From Fedora Project Wiki
Meeting Summary
- Review of last weeks items
- some installer test discussion
- changes in anaconda
- changes in testing plan for Beta
- discussion of forming a Release Test Team
Action Items
- New
- ?
- Existing
- wooods - talk to quaid about summer of code test reporting project
- atodorov - status check-in on a dogtail test that uses anaconda .glade files (wasn't formal ... but may be good for a check-in next week)
- Completed
- wwoods - begin stubbing out interoperability (dual-boot) test cases in F9 Install Test Plan
- jlaska - update TreeTestingTemplate to line up with Test Plan
- poelstra - add F9Install test plan link to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/HowToTest
IRC Log
| wwoods | | jlaska: pong. meeting time! | <a href="#t10:01:52" class="time">10:01</a> |
|---|---|---|
| jlaska | | wwoods: yay, what's the plan today? | <a href="#t10:02:16" class="time">10:02</a> |
| --- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA meeting | Followup from previous meetings | <a href="#t10:02:52" class="time">10:02</a> | |
| wwoods | | first that | <a href="#t10:02:54" class="time">10:02</a> |
| wwoods | | then.. some installer test discussion | <a href="#t10:03:22" class="time">10:03</a> |
| wwoods | | 1) changes in anaconda | <a href="#t10:03:29" class="time">10:03</a> |
| wwoods | | 2) changes in testing plan for Beta | <a href="#t10:03:38" class="time">10:03</a> |
| wwoods | | 3) discussion of forming a Release Test Team | <a href="#t10:03:50" class="time">10:03</a> |
| wwoods | | well, a Fedora RTT | <a href="#t10:04:15" class="time">10:04</a> |
| wwoods | | jlaska: any notes from previous meetings that need discussion? | <a href="#t10:05:53" class="time">10:05</a> |
| * | wwoods checking his notes | <a href="#t10:05:56" class="time">10:05</a> | |
| jlaska | | wwoods: the last notes I have are from our last formal meeting ... (<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20080206">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20080206</a>) | <a href="#t10:07:04" class="time">10:07</a> |
| wwoods | | woo, that was a while ago | <a href="#t10:07:36" class="time">10:07</a> |
| wwoods | | yeah I don't really have anything to report back on | <a href="#t10:08:11" class="time">10:08</a> |
| wwoods | | oh, are you logging this? | <a href="#t10:08:25" class="time">10:08</a> |
| jlaska | | I'll log it | <a href="#t10:09:24" class="time">10:09</a> |
| * | jlaska waits for wiki ... | <a href="#t10:10:26" class="time">10:10</a> | |
| wwoods | | so the only thing from last week that's worth discussing is | <a href="#t10:11:05" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | | I haven't had time to work on snake->kvm installs | <a href="#t10:11:15" class="time">10:11</a> |
| * | f13 is here | <a href="#t10:11:16" class="time">10:11</a> | |
| wwoods | | but! rawhide is installable | <a href="#t10:11:21" class="time">10:11</a> |
| f13 | | indeed | <a href="#t10:11:26" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | | shouldn't blow up with mkinitrd | <a href="#t10:11:32" class="time">10:11</a> |
| f13 | | some things are still horkey though | <a href="#t10:11:33" class="time">10:11</a> |
| jlaska | | "installable" [1] | <a href="#t10:11:33" class="time">10:11</a> |
| jlaska | | :) | <a href="#t10:11:35" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | | *and* has stage2=XXX support | <a href="#t10:11:37" class="time">10:11</a> |
| f13 | | I would really like to have my ability to select text back. | <a href="#t10:11:51" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | | (which is interesting from a tester perspective and important for PreUpgrade) | <a href="#t10:11:54" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | | anyway | <a href="#t10:12:27" class="time">10:12</a> |
| --- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | Anaconda changes in F9Beta | <a href="#t10:12:39" class="time">10:12</a> | |
| wwoods | | more good news: rescueCD supports encrypted devices now | <a href="#t10:12:57" class="time">10:12</a> |
| wwoods | | here are the interesting changes: | <a href="#t10:13:42" class="time">10:13</a> |
