Ambassadors/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/2008-01-21/HTML Log

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AndreasR Hallo ;)
fabian_a hi guys
iWolf Hello
AndreasR Hi there
AndreasR any news from francesco regarding our meeting
iWolf AndreasR: he sent the reminder yesterday. I would have expected him to be here...  :)
AndreasR me too ;)
AndreasR ahhh
fugolini hello
AndreasR Hi francesco
fugolini sorry but the rain had a delay
iWolf fugolini: hello
AndreasR  :)
fugolini as you know sometime on monday i have problem with train
fugolini how many people are there?
iWolf fugolini: no worries.
AndreasR me is here, too
fugolini ok, we can have an informal meeting
jmbuser JohnBabich
iWolf fabian_a: was here a moment ago.
fabian_a i'm still here
iWolf and jmbuser joing a few minutes ago as well
iWolf s/joing/joined/
fugolini perfect we are 5 members
fugolini so we can start
fabian_a where is rodrigo?
fugolini mhh....
fugolini i think is working
fugolini As you know i sent an email where i list open discussion, near to be closed ones and some proposals
fugolini Have you questions regarding those ones?
fugolini ok i will list those ones, if someone has something to say please write ! or ?
jmbuser  !
fugolini jmbuser:
jmbuser Are Max, Paul and/or Jack here?
jmbuser eof
fugolini i don't know, but we can ping them, if you want
jmbuser please
fugolini ping stickster
fugolini pins spevack_
stickster fugolini: pong
fugolini i don't find jack
jmbuser ping spevack_
fugolini hi stickster, we are holding FAmSCo meeting
stickster Excellent, I'm logging and listening
fugolini good
jmbuser thanks
fugolini Actually there are those open discussion (tell me if i forgot something):
fugolini opening FAmSCo Mailing List archives:
iWolf  !
fugolini at the end i think we have decided to hide this issue until we will not find a solution to solve critical problem
fugolini but i think iWolf know better than me his proposal
fugolini iWolf
iWolf While I still think it is an idea worth considering again, we can close this for now. If we are in agreement that we try to give people insight into what we are discussing.
iWolf Maybe via a summary in Fedora News for people interested in what we are up to now.
iWolf eof
jmbuser  !
fugolini jmbuser:
jmbuser +1 on FWN summary
jmbuser eof
* kital (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital) has joined #fedora-meeting
fugolini +1 too
AndreasR  ?
fugolini i think we have to consider seriously this proposal,
fugolini AndreasR:
AndreasR these logs are open, aren't them?
fugolini yes
AndreasR isn't it enough
AndreasR eof
iWolf  !
fugolini iWolf:
iWolf Some folks see us a a group that meets and discusses behind closed doors. The moving of the meeting to the meeting channel and opening the list archives were my ideas to solve that.
iWolf People seemed against opening the list archives, but I think the community should still have a summary available of our hot items.
AndreasR  !
iWolf A summary to Fedora News could solve that and hopefully help ease the community that we aren't plotting evilly on the list.  :)
iWolf eof
fugolini AndreasR:
AndreasR I agree... a summary is a good choice.. but the way we find our solutions or our way is difficult enough... I don't want to do everything in public
AndreasR there are topics which are better discussed in private
AndreasR sorry for my writing... :)
AndreasR eof
fugolini yes, there are some topic that will not publicized
jmbuser  !
fugolini jmbuser
jmbuser There is definitely a need for confidentiality on some matters like personal finances, and there is also a need for transparency. We can have both.
jmbuser eof
AndreasR +1
fabian_a +1
AndreasR  !
fugolini yes some topics have to be hidden, but i agree completely to make weekyl/monthly report
fugolini eof
fugolini AndreasR
AndreasR one word regarding the opening of the old archiv
AndreasR I think the stored information has been made in view that it is closed
AndreasR I think this would be bad if nobady looked at it before someone opens
AndreasR eof
fugolini So we have to take a decision. I saw many people agree not to publicize archives
fugolini but many of us approve the FN report
fugolini so i think we can start working over this
fugolini Isn't it?
iWolf +1 to FN report
fugolini +1 too
jmbuser +1
AndreasR +1 to FN -1 to opening the old list -1 to make it public
fabian_a +1 to report, -1 to open the archive
fugolini So with a strenght majority FAmSCo approve FAmSCo's Report on FN
fugolini iWolf: can you send in the list a brief plan?
iWolf yep
fugolini good
fabian_a  !
fugolini fabian_a:
fabian_a can we go a bit fast please?
fabian_a eof
fugolini yes
fugolini - Jack role in the Ambassadors Project and FAmSCo: i think we have just solved this issue so we can go ahead
jmbuser +1
fabian_a +1
fugolini - FAmSCo and new Fedora Local Entities and Leaders (e.g. Invite Local Leader to FAmSCo IRC meetings and M-L discussion too)
iWolf +1
iWolf er, to the Jack role. :)
fugolini i think we have to wait some time
fugolini after FOSDEM and after some Local entities meetings
fugolini we can just start talking about coordination of those ones,
AndreasR  !
