QA/Meetings/20090708

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Contents

Attendees

  • David Pravec (dpravec)
  • James Laska (jlaska)
  • Jesse Keating (f13)
  • Jóhann Guðmundsson (viking-ice)
  • Kamil Paral (kparal)
  • Will Woods (wwoods)
  • Richard June (rjune)

Regrets:

  • Adam Williamson (adamw)


Agenda

Proposed meeting agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  • [jlaska] - update QA/Goals wiki document

Egg on me ... no updates this past week.

Fit n Finish Display Configuration Test Day Recap

Announcement: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00741.html

I invited mclasen to join the meeting today to provide a brief recap of the test day. What worked well, what didn't, how could things be improved for next time? Mclasen updated the group that ...

* there was a bit of participation in the irc  channel throughout the day, but not too much though.
* mostly it was me and to some extent adam testing stuff and filing bugs

Viking_Ice suggested it should be mandatory to provide guidelines for contributors to file bug reports. Jlaska cautioned that adding that mandatory requirement might be a bit too harsh, but it's a great guideline to list for folks wanting a successful test day experience. Mclasen noted that it would be helpful to include a link to the wiki test case.

Recommendations for future events ...

* Need more advertising for fit'n'finish days
* Loosen the date restriction on the test day wiki name -- perhaps note in the SOP?
* Include test case link in any bug reports filed -- perhaps note in the SOP?

dpravec pointed out that google is releasing neatx (python based nx server) -- which might be interesting for remote desktop problem solving/testing... http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/07/releasing-neatx-open-source-nx-servier.html. dpravec would investigate and may develop a HOWTO wiki page describing it's use. .

AutoQA - update from wwoods

https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa

So there's the test plan: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan and there's 4 cases remaining to write (see https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&summary=~Create+test+case&milestone=israwhidebroken.com&order=priority)

The first two - Core package {existence,closure} - require the Critical Path package list/depsolving tool. Last week skvidal wrote a tool to depsolve out a list of packages/groups (see http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/resolve_out_deps.py).

Created 2 new groups in F12 comps.xml (critical-path-base and critical-path-gnome). Combining those two groups and @core should cover every use case listed in the Critical_Path_Packages_Proposal. Current expansion of the current Critical Path definitions are listed at http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/deplist.txt. It works out to 500 packages (%5 of the distro).

Mclasen asked if these changes would be visible to the installer. Wwoods and f13 noted that this group was not marked as visible:

| <uservisible>false</uservisible> 
| <default>false</default> 

Viking_ice noted for the record that we should create critical-path groups for other desktop environments. Wwoods indicated this would be possible, however the short-term goal of israwhidebroken.com is to focus on the use cases described in the proposal. f13 and Wwoods indicated that the responsibility for creating and testing other desktop environments would fall to the SIG owners of those desktop environments. Jlaska directed curious contributors to the page describing how to propose comps.xml changes (see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/CompsXml).

Jlaska updated the group on autotest packaging efforts and fedora-infrastructure engagement. Notes from discussion with f13 posted to the end of autoqa ticket#9.

Wwoods provided a plan for the upcoming week ...

  • finish writing tests, ask for review from f-t-l
  • send out an informational message about the critical path deplist to f-d-l
  • hopefully, I'll also have time to start trying to automate one of the simpler test cases in autotest

Debugging pages ... what's next?

Christopher Beland posted some data on the heaviest hitters when it comes to new bugs filed (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00723.html). I didn't see if this was captured anywhere, but I wanted to review this list and come up with some ideas on how to approach fleshing out the remaining pages.

Viking_ice updated the team on some his great work creating the Dracut and Dracut/Debugging wiki pages.

Viking_ice indicated there are several pages in Category:Debugging that could use some additional cleanup, and would like to update several pages as time permits.

Jlaska asked the group for suggestions on how best to track creating the Debugging pages noted by Beland. Jlaska how the team felt about tracking these efforts in the fedora-qa track instance. Oddly enough, there weren't any criticisms with this approach. Viking_ice offered to review the tickets and make updates as needed.

Viking_ice noted he wasn't receiving any emails when new tickets were filed. Jlaska would look into the trac admin permissions.

Open discussion

Update on TCMS?

f13 asked for an update on the TCMS plans?

jlaska indicated there were is some internal movement on developing nitrate, but no updated schedule for releasing code. Jlaska also pointed out that User:Mchua has offered assistance to configure a private mediawiki+semantic instance to help QA manage results through the Fedora 12 schedule.

