I18N/Meetings/2009-02-03

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Fedora I18n meeting 2009-02-03

Agenda

Log

juhp so welcome to today's fedora-i18n meeting Feb 03 15:05
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juhp who is here for the meeting? Feb 03 15:05
paragan hi Feb 03 15:05
pravins hi Feb 03 15:05
phuang_ hi Feb 03 15:05
sflanigan G'day all. Feb 03 15:05
jni_ juhp, hi Feb 03 15:05
tagoh3 hi Feb 03 15:05
Kaio gday Feb 03 15:05
juhp okay hi all Feb 03 15:06
juhp the agenda is on the above page Feb 03 15:06
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juhp # Features/IBus Feb 03 15:07
juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/IBus Feb 03 15:07
dychen_ hi Feb 03 15:07
juhp so the current ibus release is in f11 alpha Feb 03 15:08
juhp phuang_: and maybe we will have some initial new ibus packages in rawhide for testing before too long? Feb 03 15:08
warren juhp: you mentioned that hangul is in the plans, are there similar missing functionality in other languages in the plans? Feb 03 15:08
juhp warren: anthy Feb 03 15:09
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warren juhp: where is this missing functionality written down? Feb 03 15:09
juhp I think some improvements are planned for pinyin Feb 03 15:09
pravins juhp: i saw rawcode also missing in ibus Feb 03 15:09
Kaio imho we need user preferences screen for engines Feb 03 15:09
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juhp warren: hmm bugzilla would be good - we should probably add some of the key items for f11 on the feature page too Feb 03 15:10
juhp some may already be in bugzilla or upstream I think Feb 03 15:10
tagoh3 all of engines more or less has any tasks to be improved Feb 03 15:10
tagoh3 I suppose Feb 03 15:10
juhp right Feb 03 15:10
Kaio phuang and I were just discussed about that this morning, I am asking if I could assist. Feb 03 15:11
juhp so quite a lot of work to do there and we are planning to put some more effort into that Feb 03 15:11
juhp Kaio: ok - which part do you have in mind? Feb 03 15:11
Kaio a general user preference framework in ibus Feb 03 15:12
Kaio which reuse current great imple of gconf connector codes Feb 03 15:12
phuang_ some API for helping IME engine to develop setup UI. Feb 03 15:12
juhp okay Feb 03 15:12
Kaio yeah Feb 03 15:12
juhp sounds good then that is an important component Feb 03 15:13
phuang_ Like generate UI from XML or .. Feb 03 15:13
juhp I guess Feb 03 15:13
Kaio I just got cvs access of ibus-table (thx jens), after I have applied wildcard patch to cvs, I will start dev that. Feb 03 15:13
juhp ok Feb 03 15:14
Kaio cj5 of ibus should be quite usable imho now Feb 03 15:15
juhp we have one month until f11 feature freeze Feb 03 15:15
Kaio thinking to incl cj3 also: most cj users still staying with cj3. Feb 03 15:16
juhp I am going to do some testing of the C code this week and see what the current status is Feb 03 15:16
dychen_ phuang_: Isn't glade3 have that kind of thing? Feb 03 15:16
phuang_ dychen_, It is not same with glade Feb 03 15:16
juhp Kaio: ok - we should separate the tables from the ime anyway Feb 03 15:16
phuang_ the xml for glade describes the UI. Feb 03 15:17
juhp phuang_: dynamic GUI sounds quite involved though? Feb 03 15:17
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phuang_ XML in ibus will only describe configurable items for engine Feb 03 15:17
juhp ok Feb 03 15:17
phuang_ ibus will generate the UI and to show those items Feb 03 15:18
juhp and then generate config GUI for that? Feb 03 15:18
juhp ok Feb 03 15:18
phuang_ yeah Feb 03 15:18
juhp that sounds doable I guess Feb 03 15:18
tagoh3 how about layout? Feb 03 15:18
phuang_ Could separate some items to some groups, and show them in different page or something Feb 03 15:19
warren Kaio: yes, user preferences for engines... Feb 03 15:20
phuang_ like compiz's configure ui Feb 03 15:20
tagoh3 GUI part sometimes needs to be adjusted by the hand. not sure how much it's capable to provide better UI Feb 03 15:20
juhp maybe can include some markup hints in the xml? Feb 03 15:21
Kaio I will refer scim. :) Feb 03 15:21
phuang_ need design it carefully Feb 03 15:21
tagoh3 phuang_: I'm afraid compiz's isn't better IMHO Feb 03 15:21
dychen_ Um, do we have time to implement this before F11 beta freeze? Feb 03 15:22
