From Fedora Project Wiki

Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-06-02



  • adamw
  • arxs
  • iarlyy
  • thomasj
  • poelcat
  • SMParrish

Meeting Recap

The metrics are now in beta. Bug reports and RFE's should be posted here


proposal for FAS changes - New bugzappers to apply to 'triagers', and for that to be automatically linked to 'fedorabugs', making 'triagers' group an accurate record of our actual bugzappers membership. This has been forwarded to the FAS admins.

Awaiting changes to bugzilla before going officially into effect. See

BugZappers can begin to set the severity field on bugs reported to rawhide.

  • Open Floor

arxs discussed the addition of to the common bugs page. It was agreed it should be added which arxs will do.

SMParrish brought up a very good suggestion for fellow triagers. Full information here:

IRC Transcript

adamw bugzappers meeting time - show of limbs 08:01
* poelcat here 08:01
* arxs hands up 08:01
* thomasj here 08:02
adamw anyone else? 08:02
adamw let's give iarlyy a minute... 08:03
adamw ach,well, that's long enough! 08:04
adamw alright, topic #1: triage metrics 08:04
adamw comphappy has a final today so i shall do my finest comphappy impression once again 08:04
* SMParrish here 08:04
adamw heya 08:05
adamw alright, so, the main news: the metrics system is basically all up and running 08:05
adamw it's now running on live data, not test snapshots 08:05
adamw so this is now the 'beta' period: comphappy wants people to be using it, and filing reports on any problems they find 08:06
adamw bugs to be filed at 08:06
adamw so, big vote of thanks to comphappy for being awesome and making that for us. alright. anyone else on this topic? 08:07
poelcat adamw: file bugs :) 08:07
* poelcat goes to find url 08:07
arxs 08:07
poelcat 08:08
adamw thanks 08:08
poelcat click on "new ticket" and component = triageweb 08:08
adamw right 08:09
adamw so please do be playing with the system, and file reports for any problems or ideas you have 08:09
poelcat what is our target "go live" date? 08:09
* poelcat wasn't sure if it changed or not 08:10
adamw well, it's a bit of a dubious distinction now because we may as well start using it to generate useful data now - it was always intended more for us to track our own numbers than to be something for 'the public' - but I think comphappy said the beta period would end as far as he and infrastructure are concerned early next month 08:10
poelcat okay, i wasn't clear if we were collecting "real data" or just enough to test it 08:11
adamw nope, it's live on the real bz data now updated every night, so we may as well use it 08:11
adamw welcome iarlyy :) 08:12
iarlyy mibbit again, crashing... :@ 08:12
adamw alright...i think we covered the metrics 08:12
adamw oh, except for one tangential topic: comphappy has a plan to deal with the FAS groups 08:13
adamw as we've discussed before, there's a 'triagers' groups and a 'fedorabugs' group within FAS 08:13
adamw currently, bugzappers apply to 'fedorabugs' and there's no real set process to get into the 'triagers' group, which isn't used for much 08:13
adamw however, 'fedorabugs' contains much more than just bugzappers group members: anyone who needs elevated bz privileges for some reason gets into it 08:14
adamw so the proposal is for new bugzappers to apply to 'triagers', and for that to be automatically linked to 'fedorabugs' 08:14
adamw then the 'triagers' group would be a good accurate record of our actual bugzappers membership 08:14
adamw so...that's the plan :) it seems sound to me, i couldn't fault it. currently it's waiting on the fas admins. 08:14
adamw the link to the metric script, btw, is that the metric script uses the 'triagers' group to decide who's a bugzapper. 08:15
poelcat adamw: sounds good... i thought comphappy had 'triagers' originally set up for this purpose 08:15
adamw i'm not sure what the history is there, but that sounds like the sane way to do it to me anyway 08:15
poelcat agree :) 08:16
iarlyy adamw: its a great idea.. fully agree 08:16
adamw alright, comphappy says he'll be here for next week's meeting so he can give us an update on that then 08:16
adamw alright, next topic: priority/severity again (ugh). this is waiting on the bugzilla admins to restrict access to the priority/severity fields 08:17
adamw i didn't want to go ahead and put the policy into place until that's done, but it's annoying 08:17