Link to existing goals?

Rjune asked for a link to the existing goals document. Jlaska directed to QA/Goals.

Fedora Test Day Survey

Jlaska finally gathered F11 test day survey feedback and started posting recommendations for review. Please see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00009.html

Use VOIP for future meetings?

dpravec asked whether we should use a VOIP solution (like mumble) for audio meetings.

Viking_ice and f13 indicated it is difficult to keep notes and sometimes exclusive to host VOIP meetings instead of IRC meetings.

Jlaska noted that VOIP makes a lot of sense for different types of meetings like the Fedora Activity Days.

f13 reminded the group about the fedora VOIP service - http://talk.fedoraproject.org

Upcoming QA events

Action items

  • [jlaska] - update QA/Goals wiki document
  • [jlaska] - update fedora-qa privs so that viking_ice is on the default bcc
  • [jlaska] - file a bunch of tickets to track wiki RFC's (requests for content) for debugging pages ... email list seeking volunteers after

IRC Transcript

jlaska | #startmeeting Jul 08 12:00
fedbot | Meeting started Wed Jul 8 16:00:50 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. Jul 08 12:00
fedbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. Jul 08 12:00
zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. Jul 08 12:00
zodbot | Meeting started Wed Jul 8 16:00:50 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. Jul 08 12:00
jlaska | #meetingtopic Fedora QA meeting Jul 08 12:01
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 08 12:01
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 08 12:01
jlaska | #topic Gathering Jul 08 12:01
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Gathering (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 08 12:01
jlaska | Hey folks, it's QA meeting time. Jul 08 12:01
jlaska | I believe we'll be without adamw today ... and f13 said he may be delayed a bit Jul 08 12:01
jlaska | dpravec: welcome! Jul 08 12:02
dpravec | hello :) Jul 08 12:02
jlaska | just waiting a few more minutes for any other folks to join Jul 08 12:02
jlaska | Proposed meeting agenda - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00142.html Jul 08 12:03
jlaska | Notes will land at - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090708 Jul 08 12:03
Oxf13 | Jesse here on my phone Jul 08 12:04
jlaska | Oxf13: Hey there! ... what client you using? Jul 08 12:04
jlaska | do we have a wwoods? Jul 08 12:04
Oxf13 | some free pos Jul 08 12:05
jds2001 | .leave #fedora-meeting Jul 08 12:05
Oxf13 | I'll likely bounce in out as edge flakes out Jul 08 12:05
jds2001 | .part #fedora-meeting Jul 08 12:05
jds2001 | zodbot will be back :) Jul 08 12:05
* | jlaska wonders if beland is around Jul 08 12:06
* | Viking-Ice alive.. Jul 08 12:07
jlaska | Viking-Ice: sweet, welcome! Jul 08 12:07
kparal | hi, i'm here too. i'm new intern in fedora-qa in Brno. Jul 08 12:08
jlaska | okay, let's get things moving and we can rearrange the agenda as needed until wwoods arrives Jul 08 12:08
jlaska | kparal: Hi there, thanks for joining! Jul 08 12:08
--- | mchua_ is now known as mchua_rsi_away Jul 08 12:08
* | wwoods appears Jul 08 12:08
jlaska | okay, with wwoods I think we have everyone Jul 08 12:09
jlaska | #topic Previous meeting follow-up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090708#Previous_meeting_follow-up Jul 08 12:10
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Previous meeting follow-up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090708#Previous_meeting_follow-up (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 08 12:10
jlaska | First up, the sad face for me Jul 08 12:10
Oxf13 | crap. we took too long to gather. I have to head to the coffee shop. back in 30 min or so Jul 08 12:10
jlaska | Oxf13: okay, apologies for the start-up delay :( Jul 08 12:10
jlaska | * [jlaska] - update QA/Goals wiki document Jul 08 12:10
jlaska | no updates on this front for me ... it's still something I'm interested in drafting. Jul 08 12:11
jlaska | So folks are probably getting tired of seeing this, but I'd like to keep it for next week Jul 08 12:11
jlaska | for kparal and dpravec, who might not have seen my dragging feet on this topic ... Jul 08 12:12
jlaska | the background is we are interested in updating our QA/Goals wiki page to be more relevant and actionable Jul 08 12:12
