From Fedora Project Wiki

Docs team members local to the southeast United States will converge on the Southeast Linuxfest to work on Docs initiatives.


  • Date: 14 June 2009
  • Time: 9am til
  • Location: Clemson University - Hendrix Center - Board Room




  • SELF is offering shuttle service for speakers and will carry others as space permits from ATL and GSP and possibly CLT.
  • Lodging is at Comfort Inn a few rooms were held back by SELF and can be obtained at the 70/night conference rate by mentioning the Southeast Linuxfest
  • Food is TBD

Remote Participation

We plan on having remote participation, particularly in the 'F12 and beyond' discussion.

  • Voice via Fedora Talk Service in conference room (extension) 2008
  • IRC Freenode ( in room #fad
  • Gobby will be used to collect meeting "minutes"

How all of this will work together

Remote users will listen in on the Talk conference room. Questions can be asked via IRC in which a response will given over Talk. Gobby will be used to take notes on what is being discussed and can be viewed in real-time.

End result

FAD - Documentation Meeting at Clemson

== Meeting attendees ==
Eric Christensen - Sparks
Ian Weller - ianweller
John McDonough - jjmcd
Paul Frields - stickster
Zach Oglesby - zoglesby
Clint Savage - herlo
David Nalley - ke4qqq
Lee Brewer - uclugLee

== TOPIC - What went wrong?  What went right? ==

=== What went wrong ===
* Changing Release Notes data 11111
	* Two days before F11 was released, the release notes beats on wiki were still changing
	* Audio change
	* Networking issue
	* Expect full-timers to include info
* Secret cabal-driven freezes that aren't communicated 1111111
	* (leading to people not knowing about freezes occurring and when RN data needed.)
	* this is also a comms problem on our part.
* Too many rogue documents. 1111
* Getting RPMs pushed - going through f13 takes as much time as building the rpm 11111
	* We need to be able to push packages ourselves (i.e. need instructions, guidelines, etc.)
	* Not enough packagers in Docs
	* Only f13 and stickster know how to push RNs -- need more co-maintainers
* Could use more clarity understanding on what is implied by freezes, trans, etc 11
* Need more interaction with L10n 11
* Bugs not being filled out in timely manner 111
	* Many RN bugs arrive at the last minute that were known early on -indeed (SEE ABOVE)
* Need to centralize where bugs are filed (too many choices -- BZ, Trac instances...) 11111
	* BZ even has too many subchoices (components, etc.)
* Poor notations on where/how bugs/issues should be filed 1
* Wiki search SUCKS BIG TIME!! 111
* No good documentation on moving things from wiki to DocBook/Publican stores 11
* Could use more consistency in wiki markup 1111
* Need better documentation on what we want to use from DocBook markup 111
* No good process for dealing with orphan documents 11
* RN documents are not all in one place (about-fedora, readme's, etc.) 11
* Lack of understanding of release schedule process 11
* Publican and Fedora/GNOME lang codes not consistent 1
	* Not at all clear how login lang selected is used
* Translators having too much work. 1
* Release notes are ill-defined 11111
	* Too long for normal users to read
	* Beats have inconsistent levels of content
	* Need some separation
* We don't know anything about visit statistics for docs.fp.o 111
* We need a more rigorous freeze on wiki release note beats 11
  * Notes to f-docs-l, f-trans-l f-dev-l several times before each milestone
* BZ URL ulink default in Publican is unhelpful at best 11111
* Not clear if remaining (obsolete? unmaintained?) docs need conversion to Publican (strikes me as part of undefined orphan process) 1111
* docs.fp.o site sucks (Mo knows) 11111
	* Need solution for people to install a doc just for their lang, in their format
	* No CMS, no easy publishing, high barrier to participation
	* No real indexing...