adamw it's being handled on a bug report: 08:17
buggbot Bug 495985: medium, medium, ---, itamar, NEW, [RFE ] Hide Severity/Priority field from everyone except the maintainer/developer 08:17
adamw so I'm just twiddling my thumbs waiting on that at present :\ 08:17
arxs well, i started to set the severity only on rawhide bugs, and sometime i need to adjust down the severity who are set by the user. And no severity war was happend :) 08:18
adamw arxs: hah! vindication! 08:19
adamw that's great, thanks for doing that 08:19
adamw i think everyone could certainly start doing that if they like, and we'll deal with any unholy revision wars if any actually happen 08:20
adamw anyone else started using severity yet? 08:20
adamw well, er, feel free to. :) 08:21
iarlyy unfortunately, I have to leave, personal problems, after meeting a read the log. sorry. Back later 08:21
iarlyy ***I read 08:21
adamw alright, cya iarlyy, hope it's nothing bad 08:21
adamw anyone have anything to add on severity? 08:22
poelcat adamw: way to make it happen! 08:22
adamw alright, then - on to open floor 08:23
arxs yes, nouveau and hibernate/standby offent not working, is this a information who should add to the common bugs wiki page? 08:23
adamw arxs: it's not specific enough; we need a definite indication of exactly what the scenario is, ideally 08:24
adamw what bug #(s) are you thinking of? 08:24
arxs yust give me a second :) 08:25
adamw alright :) 08:25
* adamw whistles 08:26
poelcat one thing from me... 08:26
adamw yep? 08:27
poelcat i'd like to see if some other folks would be willing to run the meetings going forward 08:27
arxs for example bug 459323 (i know, the bug is old and reported against f10) 08:27
buggbot Bug high, medium, ---, bskeggs, ASSIGNED, nvidia video card: X does not resume after suspend 08:27
* poelcat will wait until we're done disucssing the bug 08:27
adamw arxs: hmm, i see, so on quite a lot of hardware... 08:28
adamw that probably is worth documenting. it'd be nice to have more details and/or a workaround though :| 08:28
adamw arxs: please do add an entry to the common bugs page for it yeah, thanks for bringing it up...i hadn't seen that report 08:29
arxs i have the same problem with my Nvidia cards, the nv dirver works, but the nouveau not 08:29
arxs adamw: ok, should i also changed the bug to report against rawhide? 08:29
adamw that's a tricky one, i always hate this situation - bugzilla just doesn't handle it right :\ 08:30
adamw probably, it'd likely get more attention that way. note in a comment that it does affect 10 as well, still, though. 08:30
adamw i'll try and find Ben and talk to him about the problem too, see if he can explain anything. 08:30
arxs and also f9, since the bug was change in past from f9 to f10 08:30
adamw yeah, though i doubt any fixes could be easily backported that far. but yep, worth noting 08:31
adamw thanks a lot - let me know if you have any questions about adding stuff to the page 08:31
arxs ok, thanks for your hints 08:32
arxs thats all from me, back to poelcat ? 08:32
adamw yeah 08:32
poelcat i need to focus my time on some other projects 08:32
adamw poelcat: tk009 has been helping out with running them lately, which is great 08:32
poelcat tk009 has done a fantastic job helping to lighten the load by creating the agenda and doing the recap 08:32
poelcat but I still need a break :) 08:32
poelcat i still want to be involved with triage, but more in a background role and probably not be at all the meetings 08:33
poelcat i'll still handle the "housekeeping" tasks for F11 and F12 and beyond that we'll see 08:33
adamw well thanks for all you've done 08:33
poelcat you're welcome :) 08:33
adamw so, for now we have me and tk009 in the meeting management committee =) anyone else like to join? 08:34
i-amin hmmm 08:34
arxs maybe me, i have some spare time, but i'm not a native english speaker at all 08:34
adamw that's OK 08:35
adamw well, we'll just take it as it goes from now on, i think we should have people enough to cover things 08:35
SMParrish I know we have some housekeeping coming up to rebase rawhide to F11 and F9 open to F10 correct 08:35
adamw SMParrish: yep, poelcat is in charge of that 08:35
i-amin sorry for interupting 08:36
adamw np 08:36
i-amin may i know what this room is all about?? 08:36