jlaska | the current page is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Goals Jul 08 12:12
jlaska | I've taken an action item to draft some ideas to this page and reach out for review on fedora-test-list Jul 08 12:12
jlaska | Unfortunately, I don't have any updates [again] this week Jul 08 12:13
rjune | Have you sent that to the test list? or did I miss it? Jul 08 12:13
jlaska | rjune: the original Goals wiki was drafted by adamw and posted for review back in March (or April) I think Jul 08 12:13
jlaska | adamw and I have been discussing several different approaches to revamping this page, I just need to get those ideas on 'paper' Jul 08 12:14
rjune | ok, so it was before I got back into fedora Jul 08 12:14
jlaska | possibly Jul 08 12:14
rjune | that's been the last month or so. Jul 08 12:15
jlaska | okay, unless any additional thoughts about last week ... let's dive into the agenda ... Jul 08 12:16
jlaska | #topic Fit n Finish Display Configuration Test Day Recap Jul 08 12:16
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Fit n Finish Display Configuration Test Day Recap (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 08 12:16
jlaska | mclasen: are you around? Jul 08 12:16
mclasen | I am Jul 08 12:16
jlaska | sweet! Jul 08 12:17
jlaska | if you have a moment, was hoping you might give a brief recap of the Display config test day Jul 08 12:17
jlaska | sort of a what worked, what didn't ... what wouldw you improve on for future test days? Jul 08 12:17
mclasen | I don't have too much to say about it... Jul 08 12:17
* | jlaska gathers some links Jul 08 12:17
mclasen | there was a bit of participation in the irc channel throughout the day Jul 08 12:17
mclasen | not too much though Jul 08 12:17
jlaska | Wiki page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-07-07_Fit_and_Finish:Display_Configuration Jul 08 12:18
mclasen | mostly it was me and to some extent adam testing stuff and filing bugs Jul 08 12:18
mclasen | and working on some fixes Jul 08 12:18
jlaska | adam == ajax? Jul 08 12:18
mclasen | yeah Jul 08 12:18
jlaska | from the looks of the wiki you've nailed quite a bit of fit'n'finish issues Jul 08 12:19
mclasen | we probably did not do enough advertisement for wider participation Jul 08 12:19
jlaska | I would have loved to see more non-desktop devel names besides those issues Jul 08 12:19
Viking-Ice | mclasen: Noticed that you never included what to include on the report... Jul 08 12:19
mclasen | but rawhide is also still pretty raw at this point Jul 08 12:19
Viking-Ice | I think it should be set as a mandatory issue for test days.. Jul 08 12:20
mclasen | Viking-Ice: there is no clear recipe here Jul 08 12:20
jlaska | Viking-Ice: mandatory might be a bit strong, but I agree it would be tremendously helpful for contributors Jul 08 12:20
mclasen | one thing I noticed halfway through the test day Jul 08 12:20
Viking-Ice | is that field lacking from the Test day template Jul 08 12:20
mclasen | is that we collected a ton of 'issues' Jul 08 12:20
mclasen | but no positives Jul 08 12:20
jlaska | mclasen: from a test perspective ... collecting the issues is a positive :) Jul 08 12:21
jlaska | were you hoping for more fixing of the problems yesterday as well? Jul 08 12:21
mclasen | with almost all of the desktop team unavailable, no Jul 08 12:21
Viking-Ice | mclasen: looking at the reporting bugs was this just cosmetic comments that were wanted for the test day ? Jul 08 12:22
mclasen | not sure I understand the question Jul 08 12:22
jlaska | mclasen: I was pretty jazzed about the test cases created ... I think we can solicit more testing throughout the week here if there are areas you think weren't touched on enough by your team Jul 08 12:23
mclasen | one problem I noticed with the test day template Jul 08 12:23
mclasen | or rather its naming Jul 08 12:23
Viking-Ice | mclasen: like the font in the users-witch applet is bolder and out of contest with the rest of the Gnome's top panel etc.. Jul 08 12:23
mclasen | is that I can't prepare the test day page before I know the schedule Jul 08 12:23
mclasen | since the date is part of the name... Jul 08 12:24
Viking-Ice | instead of my app crashed Jul 08 12:24
Viking-Ice | reports Jul 08 12:24
jlaska | mclasen: yeah ... I don't think it's a hard and fast rule about having the date in the subject Jul 08 12:25
jlaska | perhaps we can loosen that restriction in the SOP Jul 08 12:25