| wwoods | | 1) no more boot.iso or diskboot.img | <a href="#t10:13:47" class="time">10:13</a> |
| wwoods | | they've been replaced with.. netinst.iso? I think that's the name | <a href="#t10:14:22" class="time">10:14</a> |
| wwoods | | which is, basically, the rescuecd (with a different name to give people a better idea what it's for) | <a href="#t10:14:46" class="time">10:14</a> |
| wwoods | | pxeboot images are still there, so SNAKE still works | <a href="#t10:15:13" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | | so the two recommended methods for installing rawhide are: | <a href="#t10:15:23" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | | - use SNAKE | <a href="#t10:15:27" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | | - use netinst.iso | <a href="#t10:15:32" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | | (I *think* I'm comfortable recommending that people use SNAKE.. jlaska?) | <a href="#t10:16:13" class="time">10:16</a> |
| jlaska | | worksforme :) | <a href="#t10:16:24" class="time">10:16</a> |
| jlaska | | it's by no means complete ... but it gets the job done | <a href="#t10:16:31" class="time">10:16</a> |
| jlaska | | some more needed changes on tap for 0.11 ... but 0.10 should be fine for folks | <a href="#t10:16:49" class="time">10:16</a> |
| <-- | rahul_b has quit ("Leaving(पुन्हा भेटू)") | <a href="#t10:16:52" class="time">10:16</a> | |
| wwoods | | esp. for the very simple case: "I already have Fedora on this machine and want to upgrade" | <a href="#t10:17:09" class="time">10:17</a> |
| wwoods | | there's also PreUpgrade for that, actually | <a href="#t10:17:26" class="time">10:17</a> |
| wwoods | | but it's not available yet, so.. | <a href="#t10:17:39" class="time">10:17</a> |
| wwoods | | but yeah, people will ask "huh whuh where'd boot.iso go" | <a href="#t10:18:13" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | | but booting boot.iso means you still have to download stage2 from the internets | <a href="#t10:18:26" class="time">10:18</a> |
| f13 | | on the plus side, the netinst.iso is useful for more than just today's tree | <a href="#t10:18:32" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | | also that! | <a href="#t10:18:42" class="time">10:18</a> |
| f13 | | so if you have netinst.iso from yesterday, and no images show up today, you can still use yesterday's to install today's tree | <a href="#t10:18:47" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | | netinst.iso really is the minimum you need to actually perform an install | <a href="#t10:18:52" class="time">10:18</a> |
| f13 | | it's a lot more useful than boot.iso | <a href="#t10:19:02" class="time">10:19</a> |
| wwoods | | definitely | <a href="#t10:19:07" class="time">10:19</a> |
| wwoods | | we really need to see about, y'know, retaining old boot images if buildinstall fails | <a href="#t10:19:41" class="time">10:19</a> |
| f13 | | herm. | <a href="#t10:20:10" class="time">10:20</a> |
| wwoods | | or think about something along those lines | <a href="#t10:20:18" class="time">10:20</a> |
| jlaska | | f13: do we have space to keep versioned trees? (e.g. development/20080303, development/20080304) .. | <a href="#t10:20:20" class="time">10:20</a> |
| dwmw2 | | wwoods: for that to be useful, they'd have to work | <a href="#t10:20:22" class="time">10:20</a> |
| f13 | | jlaska: I'd rather not keep versioned trees | <a href="#t10:20:33" class="time">10:20</a> |
| f13 | | jlaska: not on the mirrors. | <a href="#t10:20:37" class="time">10:20</a> |
| wwoods | | dwmw2: until we have a simple algorithm for detecting works/doesn't work | <a href="#t10:20:52" class="time">10:20</a> |
| f13 | | I think we can cook up something in our rsync calls to avoid removing images/ though | <a href="#t10:20:54" class="time">10:20</a> |
| wwoods | | we'll have to rely on present/not present | <a href="#t10:20:57" class="time">10:20</a> |
| jlaska | | f13: the pisser is the trees change out from under us ... and there's no retention of a usable tree | <a href="#t10:21:05" class="time">10:21</a> |
| dwmw2 | | I saw another complaint yesterday that there's no progress bar while downloading stage2 from the internets | <a href="#t10:21:05" class="time">10:21</a> |