phuang_ dychen_, no Feb 03 15:22
phuang_ dychen_, I think Feb 03 15:22
juhp so it may be an update post-GA even Feb 03 15:23
juhp okay I think we can move on unless there are some other points on ibus work? Feb 03 15:23
dychen_ phuang_: Currently where does ibus stores setting for individual IMEs? Feb 03 15:24
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phuang_ engines use ibus's API to save and load. ibus uses gconf as backend Feb 03 15:25
juhp # Yum conditional packages Feb 03 15:26
dychen_ Thanks, phuang. :-) Feb 03 15:27
juhp I had hoped to have a bit more to report on this when I left it on the agenda Feb 03 15:27
juhp I am going to testing notting's script, hack on it a bit and then submit it to yum-utils for review, comments and hopeful inclusion Feb 03 15:27
juhp https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-January/msg00882.html Feb 03 15:28
juhp unfortunately I have been busy with other things like the next topic... Feb 03 15:29
juhp ok if no comments then let's go there Feb 03 15:30
juhp # Fonts repackaging Feb 03 15:31
juhp how are people doing on this Feb 03 15:31
pravins smc-fonts is done, i will do samyak-fonts soon Feb 03 15:31
Kaio I have finished liberation-fonts, cjkuni-fonts, and baekmuk-ttf-fonts Feb 03 15:31
tagoh3 finished to work on sazanami-fonts. still discussing about the naming for VLGothic-fonts Feb 03 15:31
juhp aha Feb 03 15:31
Kaio liberation-fonts need to change meta-package to -compat, as per discussion Feb 03 15:32
juhp I spent some of Friday and yesterday updating thaifonts-scalable to thai-scalable-fonts with subpackaging - quite a bit of work but looks good now Feb 03 15:32
rahulb I am currently working on culmus font Feb 03 15:32
juhp okay Feb 03 15:32
juhp rahulb: how about lohit? :) Feb 03 15:33
rahulb culmus has 10 different families with 4 faces each Feb 03 15:33
juhp thaifonts has 9 families... Feb 03 15:33
rahulb lohit I will do with next release, with some bugfixes Feb 03 15:33
juhp ok Feb 03 15:34
juhp rahulb: this month, right? Feb 03 15:34
rahulb yep Feb 03 15:34
juhp cool Feb 03 15:35
rahulb I am expecting two major releases for lohit this month Feb 03 15:35
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juhp ok :) Feb 03 15:35
juhp https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=477044&hide_resolved=1 Feb 03 15:35
juhp is the tracking bug for fonts updates Feb 03 15:36
juhp unfortuntately there are still 110 open in the distro Feb 03 15:36
juhp it is probably unlikely that all will be done in time for f11 but but all default installed fonts should (really must) be done I would say by beta hopefully Feb 03 15:37
juhp I will go through them and label the summaries and make the important ones block F11Target say Feb 03 15:37
juhp tagoh3: so what is the story on renaming VLGothic now? Feb 03 15:38
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juhp # i18n-team watchcommits mails Feb 03 15:39
tagoh3 juhp: I'm bringing up if gothic should be in the package name. Feb 03 15:39
tagoh3 as the family name Feb 03 15:40
juhp tagoh3: aha Feb 03 15:40
juhp with a hyphen? Feb 03 15:40
tagoh3 right Feb 03 15:40
juhp VL-gothic? Feb 03 15:40
juhp or vl-gothic maybe? Feb 03 15:40
juhp vl-gothic-fonts hmm Feb 03 15:40
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tagoh3 no, actually vlgothic-fonts vs vlgothic-gothic-fonts or -pgothic-fonts. Feb 03 15:40
juhp looks ok Feb 03 15:40
juhp ah yuck Feb 03 15:41
juhp hmm Feb 03 15:41
juhp actually they are both gothic Feb 03 15:41
juhp tagoh3: do you think VL will make any other fonts, one day? Feb 03 15:41
tagoh3 how do we deal with the proportional fonts? Feb 03 15:42
tagoh3 juhp: dunno. Feb 03 15:42
tagoh3 juhp: they will do if they think it's necessary Feb 03 15:42
juhp tagoh3: is the discussion in bugzilla? Feb 03 15:43
tagoh3 yeah Feb 03 15:44
juhp I can try to follow it Feb 03 15:44
juhp okay Feb 03 15:44
juhp tagoh3: hm his comment 10 looks sane to me Feb 03 15:45
juhp https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=477479#c10 Feb 03 15:45
buggbot Bug 477479: medium, medium, ---, tagoh@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Please convert to new font packaging guidelines Feb 03 15:45
juhp anyway we better move on Feb 03 15:45
juhp back to # i18n-team watchcommits mails Feb 03 15:46