mclasen | Viking-Ice: what I was hoping for is reports like: "I was trying to do give a presentation, so I followed these obvious steps...then this and that unexpected problem occurred" Jul 08 12:25
mclasen | a crash is an obvious bug to file, not really something you need a test day for... Jul 08 12:25
mclasen | so, I think we are going to try another fit and finish test day in 2 weeks the earliest Jul 08 12:26
jlaska | Viking-Ice: I've got a bit on the agenda about the debugging pages, perhaps that's a good point to review your thoughts on the fit'n'finish bug reports Jul 08 12:26
mclasen | I haven't figured out the next topic yet... Jul 08 12:27
jlaska | mclasen: that's a good spacing between them ... having the same group do them *every* week is tough to manage Jul 08 12:27
jlaska | mclasen: just a heads up, we do have a NetworkManager event scheduled for August for the main test day track Jul 08 12:27
jlaska | perhaps that woudl be good to couple with a fit'n'finish event nearby? Jul 08 12:27
* | jlaska looks at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_12_test_days Jul 08 12:27
jlaska | dpravec: I know you've expressed an interest in desktop testing ... these fit'n'finish test days would be a great way to get a feel for the landscape Jul 08 12:28
jlaska | okay, mclasen to summarize ... Jul 08 12:28
mclasen | could be Jul 08 12:28
dpravec | yes, i will sure join Jul 08 12:28
jlaska | * Loosen the date restriction on the test day wiki name Jul 08 12:29
jlaska | * need more advertising for fit'n'finish days Jul 08 12:29
* | jlaska guilty of digging out from email most of yesterday :( Jul 08 12:29
jlaska | mclasen: are there any areas from yesterdays test day that could use more attention from testers throughout the week, who might have had a conflict? Jul 08 12:30
mclasen | I went through all the use cases we had outlined yesterday Jul 08 12:30
mclasen | but doing the same with other hardware might of course yield different results... Jul 08 12:31
jlaska | Viking-Ice raises a good point about perhaps lining up some guidelines for filing bugs on test days ... I don't know if we can make that a requirement, but perhaps something to visit Jul 08 12:31
jlaska | mclasen: okay Jul 08 12:31
mclasen | jlaska: one thing that may be useful wrt to bug filing Jul 08 12:31
mclasen | is to mention the test case in the bug Jul 08 12:31
mclasen | as I said earlier "I was trying to do ..." <- could basically be a reference to a testcase Jul 08 12:32
jlaska | right on Jul 08 12:32
jlaska | yeah, several of us would do that frequently while testing the installation matrix Jul 08 12:33
dpravec | google is releasing neatx (python based nx server) -- which might be interesting for remote desktop problem solving/testing... http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/07/releasing-neatx-open-source-nx-servier.html Jul 08 12:33
jlaska | I don't know if the installer guys found it helpful, but I know that several weeks later, when I needed to retest the bug ... it was good to know what the _heck_ I was trying to test Jul 08 12:33
jlaska | dpravec: sounds like you might be much closer to neatx, I'm not very familiar with how that could be used. Definitely open to the idea if that helps solve problems Jul 08 12:35
jlaska | anyone else know much about that? Jul 08 12:35
dpravec | neatx is new, there is freenx nx server already in fedora, but its 'hacky' :) Jul 08 12:35
dpravec | it is 'vnc on steroids' -- much faster, useable remote desktop Jul 08 12:36
dpravec | (but the nx technology is based on fork of older xorg, which is problem) Jul 08 12:36
jlaska | interesting, perhaps a howto/blog is in order to to introduce the topic and how it can help testers? Jul 08 12:37
jlaska | hrmm, yeah I suspect that would be problematic Jul 08 12:37
dpravec | debian guys refused to package it... Jul 08 12:37
dpravec | thanks to this Jul 08 12:37
dpravec | (possible security problems) Jul 08 12:37
dpravec | which are hard to fix Jul 08 12:37
jlaska | okay, well we can come back to this outside the meeting Jul 08 12:38
dpravec | ok.. Jul 08 12:38
jlaska | sounds like there might be something there, but potential packaging issues lurk Jul 08 12:38
jlaska | mclasen: any other thoughts/concerns around yesterdays test day, or should we let you go for now? Jul 08 12:38
dpravec | it is already in fedora... Jul 08 12:38
jlaska | dpravec: oh my mistake Jul 08 12:39