| wwoods | | works > present > missing | <a href="#t10:21:06" class="time">10:21</a> |
| f13 | | jlaska: that's why we keep more than one internally where there is more space to be had | <a href="#t10:21:23" class="time">10:21</a> |
| wwoods | | dwmw2: answer: stop downloading stage2 from the internets, sucka | <a href="#t10:21:26" class="time">10:21</a> |
| wwoods | | heh | <a href="#t10:21:27" class="time">10:21</a> |
| dwmw2 | | wwoods: heh | <a href="#t10:21:32" class="time">10:21</a> |
| f13 | | jlaska: we currently may not even have enough space to host the Fedora 9 release on the master mirror. | <a href="#t10:21:36" class="time">10:21</a> |
| wwoods | | jlaska: we've got space for that internally | <a href="#t10:21:55" class="time">10:21</a> |
| dwmw2 | | wwoods: works > present > missing > present-but-KNOWN-not-to-work | <a href="#t10:21:57" class="time">10:21</a> |
| wwoods | | there's also daily trees in koji | <a href="#t10:22:03" class="time">10:22</a> |
| wwoods | | not gonna happen on the mirrors though | <a href="#t10:22:12" class="time">10:22</a> |
| dwmw2 | | don't we _know_ that today's stage1 won't work with tomorrows compose? | <a href="#t10:22:20" class="time">10:22</a> |
| wwoods | | dwmw2: right, which is why we've stopped keeping images that have only stage1 in 'em | <a href="#t10:22:39" class="time">10:22</a> |
| dwmw2 | | iso images. There's still netboot | <a href="#t10:22:57" class="time">10:22</a> |
| wwoods | | now we have the 'stage2=XXX' command in loader | <a href="#t10:23:04" class="time">10:23</a> |
| wwoods | | so if you've got yesterday's boot images somehow, you should also have yesterday's stage2 | <a href="#t10:23:17" class="time">10:23</a> |
| wwoods | | so now.. you can use yesterday's kernel/stage1/stage2 with today's tree | <a href="#t10:23:32" class="time">10:23</a> |
| dwmw2 | | ok, that helps. | <a href="#t10:23:32" class="time">10:23</a> |
| jeremy | | dwmw2: since we moved all the kernel modules to be in the initrd (as opposed to split between initrd and second stage), it's been _more_ likely that you can hop trees. but not guaranteed, especially in rawhide where we could change conventions of calling /usr/bin/anaconda | <a href="#t10:23:48" class="time">10:23</a> |
| jeremy | | dwmw2: but netinst.iso is one iso to rule them all, blah blah blah. having kernel + initrd + stage2 | <a href="#t10:24:14" class="time">10:24</a> |
| wwoods | | we could have a serial number in the stage1+stage2 metadata that increments only when incompatible changes are made | <a href="#t10:24:48" class="time">10:24</a> |
| dwmw2 | | hm, did the initrd grow a lot when we did that? | <a href="#t10:24:59" class="time">10:24</a> |
| wwoods | | right now we have a similar serial number, but it increments whenever the clock ticks | <a href="#t10:25:29" class="time">10:25</a> |
| wwoods | | heh | <a href="#t10:25:33" class="time">10:25</a> |
| wwoods | | so as soon as the clock ticks, a new stage2 will be incompatible with your stage1 | <a href="#t10:25:55" class="time">10:25</a> |
| jeremy | | dwmw2: a bit. but we did it a while ago | <a href="#t10:26:31" class="time">10:26</a> |
| wwoods | | anyway - not really necessary for most testing, and that's not a problem we'll solve off the tops of our heads | <a href="#t10:26:32" class="time">10:26</a> |
| wwoods | | we should make people know about the changes and the reasons for 'em (and the benefits) | <a href="#t10:26:53" class="time">10:26</a> |
| jeremy | | wwoods: well, given that it's rawhide only and it'd have to be a manual increment... we just try to avoid things that break it | <a href="#t10:26:54" class="time">10:26</a> |
| <-- | mether has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | <a href="#t10:27:47" class="time">10:27</a> | |
| wwoods | | err, make *sure* people know | <a href="#t10:27:51" class="time">10:27</a> |
| wwoods | | we don't need to force information directly into their brains | <a href="#t10:28:02" class="time">10:28</a> |
| wwoods | | jeremy: are you planning on doing a summary mail or anything or should I tackle that? | <a href="#t10:28:23" class="time">10:28</a> |