juhp was about to say I need to get advice on this from fedora infrastructure and other sigs Feb 03 15:46
juhp to avoid or deal with the commit mails bouncing off fedora-i18n-bugs Feb 03 15:47
juhp wonder if there is interest to follow commits for i18n packages Feb 03 15:47
*juhp really wishes wiki would make up their mind about using | or not in link markup Feb 03 15:49
sflanigan as in, commits to the cvs repository which contains spec files? Feb 03 15:49
juhp sflanigan: yes packaging commits Feb 03 15:49
juhp those bounce off the list currently Feb 03 15:49
sflanigan I've only got one package, but I wouldn't mind tracking commits to it. But I'd have to do some very heavy filtering, so I might just do without... Feb 03 15:50
juhp yeah Feb 03 15:50
sflanigan I think most people would only want to see a small number of packages' commits Feb 03 15:50
juhp well it would be a lot traffic than all fedora commits Feb 03 15:50
juhp sflanigan: true Feb 03 15:51
sflanigan lot less traffic, you mean? True. Feb 03 15:51
juhp one can request commit mail in pkg db Feb 03 15:51
juhp sflanigan: yes Feb 03 15:51
juhp luckily I am not subscribed any more Feb 03 15:52
juhp is it still fedora-extras-commits or was it renamed? Feb 03 15:53
juhp anyway... Feb 03 15:53
sflanigan I see that i18n-team is currently watching eclipse-nls. And you want to change this address to fedora-i18n-commits, or something like that? Feb 03 15:53
juhp right that is the issue/question Feb 03 15:53
sflanigan "watching" as in "watchcommits" I mean Feb 03 15:53
juhp and it is like that for all i18n packages Feb 03 15:53
tagoh3 do we really want to watch anyway? Feb 03 15:53
sflanigan Well, given that pkg db can do watchcommits for individual users, would anyone want to watchcommits across all i18n? Feb 03 15:54
juhp well it might be less tedious subscribing to every package and new ones Feb 03 15:54
juhp but yeah I dunno Feb 03 15:54
sflanigan Well, if there's at least one person, it might be worthwhile. If you are that person, then there you go! Feb 03 15:55
juhp it wouldn't hurt (for me say) but probably too time-consuming Feb 03 15:55
juhp mmm, let me ponder a little more :) Feb 03 15:55
tagoh3 sflanigan: he/she should just request on pkgdb to watch commits then Feb 03 15:55
juhp still curious what others do Feb 03 15:56
juhp tagoh3: they need approval though Feb 03 15:56
juhp and it is a bit tedious to track I guess Feb 03 15:56
sflanigan I would think that if you don't have time to click watchcommits against a particular pkg, you probably won't have time to read the commits either. Parallel scaling! Feb 03 15:56
juhp but yeah Feb 03 15:56
juhp sflanigan: probably also true :) Feb 03 15:57
tagoh3 juhp: no effects to the package itself by just watching commits. otherwise pick them up from fedora-extras-commits with the certain filters. Feb 03 15:57
juhp tagoh3: (I think anyway) Feb 03 15:57
juhp yeah yeah Feb 03 15:57
juhp anyway need to do something to end the bouncing Feb 03 15:57
sflanigan I don't think anyone will have a strong opinion unless you force them to subscribe to the list in question. Feb 03 15:58
juhp I will ask around a bit and try and come up with something Feb 03 15:58
sflanigan  ;-) Feb 03 15:58
juhp heh lol Feb 03 15:58
juhp sflanigan: I mean ask what other fedora projects/sigs do about it Feb 03 15:58
juhp # useradd bug -- Pravin Satpute Feb 03 15:59
juhp https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=311367&group_id=30580&atid=411478 Feb 03 15:59
juhp pravins: ? Feb 03 15:59
pravins juhp: yeah Feb 03 15:59
pravins i was interested discussing https://alioth.debian.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=311367&group_id=30580&atid=411478 Feb 03 15:59
juhp utf8 usernames - nice ;o) Feb 03 15:59
juhp so we will need IM on gdm Feb 03 16:00
tagoh3 heh Feb 03 16:00
juhp well guess it is inevitable eventually :) Feb 03 16:00
juhp hmm Feb 03 16:01
tagoh3 it's not easy task to be done in only account management actually though Feb 03 16:01
juhp right Feb 03 16:01
juhp pravins: I think that is quite a big project - touching a lot of code Feb 03 16:01
pravins yeah, i think it might affect some others things also Feb 03 16:01
juhp definitely Feb 03 16:02
juhp some might say the current status quo is a feature :) Feb 03 16:02