--- | cweyl is now known as cweyl|work Jul 08 12:39
mclasen | jlaska: no immediate thoughts; I'll try to send a summary to the list later, and I'll keep f-test-list in the loop for the next test days... Jul 08 12:39
dpravec | i might write some wiki page about it Jul 08 12:39
jlaska | thank you Jul 08 12:39
jlaska | dpravec: that's a great start! Jul 08 12:40
jlaska | okay ... next up ... Jul 08 12:40
jlaska | #topic AutoQA - update from wwoods Jul 08 12:40
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: AutoQA - update from wwoods (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 08 12:40
jlaska | wwoods: you've got the floor Jul 08 12:40
wwoods | okay! So there's the test plan: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan Jul 08 12:40
wwoods | there's 4 cases remaining to write Jul 08 12:40
* | jlaska still in love with the plan Jul 08 12:41
wwoods | https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&summary=~Create+test+case&milestone=israwhidebroken.com&order=priority Jul 08 12:41
wwoods | the first two - Core package {existence,closure} - require the Critical Path package list/depsolving tool Jul 08 12:41
* | mclasen thinks that any rawhide vetting plan needs to be measured against the latest prelink disaster... Jul 08 12:42
wwoods | last week skvidal wrote a tool to depsolve out a list of packages/groups: http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/resolve_out_deps.py Jul 08 12:42
wwoods | mclasen: no Jul 08 12:42
wwoods | yes, there should be a test plan that checks things like that Jul 08 12:42
wwoods | but no, this is not that test plan Jul 08 12:42
* | jlaska makes a mental note - prelink disaster Jul 08 12:42
wwoods | writing (and automating) this test plan will show us a clear path to writing (and automating) a test plan that would cover the prelink disaster Jul 08 12:43
wwoods | walk before we run, etc. Jul 08 12:43
f13 | Hey I'm back Jul 08 12:44
* | jlaska tips hat to f13 Jul 08 12:44
wwoods | getting back to *this* plan - I created two groups in f12 comps (critical-path-base and critical-path-gnome) Jul 08 12:44
wwoods | combining those two groups and @core should cover every use case listed in the critical path proposal: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Critical_Path_Packages_Proposal Jul 08 12:45
wwoods | (they don't seem to have appeared in rawhide comps yet, but they're checked into CVS, so it's only a matter of time) Jul 08 12:45
* | jlaska has 1 stone and looking for 2 birds Jul 08 12:45
wwoods | anyway, working with the assumption that we'll use those three package groups and a soon-to-be-completed tool to depsolve / check the packages required by those groups Jul 08 12:46
wwoods | I'm writing the Core package {existence,closure} test cases today Jul 08 12:46
wwoods | and RSN I'll write up the final two basic functional tests - network and yum Jul 08 12:47
Viking-Ice | for the record I think we should create critical-path do all the *DE's or none.. Jul 08 12:47
Viking-Ice | and by do I mean to.. Jul 08 12:47
wwoods | Viking-Ice: that's great. Feel free to create a critical-path-*DE group in comps that fills the use cases described in the proposal Jul 08 12:47
wwoods | with packages from your DE Jul 08 12:47
wwoods | the stuff in @core and @critical-path-base should apply to all DEs Jul 08 12:47
jlaska | that's actually a really cool way to extend this Jul 08 12:48
jlaska | wwoods: I believe there is a link already for how to recommend + review comps changes right? Jul 08 12:48
wwoods | but given that a) the critical path proposal requires a login manager, and b) gdm is the default login manager Jul 08 12:48
wwoods | I created a package group that includes gdm and its deps Jul 08 12:48
wwoods | setting up a group for DEs that don't use GDM is an exercise for the relevant SIGs Jul 08 12:48
f13 | so is testing those paths Jul 08 12:49
jlaska | right on Jul 08 12:49
wwoods | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/CompsXml is general info about editing comps Jul 08 12:49
f13 | QA/releng signing up to do "the" critical path is a big big task on its own. Jul 08 12:49
jlaska | but if I understand correctly, the current proposed solution leaves the door open to contributor assistance in those areas Jul 08 12:49
wwoods | for the record - current expansion of the current Critical Path definitions are here: http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/files/critical-path/deplist.txt Jul 08 12:49