fugolini maybe with meetings or other tools
fugolini AndreasR
AndreasR I am not sure if I understand this right... what do you mean with "we can just starting talking about coordination"
AndreasR eof
AndreasR sorry
AndreasR missed one line
AndreasR go on
AndreasR eof
fugolini about management, how to work to link them each other and guide them
fugolini eof
fugolini I think we have to discuss deeper on this topic, maybe in the list (after say something)
jmbuser  !
fugolini jmbuser:
jmbuser Coordinating the various geographic regions, I believe, will be an evolutionary process, and it will take some time to get the setup just right.
jmbuser We will need to be willing to try different approaches and we may need to modify things as we go along as a group.
jmbuser eof
fugolini +++1
fugolini So, we can go ahead
fugolini (i will send an email with some proposal and some plans about it)
fugolini FAmSCo tasks groups: are those usefull? Have we to change those?
fugolini I think it's really important to decide about the future of Tasks group
fugolini in the past they didn't work a lot, so i think we have to decide over the future
AndreasR  ?
fugolini " Now task groups may not be the best way to do it, but
fugolini if we disband them, we will need to make sure some of that is still
fugolini taken care of."
fugolini AndreasR
AndreasR what do you mean by task groups..... assain tasks to some of us building a group
AndreasR eof
fugolini Task groups are made to speed FAmSCo work, dividing the work in some groups composed by famsco member
fugolini *formed
AndreasR +1
fugolini i think if we divide the work, first of all, we have to be sure that they will work, without this i think we can continue talking in the list
fugolini Task Gorups means that someone has to manage daily all the issue realted to a group (e.g. events)
fugolini eof
fugolini Now we have to decide
AndreasR  !
fugolini i give my opinion i think it's your turn.
fugolini AndreasR
AndreasR we are less menpower so I think we will need a primary and a secondary person ... and we need to keep it flexible by a good communication
AndreasR as you know there are some days with bad trains
AndreasR eof
fugolini Someone else?
fugolini ok, if nobody has other things to say related to this issue we can go ahed (as the last topic we will continue the discussion in the list)
fugolini I think everyone has an opinion or just a ideas i think it's necessary to spread it to start changing the situation
fugolini Personally i have finished with the topics
iWolf  !
fugolini iWolf:
iWolf There is an agenda here as well:
iWolf eof
fugolini i think it's not updated
fugolini ops
fugolini Thank you fabian :)
fugolini Personal CLA reminders
fugolini (i prefer to not discuss merge of mailing list here because it would take a lot of time and we are late)
fugolini fabian_a: can you introduce the discussion
fugolini (related to CLA)
fabian_a there are some people int the ambassador group
fabian_a who haven't sign the CLA
fabian_a we can try to bring them in but there are some issues
fabian_a there are some problems with the CLA
fabian_a a long time ago I tried to establish translated version of the CLA
fabian_a "lowering the barriers" is a nice statement but nobody really does anything
fabian_a the german version of the CLA is there but not integrate in any process
fabian_a i guess that there are other translated versions of the CLA it should be possible to bring more people in
fabian_a eof
jmbuser  !
fugolini jmbuser:
jmbuser Let's make it a priority to translate the CLA and put it in the process - this is something I think people want and need.
jmbuser eof
AndreasR +1
fabian_a +1
fugolini jmbuser: right, i think there are also many legal related issue behind the CLA, probably jack or paul can help us
fabian_a  !
fugolini for the rest +1
fugolini fabian_a
stickster I think the main issue with translating the CLA is that it would have to be approved by a lawyer fluent in both English and the new language
fabian_a there are translated version of a lot of licenses (gpl).
stickster True, and I believe the FSF has probably coordinated that with counsel.
fabian_a this versions are to help the people to understand the content but the original version will still be the english one
themayor may i interject?
EvilBob  !
fabian_a eof
fugolini For this time, ok.
fugolini themayor then EvilBob
themayor okay
themayor sorry bob
EvilBob themayor: you have the floor GA
themayor first of all, whats the purpose of translating the CLA, if we want to sign up more ambassadors i think thats the wrong approach
themayor i dont want people just to sign up so they can sign up and then never do anything
themayor much similar to the problem we are facing now
themayor we need to have a way to make sure that the poeple who are signing up are not just doing so to get media or whatever sent to them
themayor that can be accomplished without becoming an ambassador
themayor thats all for now, just some thoughts
fugolini no the aim of this proposal is different: we want that people understand the licence and then take a decision (the problem start from the people who don't sign the licence)
fugolini EvilBob
EvilBob The CLA "issue" applies to all facets of the Fedora Project not just Ambassadors, It think this problem should be addressed in a larger scope, but can you translate the CLA to English while you are at it... EOF
themayor bob is 1000% right
fabian_a  !
f13 s/translate/rewrite
fugolini fabian_a:
f13 we can't do translations of it, we can however work to make it just more simple period.
f13 (translations are considered legal advice, which Fedora cannot and will not provide)
EvilBob and should not
AndreasR  ?
themayor  !
fabian_a i believe that 90% of all people who have signed the CLA don't understand the whole document because they are not much in to law
* EvilBob goes back to his corner before this orderly meeting becomes a riot...
fabian_a now think about the non-english people...
fabian_a eof
fugolini AndreasR:
AndreasR don't go back in the corner
f13  !