juhp bit like ascii package names Feb 03 16:02
juhp I don't think unix has ever supported non-ascii usernames and groups, etc? Feb 03 16:03
juhp I wonder programs too Feb 03 16:03
juhp pravins: anyway curious what they will say... Feb 03 16:04
pravins juhp: yeah, i will discuss same thing with upstream Feb 03 16:04
pravins lets see what they says Feb 03 16:04
juhp pravins: any particular motivation for it? Feb 03 16:04
juhp okay Feb 03 16:04
juhp (other than the obvious?) Feb 03 16:04
pravins yeah, some linguist ask me he is not able to create username in his own language Feb 03 16:04
pravins s/some/one Feb 03 16:05
juhp aha Feb 03 16:05
juhp like on windows? Feb 03 16:05
pravins umm, i havent see that on windows though Feb 03 16:06
tagoh3 juhp: this shouldn't be an issue on unix like os only since accounts usually relates to email address. Feb 03 16:06
Kaio windows used to allow non a-zA-Z0-9 as samba passwords Feb 03 16:06
Kaio seems not now Feb 03 16:06
pravins i gone through useradd code and in username valication it is not allowing other than ascii characters Feb 03 16:07
juhp pravins: but he can set with "chfn -f full-name username" or the users config tool Feb 03 16:07
pravins s/valication/validation Feb 03 16:07
sflanigan Wouldn't it be a bit hard to login using a non-ASCII username from, say, an internet cafes...? Feb 03 16:08
sflanigan an internet cafe. D'oh Feb 03 16:08
juhp pravins: you're after userid or fullname? Feb 03 16:08
pravins userid Feb 03 16:08
rahulb It is more a usability issue than validation check Feb 03 16:09
juhp pravins: I think fullname is sufficient? Feb 03 16:09
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juhp it will display in gdm and email etc Feb 03 16:09
rahulb even on consol or a less privilegged run level, it would be difficult to use non-ascii userid right now Feb 03 16:10
pravins aha Feb 03 16:10
juhp right Feb 03 16:10
juhp adduser -c ? Feb 03 16:10
juhp dunno Feb 03 16:10
juhp ok thanks Feb 03 16:11
pravins hmm Feb 03 16:11
pravins yeah, thanks Feb 03 16:11
juhp those are all the topics on the agenda Feb 03 16:11
juhp we can open for any other discussion Feb 03 16:11
tagoh3 not for discussion but just fyi Feb 03 16:12
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tagoh3 now trying to prepare new anthy with utf-8 dictionary Feb 03 16:12
juhp aha Feb 03 16:12
tagoh3 still going to test it locally. hope will be available on rawhide shortly Feb 03 16:13
juhp cool Feb 03 16:13
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juhp tagoh3: is upstream working for that too? Feb 03 16:13
tagoh3 yes, the latest version supports that Feb 03 16:13
juhp f11alpha should be out soon I guess Feb 03 16:13
juhp aha Feb 03 16:13
Kaio I am still looking for a hinting instruction list to improve liberation-fonts. If anyone knows that please let me know. Feb 03 16:14
juhp the next fedora-i18n meeting should be in two weeks time Feb 03 16:14
juhp Kaio: is it still true that just shipping .ttf would solve most of the problems with preseriving hinting or is that a different thing? Feb 03 16:15
juhp or you want to create new hinting? Feb 03 16:15
Kaio what I confirmed are, everything I have ever compared are same between shipped .ttf and latest .sfd Feb 03 16:16
sflanigan Have you established exactly what the complaints are about? eg manual hinting vs auto-hinting, something like that? Feb 03 16:16
juhp (quite a long meeting today so we should probably close shortly if there is nothing else to discuss) Feb 03 16:16
Kaio but there are still bug reports claiming that some hintings are brokwn Feb 03 16:17
Kaio lets discuss off this meeting :) Feb 03 16:17
juhp Kaio: coming from fontforge conversion? Feb 03 16:17
juhp okay Feb 03 16:17
Kaio I believed so Feb 03 16:17
juhp hmm Feb 03 16:17
Kaio but I dont deny if I missed sth in conversion Feb 03 16:18
juhp probably fedora-fonts-list is the best place to discuss this Feb 03 16:18
Kaio I asked dejavu people and I have no info about how they converted from ttf Feb 03 16:18
Kaio ok Feb 03 16:18
juhp good idea Feb 03 16:19
juhp okay let's close the meeting Feb 03 16:19
juhp thanks everyone for joining in Feb 03 16:19
juhp ## meeting closed Feb 03 16:19
tagoh3 thanks all Feb 03 16:19

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