wwoods | it works out to 500 packages Jul 08 12:50
wwoods | or roughly... 5% of the distro? Jul 08 12:50
wwoods | which sounds about right Jul 08 12:50
* | mclasen wonders how such 'technical' comps groups will interfere with comps groups visibility in the ui Jul 08 12:50
f13 | 500 of 7000 Jul 08 12:50
wwoods | f13: binary packages Jul 08 12:50
wwoods | not source. Jul 08 12:50
wwoods | mclasen: they're set as non-visible Jul 08 12:50
f13 | mclasen: we can mark them as not visible in comps Jul 08 12:50
f13 | or did mark them. Jul 08 12:50
mclasen | oh, didn't know that Jul 08 12:50
wwoods | <uservisible>false</uservisible> Jul 08 12:51
wwoods | also <default>false</default> Jul 08 12:51
jlaska | without that, it would make for an unpleasant group screen in the installer Jul 08 12:51
wwoods | so they don't get installed Jul 08 12:51
jlaska | a handy link for those interested in learning more about contributing to comps - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/CompsXml Jul 08 12:51
wwoods | see http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/comps-f12.xml.in?view=markup Jul 08 12:51
wwoods | (search for critical-path) Jul 08 12:52
jlaska | wwoods: what's on the plan for this week, are there areas you'd like review or engagement by f-test-list ? Jul 08 12:52
wwoods | plan for this week: finish writing tests, ask for review from f-t-l Jul 08 12:53
wwoods | and probably send out an informational message about the critical path deplist to f-d-l Jul 08 12:53
wwoods | hopefully I'll also have time to start trying to automate one of the simpler test cases in autotest Jul 08 12:54
jlaska | sweet! Jul 08 12:54
jlaska | speaking of autotest, f13 and I spoke earlier about some next steps identified by mmcgrath for hosting in infrastructure Jul 08 12:54
wwoods | so, fingers crossed, next week we may have at least some screenshots of green/red boxes Jul 08 12:54
jlaska | I've added some action items to the end of https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/9 Jul 08 12:54
wwoods | everyone loves green boxes, right? Jul 08 12:54
jlaska | the red boxes don't I think Jul 08 12:55
jlaska | be we don't like them :) Jul 08 12:55
jds2001 | .wub 34 Jul 08 12:55
wwoods | wub! Jul 08 12:55
* | wwoods doesn't know what's going on there Jul 08 12:56
wwoods | anyway, that's the AutoQA update Jul 08 12:56
jlaska | wwoods: sweet, sounds like good measured progress on the test case front Jul 08 12:56
jlaska | I know how tough those are to slog (word?) through, but the plan + cases are looking really solid Jul 08 12:56
jlaska | okay, unless any other questions, changing topics shortly ... Jul 08 12:57
jlaska | #topic Debugging pages ... what's next? Jul 08 12:57
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Debugging pages ... what's next? (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 08 12:57
jlaska | I don't know if beland is around, but he provided some data on f-test-list recently on some components to target as candidates for future Debugging pages Jul 08 12:58
jlaska | link - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00723.html Jul 08 12:58
jlaska | Viking-Ice: I figured this would be near and dear to you since much of this spawned from your proposal Jul 08 12:58
jlaska | I didn't see notes for a BugZapper meeting this week, so I wanted to briefly discuss it here Jul 08 12:59
Viking-Ice | Well yes added Dracut has been added to the category ( https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dracut/Debugging ) and btw I would like people to refrane from using the <code> and {{{1}}} in the wiki all this does is adding some gray smug that's not visible in all screens rather just bold it.. Jul 08 13:00
jlaska | Viking-Ice: yeah I loved the Dracut page you drafted and posted for review on the list, really nice work there Jul 08 13:00
jlaska | it would be nice, if we knew now what all of our test day topics would be ... we could target Debugging guides for each topic Jul 08 13:01
Viking-Ice | mclasen: Example for the test day's on how to report the "All bug report" Jul 08 13:01
jlaska | unfortunately we don't have that yet Jul 08 13:01
Viking-Ice | on the dracut's debugging page. . Jul 08 13:01
jlaska | Viking-Ice: did you consult with the dracut team when drafting that page, or is this what you discovered while testing? Jul 08 13:02