| jeremy | | wwoods: of what? the installer stuff? I've updated the release notes for the beta. can send something later | <a href="#t10:29:01" class="time">10:29</a> |
| wwoods | | 1) no more boot.iso / diskboot.img, 2) netinst.iso is cool and here's why, 3) stage2=XXX for other purposes | <a href="#t10:29:22" class="time">10:29</a> |
| wwoods | | the unanswered question so far is: how do you make a bootable USB device for installing | <a href="#t10:29:41" class="time">10:29</a> |
| wwoods | | you said there was something like livecd-to-iso in the works for netinst.iso? | <a href="#t10:29:58" class="time">10:29</a> |
| wwoods | | err livecd-to-usb | <a href="#t10:30:08" class="time">10:30</a> |
| jeremy | | need to make sure some stage2= cases work before we can get anything like that going | <a href="#t10:30:59" class="time">10:30</a> |
| wwoods | | true | <a href="#t10:31:08" class="time">10:31</a> |
| wwoods | | I'll be testing that most of today probably | <a href="#t10:31:17" class="time">10:31</a> |
| wwoods | | especially w.r.t. preupgrade | <a href="#t10:31:28" class="time">10:31</a> |
| wwoods | | jeremy: I'll cull something from the release notes, mostly for the rawhiders | <a href="#t10:31:50" class="time">10:31</a> |
| jeremy | | wwoods: *nod* my blog post should also give some good info | <a href="#t10:32:09" class="time">10:32</a> |
| wwoods | | need to write a good "how to install rawhide - the easy way" doc anyway | <a href="#t10:32:11" class="time">10:32</a> |
| * | jeremy has been trying to be active about blogging cool stuff / big changes | <a href="#t10:32:31" class="time">10:32</a> | |
| wwoods | | yeah! it's surprisingly helpful | <a href="#t10:32:46" class="time">10:32</a> |
| wwoods | | I should do that more | <a href="#t10:32:54" class="time">10:32</a> |
| wwoods | | okay next topic: | <a href="#t10:33:03" class="time">10:33</a> |
| --- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | Changes in testing for F9b | <a href="#t10:33:23" class="time">10:33</a> | |
| wwoods | | so we're going to try to use the new-style Test Plan for F9 Beta | <a href="#t10:33:34" class="time">10:33</a> |
| f13 | | woo! | <a href="#t10:33:39" class="time">10:33</a> |
| wwoods | | that's <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install</a> | <a href="#t10:33:57" class="time">10:33</a> |
| <-- | fab has quit ("Leaving") | <a href="#t10:34:17" class="time">10:34</a> | |
| wwoods | | it might need some extra stuff for new features | <a href="#t10:34:43" class="time">10:34</a> |
| wwoods | | notably encrypted rescue, stage2=, and maybe preupgrade | <a href="#t10:35:04" class="time">10:35</a> |
| jeremy | | and changes for things like boot.iso going away | <a href="#t10:35:07" class="time">10:35</a> |
| wwoods | | yeah, still waiting for it to load to see if there's cases that involve that | <a href="#t10:35:27" class="time">10:35</a> |
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| wwoods | | but, yes, cases may have to be modified to accomodate changes in the product.. but that's part of the joy of QA@!#^! | <a href="#t10:36:28" class="time">10:36</a> |
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| wwoods | | jlaska: where's the template page for filling in results? | <a href="#t10:37:16" class="time">10:37</a> |
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| jlaska | | wwoods: installation test plan results ... or other? | <a href="#t10:37:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| wwoods | | yeah that. | <a href="#t10:38:01" class="time">10:38</a> |
| jlaska | | QA/TestResults/TestSummaryTemplate | <a href="#t10:38:23" class="time">10:38</a> |
| jlaska | | any test case changes will need to be made there as well as in the test plan itself | <a href="#t10:38:38" class="time">10:38</a> |
| jlaska | | but I've been good with my wiki watch list | <a href="#t10:38:47" class="time">10:38</a> |
| wwoods | | sweet. OK, we'll instantiate a page from that template for F9Beta | <a href="#t10:39:28" class="time">10:39</a> |
| wwoods | | (after making the needed changes to the plan) | <a href="#t10:39:45" class="time">10:39</a> |
| f13 | | rock | <a href="#t10:40:09" class="time">10:40</a> |