=== What went right ===
* Many more docs/guides available than ever before!! (we rocked!)
* The wiki didn't asplode, but should have. (yay!)
* Everything seemed a lot more organized this release
* + Packaging is easier than it sounds
* + The install guide is awesome
* ++ Some folks really rolled up their sleeves and helped - zoglesby, laubersm, rudi
* much better collaboration this release cycle
* felt far less rushed than F10
* stickster and quaid got out of the way and Sparks got run over
* Brisbane folks represented, yo
* Red Hat relicensed guide material in a way where we can generate community presence around them

TOPIC - F12 and Beyond

Voted for these goals in order of decreasing priority:

* Better communication and interaction with other teams and program manager 1111111
	* Docs Leader should attend/audit/log/read other project meetings
		* L10n
		* Design
		* Websites
	* Appoint liasions to other sub-projects rather than overloading DPL with meetings
	* Release schedule needs to include items for announcements to other teams
	* Docs Project sit down (virtually) with poelcat and grok the schedule and release process
* docs.fp.o site sucks (Mo knows) 11111
	* Zikula
		* Zikula IS *THE* SOLUTION.
			* Track record
			* Participation by their upstream in Fedora == BIG +
		* Package all the pieces.
		* Train the people
		* Migrate all the EOL guides/docs into it.
		* Tagging/categorization of documents by Lang, Release, Format (, subject matter?)
	* Eight modules remaining to be packaged (no review BZs yet)
		* Pervasive bundling of libraries
		* Need to package some PHP libraries to make this happen
		* SHA-256 library
	* Puppetization of configs has started, but is incomplete
	* Infrastructure is blocking on modules/packaging
	* Zikula will help with infrastructure testing/tuning
* Need guide for wiki and DocBook markup 11111
	* Clean up Help:Editing
	* Move many Docs wiki pages to Archive: and start over!
	* Create a getting "started guide" that tells you the what and how and provide links to short howtos
	* Two docs:
		* Quick Start Guide on the wiki
		* Documentation Guide in formal repo
* Release Notes Issues
	* We need a more rigorous freeze on wiki release note beats 11111
	* RN documents are not all in one place (about-fedora, readme's, etc.) 1111
	* Two documents...  one for "normal users" and one for "advanced users".
		* Normal users = front-end features -- Created by Mktg & Docs
			* Links to the RN section (Advanced users) for those that want to know more.
		* Advanced users = back-end features + front-end features -- Created by Docs
	* Schedule
		* Marketing completion of talking points/tour
			* Tour should provide a link to upgrade page
		* Docs editing content
		* Has to be ported to the appropriate container (Zikula, website..., tupperware(TM), ziplock(R) bag?)
		* Screen shots have to be done
		* Translated
* We don't know anything about visit statistics for docs.fp.o 1111
* Release notes are ill-defined 1111
* One target for bugs, consistent pointers across Publican, wiki, docs website, etc. 1111
* Need to understand release schedule and what is implied by freezes, trans, etc 1111
	* Note each line item/milestone on the wiki and explain what are the action items to complete it
* Getting RPMs pushed - going through f13 takes as much time as building the rpm 111
* Need to have process and deal with old/orphaned/rogue wiki documents 111
	* (
* Improve understanding and communication with L10n 111
* No good documentation on moving things from wiki to DocBook/Publican stores 11

TOPIC - A non-translator's introduction to the POT/PO model
* Nearly every programming language has a gettext library
* (opened up readme.pot in Gobby)
* <![CDATA[blah]]> will make the string hidden from gettext in XML
* msgid and msgstr
* some tags are left in the msgid (such as <filename/>)
* translated, untranslated, and fuzzy
	* it uses an algorithm to decide on whether a new string is fuzzy or brand new

TOPIC - Packaging instruction
# yum install fedora-packager

Zikula modules
Version 3.0.3 - source tagged in SVN here:
This is already being worked on by Lukas

Version 1.0.0 - download here:
the source is probably in SVN somewhere, but not sure where.

crpTag - Everyone
*** DONE! ***
I'd take the head:, but just in
case it is non functional perhaps we could package 0.1.3 too?

MediaAttach - BZ
SVN Head:

mediashare - Paul
SVN Head:
INCLUDES: phpPicasa -

menutree - Lee-nener nener
Version 2.0.1:

MultiHook - BZ
SVN Head:

scribite - BZ
Version 3.1:

Custom Modules (no public source (yet))

Custom Theme (no public source)