Viking-Ice | I talked to Harald on irc.. Jul 08 13:02
Viking-Ice | mainly Jul 08 13:02
jlaska | nice! Jul 08 13:02
jlaska | I think you just demonstrated how QA can add value here ... in drafting and proposing these pages for review Jul 08 13:03
jlaska | I know the maintainers are very busy making this stuff work ... and often it's hard to juggle all the wiki docs needed Jul 08 13:03
--- | stickster_afk is now known as stickster Jul 08 13:04
jlaska | Viking-Ice: do you have any suggestions on how best to go about building pages for the remaining components beland identified? Jul 08 13:04
Viking-Ice | Wall all the the info I needed from harald ( and the only thing he provided me with ) was what they wanted on the report.. Jul 08 13:04
Viking-Ice | In similar fashion to the Dracut's one Jul 08 13:05
jlaska | Viking-Ice: do you think it's worth filing fedora-qa tickets for these items, and asking for volunteers? Jul 08 13:05
* | jlaska would like to ... but worry it might be *too* much Jul 08 13:05
Viking-Ice | ? Jul 08 13:06
dpravec | jlaska: imho fill them, but not every day... Jul 08 13:06
dpravec | i mean, do not repeat... Jul 08 13:07
Viking-Ice | From what looks to be here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Debugging I need to (re)write some of this stuff since i want more ( debugging ) info provided Jul 08 13:07
jlaska | Viking-Ice: are you comfortable using tickets to trac this stuff? Jul 08 13:08
jlaska | or do folks consider it too much tracking? Jul 08 13:08
Viking-Ice | does and change matter talking about the trac system I dont get mails when ticket get filed I think.. Jul 08 13:09
Viking-Ice | and by and I mean not Jul 08 13:09
jlaska | Viking-Ice: I belive you need to set that up in the admin page, I can look at that for you Jul 08 13:09
f13 | hrm, I thought the site default was to email everybody attached to the ticket when a ticket is updated Jul 08 13:10
f13 | but you have to be on the cc or filed it or assigned to it Jul 08 13:10
jlaska | right Jul 08 13:10
jlaska | and I don't think we have default owners for the current wiki component, I'd need to dbl check Jul 08 13:10
Viking-Ice | Yes that was an interesting process how infra handled that I requested the trac system for QA you pushed after it and wwoods got notified and made admin.. Jul 08 13:10
Viking-Ice | that the trac was ready Jul 08 13:11
jlaska | #action jlaska - update fedora-qa privs so that viking_ice is on the default bcc Jul 08 13:11
jlaska | okay, unless folks shout ... I think I'll file some tickets to record what debugging pages we should tackle based on the data beland provided Jul 08 13:11
jlaska | and then beg for volunteers on the list Jul 08 13:12
Viking-Ice | ok Jul 08 13:12
jlaska | #action - jlaska files a bunch of wiki requests for content for debugging pages ... email list after Jul 08 13:12
Viking-Ice | I'll review fill in if needed and add some info for components Jul 08 13:12
jlaska | Viking-Ice: that'd be great, thank you Jul 08 13:12
jlaska | #topic Open discussion - <your topic here> Jul 08 13:13
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Open discussion - <your topic here> (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 08 13:13
jlaska | okay, open floor time Jul 08 13:13
jlaska | any topics/concerns or issues that need debate? Jul 08 13:13
jlaska | or favorite jokes? Jul 08 13:13
f13 | TCMS? Jul 08 13:14
Viking-Ice | Three men walk into a bar and a working girl shows up.. Jul 08 13:14
dpravec | :) Jul 08 13:14
jlaska | Viking-Ice: okay, let's keep it clean! :D Jul 08 13:14
rjune | oh, I know how this one ends, I have the DVD Jul 08 13:14
dpravec | i thought its all... Jul 08 13:15
dpravec | :) Jul 08 13:15
rjune | jlaska: can you post the pgae you were working on with adam? I'm curious to see it. Jul 08 13:15
jlaska | that's the old page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Goals Jul 08 13:15
jlaska | f13: re TCMS ... there isn't any news on the nitrate front ... they are still working on their own internal milestones Jul 08 13:15
rjune | is there a new page? (I was actually working and not paying attention in here) Jul 08 13:15
jlaska | rjune: I have a draft on my desktop that's not posted yet Jul 08 13:16
jlaska | I'll be sure to send something to the list for review once I've got it posted Jul 08 13:16
rjune | thanks. Jul 08 13:16