SMParrish Ok. one thing I am going to do is go through all open F9 KDE issues and if I find it is an issue still in Rawhide I'm going to manually rebase them to F11, that way they stay at the top of our list. Might want to suggest other triagers do the same 08:37
thomasj i-amin, /topic ;) 08:37
adamw SMParrish: that's a good idea - everyone take note :) 08:37
i-amin owh 08:37
i-amin okk 08:37
adamw SMParrish: you could send a mail to the list suggesting it also 08:37
SMParrish I'll do that. 08:38
arxs i have many open bugs with NM for F9 who are all waiting for NEEDINFO for more then 60 days, should i closed it manuell or leave it and let the EOL tasks do the work? 08:39
adamw poelcat? 08:39
SMParrish arxs: I always close this as INSUFFICIENT_DATA and tell the reporter to reopen when they have the requested info 08:40
poelcat hm 08:40
poelcat probably nicer to give the "personal touch" of closing them yourself 08:41
arxs SMParrish: yeah, thanks for the info, thats the same that i do on f10 bugs. But if the F9 bugs gets closed by EOL it's clearer for the reporter the the issuse can't be reopen 08:41
arxs poelcat: ok, thats make round about 20 bugs less for EOL tagging :) 08:41
adamw well, you can close them with a message saying to only re-open if they can reproduce on a _later release_ 08:41
poelcat adamw: yes, great point! 08:42
SMParrish adamw: good point 08:42
adamw the pre-written texts don't have to be strictly adhered to, you could just add a little to it 08:42
arxs adamw: thanks for the hint 08:42
adamw alright...anything else occur to anyone? 08:43
arxs One general question, NM has many bugs in ASSIGN stare who are waiting on NEEDINFO for a long time, is that a task of Bugzappers or the Developer to track them? 08:44
arxs s/stare/state 08:44
adamw we agreed that it was good for the zappers to do it but not compulsory 08:44
arxs ok, i talk to dcbw i've i should help him with it 08:45
adamw so if you have time it would be appreciated for you to do what you can to get feedback 08:45
arxs maybe one more question :) NM bugs are sometime kernel releated issues, or HAL, oder udev and so on. Sometime i not sure if i could change the component. Therefore, is it a good idea to CC the maintainer of the packages for example? 08:47
adamw yes, definitely - if you think it involves another component as well but changing the component wouldn't be appropriate, that's absolutely the right thing to do 08:47
arxs I'm a little afraid about it, because i won't spam there with bz mails :) 08:49
arxs but ok, i will try this in feature, hope that brings the number of open bugs down :) 08:49
adamw it's fine, really, don't worry about doing it :) 08:50
arxs any hint who are the best person for kernel related things to CC? 08:50
adamw for kernel it's a bit tricky; different people deal with different areas of the kernel 08:51
adamw i believe there's an alias to which kernel bugs are usually assigned, i think if you cc that the mail should go to everyone appropriate 08:51
arxs it's mostly wlan stuff 08:51
adamw can anyone confirm? poelcat? 08:51
adamw wlan stuff is usually John Linville 08:51
adamw linville@redhat 08:51
arxs i have seen that the intellinuxwireless BZ page is not in the "upstream" bugs list 08:53
adamw yeah, it doesn't have everything 08:53
arxs should i open a bug against bugzilla as RFC ? 08:53
adamw i think you can file a feature request in bz itself to have that added 08:53
poelcat i could be wrong, but i think kernel puts most things to a list 08:53
poelcat actually there are a couple of pages about triaging kernel stuff 08:54
poelcat KernelBugTriage 08:54
adamw yeah, that says linville for wireless stuff 08:55
poelcat should probably be in triage category 08:55
adamw it's rather old and of uncertain provenance though :) 08:55
adamw yeah it should be merged into some of our existing pages i think 08:55
poelcat check with the kernel team, i believe they did most of those pages 08:56
arxs poelcat: thanks for the link 08:56
adamw and yeah, always ask if you're unsure 08:57
adamw kernel team has a channel - #fedora-kernel 08:57
poelcat sort of related, but a real good one KernelCommonProblems 08:57
adamw so you can pop in there and ask if you need their input on something but you're not sure who to cc 08:57
adamw well, i think it's about wrap-up time 08:58
adamw thanks for coming everyone 08:59
arxs thanks for all your hints 08:59
adamw triage day in -bugzappers now! 09:00

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