| <-- | jwb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | <a href="#t10:40:47" class="time">10:40</a> | |
| wwoods | | that leads us nicely into the last topic | <a href="#t10:41:30" class="time">10:41</a> |
| --- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | Discussion: create a Fedora Release Test Team | <a href="#t10:41:41" class="time">10:41</a> | |
| wwoods | | we definitely want more people testing | <a href="#t10:42:10" class="time">10:42</a> |
| wwoods | | and more importantly to me: it's hard for me to get work done on tools and plans and stuff when I have to spend most of my time testing the product | <a href="#t10:42:37" class="time">10:42</a> |
| wwoods | | so! as with BugZappers, organizing a Release Team under QA would make life better for everyone | <a href="#t10:43:05" class="time">10:43</a> |
| wwoods | | so here's the questions: 1) what do we require from the team members, and 2) what do we provide them with? | <a href="#t10:43:28" class="time">10:43</a> |
| --> | jwb [n=jwboyer@68-115-98-121.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #fedora-meeting | <a href="#t10:43:34" class="time">10:43</a> | |
| wwoods | | this is targeted to installer testing, but it can expand beyond that later. kind of like the QA/TestPlans stuff | <a href="#t10:44:15" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | | so, obviously we want FRTT (heh) members to sign the CLA etc, so they can edit the wiki (and fill in their results) | <a href="#t10:44:52" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | | probably I'll want to create a RTT FAS group so we can give people edit access to non-wiki things | <a href="#t10:45:19" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | | like the rawhide dashboard page | <a href="#t10:45:23" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | | and someday the test tracker stuff, if we get it off the wiki | <a href="#t10:45:38" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | | Also I want to have a list of, y'know, Official Release Team Members somewhere | <a href="#t10:45:58" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | | good to give people recognition for all the work they do | <a href="#t10:46:07" class="time">10:46</a> |
| wwoods | | (also maybe this will free up time for me to work on the metrics/scorekeeping) | <a href="#t10:46:23" class="time">10:46</a> |
| wwoods | | are there other requirements, like "you have to attend X meetings per month" or "you have to contribute during alpha/beta testing" | <a href="#t10:47:03" class="time">10:47</a> |
| wwoods | | and are there other things we can offer testers (free stuff, access to private mirrors, ..?) | <a href="#t10:47:25" class="time">10:47</a> |
| wwoods | | I'll take that as a round of shrugs | <a href="#t10:49:30" class="time">10:49</a> |
| wwoods | | Give it some thought, if anything occurs to you let me know.. In the meantime I'll see about how you set up groups and stuff | <a href="#t10:50:23" class="time">10:50</a> |
| * | wwoods wants to make big shiny Rawhider badges | <a href="#t10:50:44" class="time">10:50</a> | |
| wwoods | | heh | <a href="#t10:50:44" class="time">10:50</a> |
| wwoods | | okay that's all from me. any other topics we'd like to discuss? | <a href="#t10:50:56" class="time">10:50</a> |
| --- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc | <a href="#t10:51:00" class="time">10:51</a> | |
| wwoods | | gah I forgot we're doing CD sets again | <a href="#t10:51:37" class="time">10:51</a> |
| wwoods | | gotta order a spindle or two | <a href="#t10:51:45" class="time">10:51</a> |
| wwoods | | okay then, meeting ending in 60 secs | <a href="#t10:53:27" class="time">10:53</a> |
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| jlaska | | tick tock tick tock | <a href="#t10:54:56" class="time">10:54</a> |
| jlaska | | ;) | <a href="#t10:54:59" class="time">10:54</a> |
| wwoods | | Thanks folks! | <a href="#t10:55:05" class="time">10:55</a> |
| f13 | | woo | <a href="#t10:55:12" class="time">10:55</a> |
| --- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel</a> for meeting schedule | <a href="#t10:55:27" class="time">10:55</a> | |
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