jlaska | f13: in recent news, mchua has offered help to configure a mediawiki+semantic instance for us to use during F12 Jul 08 13:16
jlaska | f13: the infrastructure team kindly provided a play space and installed the packages needed Jul 08 13:16
jlaska | mchua and I have been playing phone tag a bit so haven't been able to sync up this past week. Jul 08 13:17
jlaska | mchua setup the laptop.org semantic extension to improve test results query+collection for them Jul 08 13:17
f13 | ok Jul 08 13:17
f13 | hurray for interns! Jul 08 13:17
jlaska | so while not a full fledged TCMS, I think of this as a short-term solution to get us over the hump Jul 08 13:17
jlaska | definitely, I don't think this falls under her normal responsibilities, so I definitely appreciate the time she can loan! Jul 08 13:18
jlaska | For Fedora 13, we should have some automation in place, I think we can then meet and discuss as a group how best to proceed with a TCMS Jul 08 13:18
jlaska | another quickie ... Jul 08 13:19
jlaska | since folks might have been distracted with FUDCon or holidays ... Jul 08 13:20
jlaska | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00009.html Jul 08 13:20
jlaska | I posted feedback from the Test Day survey ... and started to outline some recommendations Jul 08 13:20
jlaska | I welcome any thoughts to the list Jul 08 13:21
jlaska | If no other topics ... we'll close things out in 4 minutes ... Jul 08 13:21
jlaska | T - 15 seconds Jul 08 13:24
jlaska | Okay gang, thanks for your time and input Jul 08 13:25
dpravec | maybe one small idea... we could use mumble to do audio meetings. Jul 08 13:25
jlaska | dpravec: sorry Jul 08 13:25
jlaska | I'm not familiar Jul 08 13:25
dpravec | its similar to irc, but its voip app. Jul 08 13:25
kparal | it's just similar to ventrilo, teamspeak or skype rooms (?) Jul 08 13:26
jlaska | dpravec: this topic came up a few weeks back on whether we should use the Fedora talk VOIP server to host meetings Jul 08 13:26
dpravec | created originally for gamers, similar to teamspeak, but free software Jul 08 13:26
Viking-Ice | interesting who's going to note down what was talked about ? Jul 08 13:26
jlaska | Viking-Ice: I'll send notes to the list for review Jul 08 13:26
dpravec | i can write small wiki page about it Jul 08 13:26
Viking-Ice | then again we could provide audio file.. Jul 08 13:26
rjune | Viking-Ice: fedbot records it Jul 08 13:26
rjune | oh, nmind. I'm a tard Jul 08 13:27
jlaska | there were some concerns around accessibility when this topic last came up Jul 08 13:27
* | jlaska finds notes Jul 08 13:27
dpravec | yes imho mac version is missing :) Jul 08 13:27
Viking-Ice | jlaska: was referring to this mumble idea.. Jul 08 13:27
dpravec | http://mumble.sf.net Jul 08 13:27
f13 | not just that, but voice is much harder for people to participate in Jul 08 13:27
jlaska | Viking-Ice: yeah sorry :( Jul 08 13:27
dpravec | we can combine it to get best Jul 08 13:28
f13 | dpravec: Fedora already has a VOIP solution, Fedora Talk Jul 08 13:28
jlaska | dpravec: http://talk.fedoraproject.org/ Jul 08 13:28
f13 | also, voice meetings lose a /lot/ of archival uses, meeting logs and all that Jul 08 13:28
jlaska | I'm a fan of using the phone at times, but I know IRC is really popular in the fedora space and f13 mentions valid points Jul 08 13:29
Viking-Ice | agreed Jul 08 13:29
jlaska | dpravec: we did have consensus around using fedora talk for FAD's Jul 08 13:29
dpravec | ok Jul 08 13:29
dpravec | np Jul 08 13:29
jlaska | which was a forum/format where that worked really well in Jul 08 13:29
jlaska | so a good idea, I think just trying to figure out where best to apply it Jul 08 13:29
dpravec | its hard to grep audio file :)) Jul 08 13:29
jlaska | hehe Jul 08 13:29
jlaska | okay gang ... going to wrap things up Jul 08 13:30
jlaska | thanks for your time and input!! Jul 08 13:30
jlaska | #endmeeting Jul 08 13:30
--- | fedbot has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule Jul 08 13:30
fedbot | Meeting ended Wed Jul 8 17:30:17 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Jul 08 13:30
fedbot | Minutes: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-07-08-16.00.html Jul 08 13:30
fedbot | Minutes (text): http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-07-08-16.00.txt Jul 08 13:30
fedbot | Log: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-07-08-16.00.log.html Jul 08 13:30

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