">default = installed by default</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">optional = easy to find in the package group in the GUI</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">warren: nod, examples of other sigs to watch out for (redundancy)?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Astronomy?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">well... art (we had the link there)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">well, it isn't an exact 1 to 1 match</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">the astronomy guys are preparing their own spin, too</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">and using the distinction between default and optional you can make this pretty useful</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">decide now what you will make default?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">default should be more generally useful</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">perhaps K12 target for default, and everything else possibly educational for optional?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">yeah, the more we talk about it, EDU-SIG is a good umbrella, but way too broad to speak in terms of any single spin or focus.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">K12 is an excellent place to start.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">true! +1</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">so we would first order somehow the different apps, get those who are for k12 and create than different categories for the domains?!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I have no chance of fitting a useful Live LTSP server on a CD</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">So I'll have room to pull in whatever edu-sig picks for default desktop apps</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">sdziallas: for your spin were you thinking live CD or traditional installable?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sdziallas: yep.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">because LiveCD's can't live openoffice</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">err</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">can't fit</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">warren: livecd, atm anyway</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">that's true... I would really like to get openoffice in, but is just not possible to get it on a cd</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">and it does not makes sense to create a dvd, if you're creating one with the default edu-apps and k12ltsp</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">so we are going to stick to the cd, right? :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">eh</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">you wont fit on a CD</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sdziallas: focussing on categorizing apps, making groups sounds like a good forward right now.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">a good *way* forward even.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">rdieter: +100</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">rdieter: yes, good idea</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">warren: then, we are going to use abiword or kword (depending on the desktop environment)</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* rdieter goes to look at comps now.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">(Sorry, /me got called into another meeting)</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* sdziallas has again a look at the app list in the wiki</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">ok, there is an education group already, but it's way way small as-is.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">i think there are also some interesting packages in the scientific group...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">right, we can help sort that out, make sure things are categorized better, possibly move some, possibly list some apps in multiple groups. (but that has it's own down-sides)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">+1 again ;)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">OK, I'll work on reviewing comps, and make some suggestions and ask for feedback on list.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I'm going to order the list in the wiki somehow, ok?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">sdziallas: please do, that'll make my job easier. :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">work in progress ;)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">so yeah, start out by group defining</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I'll have a live LTSP server test spin during the next few weeks</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">cool.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">the key reason for doing live LTSP server is because people without internet or slow internet especially in developing countries can't use the standard ltsp-build-client to install their chroot</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">warren</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">it needs to download ~330+ packages</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">ups... sounds logic.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">i still remember the times when i had a 56k modem - not so much time ago</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">so a live media seems to be a pretty good solution for such a problem</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I try not to remember... :)</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">agreed. we shouldn't remember that...</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">so since we now have something like a plan, do you think we should close this meeting and talk again in some days / weeks?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">nod, I'm out of ideas for today anyway.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">me too</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">okay. so, i'm going to keep the log and prepare some posts to the wiki and the mailing list</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">thank you everybody!</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">any plans for next meeting? is this time okay?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">or should we just discuss this on the list?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">this time works for me.</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">ok...</td></tr> <tr><td class="action" colspan="3">* sdziallas won't be here next friday, but lets talk about this on the list, okay?</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">rdieter</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">ok</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">ok... so again thx, and cu everybody</td></tr> <tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">sdziallas</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">meeting adjourned :P</td></tr> </table> <div class="generatedby"> <p>Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by <a href="mailto:marius@pov.lt">Marius Gedminas</a> - find it at <a href="http://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/">mg.pov.lt</a>!</p> </div> </body> </html>