AndreasR are we talking about changing... or do we talk about a translation to make it easier to understand
AndreasR eof
fugolini f13
jmbuser  !
f13 A couple things. A) the CLA is a legal document to cover RH's and Fedora's ass in general. As such, translations into different languages are going to be difficult to do, as they usually have to be done by legal council in those countries, and then re-reviewed by RH legal.
loupgaroublond what about non legally binding translations?
f13 B) we can't make "plain english" or "plain <language>" translations of the CLA either, as that is considered to be providing legal advice, something you'd use your lawyer to do. We can make suggestions on changing the CLA to make it easier to understand, but then you enter the nightmare of having everybody re-sign the CLA.
f13 loupgaroublond: cannot be provided by the FEdora project.
f13 loupgaroublond: your lawyer can draft something up for you, but (s)he would probably not want you to share it with anybody else.
f13 eof.
fugolini jmbuser:
GeroldKa  ?
loupgaroublond f13: what about a clause in the CLA permitting simplification, so that it can be changed without resigning it?
themayor loupgaroublond: too late, it would have had to have been in there already
* EvilBob looks at themayor's ignored ! way up there
themayor EvilBob: dont worry, they will get to me
jmbuser f13: u go 1st
loupgaroublond it would have been, but this way, if you phrase things correctly, people only need to resign it once, rather than many times
AndreasR  !
f13 loupgaroublond: you're going to find it hard to get people to be willing to sign a document that has the right to be changed out from under them at any time.
jmbuser rather, theMayor
fugolini Please use ! or ? to enter the discussion
EvilBob loupgaroublond: this is a structured meeting
fugolini I want to remember this is FAmSCo meeting
loupgaroublond oh, sorry
loupgaroublond any wiki pages with rules?
themayor okay, can we not get into this now and just sent this to someone, perhaps paul or max, who can take this as a solid question to legal
themayor and see what comes of it
themayor i think max would be interested in this any way
iWolf loupgaroublond:
iWolf themayor: +1
fugolini AndreasR:
AndreasR I didn't got an answere....
AndreasR in the first case "f13" is right the CLA is a legal document to cover RH's and Fedora's ass in general........
AndreasR so task to max..
AndreasR eof
f13 sorry, f13 == Jesse Keating
fabian_a  !
fugolini fabian_a:
fabian_a i'm talking about unofficial version of the CLA translated in other languages to help possible contributors to become a feeling of the content of the CLA.
fabian_a the only legal document is the english one and will be it.
AndreasR +1
fabian_a just to make it clear
fabian_a there was already a discussion about that
fabian_a a year ago
EvilBob  !
fabian_a eof
fugolini EvilBob:
EvilBob You can discuss it 100 times a day, it does not matter, with out the approval of red hat legal it can't come form Fedora Project
EvilBob from
EvilBob EOF
themayor  !
fugolini themayor:
themayor ask max about, move on. next topic
iWolf +1
jmbuser +1
fugolini fabian_a: send an email to Max and the fedora legal guy (see in the wiki)
fugolini *to the
fugolini I think it's Tom Callawy
fugolini it's ok for you?
AndreasR  !
fugolini AndreasR:
fabian_a i can send the stuff again
AndreasR sorry I think we are talking about different things.... does anybody read fabian_a's post "we aretalking about unofficial version of the CLA translated in other languages to help possible contributors to become a feeling of the content of the CLA.
AndreasR the only legal document is the english one and will be it.
AndreasR eof
EvilBob  !
themayor eof eof eof eof eof eof
themayor move on
themayor next topic
EvilBob X
AndreasR next
iWolf fugolini: anything else for today's meeting?
fugolini as i say before
fugolini i prefer not to discuss about the merge
AndreasR +1
fugolini so if fabian_a or the other FAmSCo member haven't any issue, we can asjourn the meeting
jmbuser +1
fugolini +1
iWolf +1
themayor +1
AndreasR  :)
fabian_a +1
fugolini so the next meeting probably will be held 4th feb
fugolini i will send you a mail with all details
AndreasR thanks... and have a good night@all
fugolini until this day we will continue working on the list
* EvilBob marks his calendar, make sure he is out of the office that day

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